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Cooling needed

HOTFR8

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Castlemaine, Victoria. The Hot Rod Centre of Austr
Whilst most on this forum would be currently snowed in, I am suffering a heat wave with the last few days being over 40c ( about 102f I believe ).

What would any one suggest for cooling. I am looking for some thing like a roof based water cooler. Similar to this one below.

0.35C


My Shed is 60 x 30 but I do hope to expand later so I need something to cool that area.
 
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redsky49

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near the coast in eastern North Carolina
That looks like what we call in the colonies an evaporative cooler, or more commonly a swamp cooler. These function well in a dry environment, if water is available at an affordable price. High humidity greatly reduces their performance.

Where are you located? I have my weather data here at the computer.
 

kbs2244

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Most of Australia is pretty dry as well as hot.
A swamp cooler should be great if he has the water.
 
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HOTFR8

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Castlemaine, Victoria. The Hot Rod Centre of Austr
45c here yesterday. I am connected to the town water supply and have a good rain water collection with tanks.

Redsky 49 - if you read under the Avatar you will se my location.

kbs2244 - I hesitated to use the name swampy cooler as not all here would know what I mean.
 

redsky49

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near the coast in eastern North Carolina
Hi hot,
I am not from OZ so I have no references for your location. Got lots of US data, only a few from Aus.

Choose from the following:

Adledaile
Alice Springs
Brisbane
Cairns
Canberra
Darwin
Kalgoorlie
Laernmouth
Perth
Port Hedland
Sydney Airport
Townsville

There is a substantial difference in climatic conditions among these locations. Plus a little input for what you intend to do in this building would help.
 

go4dave

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Sep 18, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Las Vegas
Whilst most on this forum would be currently snowed in, I am suffering a heat wave with the last few days being over 40c ( about 102f I believe ).

What would any one suggest for cooling. I am looking for some thing like a roof based water cooler. Similar to this one below.

0.35C


My Shed is 60 x 30 but I do hope to expand later so I need something to cool that area.
-------- --------- -----------

I'd suggest not going roof top,,, and choose the side of the garage that gets shade the soonest during the day. Then cut a vent size hole into the garage from the outside. Run a short duct from the spout of the cooling unit to the inside of the garage... and you've got some great cold air blowing in. Put a "doghouse" around the whole unit (to give it shade) but keep it breathing, with good circulation, give it power, water... and your set. check it out. I've just started using/selling/renting these units in the S.E and S.W. they are affordable, compact, and convenient.
 

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HOTFR8

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Castlemaine, Victoria. The Hot Rod Centre of Austr
Hi hot,
I am not from OZ so I have no references for your location. Got lots of US data, only a few from Aus.

Choose from the following:

Adledaile
Alice Springs
Brisbane
Cairns
Canberra
Darwin
Kalgoorlie
Laernmouth
Perth
Port Hedland
Sydney Airport
Townsville

There is a substantial difference in climatic conditions among these locations. Plus a little input for what you intend to do in this building would help.

Sorry, None of the above are any where near me. Aust is a BIG place. In fact none of the above are even in the the same State. I am in Victoria in the Centre of the state near Bendigo or about an hours drive north from Melbourne.

South Aust and Victoria have had the heat wave this week with the Temps well into the 40c + (OUCH or why I want a cooler).

Adledaile Adelaide ? - South Aust
Alice Springs - Northern Territtory
Brisbane - Queensland
Cairns - North Queensland
Canberra - ACT
Darwin - Northern Territory
Kalgoorlie - Western Australia.
Laernmouth - You got me on this one... I think West Aust ? Your spelling has thrown me.
Perth - West Aust
Port Hedland - West Aust ( north west )
Sydney Airport - New South Wales.
Townsville - North Queensland.

-------- --------- -----------

I'd suggest not going roof top,,, and choose the side of the garage that gets shade the soonest during the day. Then cut a vent size hole into the garage from the outside. Run a short duct from the spout of the cooling unit to the inside of the garage... and you've got some great cold air blowing in. Put a "doghouse" around the whole unit (to give it shade) but keep it breathing, with good circulation, give it power, water... and your set. check it out. I've just started using/selling/renting these units in the S.E and S.W. they are affordable, compact, and convenient.

Thanks, Would not be an option as I have no suitable wall to mount my best option will be the roof as building is steel framed and has no way to mount anything like that on the side. The building is simply not desinged to have that type of cooler.

I have a wall on the West ( Shed is Colorbond Steel 60 x 30 with a 30 foot wall to the west and a 60 wall to the north ) I could mount it ( If it could be mounted on a wall ) on the west end but I plan later to extend another 12 feet and the west wall gets all the afternoon heat in the summer. I plan a Shop front for the business and a section to close off with a work Pit etc. seperate from the present workshop area on the west end at a later date. On the north face I could also mount it on a wall but at a later date I may add a lean to verandah type of area that I can park a truck under. As for the east end Council will not permit me to do anything as I must have a clean wall facing the neighbors ( read as much pain ).
 
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redsky49

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near the coast in eastern North Carolina
That should have been Learmonth. Sorry for the spelling errors.

I was going to "ball park" an equipment selection for you. These are not sized the same way as a conventional DX cooling system. Instead here are some general guidelines.

For those who have been following this thread, an evaporative cooling system does not have a compressor. Nor does it have refrigerant, condenser, expansion valve, evaporator coil, etc.

Instead the unit consists primarily of a supply air fan, a water absorbing mat, and a water regulating valve. [This is also the same description as a residential humidifier]. Upon a call for cooling, outdoor air is drawn into the unit by the fan, blown across the water soaked mat (where cooling takes place due to evaporation, or more accurately adiabatic cooling), and then discharged into the occupied space anywhere from 10-20 degrees cooler than the ambient temperature. Operating costs are typically anywhere from 30-70% less than standard air conditioning. Additionally, the weight of these units is about half that of standard roof top units, simplifying installation. So for areas such as the US southwest, where the relative humidity is typically low, these devices are often utilized. Higher humidity levels reduces the efficiency of these devices so that they are generally not used in other locales.

The downside of an evaporative cooler is that the conditioned supply air (and there is plenty of it) is entering the space at relatively high humidity levels. This prevents these units from being applied for office applications. I have used them successfully however, in warehouse and some light manufacturing facilities, and they are often seen in green houses where the added moisture is a benefit. Additionally, there are some units that have entered the market that are "indirect evaporative coolers" that utilize a heat exchanger, and thus reduce the moisture brought into the space. These indirect devices are the ones that are at the lower end of the efficiency scale, and are typically not seen in most light commercial jobs. I do not have experience with these.

I would be cautious about using these for a wood working applications as the increased humidity of the nearly saturated supply air will impact the stability of wood. Also this will affect paints and varnishes which may "blush" from the elevated moisture. So you have to be sure this is a good application for this technology.

As for the OP's needs (now that everyone else has nodded off), a very rough, long distance estimate for 1800 square feet would be, IMO, two rooftop-mounted units of about 5,000 cfm each, with a modest discharge duct at the bottom of each unit. Two units will reduce the roof loading, minimize the throw requirement for the air, and will provide some redundancy if one of the units is off line. Two smaller units may also have less visual impact. The design intent would be to achieve indoor dry bulb temperatures of about 80-85 degrees when outside temps approach 100 F.

Service requirements are simple. Maintain the air and water filters. Monitor for mold or mildew (Ligeonella likes these conditions). Fan should be designed for this application. Better units have a bleed down mechanism to remove minerals and dirt. Keep the sump pan clean.

The other concern is that you have to vent all the outside air that you have just brought into the space. I would suggest that you operate the units with a garage door opened at least 18". You can experiment with this or provide an automated relief air system. Your choice.

I hope this provides some guidance for you. You should have an actual load calculation performed by the vendor or a knowledgeable engineer or contractor. I also noticed that the big three no longer list evap coolers in their catalogs. You will have to go to a specialty manufacturer. I suspect that there are several in Australia to choose from.

Good luck with your project. Take pics and keep us informed.
 

go4dave

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Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Las Vegas
ahh,
then just use that unit inside,,,, roll it around. Go with the Big brother version. You don't have to mount it anywhere. It can go where you go. A garden hose,, and power. :pimpflash They work great,,, it gets to 120*F in Vegas,,,, and i've used mine as a roll around,, then i decided to place it outside, cut the hole, and duct the air in. :beer:
 

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HOTFR8

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Castlemaine, Victoria. The Hot Rod Centre of Austr
That should have been Learmonth. Sorry for the spelling errors.
OK We have two Learmonths One in Victoria and another in West Aust. It appears most of the places you have looked at are Airports so my guess you found Learmonth in WA. Google may help you get a better idea of my location.
Google Castlemaine
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castlemaine,_Victoria
-http://www.travelvictoria.com.au/castlemaine/
-http://www.castlemaine.org/
( I even get a mention on that last one ).


Good luck with your project. Take pics and keep us informed.
Thanks for the detail as to how they work. I do have one on the house and it works very well so I know one will work in my Shed. I am aware you need to have a place for the air to get out. Yes I will take photos.


ahh,
then just use that unit inside,,,, roll it around. Go with the Big brother version. You don't have to mount it anywhere. It can go where you go. A garden hose,, and power. :pimpflash They work great,,, it gets to 120*F in Vegas,,,, and i've used mine as a roll around,, then i decided to place it outside, cut the hole, and duct the air in. :beer:

WOW :beer:. I did not consider that idea. Still having it on the floor will take up a lot of space. I think the roof mount version is still the way for me to go. Space is a problem at the present and a reason why I plan to extend. I do have a very small unit on wheels I use just for my office but it has not managed in the heat wave. It is one you fill with ice and cold water.

Feed back so far from Brivis ( pic I posted above ) is that a compact roof unit will do the job. They refresh the water every so often and only need a good clean every year to wash out the dust.
 
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oldgoat

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Feb 7, 2006
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Location
Wichita Kansas
A place I worked at had swamp coolers mounted on the roof and we didn't have a problem with them. The best deal I heard about was a guy bought a house that had central heat and for the AC he had a radiator like out of a semi mounted in the attic with well water running through it and a fan that blew through the radiator. It fed the cooled air into the duct work for the heater. He said that it kept the house at least in the high 70's even during the hottest parts of the summer. The only problem he had was that the water ran out onto the yard making a mud hole that his boys loved to play in so he took it out. I asked him why he didn't just put down another well and drain the water back into it. If you have access to well water this might work out good because you don't have the humidity that comes with a swamp cooler.
 
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