Concrete pad wrong, what to do?

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Ok I’ll start with I really have no clue what I’m doing. I didn’t start this project order right at all. I started with pouring pad thinking get it poured and the garage will come quicker. Well, concrete didn’t go as planed along with the fact I didn’t plan this better before getting started.
Bought house without a garage and the back right corner was sunken in holding what. Was a lot of big tree roots that was decaying. I was getting tired of the mosquito breeding ground with being a pain to mow with such uneven ground (plus more than I wanted to mow each week ).
So thinking get this tree stump and roots out, get the pad poured so that’s done. Thinking that gives me couple pluses on my side lol. So I hired a guy to pour a 27’x27’ 6” thick and given me 3 or 4” above the highest part of grade and 1/2” all way around with a down pitch to allow water to roll off. I already had a old slab that was poured in the back yard that I said I wanted to **** up to and use as little bit of concrete before I pulled in the garage. (I’d have 100’ of grass from street to garage so that few ft on concrete would of been nice) That came out to 8k
He saw I was goin to have to my the little metal shed I had and offered to do a shed pad for another 1k. I laughed and said do 500 and sure. Did 12’x11.1’ 4” thick
Well said and done my lowest spot is actually above the shed pad.
The garage pad ended up 26.7’x27.2’ and have a gap between the old pad and my new pad saying after they started he realized he couldnt **** up to old pad due to it wasn’t even to the fence. All he had to do was saw cut few inches, make sq and **** the pads together vs leaving me pad not right size to metal garage I’m planning on building w/ a gap I have to fill or fix somehow.
Well this is a year later. I have been so discussed with this job I have avoided it. Mostly due to no one to talk to about this. No one to ask what to do, what order do I need to take things etc etc. (oh while gap I have found out I have to have a permit. Ignorant to I have to ask permission to do something on property I bought.)
Also I have found I have at least a ft I can move my chain fence back. I just have to clean out the small trees and bushes and vines that are growing behind and on the fence. That would of gave me a whole another ft the pad could of went back giving more yard in front or garage for kid to have space for activities.
So where the garage and shed pad meet they hold a lot of water. Where the garage would have to end up taking in a lot of water I’d assume pretty safely. Since he put shed and garage pad flush together there is no slope to roll water off like we discussed. It actually didn’t get that 1/2” slope around any edge. He just a round edge on and called it good.
More reason I haven’t done anything due to water holding and it being with pads together and the shed pad also being below grade on most of it. Since of this I was thinking of hiring a concrete guy to sq the pad up (it’s it’s kinda a upside L shape)
And need to extend the pad in front to fill in that gap and make it 27’ not 26.7’.
After talking more to metal building places I found if I order a 27x27 they would just sell me a 27x30 and cut it down in house and then ship it. Well I don’t like idea of paying for something, then cutting part off and keeping the materials. So since have to fill in gap I’ll just extend pad to 30’.
To fill in the L I have to cut down and move this tree that’s in my way (plus I don’t want one that close to the garage. It’s a dying tree anyways so for safety lol).
Hire a guy to cut it down. Well he drops the tree on my shed. Thankfully I’m kinda crafty so took some scrape wood and made a couple post to hold it up so can still keep the harelys dry. (Still have to get tree cut down)

So I’ve learned I should of took tree down first without risk of hitting new concrete pad. (Ended up hitting the shed. Witch is better than concrete but if tree was first it wouldn’t of happened. Then I took chain fence out and put privacy fence up with giving me a ft pad then could of went farther back. Then do concrete pad. With better concrete knowledge like. Don’t do shed and garage pad together. Don’t do sloped or rounded edges. To do as they call a drip edge. Where allows the metal frame of the building to sit down some and be exact size of frame to have the metal siding slide overtop where frame rails and concrete met to fully stop water from leaking under. If I put it on now I’m putting a smaller building on then I’m paying for and will have massive water leakage.
Very sorry this is so long but a lot of info. A lot goin on and have no one, no help of any sort.
The pic of the building is i guess what I’m looking to end up with since she’s and garage pad or together. If roof goes all way across it has to help with water not hitting side of garage and rolling off shed roof and going between shed and the garage right?
Added pics of everything

 

[Wayne67vert]

Quite a comedy of errors.
Do you have a firm plan how to proceed?

 

[firebirdparts]

What to do:

Put a nice building up and enjoy it. Fit it to the slab you have.

 

[Viper98912]

I didn't exactly follow that entire thing. But one thing I do see, is that you wanted to re-use that old small broken concrete pad with your new one? Why? It's junk. Just have it torn up and build the building on your nice new concrete pad. If water is pooling somewhere because of the grading, well then change your landscape grading....

 

[metlmunchr]

At the price of concrete plus placement and finishing, anyone who's having this sort of work done should spend $250 or so to purchase a builder's level or a transit and a tripod. Most can get by with the level unless you're doing something like ditching for a sewer line which needs a specific and constant grade, and for that use a transit is really handy and capable of the functions of a level as well.

Resist the temptation to buy a laser. Optical instruments were in use doing accurate layout for a hundred years or more prior to the advent of lasers, and are unaffected by sunlight that can make a laser near useless without a matching target. The typical optical level will be accurate +/- 1/16" at 100 ft.

Time after time I see on here people with problems related to slabs in the wrong place, slabs not level or not at the correct elevation, slab dimensions wrong, slabs out of square, and every other possible screw up that can be made by contractors who can't measure or establish elevations.

Don't be taken in by the big shiny new truck or claims of multiple eons of experience. None of that is any guarantee of competence in layout work. This is a good article on the basic uses of a level or transit. Buy one and learn how to use it, and you'll save yourself potential headaches, arguments, and $thousands in work that has to be scrapped.

https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/site-prep/how-to-use-transits-and-levels_o
Download the PDF for the full article.

 

[PoorUB]

The first question I have. "Was the concrete pad poured with the thickened edge to support a building?" If not, you are probably done with the idea of building on that slab.

 

[txvwnut]

I was just fixing to ask what PoorUP asked. When doing a building the slab needs to be engineered to the building so it can support the various loads the building is going to impart on the slab. Also looking at the existing piece of concrete work I wouldn't have butted the new up against it either. I would've demoed that existing pad and sized the new work the combined size of both.

 

[mcbane]

The first question I have. "Was the concrete pad poured with the thickened edge to support a building?" If not, you are probably done with the idea of building on that slab.

This is a key point. If building wood stick frame it might be practical to saw cut away the edge as needed and then install a perimeter footing. But with a steel building, you likely need a foundation that can resist significant lateral loads and wind uplift loads - any retrofit footing may not be practical.

And one more question: Did the contractor get a vapor barrier under the new slab? If not, you will need a lot of ventilation to prevent condensation in a metal building and that may not be desirable depending on your local climate.

 

[jmdirk]

Well, I'd say you need to figure out what you want and then go from there. You may have completely wasted money on pouring that slab if it won't conform to your local building code requirements.

The building you want will drive the foundation/slab requirements. You'll need to check with your city/county/municipality/etc. regarding zoning bylaws etc to ensure you have proper setbacks, conform with lot coverage requirements, overall height, etc. Some areas even have aesthetic requirements (i.e. look of garage needs to match appearance of house - same similar siding, roofing material etc.)

 

[firebirdparts]

Let me just say, for the record, I read every word of that OP, and I actually deciphered it as I went, too.

My initial response did not address the water pooling because I didn't really get the topography from the OP. All I can say is water runs downhill. It does seem like people resist sending it, but don't. Do what you have to. If you have to destroy something to send the water downhill, then do so. Full send.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Quite a comedy of errors.
Do you have a firm plan how to proceed?

Yes it is I suppose, but a lot of stress on other side of it.
No not really. My plan I’m trying to do. Is add more structure to shed. Move it and cut the tree down my self.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

What to do:

Put a nice building up and enjoy it. Fit it to the slab you have.

They won’t fit to the pad. Especially to the inches. If found a decent company to build metal building to the exact size of the pad that’s what I’d go with and call that part finally done.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

I didn't exactly follow that entire thing. But one thing I do see, is that you wanted to re-use that old small broken concrete pad with your new one? Why? It's junk. Just have it torn up and build the building on your nice new concrete pad. If water is pooling somewhere because of the grading, well then change your landscape grading....

The small old pad was perfect. Wasn’t broke or anything. The concrete guy did that. That’s why I was leaving at the foot of the garage.
It’s not got water on cause of the grading. If I push the soil to the pad I’d say it would hold water due to the grade. At moment it holds cuz the pad.
I know this isn’t a good pic at all of water on it. I will take one next time it rains. (Should be tomorrow). It hold back left where the two pads meet.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

At the price of concrete plus placement and finishing, anyone who's having this sort of work done should spend $250 or so to purchase a builder's level or a transit and a tripod. Most can get by with the level unless you're doing something like ditching for a sewer line which needs a specific and constant grade, and for that use a transit is really handy and capable of the functions of a level as well.

Resist the temptation to buy a laser. Optical instruments were in use doing accurate layout for a hundred years or more prior to the advent of lasers, and are unaffected by sunlight that can make a laser near useless without a matching target. The typical optical level will be accurate +/- 1/16" at 100 ft.

Time after time I see on here people with problems related to slabs in the wrong place, slabs not level or not at the correct elevation, slab dimensions wrong, slabs out of square, and every other possible screw up that can be made by contractors who can't measure or establish elevations.

Don't be taken in by the big shiny new truck or claims of multiple eons of experience. None of that is any guarantee of competence in layout work. This is a good article on the basic uses of a level or transit. Buy one and learn how to use it, and you'll save yourself potential headaches, arguments, and $thousands in work that has to be scrapped.

https://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/site-prep/how-to-use-transits-and-levels_o
Download the PDF for the full article.

Yes I was little sure this concrete guy was goin to be good choice. Had nicest looking trucks, trailers, bob cat and other equipment. Then wasn’t the most. Second from highest. Had great google reviews. (I have since learned that he deletes all bad reviews. I keep posting my review and he keeps taking it down. I have seen a few other bad reviews since and I’ll check the next day and he has deleted it. I never knew they could delete reviews they didn’t like.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

The first question I have. "Was the concrete pad poured with the thickened edge to support a building?" If not, you are probably done with the idea of building on that slab.

No it is a high strength concrete 6” thick with rebar everywhere.
It will be fine with the light weight building putting on it. Heck I’ve seen these garages put on gravel, even grass or someone’s 4” thick driveway concrete.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

I was just fixing to ask what PoorUP asked. When doing a building the slab needs to be engineered to the building so it can support the various loads the building is going to impart on the slab. Also looking at the existing piece of concrete work I wouldn't have butted the new up against it either. I would've demoed that existing pad and sized the new work the combined size of both.

Nothing was goin to be supported at all on the old pad. It was just goin to be a few ft outside the garage before got to the door

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

This is a key point. If building wood stick frame it might be practical to saw cut away the edge as needed and then install a perimeter footing. But with a steel building, you likely need a foundation that can resist significant lateral loads and wind uplift loads - any retrofit footing may not be practical.

And one more question: Did the contractor get a vapor barrier under the new slab? If not, you will need a lot of ventilation to prevent condensation in a metal building and that may not be desirable depending on your local climate.

Thought a concrete sealer would solve that. I got u190 I think it was called.
Water, oil , gas resistant sealer.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Well, I'd say you need to figure out what you want and then go from there. You may have completely wasted money on pouring that slab if it won't conform to your local building code requirements.

The building you want will drive the foundation/slab requirements. You'll need to check with your city/county/municipality/etc. regarding zoning bylaws etc to ensure you have proper setbacks, conform with lot coverage requirements, overall height, etc. Some areas even have aesthetic requirements (i.e. look of garage needs to match appearance of house - same similar siding, roofing material etc.)

I am pretty clear on what I want to end up with. Haven’t went down and started the permits cause not fully sure what way goin but have made a couple emails back and forth with local builders code guys. I gave him a rough idea of what I want to do. Told him already have pad and want to build garage to it. He was happy I was 3 ft off the fence line. I actually could of went with 2ft (witch would of known that ahead of time.). I actually even have another ft past my back fence I will have when I take down that chain fence and add another. Size of garage is fine and 10ft sides is fine. He looked up my address and confirmed I’m good to go I just need to come done and file out some permits and pay a damn fee.
I can make it look anyway I want. I’m leaning on matching the house pretty well.
White and some other color. After it’s built I’ll match the house even better to it for eye appeal of course.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Let me just say, for the record, I read every word of that OP, and I actually deciphered it as I went, too.

My initial response did not address the water pooling because I didn't really get the topography from the OP. All I can say is water runs downhill. It does seem like people resist sending it, but don't. Do what you have to. If you have to destroy something to send the water downhill, then do so. Full send.

I was thinking cutting the shed pad down a little and putting like a channel chain. Like what ppl put in front of the garage door some. Or getting a good v grove cut in it having water collect and roll towards the back and making a lil trench to go from back of pad to the drain right on other side of my fence

 

[PoorUB]

No it is a high strength concrete 6” thick with rebar everywhere.
It will be fine with the light weight building putting on it. Heck I’ve seen these garages put on gravel, even grass or someone’s 4” thick driveway concrete.

I have seen garages set on rail road ties, doesn't make it right.

 

[firebirdparts]

OP, you need to tell us where this building comes from that only comes in 27' by 27'. None of us ever bought a building that size.

 

[PoorUB]

No it is a high strength concrete 6” thick with rebar everywhere.
It will be fine with the light weight building putting on it. Heck I’ve seen these garages put on gravel, even grass or someone’s 4” thick driveway concrete.

I should add, in my city you would not be able to build a garage on that pad. It needs a foundation, or minimally a thickened edge. I don't know the local specs, but something like 12" thick, and rebar has to be in the proper place.

You mention needing a permit. I can not help but wonder if they will investigate the pad construction. In my city you would need an inspection after the forms and rebar was laid, and before any cement was poured.

 

[Viper98912]

The small old pad was perfect. Wasn’t broke or anything. The concrete guy did that. That’s why I was leaving at the foot of the garage.
It’s not got water on cause of the grading. If I push the soil to the pad I’d say it would hold water due to the grade. At moment it holds cuz the pad.
I know this isn’t a good pic at all of water on it. I will take one next time it rains. (Should be tomorrow). It hold back left where the two pads meet.

It stinks that the concrete guy broke it, but there's no going back now (unless you have the ability to sue him for it, which won't be worth your time). So I'd just say break it apart and take it away.

In terms of the holding water, are you saying that the center of the pad is "bowl shaped"? So when it rains, it holds water on top? If so, while it shouldn't be that way, it shouldn't be an issue since when your building is up you really shouldn't have water coming in...?

 

[dougf]

Get someone to fix the water drainage. It does not take much. Like another poster said, water runs down hill. I built a pad on a slope and had to pay someone to move some dirt in the attached picture to not allow the water to run under the pad and wash it out. You'll likely have to do something similar.

Hard to tell in the pic, buts there's just enough of a swale if you wll to move the water coming down hill to around the back of the building towards the camera.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

OP, you need to tell us where this building comes from that only comes in 27' by 27'. None of us ever bought a building that size.

I’ll look for my list I have of a few ppl that said they would. A lot of them would tho. I c an get like whatever width I want but the length is the more difficult size. Ones that said I can get 27x27x10 is selling me a 27x30 and they cut it down to size at their location and ship it and hire builders to build it for them. They also keep all scraps and don’t get sent. ( I was on the if I pay for it I should get it wether u cut it or not lol).
So since I have that gap at the front I’m thinking of extending the pad from 26.7 to 30’. Just since it has round edge it has to be cut sq to get it to adhere to the new concrete with the old concrete with rebar placed and drilled holes of the old new pad. The concrete guy that did the pad and the new guy I’ve talked to, to add little over 3’ to length that since I’m using like carport style enclosed garage that it’s ok I don’t have a footer or permit but that I’ll need it to get the building built.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

It stinks that the concrete guy broke it, but there's no going back now (unless you have the ability to sue him for it, which won't be worth your time). So I'd just say break it apart and take it away.

In terms of the holding water, are you saying that the center of the pad is "bowl shaped"? So when it rains, it holds water on top? If so, while it shouldn't be that way, it shouldn't be an issue since when your building is up you really shouldn't have water coming in...?

Yes imma break it up and move it. He wrecked it and is also in way of taking it to 30’. I like the idea of using the old pad to make a patio by the house. I’ve done it before out in the woods to have a patio.
I also like to recycle and or turning lemons into lemonade

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Here is a couple pics of it after it rained today and after starts to dry showing where holds the most
This is why haven’t just sent putting a building on the pad yet. A lot of water will come in the far back left corner. That and I can’t get a building built 26.7 in length. I don’t want a lot of concrete on outside of the garage. Imma already have a inch each side of garage since it’s 27.2. Was suppose to have a slope at that inch on each side. I guess me saying go ahead and do pad for shed he threw out the slope plan.

It would be awesome to get it built to the exact perimeter of pad. I don’t need that shed pad as I did since my shed got killed by a tree cutter.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Get someone to fix the water drainage. It does not take much. Like another poster said, water runs down hill. I built a pad on a slope and had to pay someone to move some dirt in the attached picture to not allow the water to run under the pad and wash it out. You'll likely have to do something similar.

Hard to tell in the pic, buts there's just enough of a swale if you wll to move the water coming down hill to around the back of the building towards the camera.

At the moment just having the pad I’m lucky and don’t have any problem of water built up anywhere around pad or showing any signs of water pouring under it. Now when I have the garage built and have water shedding off the walls/roof I prolly will. I was thinking of gutters and a French drain to deflect water from goin under.

 

[dougf]

At the moment just having the pad I’m lucky and don’t have any problem of water built up anywhere around pad or showing any signs of water pouring under it. Now when I have the garage built and have water shedding off the walls/roof I prolly will. I was thinking of gutters and a French drain to deflect water from goin under.

I would definitely do gutters and take the water as far away as you can from the slab downhill. Then build up the slab edges with dirt and ensure water doesn't get to it and you'll likely be fine. Don't sweat the mistakes, I have made plenty with my slab and building.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

I would definitely do gutters and take the water as far away as you can from the slab downhill. Then build up the slab edges with dirt and ensure water doesn't get to it and you'll likely be fine. Don't sweat the mistakes, I have made plenty with my slab and building.

Did you do the drip edge with ur concrete?
Can see pic of your building and concrete where they meet?

 

[mepstein]

If you need a permit, you might as well work on that first, otherwise all the other stuff might not matter if your permit isn’t approved.

 

[Toolfool]

Your first mistake was not doing your research to find out what is required in your area. Your second mistake was hiring someone to do a job without plans and drawings. Get a building put up on your slab, if the building dept will allow it, and enjoy it.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

If you need a permit, you might as well work on that first, otherwise all the other stuff might not matter if your permit isn’t approved.

Agreed. Just making it hard cuz everything keeps goin up so saving money to get any of this done is so hard.
Like my concrete started out 4500. Buy time I came up with it the price increased. Then I’d save and then call concrete guy and prices would be higher. Happened a few times before I had the money the concrete guys would say it would cost.
The garage has done that to. That’s why I just sent on garage cuz fingered if that was done out the way when I had garage money I could just send it (also I didn’t find out about permit stuff till quite while after I made the pad. Doesn’t help pad wasn’t made to size I ordered/asked for.

Working on putting shed together so I can move it. Then I’ll cut the tree down.

So on permit I need to figure out the plan.
What kinda building am I getting. Do I need to add concrete to fit garage. Do I have to add footings around pad. (That would prolly cost every bit of savings I have to do). I can’t decide if I need to tear this fence down before or after pad is fixed or garage is built or how ever that’s goin.
Reason is I have to do some digging up of these roots from the small trees and all the plant stuff growing at the fence. That I want to get yard leveled better cause it’s not to level. It’s up and down all over place due to yard use to just be full of 10-12 trees. Then I’d like to slope the yard to slope away from the garage and slope back of yard toward the fence and the big drain that is right on other side of fence.

Guess wish had concrete guys that’s would of told me to plan all these better than just accepting money to do a job. As a guy that works on cars and take pride in it. If a guy wants to do something outta order I’ll tell them and if they insist I’ll tell them if they wanna work with me we do things right and if u want it done wrong pick another guy. Wish when I hired ppl I found workers like that

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Your first mistake was not doing your research to find out what is required in your area. Your second mistake was hiring someone to do a job without plans and drawings. Get a building put up on your slab, if the building dept will allow it, and enjoy it.

I did some. I didn’t read anywhere where it said I had to have a permit in building codes of area. I just read couple ft off fence line and I couldn’t build bigger than my house and couldn’t cover up more than 3/4 of my yard and that I couldn’t go higher than 6’ of a privacy fence.
We had plans of what was doin. The building company told to do 27.2 on each way and to do 1” of slope on each side to shed water off. That was the plans and in the contract.
The shed at last second stopped that and him crushing my old slab.
No I’m stuck with what I have.
Plus I can’t just build a building. I don’t want a small pond in my building

 

[Stoshu]

At the moment just having the pad I’m lucky and don’t have any problem of water built up anywhere around pad or showing any signs of water pouring under it. Now when I have the garage built and have water shedding off the walls/roof I prolly will. I was thinking of gutters and a French drain to deflect water from goin under.

Wow

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

Wow

What?

 

[Viper98912]

Here is a couple pics of it after it rained today and after starts to dry showing where holds the most
This is why haven’t just sent putting a building on the pad yet. A lot of water will come in the far back left corner. That and I can’t get a building built 26.7 in length. I don’t want a lot of concrete on outside of the garage. Imma already have a inch each side of garage since it’s 27.2. Was suppose to have a slope at that inch on each side. I guess me saying go ahead and do pad for shed he threw out the slope plan.

It would be awesome to get it built to the exact perimeter of pad. I don’t need that shed pad as I did since my shed got killed by a tree cutter.

I don't think you're in as bad a shape as you think on the water. Just cut down the land some on that side and it shouldn't run down onto your pad in that area. At least, from what we can see in the pictures.

 

[vrinner]

I did some. I didn’t read anywhere where it said I had to have a permit in building codes of area. I just read couple ft off fence line and I couldn’t build bigger than my house and couldn’t cover up more than 3/4 of my yard and that I couldn’t go higher than 6’ of a privacy fence.
We had plans of what was doin. The building company told to do 27.2 on each way and to do 1” of slope on each side to shed water off. That was the plans and in the contract.
The shed at last second stopped that and him crushing my old slab.
No I’m stuck with what I have.
Plus I can’t just build a building. I don’t want a small pond in my building

Best to go to your local city/planning department and verify permit/plans/engineering needed. A 27X27 is much bigger than a typical "shed" that you can usually get away without asking. Would be a bummer to keep going through stuff just to find out that they require much more than you think or have "planned" on doing.

Where are you located?

 

[dcg9381]

They won’t fit to the pad. Especially to the inches. If found a decent company to build metal building to the exact size of the pad that’s what I’d go with and call that part finally done.

You're buying a pre-fabbed building kit. Gonna have to drop that idea. You need a company that can do custom buildings. It'll cost more, but not nearly as much as re-doing a slab correctly.

 

[WiCkEdS GaRaGe]

They won’t fit to the pad. Especially to the inches. If found a decent company to build metal building to the exact size of the pad that’s what I’d go with and call that part finally done.

Man that would be superb