connecting romex- twist before wirenut?

[jdsac]

Had an electrician do some work & he didn't twist the wires together before putting on the nut. Said the nut would twist them.
After he left, I took a couple of nuts off to see if they twisted together as claimed & they were no where near as well connected as they would have been if they would have been twisted , then nutted.

I'm thinking it was a shortcut to save time, doesn't seem like a proper way to do the best job possible.

I don't mind redoing them if they are wrong, or is that the way it's done now?

 

[ADSR]

I'm lazy and let the nut do the work as well.

 

[Norcal]

Most connector manufacturers say pre-twisting not required, but I am a pre-twister.

Only thing that gets my goat is when someone adds tape to the connector, do the job right & it's not needed, but that is a whole different topic.

 

[teamextreme]

Ya, don't mention the tape, I got chastized for saying it was a rookie move in another thread awhile back.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I still wrap wirenuts with super 33 from time to time depending on the situation to keep maintenance guys and craigslist electricians from screwing with things,slows them down anyway.
I also wrap my switches and outlets with super 33 before shoving them in the box.
I don't normally twist solid wires before installing wirenuts,I do twist stranded wires together though.
As far as the rookie remark about tape I don't worry too much anymore.Ive still got a couple of active electrical licenses,1 says master electrician and the other says electrical contractor.
Both allow me to work in several different states besides Nebraska,So apparently I have managed to learn something in the last 30 plus years of bending pipe and pulling wire.

 

[AndyCBR]

Had an electrician do some work & he didn't twist the wires together before putting on the nut. Said the nut would twist them.
After he left, I took a couple of nuts off to see if they twisted together as claimed & they were no where near as well connected as they would have been if they would have been twisted , then nutted.

I'm thinking it was a shortcut to save time, doesn't seem like a proper way to do the best job possible.

I don't mind redoing them if they are wrong, or is that the way it's done now?

Pre-twisting is not necessary but if it makes you feel better you can do it. I do find many people do not tighten the nuts enough and that can lead to a poor connection with little twist in the connection.

I'll pre twist with my lineman's pliers if I have a large number of wires going into a larger wire nut just so they stay together until I twist the nut on.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

FWIW: I twist the wires together, it's how I was taught. I also, a lot of times will keep twisting until all the wire is twisted neatly to take out the "extra" wire in the box. It seems to make placing the devices in a box easier to me.

 

[Captain America]

I pre-twist so I can see the connection between the wires before I put the wire nut on.

 

[thewatusi]

I do not pre-twist, so long as the instructions on the bag do not call for it. The exception is if I'm connecting 4 conductors as it's hard to keep them lined up when starting the nut.

I do tighten the nuts until they're so tight my fingers slip. I'll also tug on the nut afterwards to make sure the connection is good.

If you strip the appropriate amount of insulation and install the nut correctly electronic tape is completely unnecessary.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I've never pretwisted. I've had less than 5 failures in 40+ years in the trade .

I do, though, pull on each wire to make sure it's in the wirenut correctly. If it isn't, I pull the wirenut off and make the connection again.

Taping a wirenut, never. If you have to tape a wirenut (due to vibration, etc) you probably shouldn't have used a wirenut in the first place.

Receptacles and switches I just tape if there's a chance of it contacting a metal box closer than the attachment screw's travel.

 

[mobiledynamics]

ZMAX -

I used to wrap all switches and outlets with a onceover with tape. We live out here in BX land, boxes are steel, etc.

However, I've found 33 does turn gummy regardless over time so I stopped using it.

 

[Zeke]

I think pre twisting is good. I strip a little long, assemble the wire group and give it a couple of half twists. then I cut the end even and get most of the marring cut off. I seem to have enough short wires that will pull out if I don't take the time. I also will twist 2 wires together before laying in a stranded wire. I don't twist the stranded because it seems to wrap up tighter and get somewhat damaged.

I have long thought of modifying some nines so that they have a slightly hollowed out curvature in the jaws in line with the handles to twist the wires perfectly w/o marring. I am doing a lot of electrical work here at the house so I may just get to that.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

ZMAX -

I used to wrap all switches and outlets with a onceover with tape. We live out here in BX land, boxes are steel, etc.

However, I've found 33 does turn gummy regardless over time so I stopped using it.

Ive always had better luck with 33 over the super 88 lots of people like,the super 88 is too stiff/plastic like to me any way when I go to use it.

 

[damienga15de]

All our machines at work are American I replace any wire nuts I find with proper connectors.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

All our machines at work are American I replace any wire nuts I find with proper connectors.

That's fine in an industrial setting where things get shook/rattled and the budget isn't a problem.
That would get really expensive really fast in a residential type setting though,not to mention youd end up with 2 gang boxes with single gang plaster rings for every recept and switch in the house to allow for box fill with those big monsters on each connection.

 

[Lassen Forge]

I used to get the cheap wire nuts so I used to twist *and* tape. (I also used a lot of AL back then... not any more.) The ones I get now, I get a good connection if I don't twist - I had to take one apart, and found the built in spring was a (deleted) to get apart (ended up cutting it). I was also taught (by an old electrician) to wrap anything going in a metal box, but found it wasn't necessary.

What I won't do - absolutely refuse to do - is use the "poke-in connectors" on the back of a socket install. Every time I have to deal with either a dead socket or a dead short into a box, it's either a wire broken at the internal clamp (and touching the side of the box) or a defective internal clamp. If I twist a loop and tighten the screws (the right way, BTW) I never have that issue.

...proper connectors.

Those are SOP in the EU. I'd buy them in strips of 15 at the Ferramenta (Italian local hardware store) and trim them to the needed # of connectors. I don't recall ever seeing a wire nut the entire time we were there. They work great, but can be an SOB to get back apart if needed.

 

[troyks]

I leaned to pre-twist wires, but anymore I've found that if you use quality wire nuts and twist them down properly on non-twisted wire they actually perform better for me. When pre-twisting I've found it can be hard to get the nut started on occasion, and when comparing the two methods side by side I found the wire nuts get a better bite on the wire if you don't pre-twist.

 

[rlitman]

I've never pretwisted. I've had less than 5 failures in 40+ years in the trade .

I do, though, pull on each wire to make sure it's in the wirenut correctly. If it isn't, I pull the wirenut off and make the connection again.

Taping a wirenut, never. If you have to tape a wirenut (due to vibration, etc) you probably shouldn't have used a wirenut in the first place.

Receptacles and switches I just tape if there's a chance of it contacting a metal box closer than the attachment screw's travel.

+1 to everything here!

Taping around a receptacle also protects it from making accidental contact with a spackler's knife when they're doing cleanup around the box hole.

 

[Professur]

I twist before I nut, and I tape around a receptacle. Necessary? Probably not ... but knowing I've added a layer of insurance lets me sleep a little easier. It shouldn't be necessary, but unless someone can convince me that it makes things worse in some way, why not?

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you are going to pre-twist, use linesman's pliers. The finish on the faces are designed to "slip" across the bare copper.

 

[mobiledynamics]

,not to mention youd end up with 2 gang boxes with single gang plaster rings for every recept and switch :

I'm no sparky so $ per job does not matter to me...

In the 4 houses I've owned, anytime I've renoved, I generally use 2 gangs with Mud Rings. On the switches, I uses these insane custom steel boxes that have their special mud rings to mate, for 3-4 switches *dimmers take up space real quick*. I've always liked ~extra volume~. Raco makes a 2 gang box that is literally 3 1/4 deep !

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

That's the difference between doing your own stuff and doing a job for a customer, customers have budgets and timelines.
On my own stuff on the other hand I can spend as much time and money as I want.

 

[teamextreme]

I still wrap wirenuts with super 33 from time to time depending on the situation to keep maintenance guys and craigslist electricians from screwing with things,slows them down anyway.
I also wrap my switches and outlets with super 33 before shoving them in the box.
I don't normally twist solid wires before installing wirenuts,I do twist stranded wires together though.
As far as the rookie remark about tape I don't worry too much anymore.Ive still got a couple of active electrical licenses,1 says master electrician and the other says electrical contractor.
Both allow me to work in several different states besides Nebraska,So apparently I have managed to learn something in the last 30 plus years of bending pipe and pulling wire.

My rookie comment wasn't meant to imply you didn't know your stuff, it just shows that even people with extensive experience can have vastly differing opinions on how things are done.

I always pre-twist. That's how I was taught. Someone mentioned not getting a wire nut to bite when pre-twisting. Are you cutting off the very end after twisting? That's how I was taught and I find if you don't do that the wires tend to taper down to the longest one (with > 2 wires) and the nut won't bite.

I'm with alfredeneuman on everything he said too.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

No problem,like I said anytime I tape wirenuts its generally to keep people from screwing with things they shouldn't have.
This town is full of craigslist geniuses who do everything from mow your yard/paint your house or plumb it.Problem being they aren't licensed for anything.
If I ever get called back on a job I did its my way of knowing if somebody else has been screwing with things since I was there last.
My plumbing and hvac work is also done a certain way that I know it was me or somebody who was trained by me that did the work.
Most of our local inspectors can normally pick out my work by the little details.

 

[sberry]

I don't pre twist but I get them tight. They twist as they tighten.

 

[Mustang51js]

I pretwist everything also,it's the way I was taught. I do have to say 9 out of 10 times I troubleshoot power not working it's either a loose wire in the nut,or a backstabbed outlet. Anything that has a big draw such as a window ac or dehumidifier is where you want to twist the wires before if your not going to do it all the time. The heating and cooling will loosen up the wirenut over time. I've also had a rare occasion when wires where twisted and still separated in the nut.

 

[mobiledynamics]

All this talking about heating/cooling/wirenut....

Had a pro spark run wires to our minisplits.
From Panel, Bell Box Outdoors. Then Conduit external to rooftop.
He used wirenuts for 6AWG wire....I don't think there is slack in there for me to cut and put some Polaris on. One day, I'll just pull the wire out and re-run it...with a Polaris as the middleman

 

[86turbodsl]

I am not an electrician, but have done a LOT of wiring for various homes/shops, myself and others. I've seen wires pop out the backside if not twisted. Lots of people don't pretwist, I always do. Mechanically, that wire nut does not do a good enough job to prevent a high resistance connection and is not secure enough to prevent occasional wires popping out, and i have never seen one that was not pre-twisted twist itself inside the wire nut. Just pre-twist and rest easy. Takes seconds and prevents possible issues.

 

[tdkkart]

The codes wizards have come up with every other assinine rule they can possibly think of, do we not think they'd have extra rules for wire nuts if they thought it was even remotely necessary??
But this is the problem with those people, stuff that has been proven over and over again to fail, like wire nuts and backstabs, they do nothing about.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The codes wizards have come up with every other assinine rule they can possibly think of, do we not think they'd have extra rules for wire nuts if they thought it was even remotely necessary??
But this is the problem with those people, stuff that has been proven over and over again to fail, like wire nuts and backstabs, they do nothing about.

We haven't been able to backstab plugs/switches around here since the early 90s.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

All this talking about heating/cooling/wirenut....

Had a pro spark run wires to our minisplits.
From Panel, Bell Box Outdoors. Then Conduit external to rooftop.
He used wirenuts for 6AWG wire....I don't think there is slack in there for me to cut and put some Polaris on. One day, I'll just pull the wire out and re-run it...with a Polaris as the middleman

I wouldn't use wirenuts on #6s myself,I would've used split bolts.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

All this talking about heating/cooling/wirenut....

Had a pro spark run wires to our minisplits.
From Panel, Bell Box Outdoors. Then Conduit external to rooftop.
He used wirenuts for 6AWG wire....I don't think there is slack in there for me to cut and put some Polaris on. One day, I'll just pull the wire out and re-run it...with a Polaris as the middleman

What kind of minisplits are you installing that they require 6AWG?!

BTW, personally I pretwist solid wire, but not stranded. I don't think there's anything about it in the code, but I was taught the insulated part of the wire sticking out of the nut should have at least 3 twists...

Tommy

 

[mobiledynamics]

3 Units Sitting uptop

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Are you feeding all 3 from a shared circuit,what tonnage are they?

 

[Scott r c]

On my new shop the contractor didn't use wirenuts. They were plastic things with holes you plugged the wires into.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Yeah they save time,more expensive though.

 

[checkthisout]

On my new shop the contractor didn't use wirenuts. They were plastic things with holes you plugged the wires into.

Yeah, I used them on my own place about 10 years ago after an industrial electrician raved about them. No problems yet.


Done a few remodels here and there and I like to twist before nutting (LOL). I strip long (LOL again), gather them up in linemans pliers, twist, clip off even and then install a wire nut to the point that it hurts my fingers.

If you just line the wires up and throw the nut on, how can you be sure one wire hasn't slipped out and is making very poor contact?

 

[mobiledynamics]

OT, BUT I myself used the Wago 221 in my ~splice~ box as well as inside my main panel for my generator transfer switch. Those 221's are the cat's paws (and it only goes up to 12awg)......I will use 3M Performance Plus in general, but for something that's neat and tidy, those 221 are the way to go.

 

[sberry]

ame as the torque wrench test, most fail miserably about getting tight enough. Twisting simply helps with pull out and actually may not be so good for connections, it wants to spring back, probably moot5 but the conductors laying along side each other squeezed together with the nut is very good.
Another thing that caused a lot of problems was the scotch vinal covered pos. I throw them out, they never were any good but were very popular for a long time till Ideal and WingNut rightfully kicked their tail.
I know some electricians with pitiful hand strength, I don't trust any connections they make. But when I put a nut on if you want to disconnect usually have to remove nut and clip it apart. Its really nearly welded.

 

[bubinga]

IIRC there is even a tool for tightening wire nuts.
it is my understanding you are to tighten them until they start to twist the wires up together.
(The insulated part)
$11.47 and free shipping. have not used it,
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LDCRLQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20