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Correct breaker size for 15A compressor?

nolan7120

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I just bought a compressor that is rated for 15 amps. Per the advice of someone else on here in a different thread, I hooked up a dedicated 20 amp circuit for the compressor. I have not hooked up the compressor yet because I need to buy a few more odds and ends. Anyway, a friend of mine was just over and we were talking about the dedicated circuit and he said if the compressor is rated for 15 amps, then to use a 15 amp breaker. I'm an electrical newbie. He knows more than myself, but isn't an electrician.

So...is it ok to run a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a 15 amp compressor? Or should I switch it back to a 15 amp breaker? Thanks.
 
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nolan7120

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Harbor Freight 2HP 29 gallon compressor

I couldn't find anything in the manual mentioning a specific breaker size or dedicated circuit. All the manual really says about electricity is to hook it up to 12oV outlet, 60hz and on A/C.

I was leaning towards a Sanborn 20 gallon which clearly stated it needed its own 15A dedicated circuit so that's why I put the new one in. Someone here said up it to 20A because household breakers are only rated for 80%, which I did. Now second thoughts based on what my buddy said. The 29 gallon HF upped their CFM specs so I decided to go with that over the Sanborn. Here's a pic of the motor specs:

Q02Ebmz.jpg
 

wyliesdiesels

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Harbor Freight 2HP 29 gallon compressor

I couldn't find anything in the manual mentioning a specific breaker size or dedicated circuit. All the manual really says about electricity is to hook it up to 12oV outlet, 60hz and on A/C.

I was leaning towards a Sanborn 20 gallon which clearly stated it needed its own 15A dedicated circuit so that's why I put the new one in. Someone here said up it to 20A because household breakers are only rated for 80%, which I did. Now second thoughts based on what my buddy said. The 29 gallon HF upped their CFM specs so I decided to go with that over the Sanborn. Here's a pic of the motor specs:

yeah thats an urban legend, myth, old wives tale, whatever you want to call it. Its BS.

What size attachment plug did the compressor come with? 15a or 20a?
 

pattenp

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Look at a kitchen for example, outlet circuits are required to be 20A for appliances. So a 20A circuit is in no way an issue for your 15A compressor. Actually it's best to have the 20A circuit over the 15A when it comes to outlet circuits.
 

captaindiode

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If you notice it says "thermally protected motor", which means the motor has built in overload protection. The 20A breaker is protecting the feeder wires, not the motor. If you ran 12 AWG wire, then you can use a 20A breaker, 14 AWG requires a 15A breaker. If you look at the motor, there is probably a red reset button that pops out if the motor overloads. Once it cools off, you can reset it.
 

sberry

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Actually that could run on a 30. 80% is for continuous loads. Since its got its own thermal it protects the wire, the breaker then becomes short circuit protection and a larger one prevents nuisance trips. A 30 would work on a 14 in pipe (wired direct) or a 12 cable which are better than the cord it comes with.
The main issue is a receptacle that has a breaker higher than its design. I saw a sump pump in a closet out of the way had a 12 wire 30 brkr installed by a master a while back. It had a duplex but it was hidden unless one looked for it and he is a genius but not supper fussy, every other circuit in the place was properly protected.
I have one special out of the hundreds of circuits, these little comps, some welders and some saws will trip a 20 especially short circuits close to the panel. I carry 60 ft of 14 cord for roofing due to this. Sometimes when a machine is super new and crisp things are ok but some are problematic and there isn't much you can do.
The main concern is to deny access to the recept to other equipment that wouldn't be able to rated handle it due to short circuit. This doesn't mean plugging in anything that trips a breaker but limited to pieces that need and can tolerate it, usually with limited duty cycle and some other factors such as cord size, internal equipment design, etc, just generalization here and not meant to be super specific.
The factory made chop saw that comes 15 end actually draws 40 on a good cut, I am surprised the 30 doesn't trip. It tripped a 20 on starts every 3rd or 4th time especially with a thicker wheel on it.
 

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nolan7120

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Ok cool. 20A receptacle on 20A breaker with 12 gauge wire is exactly how it is hooked up. My dumb *** used solid wire this time. Next time I'm using stranded. Thanks guys.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Actually that could run on a 30. 80% is for continuous loads. Since its got its own thermal it protects the wire, the breaker then becomes short circuit protection and a larger one prevents nuisance trips. A 30 would work on a 14 in pipe (wired direct) or a 12 cable which are better than the cord it comes with.
The main issue is a receptacle that has a breaker higher than its design. I saw a sump pump in a closet out of the way had a 12 wire 30 brkr installed by a master a while back. It had a duplex but it was hidden unless one looked for it and he is a genius but not supper fussy, every other circuit in the place was properly protected.
I have one special out of the hundreds of circuits, these little comps, some welders and some saws will trip a 20 especially short circuits close to the panel. I carry 60 ft of 14 cord for roofing due to this. Sometimes when a machine is super new and crisp things are ok but some are problematic and there isn't much you can do.
The main concern is to deny access to the recept to other equipment that wouldn't be able to rated handle it due to short circuit. This doesn't mean plugging in anything that trips a breaker but limited to pieces that need and can tolerate it, usually with limited duty cycle and some other factors such as cord size, internal equipment design, etc, just generalization here and not meant to be super specific.
The factory made chop saw that comes 15 end actually draws 40 on a good cut, I am surprised the 30 doesn't trip. It tripped a 20 on starts every 3rd or 4th time especially with a thicker wheel on it.

You cant put a 15a or 20a outlet on a 30a breaker for a cord and plug connected compressor.

If 30a is needed then the outlet needs to be a 5-30r. This means changing the attachment plug which then violates the listing.

Continuous loads can not be more than 80% of the circuits ampacity...
 

md21722

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The HF air compressor will run fine on any standard 14 AWG / 15A home circuit as long as the distance from the receptacle to the panel is not outrageously long. I have run these types before with the ceiling light on and even managed to open and close the garage door too. :D What you've done with 12 AWG / 20A circuit and outlet is more than enough.

These compressors are typically 1.5-1.7 HP but say 2 HP. A true 2 HP compressor will trip a 15A breaker every time. If it doesn't you might have a bad breaker.
 
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sberry

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You cant put a 15a or 20a outlet on a 30a breaker for a cord and plug connected compressor.
Sure you can, doesn't make it legal. But its done all the time for these little units when there is a problem. As I pointed out the main thing that makes it unsafe is the potential that it could be used for other tools.
 
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sberry

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I did it, I didn't say it should be done but it is. But,,, what would you do in your garage with a saw or a comp that was problematic?
Before you get your ******* in a wad I am a code believer. As I said in the ramble it is not specific but a generalization about some fundamental theory which despite an array of masters on this forum who are good at picking code are dam near pitiful explaining some fundamental theory about the nature of the equipment design.
I have worked on other threads where people want to make a 50 to 20 adapter but didn't get much help with that, now you here to nitpick me especially when I carefully add that this was a generalization about the design aspects which ensure that something is safe.
 
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sberry

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Those boxes of 30 breakers have a legal place but where do they all go? I own one legal circuit for them for an RV but the store sells a box a week. How many places can you think of them that are legal, some hot tubs now, an RV and some commercial light circuits?
As I mention I ran across one a while back for a sump pump, the master that did it must not have been too concerned that this single dedicated circuit out of the way with the recept in an enclosure was a great danger? He has seen so much shoddy stuff that this probably doesn't even register, this is a guy that score higher on one of the state exams than anyone that ever took it. He probably has some concept of the REAL risk.
I had to wonder on another forum, a guy was worried to tears and insulting the rest of us with a safety speech about pounding a ground rod every time he stopped with his travel trailer, then rides off in to the sunset on his Harley,,, ha, probably wont fly commercial either.
I would say this ranks up there with the risk of using a 10 cable on a 22A compressor.
 
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ez-duzit

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You should be fine using a 20-amp breaker and outlet. But compressors have a high startup current, so there is the remote possibility of tripping the breaker when it starts under load.
 

alfredeneuman

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With a 20 Amp breaker you ought to be all set.

If it wouldn't work with the provided plug, and there was no way to hook it up without violating rules, I'd return it to HF and ask them for either a replacement or a refund. :)
 

manwithtools

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And that some how makes it right?

Ive seen lots of non code compliant work done by "LICENSED" electricians in this state(we dont have a masters test here)...

Wylie is correct, just because a "Master" or "Licensed" electrician did the work, that does not make it correct. I've seen plenty of hack electricians and engineers that do things they shouldn't.
 

sberry

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I never did say it was correct. That part was missed somewhere along the line. My point is that we got some real smart guys that seemed to be confused about the difference between thermal overload and short circuit and how it relates to plug and recept design.
 

mm08822

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Actually that could run on a 30. 80% is for continuous loads. Since its got its own thermal it protects the wire, the breaker then becomes short circuit protection and a larger one prevents nuisance trips. A 30 would work on a 14 in pipe (wired direct) or a 12 cable which are better than the cord it comes with.
The main issue is a receptacle that has a breaker higher than its design. I saw a sump pump in a closet out of the way had a 12 wire 30 brkr installed by a master a while back. It had a duplex but it was hidden unless one looked for it and he is a genius but not supper fussy, every other circuit in the place was properly protected.
I have one special out of the hundreds of circuits, these little comps, some welders and some saws will trip a 20 especially short circuits close to the panel. I carry 60 ft of 14 cord for roofing due to this. Sometimes when a machine is super new and crisp things are ok but some are problematic and there isn't much you can do.
The main concern is to deny access to the recept to other equipment that wouldn't be able to rated handle it due to short circuit. This doesn't mean plugging in anything that trips a breaker but limited to pieces that need and can tolerate it, usually with limited duty cycle and some other factors such as cord size, internal equipment design, etc, just generalization here and not meant to be super specific.
The factory made chop saw that comes 15 end actually draws 40 on a good cut, I am surprised the 30 doesn't trip. It tripped a 20 on starts every 3rd or 4th time especially with a thicker wheel on it.

I did it, I didn't say it should be done but it is. But,,, what would you do in your garage with a saw or a comp that was problematic?
Before you get your ******* in a wad I am a code believer. As I said in the ramble it is not specific but a generalization about some fundamental theory which despite an array of masters on this forum who are good at picking code are dam near pitiful explaining some fundamental theory about the nature of the equipment design.
I have worked on other threads where people want to make a 50 to 20 adapter but didn't get much help with that, now you here to nitpick me especially when I carefully add that this was a generalization about the design aspects which ensure that something is safe.

I never did say it was correct. That part was missed somewhere along the line. My point is that we got some real smart guys that seemed to be confused about the difference between thermal overload and short circuit and how it relates to plug and recept design.
*************************************
If this compressor was hardwired, it would need to be wired with 10’s. FLC = 24a for 2 HP @120vac.
24 x1.25 = 30a. (Big jump from nameplate FLA’s of 15a.!)

Since the compressor is purchased as plug & cord connected with FLA’s = 15a, it must be on a 20a general purpose branch circuit(#12’s). No single piece of equipment can be over 80% of ckt rating. See 210.23(A)(1). 12a = max allowed on 15A ckt. 16a = max allowed on 20A ckt.

The 30A for the chop saw probably trips pulling 40A somewhere between 1 and 7 minutes depending on cb tolerance. High start-up current. For high startup current - use 14 awg ext cord here also.

The confusion is on your end regarding thermal o/l…………..
The problem is, you are violating established premises wiring requirements detailed in the code - NEC 210.21(B)(1) and 210.21(B)(3) for general purpose branch circuits. The concept you are trying to apply to a general-purpose branch circuit is that of the exception used only for dedicated motor branch circuits found in art 430.

Motor circuits are dedicated to hard-wired connected motors. The cb provides the s.c./g.f. protection for the supply conductors and the hard-wired motor (or its controller) provides the o/l protection to the motor and indirectly back to the circuit conductors. There is no randomness as to the motor load that is attached to this hard-wired circuit – it is a matched system.

For an improperly wired general purpose branch circuit, the compressor can be unplugged and removed at any time from the receptacle leaving the 20A recept wired with 12’s on a 30a cb. Anyone can plug in virtually any random thing to this incorrectly protected circuit at any time. Pieces of tape placed over receptacle faces or sharpie scribble won’t stop anyone from connecting other loads to it. That is how the inspector will look at this and fail it. (There are no qualified people or supervision to otherwise monitor/prevent this from happening.)
Although short circuit and ground fault protection is provided by the 30a cb, there is not the proper o/l protection for the hard-wired premises wiring. An excess of 20a and less than 30a can easily be connected to the receptacle and there will be no o/l response action performed by the cb. The circuit conductors and recept could easily be loaded with 28-30a and start deterioration of the insulation/recept from the excess heat created. This 50% o/l could go on indefinitely and the cb is still performing as it was designed to do - it never gets into the trip range.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Wylie is correct, just because a "Master" or "Licensed" electrician did the work, that does not make it correct. I've seen plenty of hack electricians and engineers that do things they shouldn't.

Dont even get me started on engineers.... :lol_hitti :willy_nil
 
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sberry

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I am not confused at all by this, I said the same thing, that the danger is to plug something else in to it. But the thing with a 14 cord is not going to overload the 12 wire no matter what breaker is on it.
 

mm08822

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I am not confused at all by this, I said the same thing, that the danger is to plug something else in to it. But the thing with a 14 cord is not going to overload the 12 wire no matter what breaker is on it.

Well thats the whole issue. When you unplug the first thing and plug in a second thing and another thing, the thing protecting the original thing is the wrong thing.

At least I thing so.
 

Alchymist

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Those boxes of 30 breakers have a legal place but where do they all go? I own one legal circuit for them for an RV but the store sells a box a week. How many places can you think of them that are legal, some hot tubs now, an RV and some commercial light circuits?
As I mention I ran across one a while back for a sump pump, the master that did it must not have been too concerned that this single dedicated circuit out of the way with the recept in an enclosure was a great danger? He has seen so much shoddy stuff that this probably doesn't even register, this is a guy that score higher on one of the state exams than anyone that ever took it. He probably has some concept of the REAL risk.
I had to wonder on another forum, a guy was worried to tears and insulting the rest of us with a safety speech about pounding a ground rod every time he stopped with his travel trailer, then rides off in to the sunset on his Harley,,, ha, probably wont fly commercial either.
I would say this ranks up there with the risk of using a 10 cable on a 22A compressor.

When we bought our current domicile, there were a host of 30 and 40 amp dual breakers with #12 wire, and even some single 20's with either #14 wire, or some old 2 wire cloth covered stuff. The 30 amp dual breakers did come in handy - one on an RV outlet, and another feeding a second sub panel in the garage. Still haven't found a use for the 40s.
 

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sberry

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There is the assumption that the only purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire from thermal on a general circuit. It also may provide short circuit for what's plugged in to it.
 

mm08822

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There is the assumption that the only purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire from thermal on a general circuit. It also may provide short circuit for what's plugged in to it.

Who's made that assumption? A resi breaker protects against: overload, short circuit and ground faults. Overload needing to best match the respective conductor size, while s.c./g.f.'s will make almost any size breaker trip.

Also s.c./g.f's have a higher likelihood and much faster time of clearing the fault than an overload ever would.
 

sberry

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It isn't just motors. Look at cooking equipment where multiple pieces are wired to a single circuit. The breaker is for thermal for the building wire but sized for shorts in the unit. Same for an electric range. The breaker is large enough to provide all the current it needs but small enough for shorts. Each piece in it is wired with 12 and doesn't have additional protection. Same for a buzzer welder, got a 12 cord plugged in to 50. Basically the same as stuff with smaller wires plugged in to 20, only time it's thermal is if there are multiple appliances on the same circuit, otherwise just for shorts and as a. disconnect.
 
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