Contractor's Work Quality

[redrunner]

How has your contractor's quality of work been. I have had two different contractors for my current build. Both are known for doing good work.

The dirt contractor took three tries to get the building site level. Messed up digging the 42" deep frost footings. All of this took over 25 days to complete.

Because of the dirt contractor mess up I had to switch to pan forms for the concrete walls 4' high. When the contractor pulled the pans off, you can see where he started the next load of concrete. I have three areas in the wall that did not have any concrete around some pipes for the pex tubing. These are on the side that faces my house. He patched two additional holes with some cheap vinyl concrete patch and did not even bother to match it with a striker to make it even look somewhat like the pan formed walls. Tons of large pock marks on all down the entire wall facing the house.

On that note any ideas on how to patch the concrete to make it look good so I can stand to look at it without becoming pissed?

 

[blue dog]

Could you have a stucco contractor do a steel trowel coat on the entire stem wall. They could dry pack and smooth out the bad spots first and you could add a color of your choice to the steel trowel to match the finish of the rest of your job.
Tell the contractor that did the forms and pour that you are dissatisfied in the finish and you would like to know what he is going to do to make it right. You have the all mighty power, the check book.
Good luck

 

[skiingman]

Don't you have some sort of performance clause in your contract with your contract-or?

People will, in general, do the poorest job they can get away with doing.

 

[brownbagg]

doesnt matter if there a clause. because there are the building codes and something like that will not pass county building code. But yes, hire someone to fix it and take it out of the contractor money

 

[blkhonda1991]

doesnt matter if there a clause. because there are the building codes and something like that will not pass county building code. But yes, hire someone to fix it and take it out of the contractor money

aesthetics arent a code issue, so unless there are deficiencies in the actual structure of the wall the town is not going to care, with that said get the concrete guy back out and tell him you are unhappy with the finish and to fix it

 

[redrunner]

Anyone ever use Dryvit on poured walls? I have posted a few picks of the work. First one is my house with pan forms the others are the new work.

 

[blue dog]

Dryvit is a good product, it is best applied by being sprayed and you would still need to dry pack and float the bad areas so that the finish is all one plane and does not look like a patch. This is a simple solution and cheaper then a steel trowel finish. At this point it has to do with the look of the finish you are looking for.
Good luck

 

[Zeke]

Look up concrete "sacking" on the Net. It's about the only thing you can do at this point.

 

[RivennHewn]

Dryvit is a ****** product. Sacking will fill the voids, but won't look anywhere near what the panels left.

What was the understanding you had with the contractor? How does your contract read?

That is not 'workman' like at all.

I had a contractor pull up a 38 yd pour because of a botched finish. Don't be afraid of going against his bond to get what you paid for.

If he doesn't cooperate, get an attorney.

 

[redrunner]

I just sent the email to the lawyer. I wanted his slant on it before proceeding. I also have a construction bond so I hope that the contractor can't get to my bond!

 

[ConCretin]

Hate to say it but there is no way to make that concrete right. It will be impossible to match the color and finish with any technique I know of.

I'm not sure how widespread it is but the concrete should be removed and replaced. Every concrete contractor has an occasional oops - the good ones rip them out and replace them.

 

[RivennHewn]

Hate to say it but there is no way to make that concrete right. It will be impossible to match the color and finish with any technique I know of.

I'm not sure how widespread it is but the concrete should be removed and replaced. Every concrete contractor has an occasional oops - the good ones rip them out and replace them.

Ditto

 

[Zeke]

Well, sacking may not be a panacea, but every tilt up and every concrete bridge I have seen erected got sacked and they look good to me. Weren't you gonna paint the walls anyway?

 

[ConCretin]

Well, sacking may not be a panacea, but every tilt up and every concrete bridge I have seen erected got sacked and they look good to me. Weren't you gonna paint the walls anyway?

Sacking works fine on a smooth finish but the OP has a patterned surface that is severely honeycombed. I'm afraid sacking will just result in a finish that looks more like blobs than bricks. You could certainly let the contractor try but you shouldn't have to accept defective work.

 

[brownbagg]

honeycombing is a structural defect with concrete. i have torn down many of walls due to honeycombing and it is in the building codes. I got it right here beside me

 

[blue dog]

Dryvit is a ****** product. Sacking will fill the voids, but won't look anywhere near what the panels left.

I have done many jobs with dryvit and never had an issue, what makes you say it is a ****** product? Sto is an other product that could be used, again, it will take some floating of the areas that did not get vibrated enough first, and the entire area that will be exposed needs to be covered in a spray application, and you would never know there was a problem.

And i would like to add that i like Milt, i seem to agree with just about everything he has to offer to members in need of advice. I can tell he has been around the block.

 

[RivennHewn]

I have done many jobs with dryvit and never had an issue, what makes you say it is a ****** product? Sto is an other product that could be used, again, it will take some floating of the areas that did not get vibrated enough first, and the entire area that will be exposed needs to be covered in a spray application, and you would never know there was a problem.

And i would like to add that i like Milt, i seem to agree with just about everything he has to offer to members in need of advice. I can tell he has been around the block.

A lot of what I do is repair work on buildings due to failures associated with Dryvit.

I might be one of the few that love condo associations. They keep me busy.

I didn't mean any disrespect to Milt. Sorry if he took it that way.

 

[Gary S]

I built my garage myself, dirt to roof, so I can't complain about the contractor without kicking myself.
I'm too old to fight with contractors anymore, so I do it my way and live with the outcome.

 

[blue dog]

A lot of what I do is repair work on buildings due to failures associated with Dryvit.

.

I am a builder and have been for 25 years, my jobs range from full home remodels to mixed use to commercial buildings, in the handful of jobs where this product has been specced by an architect or developer, there has never been an issue.

 

[RivennHewn]

I am a builder and have been for 25 years, my jobs range from full home remodels to mixed use to commercial buildings, in the handful of jobs where this product has been specced by an architect or developer, there has never been an issue.

Sure, if you're talking about a one year warranty. What about 5 years down the road?

It has gotten better, especially if you have a contractor that is installing per details from an envelope engineer, with the engineer monitoring the process.

How often does that happen on a residential garage?

 

[redrunner]

I built my first garage from dirt to roof myself. The problem with this one was it needed some fill in the building site. That caused me to hire a dirt contractor. You know trucks, access to dirt, bobcat and packer. We have a major flood taking place in my area. Big bucks from FEMA or a small, by his terms, pain of a job like mine....what would most of us do if we were the contractors? Me, I would take the big money and run. He did the same thing leaving me in a spot.

The concrete guy was hired to fix the mess up the dirt guy made when digging the footings incorrectly. The footings were poured thinking they were the correct size. The footings were 6" to short on two sides. Using the pan forms the contractor was going to tie footings that were wrong to the wall and pour an additional 8 inches to the footing to provide support to the remainder of the wall area.

This led to the mess of the concrete being too dry when it was pumped into the slip forms. The contractor wanted to avoid the possibility of a blow out of the footings if the mix was thinned to much. I asked the contractor about vibrating the forms and he said he never does that and has never had a problem he was also worried about the footings with vibrating. Again what am I to believe....me who has never poured with slip forms or the guy who does it every day for a living?

We can up with a new name for the place last night the F%$k up shed. If someone can f-up the job, have I got a place for your work! I am looking forward to the remainder which I will have total control over every thing. Sorry to say but so far the contractors have been worthless and I still need the plumbing done. Got to love the city fathers that protect the trades here!

 

[Rosco]

I will only add that Dryvit is a great looking product, but here in the south it causes major issues after about 8-10 years with moisture build up. In fact, you wont find a contractor down here who will use it, and most termite companies will not bond a house that has it installed.

It is possible that the material gets a bad rap from improper installation, but at least here locally (Georgia) it is a no-no.

 

[blkhonda1991]

I built my first garage from dirt to roof myself. The problem with this one was it needed some fill in the building site. That caused me to hire a dirt contractor. You know trucks, access to dirt, bobcat and packer. We have a major flood taking place in my area. Big bucks from FEMA or a small, by his terms, pain of a job like mine....what would most of us do if we were the contractors? Me, I would take the big money and run. He did the same thing leaving me in a spot.

The concrete guy was hired to fix the mess up the dirt guy made when digging the footings incorrectly. The footings were poured thinking they were the correct size. The footings were 6" to short on two sides. Using the pan forms the contractor was going to tie footings that were wrong to the wall and pour an additional 8 inches to the footing to provide support to the remainder of the wall area.

This led to the mess of the concrete being too dry when it was pumped into the slip forms. The contractor wanted to avoid the possibility of a blow out of the footings if the mix was thinned to much. I asked the contractor about vibrating the forms and he said he never does that and has never had a problem he was also worried about the footings with vibrating. Again what am I to believe....me who has never poured with slip forms or the guy who does it every day for a living?

We can up with a new name for the place last night the F%$k up shed. If someone can f-up the job, have I got a place for your work! I am looking forward to the remainder which I will have total control over every thing. Sorry to say but so far the contractors have been worthless and I still need the plumbing done. Got to love the city fathers that protect the trades here!

i would have had him rip up the footings and re pour, if i am understanding this correctly he just poured an additional "footing" next to the already poured footing? did he tie them together with rebar?

 

[SuperSocket]

I built my first garage from dirt to roof myself. The problem with this one was it needed some fill in the building site. That caused me to hire a dirt contractor. You know trucks, access to dirt, bobcat and packer. We have a major flood taking place in my area. Big bucks from FEMA or a small, by his terms, pain of a job like mine....what would most of us do if we were the contractors? Me, I would take the big money and run. He did the same thing leaving me in a spot.

The concrete guy was hired to fix the mess up the dirt guy made when digging the footings incorrectly. The footings were poured thinking they were the correct size. The footings were 6" to short on two sides. Using the pan forms the contractor was going to tie footings that were wrong to the wall and pour an additional 8 inches to the footing to provide support to the remainder of the wall area.

This led to the mess of the concrete being too dry when it was pumped into the slip forms. The contractor wanted to avoid the possibility of a blow out of the footings if the mix was thinned to much. I asked the contractor about vibrating the forms and he said he never does that and has never had a problem he was also worried about the footings with vibrating. Again what am I to believe....me who has never poured with slip forms or the guy who does it every day for a living?

We can up with a new name for the place last night the F%$k up shed. If someone can f-up the job, have I got a place for your work! I am looking forward to the remainder which I will have total control over every thing. Sorry to say but so far the contractors have been worthless and I still need the plumbing done. Got to love the city fathers that protect the trades here!

Sounds like he already did it wrong and not even to your spec. You should call an inspector.

 

[JMURiz]

My GC was terrible.
- He underestimated his concrete bid (lead to the concrete company trying to get money from me)
- He almost killed himself while trying to take down an oak tree (touched the top wire, lucky for him he was hanging from a rope and not grounded)
- His framing company was fast, but I had to re-frame the back wall when I could push on it and shake the garage door at the front of the structure.

Basically after my experience, I've decided it's cheaper to buy new tools and learn to DIY the correct way.

 

[ConCretin]

This led to the mess of the concrete being too dry when it was pumped into the slip forms. The contractor wanted to avoid the possibility of a blow out of the footings if the mix was thinned to much. I asked the contractor about vibrating the forms and he said he never does that and has never had a problem he was also worried about the footings with vibrating. Again what am I to believe....me who has never poured with slip forms or the guy who does it every day for a living?

I'm a concrete contractor by trade so I feel for the guy but he agreed to do the job and has an obligation to provide an acceptable product. Forms have to be built to with stand the pressure they will be subjected to...period. If that pressure included a properly vibrated wall, the forms should accomidate it.

Not vibrating an exposed wall because he was worried about a footing blow out is poor planning on his part. I hate to sound like a hardass but if it we me, it would already be fixed.

 

[blue dog]

Sure, if you're talking about a one year warranty. What about 5 years down the road?

It has gotten better, especially if you have a contractor that is installing per details from an envelope engineer, with the engineer monitoring the process.

How often does that happen on a residential garage?

Have never used it in a residential garage application, but the principal is the same, if you have a competent sub installing said product, there will be no problem. You are basing this off of jobs that have been done poorly to begin with, thus needing repair.

From the picture the op posted, it is obvious that the mud was not vibrated enough, it happens, I would not say the it is compromised and am only offering a few suggestions to remedy the situation for the op. I still feel that steel trowel application is the easiest and fastest remedy.

 

[hdshinn]

(snip ....), hire someone to fix it and take it out of the contractor money

In my humble yet closely held opinion, you need to give the contractor a chance to remedy the situation to your satisfaction. Your satisfaction depending on what the original specifications called for in the first place. Good luck hiring a third party and getting any money out of the original contractor. If there's still money 'owed' to him you can and should withhold it until the work is acceptable.

Just my way of doing things. Your mileage may vary.

 

[redrunner]

I have the building inspector coming out on Friday to take a look at it. I have a friend checking with someone on some ideas to fix it.

I told the contractor today I want the thing replace and he went off on me about it being my fault for the problems not his, told me again he never vibrates any thing. I told him that the first truck's concrete was way to dry and he said that was because of the footing and to prevent blow out.

I have talked to a certified testing company and they said code for this type of application is vibrating every 12" max. I told this to the contractor and he said he never heard of that. I told him that does mean the code does not exist.

I was also told by the contractor that this is what I get and oh he would some over someone to paint it or something to that effect to make it look better! He also told me that my attitude is what is keeping other contractors from working for me.....Gotta love that response! Do the job right and we won't have any problems.

The whole thing ended with him hanging up on me. I guess I got my answer about what he thinks about his responsibility for his work.

Then he calls back and wants the meeting with the inspector yet today, this was at 12:30 and I was on the way to work. Told him no way the inspector needed a 24 hour notice.

I think I will meet with the inspector first and let him know the outcome or better yet let the inspector call him and deliver the news.

 

[blue dog]

Has he been paid in full at this point, or do you owe him any money on his contract ?

It is his responsibility to perform his job according to code, if he had vibrated it in the first place, this would not have happened. Remember the building code is the bare minimum standard.

If you owe this guy money, i would give him one chance to make it right, after that i would hire someone else to fix it and deduct it from what you owe the original sub. Then tell him to pound sand.

 

[redrunner]

The building inspector came and looked at it.....said it would pass with some small repairs to a few area. But his final statement about seals the looks of it. "That is one **** ugly finish job from those pans!" With that said that covers that part.

We talked about siding the thing about 42" to cover up the ugly. That looks like the way it will turn out. The contractor just wants to paint it. That is not going to happen at my house. I hate to paint and I know that they would do another outstanding job just like the concrete work. It will take about $2200 for materials to side it to match the rest of the building. First will be the water proofing. The walls will need to be need to have firing strips put on for the starter strip and nailing strips Then insulation to hold the siding to keep it from warping.

I have not figured out what to charge this guy for labor to do all this work. I am betting he has another cow!

 

[blkhonda1991]

Your wall sits 42"above grade?

 

[chickenhauler]

Wow. I wouldn't let the guy that poured that do a single thing for me, unless it was demolishing it and doing it right. Unless that pic is of an isolated spot, you're never going to get a finish out of that to match your house. The aggregate was too big for those forms, on top of the mix being too dry and lack of vibration.

I personally would parge it. You can do it yourself, and it'll only take a few hours. If you let it go with all the water collecting honeycombs, freezing and thawing will destroy that wall.

 

[blue dog]

Can we see some better pictures of the effected area's ?

 

[Tarheelgarage]

That contractor sounds like a flake and will probably bolt on you without completing or repairing his piss poor work.
Hope you have some money held back from that crook.

 

[ibedayank]

Redrunner ...
what a **** job
I would push to have it ripped out and repoured
What don't they know what a cement ******** is for?
If they had used one you would't have that rough finish it would have filled all the holes and worked out the airbubbles

 

[redrunner]

I just got off the phone with the contractor. He still maintains the walls look ok. I told him I'm not going to live with that ugly wall as is or painted, which he recommended. I priced out the cost of the siding, water proof coating, firing strips, insulation and pieces parts at about $2200 for materials 7 squares and would charge him the same amount for my labor to drill the concrete for the firing strips, water proof it with some good water proofing, and putting insulation behind the siding to keep it straight for a total of $4400. His total bill was almost $7000. He has paid the concrete bill, pumper truck bill, his labor help at their hourly rate plus any other materials he put into the job. He is going to put a mechanics lean on my house on Tuesday. As it is now, he will get nothing until we have our day in court!

I hate dealing with contractor's who don't care about their workmanship.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

I'm not sure if it would help you remedy this lousy result, but is this guy licensed and bonded? He's putting a lien on you, what can you do to him (legally) to change his attitude? Keep us posted please.

 

[jr_mints]

I was a contractor for over 20 years and we did all of our own cocrete work just to avoid these types of problems. Concrete work is a low margin, easy business to enter (doesn't take much money to get in it) and for these reasons and several others most concrete contractors don't have the financial wherewithal to fix the problems that always occur. If you haven't paid him......don't. Any contractor doing this type of work knows to vibrate the concrete, then wreck the forms and rub the finish. If he says he's never vibrated cocrete before you are dealing with an amateur and I personally would't pay him a cent until he fixed it to my complete satisfaction.

 

[jr_mints]

Bond around the lien and tell him you will see him in court. Take a million pictures and probably some video, document every conversation you have with him and hire a junkyard dog for an attorney, you can win this but you must be diligent.