Convert 3.5" round workbox to outlet

[aragno]

I have a porcelain light bulb holder in my garage ceiling.
I wish to plug in 2 LED lights (65 watts each).
This light is on a single switch.
I want to plug in the 2 x LED lights I have and I'm happy to install an outlet for the sole purpose of these 2 lights.

I have taken this photo inside the workbox but unsure how to tackle this one.
As the box is shallow, I feel I should remove the workbox and install a new one that is deeper.
What workbox should I use?
What outlet and adapter plates/covers?
Any specific outlet I should select?
I am unsure of what to do with the 3 sets of wires + ground.
1 x red
2 x white (together on the light)
2 x black (capped together)
2 x ground

I'd like to the option to install the porcelain light when/if we move.


Once I have this wired in, can I install a GFCI switch like this next to the existing wall switch?

If so, i'll separately post about how to correctly wire this next to the switch.

 

[kbuhagiar]

Would this work?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N5FR/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[aragno]

Would this work?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00002N5FR/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I considered it but it makes me a bit nervous as it didn't appear well-made with respect to the wiring and how the ground connected.

I was hoping for a bit better setup.

 

[no704]

 

[dscheidt]

You can get a listed receptacle and plate combination for a 4" box. (There are also covers available without the receptacle, but they're not code compliant, because code requires at least two screws. The listed assemblies use a rivet.) Either replace the box with a proper one, or get a round back 1900 extension box, depending on your tolerance for things looking like they're done by a hack, and put your receptacle in that.

You can use a dead front gfci like you show, but you'd have to make sure the neutral is in the switch box.

 

[The Cobbler]

They don't have grounds

 

[WillyBoy]

I may be missing something here but it seems like the key piece that's needed is a 3-1/2 inch round fixture cover punched for a duplex receptacle.

 

[rust in the eye]

Why a GFCI for a ceiling mounted fixture?
A lamp holder with a receptacle show in post #2 seems a fine choice from here. Good ones will come from an electrical supply house, the ones at big orange etc. are garbage. I'd imagine the ones you can't lay a hand on until you own them from the jungle to be as bad or worse.

 

[aragno]

I managed to install this in similar fashion as the light was wired (2 white on one side, red on another, and connected the ground wires (previously not in use with the light bulb holder).
The switch is working and the outlets are now working.
my round box was a 4" and I was able to accommodate this. I will add a 1/2" space ring to give a little more space, but for now, it's functional.

Leviton 15 amps 125 V Brown Outlet 5-15R 1 pk Mfr# 05042-000 - Ace Hardware

Commercial Grade - Leviton's line of Heavy-Duty Specification Grade receptacles are designed and manufactured to withstand the most demanding environments. Available in a wide variety of configurations, including isolated ground, tamper-resistant, etc., these Commercial Grade devices are the...

www.acehardware.com

This circuit/breaker provides power to this former garage ceiling light, and 2 ceiling lights in nearby rooms.
This garage light was operated by a switch on the wall. Next I would like to install a GFCI near the switch in the garage since code requires a GFCI to be on the outlet circuits in a garage, regardless of location/position.

 

[dscheidt]

I may be missing something here but it seems like the key piece that's needed is a 3-1/2 inch round fixture cover punched for a duplex receptacle.

They don't exist. a 3.5 box isn't big enough, a 4" is. As I noted earlier, most of the outlet covers available are not code compliant, as code now requires the receptacle to be held by two screws. There are listed assemblies of a cover and an outlet.

 

[sparky 1971]

Why a GFCI for a ceiling mounted fixture?

Because NEC 210.8(A)(2) says that all receptacles in a garage are to be GFCI protected. There is no exception for ceilings.

 

[aragno]

Because NEC 210.8(A)(2) says that all receptacles in a garage are to be GFCI protected. There is no exception for ceilings.

Can I install a blank-face GFCI next to the switch that controls that former light, which is now a switched outlet?

 

[dscheidt]

Can I install a blank-face GFCI next to the switch that controls that former light, which is now a switched outlet?

Maybe:

You can use a dead front gfci like you show, but you'd have to make sure the neutral is in the switch box.

 

[Shiftless]

Can I install a blank-face GFCI next to the switch that controls that former light, which is now a switched outlet?

Seems to me that that would make you code compliant. (As long as there is a neutral in that box)

 

[Shiftless]

Would it be kosher to use the existing screw holes to screw on a 4 inch square box? After that was up there, you could pull a Black, White, and Ground wire out through the middle punch out hole of the 4 inch box and from there wire in one or even two duplex receptacles.
Wire in a dead front GFCI in your switch box or even a GFCI duplex receptacle in that box. Then you’ll be good to go.

 

[aragno]

Would it be kosher to use the existing screw holes to screw on a 4 inch square box? After that was up there, you could pull a Black, White, and Ground wire out through the middle punch out hole of the 4 inch box and from there wire in one or even two duplex receptacles.
Wire in a dead front GFCI in your switch box or even a GFCI duplex receptacle in that box. Then you’ll be good to go.

I think the GFCI test and reset have to be accessible from the floor and no equipment requires to access it. That’s why I was thinking to install it next to the switch.

Based on the comment from @dscheidt it seems I need to open the switch and see if a neutral is present. I’m unsure what I’m looking for but I will snap a photo and see what I can learn.

 

[sparky 1971]

Can I install a blank-face GFCI next to the switch that controls that former light, which is now a switched outlet?

Yes, it's already been stated that a neutral is required. Cut it out to a two gang box, if it's already a two gand, make it a three gang and so forth.

I think the GFCI test and reset have to be accessible from the floor and no equipment requires to access it. That’s why I was thinking to install it next to the switch.

Correct.

Based on the comment from @dscheidt it seems I need to open the switch and see if a neutral is present. I’m unsure what I’m looking for but I will snap a photo and see what I can learn.

you are looking for two or more white wires connected together and not to anything else in the box.

 

[couch67]

I may have missed it, but just put a gfci breaker on the garage light circuit.

 

[cybrdyke]

I may be missing something here but it seems like the key piece that's needed is a 3-1/2 inch round fixture cover punched for a duplex receptacle.

I dont believe a receptacle will mount into that box so there might not be a cover either. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recently tried to find one and failed.
CD

 

[aragno]

Yes, it's already been stated that a neutral is required. Cut it out to a two gang box, if it's already a two gand, make it a three gang and so forth.

Correct.

you are looking for two or more white wires connected together and not to anything else in the box.

I've removed the cover and it is a two (2) gang box with a second switch operating an outdoor light.
The switch on the left (red and black wires) is the switch controlling this new outlet. This is what I want to protect with a dead-face GFCI.
Inside I find 3 white wires all connected together with a wire nut. Is this what I am looking for and which ones of the three (3) do we need to use? The box is a cramped mess but I can look in and figure out which white wire is in the same bundle/romex, etc.
Let me know and I'll get on with it and post an update.





This is the wiring I found in the ceiling. The ground is now connected to the outlet I installed. I attached the red to the "brass" and the white to the silver screws on the other side of the outlet (one wire per screw) and left the "jumper plate/tab" in place.

I may have missed it, but just put a gfci breaker on the garage light circuit.

That's where I'm headed but I need to figure out which wires and if I have everything I need to make this work like it should.

 

[dave*99]

This will be easier to diagram if we know whether the power from the circuit breaker enters the box with 2 switches (and continues to the ceiling light) OR does the power enter the ceiling light from the circuit breaker first and then continue to the switch box.

It appears BOTH the ceiling light and switch boxes are in the middle of things. Unswitched power continues on to another device somewhere. Making this work right will require the load side of the new GFCI be connected to all loads downstream of the GFCI. Point being the neutral on the load side can only be connected to loads supplied by the load side of the GFCI.

Thinking like this:

Breaker---------Switches------------ceiling light----------another unswitched load

OR

Breaker------ceiling light----------Switches------------another unswitched load

It's common to conserve wire, so I'll ask: Which is closer to the breaker? The ceiling light or switch? It's a possible clue. A test light and some troubleshooting is the best way to know.

 

[aragno]

This will be easier to diagram if we know whether the power from the circuit breaker enters the box with 2 switches (and continues to the ceiling light) OR does the power enter the ceiling light from the circuit breaker first and then continue to the switch box.

It appears BOTH the ceiling light and switch boxes are in the middle of things. Unswitched power continues on to another device somewhere. Making this work right will require the load side of the new GFCI be connected to all loads downstream of the GFCI. Point being the neutral on the load side can only be connected to loads supplied by the load side of the GFCI.

Thinking like this:

Breaker---------Switches------------ceiling light----------another unswitched load

OR

Breaker------ceiling light----------Switches------------another unswitched load

It's common to conserve wire, so I'll ask: Which is closer to the breaker? The ceiling light or switch? It's a possible clue. A test light and some troubleshooting is the best way to know.

They are both fairly far away from the breaker box and the outlet in the ceiling is fairly close to the wall switch. The breaker box is on the other side of the house.

That breaker for the garage ceiling light/outlet also serves as the breaker for the utility room light and a dining room light.

How should I go about testing things? I have a Fluke multimeter if I’m told what to touch to test.