Construction adhesive questions. Urethane the same as Polyurethane glue?

[NewShockerGuy]

I'm at the point in our basement that I am going to be doing the treads and risers via Cali bamboo vinyl treads and risers. On their site they recommend a "high-quality Urethane based glue, such as Titebond Fast Set Construction Adhesive. (Do not use liquid nails.)"

Titebond PROvantage Heavy Duty Construction Adhesive:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Titebon...Vrf_jBx1RmgmqEAQYAiABEgLgffD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

I was browsing for a good adhesive and Loctite came up and tons of reviews state this is what one should be using as it's better than anything out there.

Loctite PL Premium

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Loctite...Vef7jBx2PIgduEAQYAiABEgIi-fD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

My question is since I've never used construction adhesive before I want to make sure it's correct. Is Urethane based construction glue the same as polyurethane based?

This is going to be used to bond the vinyl stair tread (entire tread piece) to the existing wood stair tread after I cut the nose off. The riser will be bonded the same way on the standard wood riser that's there now. I want something that the treads/risers never come loose or apart/wobble, creak..etc. I want something that is going to be there until I am dead.

Appreciate all the help.

-Nigel

 

[fasteddie]

Never used the Titebond, PL does have a great reputation, it's good stuff but if the Titebond is readily available and that's what the manufacturer recommends, I would go with that. They are probably almost identical but Titebond says "fast grab". Maybe that's the reason. Could also be some adhesion issue. Plastics and adhesives sometimes don't work well together.

 

[rlitman]

I've used the Loctite PL Premium "3x" in the link. It's good stuff, rated for 30 minute set, 24 hour cure.

They also sell a Fast grab "8x" version that sets up twice as hard, and I think is better all around, and it sets in 20 minutes. A day later, it's as hard as the wood it's on.

Finally, Loctite makes a "Max" product that sets up as hard as the Fast Grab, but guns out smoother. I found it to be a little runny, but a thinner product like this would probably be a better choice on a large surface area being bonded, as the thicker above adhesives may be hard to squeeze out.

 

[b-boy]

I prefer Loctite products. I've used them for multiple jobs.

That being said, I'd go with whatever the material manufacturer recommends. I did a set of wooden treads, and if I strayed outside of their recommendations, I voided my warranty.

 

[56Safari]

I’ve used the loc-tite 8x on stair treads, the bullnose on the top stair, tile, etc... works very well. It adheres to non porous surfaces very well also. Just make sure you wear gloves, that stuff messes your skin up if you touch it... kind of like getting spray foam insulation on your hands, they dry out and peel a lot.


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[benjamintmiller]

To answer your original question, yes, the PL Premium is a urethane glue and will work great for your stair treads. (Urethane is almost always short for polyurethane).

PL Premium is great stuff -- you can stick a piece of wet wood to a piece of frozen wood with it and it will cure.

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

To answer your original question, yes, the PL Premium is a urethane glue and will work great for your stair treads. (Urethane is almost always short for polyurethane).

PL Premium is great stuff -- you can stick a piece of wet wood to a piece of frozen wood with it and it will cure.

Urethane and polyurethane are two different substances,

http://www.differencebetween.net/object/difference-between-urethane-and-polyurethane/

 

[Lynden]

On the Cali Bamboo website two Titebond adhesives are recommended for their vinyl flooring -- Titebond 821 for one of their vinyl products and Titebond 670 for their other two vinyl products.

https://www.calibamboo.com/flooring-installation/ --> See Vinyl Flooring Installation

https://www.calibamboo.com/product-titebond-821-flooring-adhesive-1101000400.html

https://www.calibamboo.com/product-titebond-670-premium-flooring-adhesive-1101000410.html

Is there somewhere else on the website that Titebond constuction adhesive is specifically recommended for treads and risers?

 

[NewShockerGuy]

On the Cali Bamboo website two Titebond adhesives are recommended for their vinyl flooring -- Titebond 821 for one of their vinyl products and Titebond 670 for their other two vinyl products.

https://www.calibamboo.com/flooring-installation/ --> See Vinyl Flooring Installation

https://www.calibamboo.com/product-titebond-821-flooring-adhesive-1101000400.html

https://www.calibamboo.com/product-titebond-670-premium-flooring-adhesive-1101000410.html

Is there somewhere else on the website that Titebond constuction adhesive is specifically recommended for treads and risers?

I believe those are for when you are gluing the floor down to the subfloor. I think I read in both the installations pdf's and they were calling for those two.

On their "accessory" page:
https://www.calibamboo.com/flooring-trim-tips-and-tricks/

For their accessories that's where they have that they recommend a Urethane adhesive. Attached screen shot below.

I have sent the sales rep who has been helping us an email yesterday asking if I can use the Loctite PL. I'm awaiting a response back.

I looked at the specs of the PL and it say it might have trouble bonding plastics... The Titebond specifically states that it will bond to pretty much everything including plastics. Which is what the reducers are from Cali.

Problem is I can't source it locally. I found a 3 pack on amazon but now I am seeing that Titebond has changed something and their newer stuff is "Green" environmentally friendly which normally means the product has lost something. Just reading reviews on "green" products most people want the old formula back. So I am hesitant to purchase it now.

*Quick edit if I wasn't clear* Note that I am not gluing the vinyl flooring down to the subfloor in our basement. I only need to glue the stair treads/risers to the existing stairs, and also install the reducers which will be directly on the subfloor. The entire vinyl floor is going to be floating on top of their under laminate


-Nigel

 

[fasteddie]

When I first posted to this thread, I didn't realize that Cali actually sells the Tightbond line of adhesives. That may well be the biggest reason they recommend its use.

 

[rlitman]

...*Quick edit if I wasn't clear* Note that I am not gluing the vinyl flooring down to the subfloor in our basement. I only need to glue the stair treads/risers to the existing stairs, and also install the reducers which will be directly on the subfloor. The entire vinyl floor is going to be floating on top of their under laminate


-Nigel

Yeah, I got that much. And as I see it, gluing the stair treads down is a much more demanding job on the adhesive than gluing a floor down.

As for the "do no use liquid nails": now that I think about it, that's probably because the solvents in LN will dissolve the vinyl.

And as for the sticking to plastics, vinyl isn't one of those plastics that is difficult to adhere to. But I'd still verify with the manufacturer first.

 

[NewShockerGuy]

The person we've been dealing with is very helpful. He emailed me back stating "Yes Loctite PL Premium would be good to use and would not void any warranties with us."

So that's good to know. And since I can get it at HD it should be no problem now.

Appreciate all the help! Now I just gotta figure out how many I need. One question. The PL is not fast set up... why would I want fast set up? IE: If this was my business I can see it getting done faster and curing but since it's my house I am in no rush. If it took a week, that's fine. Seems like the normal stuff cures in 24 hrs which is A-OK.

-Nigel

 

[rlitman]

First, remember that you cannot walk on these threads while they are drying. You have a way out from both sides of the staircase, right?

Polyurethane adhesives rely on moisture from the air to cure, so deep glue joints can take longer, particularly because the vinyl is impervious to moisture. However, the moisture within the wood treads may be sufficient to move things along. Knowing that, I'd expect your cure time to be right inline with whatever it says on the packaging (i.e. you're not some weird edge case).

For "how much", you could always buy a lot more and return some, so you don't run short mid-job.

Pro-tip: whenever I do a glue-up of any sort, I keep at least one sample of the glue handy (perhaps a drip or blob that I cleaned up) that I can watch as it cures to get an idea of what's happening behind the scenes. When the sample is solid, I'll know I'm at least close.

Pro-tip 2: anytime you work with polyurethane adhesives or foams, keep some paper towels and acetone (or better yet, acetone based nail polish remover, which is really just watered down acetone) handy. Clean up any messes IMMEDIATELY, BEFORE it has a chance to start curing.

 

[NewShockerGuy]

Excellent, thank you for the info. Yep I can get out from down stairs, so if I start at the top of the steps and work my way down I can just exit the basement and walk up the side of the house. We also have a door to the basement that is shut so no one would walk down there (just my wife and I).

Great idea on the sample to see set up time and how it's curing. Everything I've read with manufactures directions say that actually slightly misting the area is recommended.

I did always wonder when I see videos of people using construction adhesive for the treads, why would they not cover most of the tread. They always do a loopy snake pattern. Wouldn't it be better to cover as much as the tread as possible?

Appreciate all the tips! If this is anything like expanding foam I do NOT want it on my hands/places I don't want it to go...lol

-Nigel

 

[Danno1]

I did always wonder when I see videos of people using construction adhesive for the treads, why would they not cover most of the tread. They always do a loopy snake pattern. Wouldn't it be better to cover as much as the tread as possible?



-Nigel

Because the loopy pattern spreads out evenly with pressure while you are installing. You would not be able to put a thin even layer on manually. It would be too thick and squeeze out the sides.

Same reason a tile setter uses a notched trowel.



.

 

[rlitman]

...Great idea on the sample to see set up time and how it's curing. Everything I've read with manufactures directions say that actually slightly misting the area is recommended.

I did always wonder when I see videos of people using construction adhesive for the treads, why would they not cover most of the tread. They always do a loopy snake pattern. Wouldn't it be better to cover as much as the tread as possible?

Appreciate all the tips! If this is anything like expanding foam I do NOT want it on my hands/places I don't want it to go...lol

-Nigel

Well, you don't want a wet surface, but if you were to wipe down the treads with a damp rag and give any liquid time to evaporate off or soak in, that would certainly help (plus ragging off any dust also helps).

The loopy pattern is exactly what Danno1 said. It leaves room for the adhesive to spread. Do zig-zags and not loops that overlap. You need to leave space for air to escape.

Yes, it sticks just like spray foam, even though it doesn't expand like it. But like spray foam, it clean up easily enough if you use acetone right away.