Contractor bait and switch???

[90limited]

So I contract with a guy to build a garage this past January. I give him a deposit and then spend the next three months chasing him down as to when he will start. That said, the weather here in KY has been challenging, but not so bad that several streets over they have put three new houses under roof.

So the concrete guy shows up today and shoots the grade and has a big to do that there is a 6' drop from front right to back left. Says they assumed it was around 3'. Both him and the garage builder that I have the contract with came to the site before it was bid. Builder is now telling me that this new news will cost about $3000 more in extra split face block and rock to fill in the floor. Lastly, I am now told that I will have to have a floating floor vs a floor that is tied into the block/footer....

The builder tells me on the phone that he cannot eat the cost... The concrete guy says to offer to split it with him. I feeling telling them both to take their rock and block and stuff it were the sun doesn't shine. At this point if it cost me another 1500 to get the damn thing done it will piss me off, but I just want the damn thing done...

Here is the specs: 24x37, brick on front, dimensional shingles to match the house, vinyl on three sides, 18'x8' insulated door, man door, two windows, 100 amp electric w/ about a 300' run from source, two rows of split face block, 9' framed walls (block and frame will give me 10.5' ceiling), 5/12 pitch., vapor barrier under slab..... and 700 sq' concrete for driveway... $22,800...

 

[7th Kahuna]

I don't know building costs in KY but that seems a bit low for around here, but that is neither here nor there. Do you have a contract with him? Written contract? That governs where you go from here. I would seriously consider asking for the deposit back and moving on. Sounds like the problems may just be getting started.

 

[kd3pc]

Not the way to start out, and on such an easy thing to have seen back in Jan.....by the contractor.

This is telling in so many ways. Get your deposit back, move to another contractor and consider yourself lucky to have found out about this now, not after the walls are up or finished.

If you go ahead with this guy, you can count on other "news" that will take money from your pocket.

not the way to do business.

 

[Morrison]

I would move on as well, not so much for the additional cost but for bring a pain to get a hold of. I won't hire someone that doesn't return calls or disappears for weeks.

You have to budget for additional things that come up.

 

[RivennHewn]

Did he field measure, or was he going off plans.

If he measured and missed, it's on him.

If he was looking at a plan that had elevations on it..........

 

[roscoe2000]

Not good....to be asking for more money so early into the work. I would say, cut your losses now and get a new contractor. It would be one thing if they started excavation and found some hidden conditions. But the grade should have been apparent when they bidded the job.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Jump off their boat! NOW!! I will bet there is more expense headed your way!

Capt. Chrysler

 

[RivennHewn]

Is your job fixed cost, or T & M?

 

[C96]

Unfortunately, there are a few scumbag contractors that do business this way. Go in low on a bid, and then claim unforeseen issues / problems. Their counting on the homeowners’ ignorance with regards to construction procedures / practices and take advantage of it (don’t get me wrong, not all do this, but some do).

In this case, the difference in grade elevation was obvious and for anyone to see. For your contractor to have overlooked this simply shows inexperience and / or plain carelessness (not someone I would want building for me).

On the other hand, maybe he was fully aware and….

Since the garage cannot be constructed as per the contractual agreement and this person seems to be a bit flighty, I would take this opportunity as a way out by making a written request for a 100% refund of the deposit.

 

[Mustang51js]

Get your money back, in fact I wouldn't have even given a deposit until he was ready to start. Have seen a lot of people get beat out of their deposit and seems like the legal system does nothing about it.

 

[ebasista]

Where in KY are you building? I'm in the Bowling Green area and had my garage built 4-5 years ago.

 

[Leevon]

Deposit? Red Flag #1. Get it back, and find somebody you can trust and communicate with.

 

[383]

I've been building and estimating for over 20 years, and it is difficult to judge the amount of slope accurately just by eyeballing it. That being said, I wouldn't think of giving a price that included a foundation without putting a laser on it. I may be wrong, but it seems like you will be in for a lot of headaches if you go with this builder. I would get out while the getting is good.

 

[Cobra5150]

If you come up with the extra $$ here there will definitely be more "surprises" as the build goes along. Sounds like GC and concrete guy have worked this before, thousands extra and an "unbiased" opinion suggests you offer to split the difference....right.
Get your money and tell them to pound sand. This garage will never get finshed with this GC.

 

[383]

Deposit? Red Flag #1. Get it back, and find somebody you can trust and communicate with.

We ask for a deposit when the contract is signed, usually around 10% of the contract price. There are a lot of materials that have to be special ordered for most jobs (trusses, roof and siding metal cut to length, for example), and if the owner changes their mind you are out of luck. That is one advantage of going with a contractor with an actual place of business, instead of someone that works out of a truck. I can't hide from my customers, they know where to find me. I can't take the deposit, then disappear.

 

[90limited]

Is your job fixed cost, or T & M?

Fixed cost per the contract...

 

[90limited]

Where in KY are you building? I'm in the Bowling Green area and had my garage built 4-5 years ago.

I am in Crestwood. Near Louisville.

 

[R6 Racer]

I'm seeing a trend here!

Not the way to start out, .....

....If you go ahead with this guy, you can count on other "news" that will take money from your pocket.

not the way to do business.

I would move on as well, not so much for the additional cost but for bring a pain to get a hold of. I won't hire someone that doesn't return calls or disappears for weeks.

You have to budget for additional things that come up.

Not good...

...to be asking for more money so early into the work. I would say, cut your losses now and get a new contractor. It would be one thing if they started excavation and found some hidden conditions. But the grade should have been apparent when they bidded the job.

Jump off their boat! NOW!! I will bet there is more expense headed your way!

Capt. Chrysler

Unfortunately, there are a few scumbag contractors that do business this way. Go in low on a bid, and then claim unforeseen issues / problems. Their counting on the homeowners’ ignorance with regards to construction procedures / practices and take advantage of it (don’t get me wrong, not all do this, but some do)...

...I would take this opportunity as a way out by making a written request for a 100% refund of the deposit.

Get your money back, in fact I wouldn't have even given a deposit until he was ready to start. Have seen a lot of people get beat out of their deposit and seems like the legal system does nothing about it.

Deposit? Red Flag #1. Get it back, and find somebody you can trust and communicate with.

I've been building and estimating for over 20 years,....
....I would get out while the getting is good.

.....Sounds like GC and concrete guy have worked this before, thousands extra and an "unbiased" opinion suggests you offer to split the difference....right.
Get your money and tell them to pound sand.....

So I'll say it too...
GET OUT NOW! While you still can!

Steve

 

[PugetDude]

Good luck getting your deposit back.
I'm betting this thread has legs...

 

[Bordeauxman]

It sounds like you may be lined up for one headache after another but $22k for a garage that size is a fraction of what we're spending in NY. What was the second place estimate? That might tell you to eat the $3k or 50% of the $3k or to move on.

 

[James E]

I've got to go with the group on this one. The guy has taken a deposit, has been difficult to contact and at the very first stage of construction, before any dirt has been disturbed, the guy is telling you he needs more money.

Sometimes contractors have unforeseen items that need to be paid for, and sometimes those items are not his fault and you have to come out of pocket. When a contractor is asking for more money between when he signs the contract and when he breaks ground, you've got a problem.

Get your money back and try again. You're already unhappy with the guy, so the worst thing you can do at this point is continue to work with him just because you're in a hurry to get the job done.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

Amen to the above.

 

[Garage Dog]

Here is a different spin on your situation: Contractor who bid the garage in January has very little business in the middle of the winter and really sharpens his pencil because he wants the job and figures he can get it done during his slow time. But the weather is terrible over the winter and he can't get the job done during his slow time.

Now spring is here the contractor has plenty of business, materials have gone up a tad and your garage isn't as profitable as the backlog of summer work he bid this spring...

Price seems low, maybe contractor is just looking for a way to get out of his contract and move on as well.

BTW - the $3,000 to raise the grade by the 3" grade change at the back corner claimed by the excavator also seems high. Around here that should buy you about 8 truckloads+ of class 5 crushed lime. So splitting the difference might mean you are really paying full ticket for their oversight.

How many bids did you get on the garage? What were the other bids then?

Good luck.

GD

 

[ford33]

You are having problems before the work even starts. Ask for the deposit back and find another contractor to bid and do the work.

 

[90limited]

I got four bids for the work.

- 76k (don't ask "friend" of the family)
- 32k
- 22.8k one I contracted
- 20k

I choose this guy because he gave me names of folks that used him, which I contacted and also went on site and saw a garage that was being built. I feel that I did my do diligence. I told him that I wanted to discuss in person and he is supposed to be here this afternoon. If a no show I have his home address and will start camping in his driveway.........

 

[stage20]

same guy bid thats doing the work or is this a gc that bid and sent his sub out to do the work?

either way, if you cant get your deposit back, its money well spent to keep them gone.

i bought an enclosed trailer and lost my thousand dollar deposit because it was the biggest POS ever built.... and it was brand new. they just put the wheels and tires on it and washed it up for me.....

 

[onewheat]

I am in Crestwood. Near Louisville.

I'm just up the street in Ballardsville - through Crestwood almost every day. It was probably my builder here that gave you the $70k estimate.

 

[90limited]

same guy bid thats doing the work or is this a gc that bid and sent his sub out to do the work?

either way, if you cant get your deposit back, its money well spent to keep them gone.

He is a GC, has a concrete sub, electric, brick, has his own crew frame and roof.

 

[90limited]

Well... GC showed up today on time and we discussed the issue. Told him I was not happy and why. He said he understood and offered me a full refund. Said he would eat the building permit and the what little sight work labor has already happened. Told me that he already ordered the trusses, but was pretty sure he could get that canceled. Apologized again said that he has been doing this 30 years and never missed eyeballing an elevation this bad.

Long story short, my gut says to trust the guy (hope it doesn't bite me) and told him to proceed with the project. And yes, it is costing me an extra 1500. The fact that he was willing to eat money and time spent and offer a full refund of the deposit did a lot to help me make this decision..... I trusted my gut on this one. So far, that gut feeling rarely let me down. Hope this is not one of those rare times.

 

[mbatarga]

Good luck - hope it works out for you.

 

[carterbeauford]

the chapter on contractors should be required reading before starting any sort of project.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

I don't like it. I was a self employed Contractor for years. I would have had to eat the difference for my screw up. I worked by contracts, and if I screwed up it was mine. (And it happened more than once) If nothing else, my personal ethics, as well as the law would not permit me to raise the price for a blatant oversight.

 

[joes169]

Lastly, I am now told that I will have to have a floating floor vs a floor that is tied into the block/footer....

I do foundations like this all the time, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out why they can't build a floor ledge into the top course? We do it all the time, regardless of the wall height, or how high the wall will be. As a matter of fact, resting the floor on top of the wall is the BEST approach for taller foundation walls with un-balanced fill........

As for the price, I have no idea how anyone can possibly build that much garage for that little. Good for you, though......

 

[truckman5000]

Unfortunately, there are a few scumbag contractors that do business this way. Go in low on a bid, and then claim unforeseen issues / problems. Their counting on the homeowners’ ignorance with regards to construction procedures / practices and take advantage of it (don’t get me wrong, not all do this, but some do).

In this case, the difference in grade elevation was obvious and for anyone to see. For your contractor to have overlooked this simply shows inexperience and / or plain carelessness (not someone I would want building for me).

On the other hand, maybe he was fully aware and….

Since the garage cannot be constructed as per the contractual agreement and this person seems to be a bit flighty, I would take this opportunity as a way out by making a written request for a 100% refund of the deposit.

Yah, or he bid it low to get the work. If he had none. Now he has work, and the job will "cost" him to do it.

Your using him to build. Get a whole job, up to date quote. That he has to stick to. Because of this matter.
The problem for me, is ill give a quote a year ago. And then the customer wants the job done. Product costs change so much, that a quote is only good for 30 days.

 

[nehog]

So I contract with a guy to build ...

Personally...

You say you have a contract. However it is not an enforceable contract, there were errors and generally the law won't allow you to take advantage of the other party based on their making errors.

My suggestion is to cancel the original contract, get all your money back if you've paid any, and start over. And make sure the new contractor does his groundwork, and measuring, etc., before he creates a contract. Make sure the new contact covers contingencies such as errors and omissions.

 

[Cougar]

What kind of wall are they planning for the 6' drop area.
Been a few threads on here about problems with not doing that correctly.

 

[Toolfool]

Subscribed.

 

[90limited]

What kind of wall are they planning for the 6' drop area.
Been a few threads on here about problems with not doing that correctly.

Split face block, filled with concrete, re-bar both vertical and horizontal. I was thinking of getting them to do 12" block up to the floor level and then switch to three rows of 8" so the floor rest on the block walls. Only concern is if the fill settles, the slab is now tied to the wall and cannot settle without cracking......

Speaking of the fill, the plan is to cut lifts into the dirt around 12" changes, fill with rock and water it down between loads... said they would compact with the large Case skid steer. I am thinking there needs to be more compacting then that...???

 

[RivennHewn]

Watering is NOT compaction!

Driving a skidsteer over it is not compaction either.

Jumping jack - Good for about 12"

Plate compactor - Good for about 4"

If you lay down more than that you need a hoe-pac.

 

[ebasista]

I wish you the best of luck. I hope you guys have an updated signed contract in place. There is way too much waiting to go wrong. He bid way to low and now you're on the hook. How do you have payment arranged as this goes on?