concrete help

[joelowrider]

Okay bear with me I am not a concrete person. I am building a garage and I don't know squat lol.

So I have the footers figured out I am lost on the slab.

So my plan was footer then 2 courses of 8x16 block then a course of 8in L block so I could have the L turned inside pour the floor and bring the concrete to the top of the block to screed. up to that point in my head it works.but I want another layer of block high to build the wall off the floor.

I hope this makes sense.

When it all boils down to it I want a level floor not sloped and I want 1 block higher than the floor to start the walls and I really don't know how to do it and screed the concrete.

 

[ConCretin]

In most situations you would just run as many courses of block as you want and place the slab against the inside face. You seem to want to use the top of a course of block to screed from. Is this because you are placing the floor yourself and feel you need a solid surface to guide the straight-edge? If that's the case, why can't you simply add another course of block after you place the slab? More info would help us understand your question.

Btw, most professional finishers won't need anything physical to screed from that so if you are using one, don't worry about it at all. If you have a minute, you might want to give my Guide to Floor Slabs a read for some additional thoughts.

 

[joelowrider]

In most situations you would just run as many courses of block as you want and place the slab against the inside face. You seem to want to use the top of a course of block to screed from. Is this because you are placing the floor yourself and feel you need a solid surface to guide the straight-edge? If that's the case, why can't you simply add another course of block after you place the slab? More info would help us understand your question.

Btw, most professional finishers won't need anything physical to screed from that so if you are using one, don't worry about it at all. If you have a minute, you might want to give my Guide to Floor Slabs a read for some additional thoughts.

I will read it right now but you have the idea I am going to do the floor myself and I feel like I need something to screed off of that is solid.
I didn't know if I could add another block on top. Needless to say I am off to read your guide thanks.

 

[BillK]

Joe,
I wont answer your exact question but I will say that you are insane trying to finish the slab by yourself. I did a 14 x 50 driveway years ago and after it was done I swore I would never do it again. Way too much work and you will never be happy with the finish. When I built my 24 x24 detached garage the only thing I did not do myself was the slab and whatever I paid the concrete guys was the best money I have ever spent

 

[The Cobbler]

^^^ X 2
if nothing else, , hire out the concrete

 

[spudley]

Aw come on guys this is GJ. Where's the can do attitude???

I had four friends, three in their mid sixties (including me) place a 24 x 40 slab. (I did hire a young guy to finish).

Funny thing is those fellas got pretty scarce after that job. Hmmm wonder why?

OP, read and listen to LLWillysfan. He's the master.

And just kidding on the DIY. It's hard work that gets away quick if you aren't experienced.

 

[couch67]

yep I'll try anything once (diy that is), but not a slab. That's a one shot deal and for the pros.

 

[SALIV8]

I leave concrete to the pros. Not only is it very hard labor intensive work, it takes some serious professional experience to finish everything the right way.

 

[mike93lx]

I agree with the previous posters. This isn't like drywall where you can easily rip it out and start over or just add another layer of mud. If you mess it up, you are stuck with it or a really expensive and disruptive tear out.

If you priced out having a pro do it and the job is expensive, there is a reason

 

[Ben W]

I've said this before on similar topics ... are the 'pros' smarter? stronger? only ones able to buy specialty tools? only ones able to gather a group of workers? The answer is ....... maybe, but not yes. What do they have? Experience. Experience is something that all of us regular guys (and girls) can obtain. For some, that experience was overwhelming and not something ever to do again.

I'd say do your research, know what it takes to build something, and then make the decision about whether it's something you want to take on.

So, either hire it out and watch from a lawn chair (gaining experience).
Hire a pro to assist with you providing the manpower.
Or do it yourself - recognizing that you may not get a professional product.

If you do it yourself, you may want to consider breaking it into quadrants so the individual pours are more manageable.

 

[joelowrider]

I have poured and help finish our driveway and our massive patio.

I have also redone the concrete in my parents house after a water leak I am just not sure how to screed with no surface to screed from.

That being said I would love to pay someone to do this but finding concrete guys around here is next to impossible. We have a lot of concrete work done at my work and most the crews come from out of state at double the price because of lack of concrete guys here.

Plus I am cheap.

 

[spudley]

Hire a pro to assist with you providing the manpower.

That's great advice but also not so easy with concrete. I was fortunate to find a good guy willing to work with a group of "amateurs" he didn't know. But in my case it worked well as the guy was a real pro.

Little side story... my best friend was a concrete guy and would have done the job had he not been taken away too early with lung cancer. So I had many of his tools, including his finishing machine for my use.

The guy I hired had and used his own equipment but toward the end of the finish, and without request from me, he fired up my buddies machine and gave a pass over the floor out of respect to a guy he never met.

That's when I knew I hired the right guy.

 

[flan]

I let my slab float, would never consider doing a “L”. Pour the slab right into the wall. Bull float then mag float the edges by hand once it sets up a bit. Also keep a block above the slab so the walls aren’t constantly sitting in water.

 

[joelowrider]

I let my slab float, would never consider doing a “L”. Pour the slab right into the wall. Bull float then mag float the edges by hand once it sets up a bit. Also keep a block above the slab so the walls aren’t constantly sitting in water.

So how do you screed it level with out a edge to screed off of?

 

[spudley]

So how do you screed it level with out a edge to screed off of?

You snap a line on the block wall or just go by the mortar joint which hopefully is level. Then "saw" to the line. Some guys will place a temp frame board or pipe 8-10' away from the wall
and use that to screed. Remove the temp board/pipe when the section is floated or wait til the next adjacent section is done and utilize the temp board again. Yes you'll be walking in the wet concrete, which can be leveled by hand or bull float.

Others (pros) just float it by eye but that's where the experience kicks in.

Also helps tremendously if the guy in the truck knows what he's doing.

 

[matt_i]

I was also thinking of setting screed pipes just inside the block walls for screeding, then you don't really have to walk back thru the 'crete and mess it up, should be able to be filled and leveled from standing outside of the wall....depending on the width, etc.

Imo the O.P. is better off letting the slab float instead of setting the edge of it on a "ledge" of the L-shaped block.

 

[spudley]

I was also thinking of setting screed pipes just inside the block walls for screeding, then you don't really have to walk back thru the 'crete and mess it up, should be able to be filled and leveled from standing outside of the wall....depending on the width, etc.

Imo the O.P. is better off letting the slab float instead of setting the edge of it on a "ledge" of the L-shaped block.

Agreed. Too easy to crack otherwise.

 

[napaul]

i agree with others and leave to professionals. concrete is expensive and labor intensive. aside from maybe not getting the finish you visualize in your mind what if **** goes sideways either sets up quicker then anticipated or drags out and your left with a huge mess as an experiment. im all for diy where you can save but im also for know your limitations

 

[firebirdparts]

Normally in a building you don't screed off the outside of the building. You can if you want to. I don't see the harm.

 

[rburke65]

On my 2 buildings we had caulk lines snapped on the walls and the finishers world place concrete up to the line and had trowel out to about 12” by using their eye. This gave them a flat surface to start the screed

 

[ConCretin]

I don't think you've said how big your slab is. It's a different calculation of you are talking 400 sf vs 4000.

Pro's usually wet screed their slabs. Small pads are set to grade using a laser or reference mark. A straightedge is used to level a strip of concrete between the pads. Once another set of pads and a strip are created, the straightedge is turned 90 degrees and is dragged down the center using the two strips as a guide. It obviously takes skill to rod concrete accurately off a wet rail but a very flat floor can be achieved. I wouldn't recommend this system for a first timer.

The next best thing for a novice would be removable screed rails something like these.

http://www.makoproducts.com/mako-products/

Rebar stakes are driven into the ground in rows with a special tool that references grade using strings of a laser. A plastic saddle slides over the bar and holds the top of a pipe or piece of lumber to grade. Once you screed down the rail, you can pull it lengthways out of the saddles that stay in place. A few mag fulls of concrete tossed out into the void and a pass with a bull float re-levels the surface.

 

[ozyborn]

Hire it out. I was lucky in my slab, poured inside my garage footings. My friends were concrete professionals to begin with. I was just muscle on the wheelbarrel and cook on the grill for them.

 

[ard]

I hire guys for slabs....

They usually only charge $50 extra if I help.

 

[Shadowdog500]

There are two things I wont usually touch, concrete and plaster.

Both can be done quickly and to a high standard by a pro and neither cost that much extra to have them do.

 

[Shadowdog500]

So how do you screed it level with out a edge to screed off of?

I had the pros pour the floor in my 30X52 shop that had no edge. They snapped a chalk line around the perimeter and set a laser level at the door. They set the laser receiver on a stick so that it beeped when the bottom of the stick was at the finished floor level.

They screeded the perimeter using the chalk line and screeded the field by leveling small spots here and there to the finished floor level using the beeping stick and a hand trowel then worked the concrete until the entire floor was level with those spots.

It was a truly impressive thing to see. I had the second, third, and fourth generation of the family who owned the concrete plant and construction company doing the install. The second generation owner was about 82 years old at the time and did concrete his entire life and you could tell. He worked the concrete with the crew, and seemed to know everything you could possibly know about concrete.

 

[spudley]

They usually only charge $50 extra if I help.

 

[ford33]

I would hire a reputable person or company to place the slab. It's a one shot deal and if you mess it up there is little that can be done without costing you a lot of money.

After reading LLWillyFan guide, I realized there is much to know and do quickly with no ability to practice beforehand.

 

[firebirdparts]

So you don't screed concrete indoors using any sort of gauge. You either don't screed it at all (it is a liquid) or you can screed it freehand if you want to. Personally, I drive grade stakes in it (I use rebar) so I can have a reference point away from the walls. You can pull them out when you don't need them any more, if you want to. I would be very tempted to leave them.

Maybe find a youtube video of some guys pouring a basement and see what you like about that.

I guess now 50 more people can tell you to hire it out.

 

[Tduby]

If you truly can’t affrond to hire it out go work a corner on the bad part of town to hire a professional and find a good one soon because the good guys are always booked

 

[DTE]

I did not pour my floor but I prepped it and set the grade so all the concrete guy had to do was show up and pour it and finish it. I used a product similar to this around the perimeter and this was his screed line. He used a gas powered screeding machine and it worked out great. You can look at my build and see how I got things ready. All I had was a string and a level. Wgen finished the top 1/2 inch peels off and you can seal it with Sikaflex or some other sealant. https://www.reflectixinc.com/applications/pro/expansion-joint/

 

[Shadowdog500]

So you don't screed concrete indoors using any sort of gauge. You either don't screed it at all (it is a liquid) or you can screed it freehand if you want to. ...

Did you use self leveling concrete for your shop floor?

 

[joelowrider]

Been a ruff few weeks but the block is up and the floor is poured. I ended up finding a guy we use at work for concrete work form Alabama. He was going to stay around for the Holidays so he helped I learned a lot form him. Ended up using a laser for everything worked great.

 

[YukonXL04]

Been a ruff few weeks but the block is up and the floor is poured. I ended up finding a guy we use at work for concrete work form Alabama. He was going to stay around for the Holidays so he helped I learned a lot form him. Ended up using a laser for everything worked great.

Congrats! Concrete is definitely one of those things I hire out. The last thing I want is to mess up my concrete and be stuck with it