Consolidating Electric Meters

[H-D Dad]

Hi all!

My situation is - I am using 2 meters on my property. I would like to consolidate. To do that I would need a new meter set ($30 connect fee, no deposit). 200 amps. I will run new 200 amp wire and set a new 200 amp breaker box. I would then add 125 amp breaker to new box then wire to existing box. Will post picture of existing box. Question: Will this work?

I'm going to connect 3 travel trailers and several garages (no big power consumers). Existing box runs 2 travel trailers. Just need Dbl 50 for other trailer. Problem is I have a small cabin I need general receptical for TV, lamps, ceiling fan, computer, and porch lights. Picture of cabin to follow.

Thanks! Wes

 

[H-D Dad]

Existing breaker box

 

[H-D Dad]

[/attach]

 

[rockwithjason]

My situation is - I am using 2 meters on my property. I would like to consolidate. To do that I would need a new meter set ($30 connect fee, no deposit). 200 amps. I will run new 200 amp wire and set a new 200 amp breaker box. I would then add 125 amp breaker to new box then wire to existing box. Will post picture of existing box. Question: Will this work?
yes, but be sure a 125a is available for the new main panel before committing to that. you will also need to rearrange your grounding and neutral bonding to accommodate the new set up. be sure you get your power company specs on new service and follow them.

I'm going to connect 3 travel trailers and several garages (no big power consumers). Existing box runs 2 travel trailers. Just need Dbl 50 for other trailer. Problem is I have a small cabin I need general receptical for TV, lamps, ceiling fan, computer, and porch lights.
i am not sure why this is a problemPicture of cabin to follow.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi all!

My situation is - I am using 2 meters on my property. I would like to consolidate. To do that I would need a new meter set ($30 connect fee, no deposit). 200 amps. I will run new 200 amp wire and set a new 200 amp breaker box. I would then add 125 amp breaker to new box then wire to existing box. Will post picture of existing box. Question: Will this work?

I'm going to connect 3 travel trailers and several garages (no big power consumers). Existing box runs 2 travel trailers. Just need Dbl 50 for other trailer. Problem is I have a small cabin I need general receptacle for TV, lamps, ceiling fan, computer, and porch lights. Picture of cabin to follow.

Thanks! Wes

Yes it will work but will require some reconfiguration.

The exiting box will need to be turned into a subpanel which means changing it to a 4-wire panel:

green screw on neutral bar needs to be removed.
Make sure neutral bar is isolated from panel enclosure
Add new ground bar kit.
Move ground wires currently on neutral bar to new ground bar

Also, the GEC for the grounding electrode and/or water line bond should be removed and reconnected to the new main service panel neutral bar.

How will u feed this panel? SER or individual conductors in conduit?

I cant tell what the current feeder type is since the top of the panel is cut off in the pic.

Where is it located in relation to location of new meter main?

Existing breaker box

I see a number of issues in this panel that need to be addressed.

What is the brand and model of this panel?

Im guessing GE by the majority of the breakers.

Which means that double pole SQ D needs to removed and replaced with the proper GE breaker.

ALso, u have a number of neutral lugs double up with either 2 neutrals or neutral and ground wire.

Neutrals should NEVER be doubled up under a lug- 1 neutral per lug/hole.

If the panel is listed for it, u may double up ground wires.

Since u will need to add a ground bar, u can fix that issue when u move the ground wires over.

My situation is - I am using 2 meters on my property. I would like to consolidate. To do that I would need a new meter set ($30 connect fee, no deposit). 200 amps. I will run new 200 amp wire and set a new 200 amp breaker box. I would then add 125 amp breaker to new box then wire to existing box. Will post picture of existing box. Question: Will this work?

yes, but be sure a 125a is available for the new main panel before committing to that. you will also need to rearrange your grounding and neutral bonding to accommodate the new set up. be sure you get your power company specs on new service and follow them.

He is getting a new 200a service NOT a 125a service. The current service is 125a.....

 

[H-D Dad]

My situation is - I am using 2 meters on my property. I would like to consolidate. To do that I would need a new meter set ($30 connect fee, no deposit). 200 amps. I will run new 200 amp wire and set a new 200 amp breaker box. I would then add 125 amp breaker to new box then wire to existing box. Will post picture of existing box. Question: Will this work?
yes, but be sure a 125a is available for the new main panel before committing to that. you will also need to rearrange your grounding and neutral bonding to accommodate the new set up. be sure you get your power company specs on new service and follow them.

I'm going to connect 3 travel trailers and several garages (no big power consumers). Existing box runs 2 travel trailers. Just need Dbl 50 for other trailer. Problem is I have a small cabin I need general receptical for TV, lamps, ceiling fan, computer, and porch lights.
i am not sure why this is a problemPicture of cabin to follow.

The problem is I'm out of room on existing breaker box. To make it into a sub panel I will issues to address. Thanks for the heads up on the 125amp in the new main panel. I haven't been able to research that yet. I hope that's not a deal breaker.

 

[H-D Dad]

Yes it will work but will require some reconfiguration.

The exiting box will need to be turned into a subpanel which means changing it to a 4-wire panel:

green screw on neutral bar needs to be removed.
Make sure neutral bar is isolated from panel enclosure
Add new ground bar kit.
Move ground wires currently on neutral bar to new ground bar

Also, the GEC for the grounding electrode and/or water line bond should be removed and reconnected to the new main service panel neutral bar.

How will u feed this panel? SER or individual conductors in conduit?

I cant tell what the current feeder type is since the top of the panel is cut off in the pic.

Where is it located in relation to location of new meter main?



I see a number of issues in this panel that need to be addressed.

What is the brand and model of this panel?

Im guessing GE by the majority of the breakers.

Which means that double pole SQ D needs to removed and replaced with the proper GE breaker.

ALso, u have a number of neutral lugs double up with either 2 neutrals or neutral and ground wire.

Neutrals should NEVER be doubled up under a lug- 1 neutral per lug/hole.

If the panel is listed for it, u may double up ground wires.

Since u will need to add a ground bar, u can fix that issue when u move the ground wires over.



He is getting a new 200a service NOT a 125a service. The current service is 125a.....

Thank you for your help. After reading a lot of posts on this forum I know I have a number of issues in this existing box.
Existing box is fed by individual conductors
It is GE 125amp main breaker. I couldn't find model number.
Hopefully I can get all issues fixed next week.
I am roughing in electric for cabin going to foam insulate on Wednesday.
I have a lot to do. Thank you very much. Wes

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The problem is I'm out of room on existing breaker box. To make it into a sub panel I will issues to address. Thanks for the heads up on the 125amp in the new main panel. I haven't been able to research that yet. I hope that's not a deal breaker.

Why do u need any room to make it into a subpanel?

And if u need more circuit space, why not get a main service panel with enough space to accommodate existing and new circuits?

Are u saying u have to run new circuits off of the future subpanel(current main that is pictured)?

 

[H-D Dad]

Yes I need new 200amp main panel to tie in 1 more park model travel trailer and cabin.
Then use 125amp breaker to power existing 125amp GE box. I hope I explained that correct. Thanks. Wes.
Unless there's another way to consolidate both meters

 

[wyliesdiesels]

To consolidate both services, u need to make sure 200a is enough.

Have u done a load calc to figure out what your load is?

 

[H-D Dad]

Not actually. Largest power needs electric range, electric heat, ac and electric clothes dryer which will soon be charged to gas. Thank you. I sent you a pm.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

yeah those can all be a large draw depending on size.

Best to do a load calc first.

And your PoCo may ask for one regardless.

Switching to gas is a great idea.

How large is the house?

 

[H-D Dad]

I called POCO this they said 30bucks to set meter. No mention of anything else.
I have 2 park model travel trailers, 40x8 with 2 slide outs and a 27 footer with 1 slide.
I have 1 10x20 garage for 3 wheel motorcycle.Will be foam insulating Wed.
I also have 12x30 garage for boat. Will be foamed also Wed.
The second park model was an offer I couldn't refuse. I just need to get everything tied to. One meter if possible. Thanks Wes

 

[H-D Dad]

I still need to cover the floor but boat
house is pressure washed getting ready for insulation.

 

[bjcouche]

A load calc would be the best way to go but that does take a lot of nameplate reading and some pencil and paper work...
Can you at least help us out by listing your buildings / trailers in list form and provide details on which will have electric heat or what type of electric service? Something like AS AN EXAMPLE:

trailer #1: 240V 50A plug
trailer #2: TWO 240V 50A plugs
trailer #3: 1 30A 120V plug
tiny house #1: currently fed by ** breaker from old panel.
tiny house #2: new house, load unknown but has xxKW electric heat, electric drier, xxkw electric water heater etc.
garage #1 expect to have 5 120V outlets and lights, and will be heated with electric heater XXKW.
Garage #2 just need a couple 120V outlets and lights, it will not be heated.

Also list which buildings are presently on the old GE panel.
All this info might allow us to give you better guidance.

 

[79firebird]

I my self would see about a 320 amp service with 1 meter and 2 breaker panles.
1 would be for the 2 houses
2ed one would be for trailer and garage Gives you room to grow down the road.

 

[H-D Dad]

I'm going to have a couple hours to get some load calculations. I'll be back a little later with more info. Thanks for helping me get this resolved. Wes

 

[H-D Dad]

Hi all. I calculated around 100 amps electric range I will attach pictures of tag it's listed in Watts. Thanks.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi all. I calculated around 100 amps electric range I will attach pictures of tag it's listed in Watts. Thanks.

Im not understanding what youre sayng here.

Are u saying u figured the range is 100a load?

 

[H-D Dad]

I'm sorry that did not post correctly. I have calculated 100 amp load plus the oven. I need to find the amp load on the oven. Thank you.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I'm sorry that did not post correctly. I have calculated 100 amp load plus the oven. I need to find the amp load on the oven. Thank you.

How did u come up with that number?

Are u using a load calc sheet?

 

[H-D Dad]

I used 30amps for trailer 1, breaker size. I used 30amps for electric clothes dryer, breaker size all other appliances I found name tags most had amps on them some had flat amps . Electric range had watts(pic of tag above). I still don't know how many amps range is. I don't have a calc sheet. Previous owner didn't use sub boxs for washroom or porch he went to breaker box.

 

[DC73]

. . . see about a 320 amp service with 1 meter and 2 breaker panels.

H-D Dad, 79firebird has proposed a good option for you to consider. To further clarify, a 320 amp meter base will have two sets of lugs so you can run one set of wires back to your existing panel and a second set of wires directly to a new panel. No need to create a 200 A to 125 A sub-panel situation. A 320 amp meter base is more expensive but it might work out better in the long run. Run this option by your power company to make sure there are no gotchas on their end.

DC

 

[H-D Dad]

DC73 I do apologize I completely missed that. I will contact poco Monday. Just a fyi meter bases are already installed in subdivision. May be a tough sell, but ill ask on Monday. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Wes

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I used 30amps for trailer 1, breaker size. I used 30amps for electric clothes dryer, breaker size all other appliances I found name tags most had amps on them some had flat amps. Electric range had watts(pic of tag above). I still don't know how many amps range is. I don't have a calc sheet. Previous owner didn't use sub boxes for washroom or porch he went to breaker box.

For load calcs u dont just add up the breakers.

there is a certain way to do it.

here is a link with some into to get u started:

http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/residential-calculations

 

[H-D Dad]

Thank you for the link I did read it but I'm still confused how to figure out the load calculations on a 320 square foot travel trailer with a 50 amp plug on it. Thanks for any help. The previous owner scattered 120 volt plugs all over the property wire directly to the breaker box I could probably rewire breaker box but that would not allow me enough amperage to add travel trailer and tiny cabin.
I would like to add 8,000 BTU window unit air conditioning and a 1500 watt portable heater to the cabin

 

[sberry]

Are these trailers and cabin full of people continious? Sometimes its way easier to convert a couple items to gas but you really got to work to overload 100 let alone 200.

 

[H-D Dad]

No. The 27 Ft. Is used about 1 month a year for family and friends. We live-in the one during the day and sleep in the other park model at night. Kinda strange, but very convenient for us.

 

[sberry]

I did a job from 200 to 325. On 200 it took 4 50a fryers, AC about 30 run, several fridges, lights, walk in frees and fridges, vent for ranger x 3, coffee, warmers, and the mai. on a dark sun facing wall. I ran a weldind shop a year from 100, plaz, full size feeder, small one, air comp, 500 aDd lights, chop saws. Pressure wash, electric heaters on occasion. 3 up well. At one point had 24 people on it too, gas apiances though.

 

[sberry]

Only other resi overload I have seen is old 60 on all electric house, they bought a new big microw and it finally snapped. It was a bud, it got new 200 but would have run 100 no prob. Had one on a park once, 200 ft of 6 on a 60 to a shack, 49a on one leg and 1a on another. Ha

 

[H-D Dad]

I could probably remove 3 120v circuits. Hook up dbl 50 and single 30 and be good Togo.

 

[sberry]

It doesn't matter how much you have connected, can have 1000A breakers and 1000 lights but you run 1 at a time the load is only 1. My main shop as 6 or 700A breakers in a 200 and never sees more than 100 on a peak if ever.

 

[H-D Dad]

We do climate control both trailers all day.

 

[sberry]

Not a big deal. Most AC run about 1/2 or bit less of breaker rating. Normally they do not run 100 percent. The most loaded are dryer, 25 on a 30 as well as to recharge water heater, 25 also, both short cycle. Neither run continious.
The tavern I described only had 3 hours a week it was a problem in the summer, Friday fish fry on hot evenings.

 

[sberry]

An electric range is 50A, this is all 4 burners on hi and oven on broil. Very few ever see this even on holiday. Folks house is electric, in outage turn off water heater and run the place incl another trailer/home on 5500 watt gen and never know it.

 

[H-D Dad]

We do get fish fry. Propane on the porch

 

[H-D Dad]

I just saw a 200 amp main panel with feed thru lugs. Guy called it a mobile home breaker panel. If the thru lugs are connected to another panel that has a main breaker an does that panel become a sub panel, . Thanks Wes.

 

[sberry]

Yes, it needs 4 wires between panels.

 

[H-D Dad]

Thanks that's the direction I'm heading.

 

[sberry]

It doesn't have to be a 200A panel or 200 wire between them. The wire needs to be big enough to support the breaker in the second panel, if its 100 it can be a 100A wire under most circumstances. The breaker in the second panel insures that no load is bigger than it can pull, kind of protection in reverse.
There are probably a couple guys can splain the tap rules better than I can. The smallest wire that could be connected is a number 6 I believe but,,,,,,,,,, if you have breaker spaces in it you wouldn't need to use the feed thru, could always put it on another breaker which is actually better due to the fact you can shut it off to the second panel without interrupting the whole place and shutting down the main.