Cordless tool platform?

[evintho]

I need to delve into the cordless world. The only cordless tool I have is a DeWalt 14.4 drill. Great tool but I've been through 2 sets of batteries over the years and they're dead again. Instead of spending $$ on new or rebuilt batts I'm thinking maybe it's time to upgrade to a quality platform where I can swap batts between several tools. Of course, I don't want to break the bank so I'll start with 1 or 2 tools and add to the collection slowly.

I'm a huge Milwaukee fan! I need some good recommendations on which models I should go for. 18v, 20v, Fuel? What's the difference? Weight is a factor but I need something that'll bust a pinion nut so lots of torque is required. Don't want to spend hours in front of the computer researching, so what say ye?

First off will be a cordless drill. I'd also like a 1/2" impact driver, recip saw and maybe a circular saw somewhere down the line. Lots of automotive work and some basic carpentry. I'm a junkyard hound so the impact driver and recip saw will be used a lot. Needless to say the drill will be used constantly. Opinions, please?

 

[franzdom]

I just jumped to Milwaukee. No 20V here, that's another brand.
Fuel is brushless, they take the same M18 batteries as non-Fuel. They are a lot more powerful.

Sounds like you want a Fuel drill, probably the heavy and expensive high torque Fuel impact and perhaps wait on the circular saw. They are supposedly developing a 7-1/4" one.

I opted for the smaller impact, M18 Fuel but not high torque, it's still enough for lug nuts but not really for much more. Make sure you don't get pin anvils unless that is your thing, all are available either way.
There are a lot of M18 impacts to choose from.

Also with the drill you can get hammer drill version or non. Most get the hammer option, I chose to get the plain 1/2" Fuel drill. Their newest charger does M18 & M12 (18V/12V) both.

 

[firebox40dash5]

If you're using it a bunch, the Fuel stuff is a no brainer to me. The battery life compared to a brushed tool is crazy. My M18 Fuel grinder and sawzall are actually useful tools, even in a shop with AC power available, which I never would have said about my old ones.

I got the M12 Fuel hammerdrill and impact, and powerwise I'd put both on par with 18v brushed tools. Plenty enough around the shop, but I might reconsider (or at least augment) if I were building a house. I also have the M18 Fuel 3/8 impact, which would be nice for junkyard runs. It'll at least run off most anything if you break it free, and can break most lug nuts free as well. If you want to crack a pinion nut without breaking it free by hand, I'd probably look to the big 1/2" gun... though I can't say I've tried with what I have, so maybe it would work too...

 

[6-Speed]

Milwaukee M18 is what I would recommend. I use several cordless platforms including M18, M12 and Craftsman C3. Milwaukee's M18 and M12 Fuel line are awesome tools.

 

[wildbill23c]

In reality, it doesn't matter which brand you buy, the batteries will eventually fail, and are expensive to replace, actually sometimes cheaper to buy another tool set to get new batteries, then you are stuck with a dozen battery chargers LOL.

I've had my Dewalt 18V XRP tool set for about 8 years now, and I'm slowly starting to lose batteries now and then, more frequently this past year. So now I have a problem, do I buy new batteries, or do I contact Dewalt about getting the adapters so I can buy the new 18V Lithium Ion Batteries.

The main thing is, once you get started in a certain brand of cordless tool, stick with it, or you'll end up with a table full of chargers and batteries that don't work with each other. I have kept with Dewalt because their tools are really good, and I can drive 30 miles and have them repaired if I ever need. Also, I'm not sure on the other brands, but with the Dewalt 18V XRP series, I can buy bare tools, so I buy the tool without a battery, and without a charger, and save quite a bit of money.

I have only 1 complaint with Dewalt, the 18V XRP style NI-CD battery setup is pretty heavy. I did have the Makita 18V LI-ION drill/impact for a while and it was extremely light weight after messing with my Dewalt set for several years.

Really I don't think it matters which brand you go with, as long as you stick with it once you get the tools. Try and get the Lithium Ion battery tools though, the batteries last longer it seems like, charge faster, and are lighter weight. probably a bit more expensive to start out though.

 

[chris6278]

Definitely Milwaukee!

 

[franzdom]

They sell tons of tool only. Don't buy a bunch of batteries you may not need, don't buy chargers you don't need.

 

[rice rocket]

20V is all marketing speak. They all use similar chemistries, which puts them all at 20V MAX, 18v nominal.

Don't let the number of volts sway your opinion one way or the other.


All the Fuel stuff from Milwaukee is brushless. It's more expensive, but also less maintenance, longer runtimes, more torque. The only downside is it's heavier.

 

[cgv69]

IMO, Milawakee has the best cordless platform going right now so if you are going to start from scratch, Milwaukee is where it's at. I think that both their M12 and M18 lines have tools worth getting and I like that they have a charger that will charge both battery types.

As for which tools to get? That obviously depends on what you plan to use it for? I would say stick with the "Fuel" line when possible.

Here are some of my favorite models right now...
2763-22 > M18 FUEL 1/2" High Torque Impact Wrench w/Friction Ring - This thing is a beast and will remove anything a 1/2 Air impact will.

2654-22 > M18 FUEL 3/8" Impact Wrench Kit w/Friction Ring - This is the one I have. Not the torque monster that the 2763 is but it's lighter and more compact. Coupled with it's 3 different torque ranges, I think it's a better all around tool and still has enough torque for 90% of the things you would likely ever need it for.

The M18 FUEL 6-1/2" Circular Saw and M18 FUEL SAWZALL are both great tools if you have a need for them.

For Drills and Impact drivers, I prefer the M12 line because of their size. Get the 2597-22 kit that includes both the 1/2" drill and 1/4" Hex Impact Driver with both an 2.0 Compact battery and 4.0 XC battery. Awesome kit.

They have a bunch of other great tools in that line and more coming out but again, just depends on what you need but the ones above are the standout must haves IMO.

 

[KingCobra98]

just bought a milwauke fuel Hi torque impact, hammer drill and driver.. all i can say is wow.

I went with milwaukee because of the hi torque impact. I grew up makita guy but there impact is no where near.

 

[woodstockva]

Milwaukee has a WIDE range of M18 tools.....regular (brushed) & FUEL (brushless). They are all inter-compatible with batteries and chargers....but to get the most runtime & power, you will need to use the 4.0XC batteries (that come with many of the FUEL tools in the the kits.....unless there is a "CT" on the end of the product #....those are the 2.0 compact batteries).

I have reviewed a bunch of Milwaukee tools....and if you want to see what they can do, check out the Milwaukee playlist on my YouTube....below is the link.....

Also, Milwaukee has a great warranty.....5yrs on MOST tools & chargers....and 3yrs on batteries (may differ between product #s, so check that first on their site). They pay for shipping both ways & have a 5-day turnaround time on repairs/replacements.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI4r31TEm3frXuUnaCv-AllDH2x_r2ZCT

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PLI4r31TEm3frXuUnaCv-AllDH2x_r2ZCT" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[cheechi]

DeWalt 14.4 drill....

First off will be a cordless drill. I'd also like a 1/2" impact driver, recip saw and maybe a circular saw somewhere down the line. Lots of automotive work and some basic carpentry. I'm a junkyard hound so the impact driver and recip saw will be used a lot.

Going from any older 14.4, the M12 would be equivalent/better. Better power but not sooooo much more. Better weight but not many pounds lighter. etc.

I'd get the M12 Fuel hammer drill, fuel 3/8 impact driver, hackzall (fuel or not, there's benefits to both), optionally also a 1/4" hex impact fuel.

The hammer drill costs a little more, weighs a little more, but is a better built drill. This and the hex impact driver are for the carpentry and around the house stuff.

The 3/8, hex driver, & hackzall are going to be awesome at the junk yard. The non fuel is lighter & smaller, the fuel is heavier but has better power & batt life (with the 2.0 & 4.0) So it's a tradeoff. I have both & usually carry the non fuel just to save space. It doesn't get used all that often there, but I carry it in case. Also get yourself the M12 stick light, awesome at the junk yard.

The M12 hackzall, either one, isn't going to match the power of a corded one, even an 8 amp one. It's lighter, smaller, and can get into places the corded ones can't (or you can't get the right angle, like between studs) but it's not the be all end all. I do have an 18v recip also, and there are times I want it instead of a corded, or the M12, but there are not many of those times.

For the 1/2" impact driver, the M18 is probably going to be better than trying to do much of that with the M12. Same with the circ saw. Depending on your priorities, then you might just want to go with the M18 anyway, or do both, or if these aren't all that important then maybe just the M12.

 

[evintho]

This thread looks like a Milwaukee commercial! That's probably because they're the best! Thanks for all the info, guys. Looks like I'll start off with the Fuel M18 hammerdrill followed by the Fuel M18 1/2" impact w/friction ring, then the Fuel sawzall and circular saw.
Question: I've noticed on Ebay there'll be listings for the exact same tool but one listing will say 'from china' and be much cheaper than the other. What's the deal? Is the Milwaukee COO still U.S, are they overseas now, factories in both countries, is the 'from china' listing a knockoff item??? School me!

 

[woodstockva]

This thread looks like a Milwaukee commercial! That's probably because they're the best! Thanks for all the info, guys. Looks like I'll start off with the Fuel M18 hammerdrill followed by the Fuel M18 1/2" impact w/friction ring, then the Fuel sawzall and circular saw.
Question: I've noticed on Ebay there'll be listings for the exact same tool but one listing will say 'from china' and be much cheaper than the other. What's the deal? Is the Milwaukee COO still U.S, are they overseas now, factories in both countries, is the 'from china' listing a knockoff item??? School me!

You will not have a Milwaukee warranty if you buy a knockoff item.....I would use caution when things are "too good to be true". Also, Milwaukee has chips inside the tools, batteries, and chargers that keep a record of EVERYTHING....so if you use a knockoff battery in the tool, there will be a record of that & most likely it would void your warranty.

 

[franzdom]

They are designed here and made there like so many things now.
The reason this turned into a Milwaukee commercial is because that's the line of tools you asked for information on, and they are quite popular.

This thread is where you will learn all you want to about the Milwaukee tools:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244666

 

[Grigg]

I too am ready to get a cordless drill and small impact driver.
Any thoughts on Metabo?

I don't need a huge variety of cordless tools, just a drill (non hammer) and impact driver should keep me happy.

A couple years ago I had decided on Metabo... and didn't buy anything.
Still a good choice or is Milwaukee now a better choice?

 

[rice rocket]

Depends what's important to you?

Metabos are nice, but expensive. You'll find a greater breadth of tools and much better distribution network w/ Milwaukee. I'm not a professional, but I appreciate good quality tools and Milwaukee fit the bill for me pretty well.

Metabos are that extra 5% better, but at double the cost. I'd rather have more tools and be able to do more, than that extra bit of build quality and reliability that I'll never "need". And the tool snobbery that goes with it.

 

[bcradio]

I too am ready to get a cordless drill and small impact driver.
Any thoughts on Metabo?

I don't need a huge variety of cordless tools, just a drill (non hammer) and impact driver should keep me happy.

A couple years ago I had decided on Metabo... and didn't buy anything.
Still a good choice or is Milwaukee now a better choice?

Milwaukee Fuel is the better choice I'd say. Unless you live across the pond of course.

 

[Monte]

I too am ready to get a cordless drill and small impact driver.
Any thoughts on Metabo?

I don't need a huge variety of cordless tools, just a drill (non hammer) and impact driver should keep me happy.

A couple years ago I had decided on Metabo... and didn't buy anything.
Still a good choice or is Milwaukee now a better choice?

Metabo is the only company offering 5.2 AH batteries since they are closely working together with Sanyo. Competitors only offer up to 5AH. The batteries have 3 yrs. warranty.

Metabo just upgraded their drills and now offers 2 heavy duty models, one tool with brushless motor and 90NM and a brushed 4-pole motor tool with 110NM (for screws up to 12mm). Both are available with removeable chuck so you can insert the bit directly in the spindle which also makes the tool even shorter and 200 gram lighter. So you also can attach a angle adaptor for difficult to reach areas and a torque multiplier which increases the torque 3 times (for screws up to 14x800mm). Both models also have a electronic clutch and are made in Germany.
Here is more info: http://www.metabo.com/Cordless-drills-screwdrivers-and-impact-wrenches-in-the-LTX.49181.0.html

Metabo offers 3 compact impacts. 2 impacts (hex + sq. drive) with 150/210 NM and a brand new brushless 400NM compact impact tool "Made in Germany".
This is the strongest compact impact tool on the market today !! (Milwaukee Fuel 270NM)

more info: http://www.metabo.com/Cordless-Impact-Screwdriver.50239.0.html

 

[Ign]

Don't be afraid of the M18 brushed stuff if you find killer sales on it. Yes Fuel is nicer but the brushed stuff was fine for many years. I'm not a hater of new technology (I own a couple Fuel tools), just saying closeouts and clearances can be good for the consumer. And even the older batteries provide plenty of juice in most applications.

 

[Crown Imperial]

Bosch has been a lil slow in the past few years but look into their new brushless line. They are not class leading in anything but they are pretty good. I like the Bosch chucks much better than milwaukee. Nice thing about the bosch 18V line is the new inductive charging systems they are bringing to the market soon. Don't think there is anyone else doing this yet.
They also have 5.0 Amp bats.

http://toolguyd.com/bosch-18v-wireless-inductive-battery-charging-system/

 

[BikerDad]

Question: I've noticed on Ebay there'll be listings for the exact same tool but one listing will say 'from china' and be much cheaper than the other. What's the deal? Is the Milwaukee COO still U.S, are they overseas now, factories in both countries, is the 'from china' listing a knockoff item??? School me!

Most Milwaukee tools are produced in China now. Some may still be made here, and some may be made in Germany (AEG's badged for Milwaukee), but AFAIK all of their cordless tools are coming out of Asia. What you are seeing may be genuine Milwaukee tools, if so they would be "gray" imports. Whether they are actually Milwaukees or counterfeits, either way, it's probable that Milwaukee won't warranty them. They may be factory seconds, think about that one for a moment, so crunky that they were rejected before they even got on the boat. They may be employee/jobber discounted models. They may even be 5 finger discounted models. Or, as noted, counterfeits. IMNSHO, they wouldn't be worth the risk, unless it's a model that has been discontinued here and you absolutely, positively have to have THAT EXACT MODEL. (Note: this logic DOES often apply to model trains, rarely to mass market portable power tools.)

 

[woodstockva]

Most Milwaukee tools are produced in China now. Some may still be made here, and some may be made in Germany (AEG's badged for Milwaukee), but AFAIK all of their cordless tools are coming out of Asia. What you are seeing may be genuine Milwaukee tools, if so they would be "gray" imports. Whether they are actually Milwaukees or counterfeits, either way, it's probable that Milwaukee won't warranty them. They may be factory seconds, think about that one for a moment, so crunky that they were rejected before they even got on the boat. They may be employee/jobber discounted models. They may even be 5 finger discounted models. Or, as noted, counterfeits. IMNSHO, they wouldn't be worth the risk, unless it's a model that has been discontinued here and you absolutely, positively have to have THAT EXACT MODEL. (Note: this logic DOES often apply to model trains, rarely to mass market portable power tools.)

I know for a fact that ALL current M12 & M18 tools have chips inside that can tell exactly when they were used, which serial #'s of batteries were used, which serial #s of chargers were used, temps, etc. They plug them in when you send them in for warranty claims & it tells them everything.

This was STRAIGHT from the M18 line's product manager on a conference call with me.

If you use fake/stolen/counterfeit tools or batteries or chargers....you will void your warranty.

 

[rslaback]

If you are going to use these only as much as it sounds like you are I would take a good long look at the Ridgid 18v line. They aren't quite on the level of Milwaukee but the Lifetime Warranty on batteries sounds like it might come in handy. It should be noted that the lifetime warranty only applies to batteries that come with a kit. Additional purchased batteries only carry a 3 year warranty.

 

[Brownsfan]

Why not upgrade Dewalt tools. Their 18v and 20v Lithium Ion stuff is VERY nice and USA assembled. How heavy are you going to be using this stuff? I know they are not popular here but i have been using the Craftsman 12v nextec stuff and the 19.2v lithium Ion stuff for a couple years now and 2 of those years were in my auto electronics shop. Now they are just used around the house and the garage. The 19.2v line of tools has a lot of options. Hell I even have a weed eater for the yard. LOL.

 

[wildbill23c]

Why not upgrade Dewalt tools. Their 18v and 20v Lithium Ion stuff is VERY nice and USA assembled. How heavy are you going to be using this stuff? I know they are not popular here but i have been using the Craftsman 12v nextec stuff and the 19.2v lithium Ion stuff for a couple years now and 2 of those years were in my auto electronics shop. Now they are just used around the house and the garage. The 19.2v line of tools has a lot of options. Hell I even have a weed eater for the yard. LOL.

I'm actually thinking about upgrading my Dewalt tools to the 18v Lithium batteries, just need to buy the batteries and the new chargers. I may do this slowly over time, as the new chargers will charge both types of batteries, so I can slowly swap everything over as my old NI-CD batteries die. There's only a handful of Dewalt 18V XRP tools that the new Li-Ion batteries won't work on, however you can send them or take them to a Dewalt authorized repair center to have them converted free of charge nice job Dewalt on the ongoing support.

 

[yowzer]

Bosch has been a lil slow in the past few years but look into their new brushless line. They are not class leading in anything but they are pretty good. I like the Bosch chucks much better than milwaukee. Nice thing about the bosch 18V line is the new inductive charging systems they are bringing to the market soon. Don't think there is anyone else doing this yet.
They also have 5.0 Amp bats.

http://toolguyd.com/bosch-18v-wireless-inductive-battery-charging-system/

I recently went with Bosch based on price and feel. They may not have the best stats, but they're powerful enough for my needs, have all the tools I want in cordless, and are the most comfortable in my hand. Makita was a close second. Something about Milwaukee just doesn't click with me.

 

[quattroJoe]

I'll go ahead and throw in my unwavering support for Milwaukee too. I finally felt that the current generation of 12v tools was worth investing in and started my M12 collection about six months ago. It was between them and Bosch, but I got tired of waiting for Bosch to bring out their brushless 12v here, and Milwaukee had a head start on tool selection. Started out with the 1/4" Fuel hex drill/driver, 3/8" Fuel impact, and 3/8" ratchet. I've been nothing but impressed with them, from the torque to the runtime to the charge time. Even the weight and balance of the tools is pleasing. I've since added a few more tools to the collection.

As for 18v tools, I'm pretty invested in the Craftsman C3 line. Been using them for about ten years, at that time it was just DIY use. I considered transitioning to M18, but ended up replacing my batteries with the XCP lithium batteries which breathed some new life into the old gals. The overall quality of the Milwaukees is still leaps and bounds ahead of the C3s though, and if I were looking to switch I'd go M18 no question.

That said, I think Bosch makes some very nice cordless tools as well, and they're doing some innovative things, but their lineup gets very limited once you get past drills and impacts.

 

[7thDimension]

Even though they are ridiculously cheap, Ryobi's 18v lithium ion line of tools is actually pretty decent...

I have a bunch of Dewalt stuff that I like and use all the time. But I was given some old cordless 18v ryobi tools (circular and recip saw, drill). Although I would never usually buy Ryobi tools, they've always seemed like junk to me, I bought some 18v lithium batteries and a charger on sale at home depot. And, although the drill kinda ***** compared to my dewalt, everything else works awesome and the batteries last a really long time. Even their impact driver works pretty good. The saws cut straight and have plenty of power. And the tools have been dropped and left in the rain (the saw is over 10 years old), they all still work. And because they cost so little, I don't have to worry about them too much.

They are made in China, but so is everything else...

I also bought a cheap Ryobi router (1.5 HP fixed base for $40), so I could mount it permanently on a table and take the good one with me. And I've used it quite a bit and it works every bit as well as the $300 one. It's quiet, runs true, and has plenty of power... Not much more you could ask for at that price.

 

[theoldwizard1]

All the Fuel stuff from Milwaukee is brushless. It's more expensive, but also less maintenance, longer runtimes, more torque. The only downside is it's heavier.

IMHO, "brushless" is not worth the money for your typical DIYer.

Also, you will never get as much torque out of a battery 1/2" impact as you will out of a pneumatic impact.

 

[Crown Imperial]

Also, you will never get as much torque out of a battery 1/2" impact as you will out of a pneumatic impact.

^ You can not universally make this claim. The IR 20V 1/2" cordless impact will produce more torque than most 1/2" air impacts.

I recently went with Bosch based on price and feel. They may not have the best stats, but they're powerful enough for my needs, have all the tools I want in cordless, and are the most comfortable in my hand. Makita was a close second. Something about Milwaukee just doesn't click with me.

To add to this, most Bosch cordless products are still produced in the west. I.e. not the PRC. I believe the brushless line is made in Switzerland but don't quote me on that.

 

[Blöckw@rt]

All BOSCH cordless drills & impact wrenches (brush and brushless) are Made in Malaysia !

 

[Crown Imperial]

^ That is incorrect.

 

[big.jim]

In reality, it doesn't matter which brand you buy, the batteries will eventually fail, and are expensive to replace, actually sometimes cheaper to buy another tool set to get new batteries, then you are stuck with a dozen battery chargers LOL.

I've had my Dewalt 18V XRP tool set for about 8 years now, and I'm slowly starting to lose batteries now and then, more frequently this past year. So now I have a problem, do I buy new batteries, or do I contact Dewalt about getting the adapters so I can buy the new 18V Lithium Ion Batteries.

The main thing is, once you get started in a certain brand of cordless tool, stick with it, or you'll end up with a table full of chargers and batteries that don't work with each other. I have kept with Dewalt because their tools are really good, and I can drive 30 miles and have them repaired if I ever need. Also, I'm not sure on the other brands, but with the Dewalt 18V XRP series, I can buy bare tools, so I buy the tool without a battery, and without a charger, and save quite a bit of money.

I have only 1 complaint with Dewalt, the 18V XRP style NI-CD battery setup is pretty heavy. I did have the Makita 18V LI-ION drill/impact for a while and it was extremely light weight after messing with my Dewalt set for several years.

Really I don't think it matters which brand you go with, as long as you stick with it once you get the tools. Try and get the Lithium Ion battery tools though, the batteries last longer it seems like, charge faster, and are lighter weight. probably a bit more expensive to start out though.

do dewalt do a xrp to xr converter?i know they do the li ion xrp type post batteries but they seem to have reliability issues

 

[rice rocket]

^ That is incorrect.

Yeah, most Bosch I've seen are from China...but I don't shop Bosch that often.

 

[cheechi]

Well, all my Bosch drills (4 currently) and impact driver are either Swiss or Malaysian. It's reasonable some of them might be made in China, other cordless tools are.

 

[wildbill23c]

do dewalt do a xrp to xr converter?i know they do the li ion xrp type post batteries but they seem to have reliability issues

All I know is that from the older NI-CD batteries you can directly swap to Li-Ion on most of the XRP lineup with the exception of I think 7 of the XRP tools, the other 7 though you can have adapted at a Dewalt authorized repair facility free of charge.

If I get the money to start updating mine I'll try and post up some results. I can't see where there would be any reliability problems, all the difference of the batteries, are the internal chemicals, otherwise they're the same. You do have to get a different charger though. The new Li-Ion chargers are backwards compatible with the NI-CD batteries, so once you get the new Li-Ion charger you can have both types of batteries. Which would be nice for me, since I have 8 operational NI-CD batteries still. I just want to slowly convert mine, because to replace all 8 of my batteries would be around $1,000 or more by the time I buy a few chargers, along with the new batteries

 

[Blöckw@rt]

^ That is incorrect.

Then I ask for enlightenment !

Which BOSCH cordless drills/ impact wrenches are not Made in Malaysia and where they made, actually ?

 

[Crown Imperial]

Not sure anyone can give you a list of all COO for all Bosch power tools. But below are some links wiz zee proof!

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77376&highlight=bosch+cordless+switzerland

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1280344#post1280344

 

[GSteg]

Then I ask for enlightenment !

Which BOSCH cordless drills/ impact wrenches are not Made in Malaysia and where they made, actually ?

My Bosch IWHT180 was labeled "Assembled in USA". Some of my other drills are made in Malaysia.