CoThG's Toolbox question thread

[CoThG]

I've been looking on FB Marketplace for toolboxes and came across one that looked worthy of further investigation. I messaged the guy for additional photos and he sent me this photo of his invoice from his tool truck guy. I'm assuming he's using Snap On credit. UFB the interest rate he's being charged...24.9%. He'll owe $7932.92 for a box that sold for $5439.29!!! That's a 13 year loan!!! UFB

How and why do guys put up with such predatory practices? Are they such poor credit risks that the tool companies can get away with charging such ridiculous rates or is this guy's credit so bad that's the best he could get?

I've read that many auto "techs" have very poor credit and are horrible with money management.

 

[LWB]

He can pay it off whenever he wants.

But, seeing as he's just "tech" and can't manage a paycheque he will likely go full term

(That's sarcasm in case anyone gets bent)

 

[Meursault74]

Lots of people have poor money management skills. Credit cards, payday loans etc. Here's a nice comparison of rates for credit cards.

Average Credit Card Interest Rates for 2023: Current Rates by Category

wallethub.com

I don't know what my credit card rate is and I don't care what it is. Why? The entire balance is paid when due.

 

[Firebrick43]

Because they want it now and deserve it now. Thats what they tell themselves.

And its not necessarily predatory. Most of them are high risk. Its insane how many guys didn't pay their bill and would hide or leave when the snap on guy showed up or move jobs and not make payments.

I have 40K ish in snap on tools and one smaller box and always paid cash. And the majority of those tools were nice, sometimes barely used sets/tools that coworkers would need money for something. They knew that I had the cash or would have it tomorrow. Invariably they would go buy themselves a new set on credit the next time the **** truck showed up.

 

[Shop-hound]

There’s a lot of auto techs on this forum that would take exception to that statement and have some very good financial advice regarding tool purchases (especially to do with roll cabs). - be careful with generalizations

I love my Snap on, but absolutely detest their practice of preying on young techs looking to show off their shiny new box and be part of the gang.

 

[CoThG]

He can pay it off whenever he wants.

But, seeing as he's just "tech" and can't manage a paycheque he will likely go full term

(That's sarcasm in case anyone gets bent)

He said he's trying sell it because he can't keep up with the payments...

 

[LWB]

He said he's trying sell it because he can't keep up with the payments...

Did I miss this? Lots of people live off of CC. You sound surprised?

 

[CoThG]

There’s a lot of auto techs on this forum that would take exception to that statement and have some very good financial advice regarding tool purchases (especially to do with roll cabs). - be careful with generalizations

I love my Snap on, but absolutely detest their practice of preying on young techs looking to show off their shiny new box and be part of the gang.

Just relaying what many Youtube auto techs say about tech's generally poor financial habits, especially when it comes to tools. Obviously, there are techs that are responsible with their finances, but what I've witnessed, the stereotype fits.

 

[CoThG]

Did I miss this? Lots of people live off of CC. You sound surprised?

Not surprised. Just a concept foreign to me. Except for my first home and new cars, if I can't pay cash, I don't buy it.

 

[Firebrick43]

There’s a lot of auto techs on this forum that would take exception to that statement and have some very good financial advice regarding tool purchases (especially to do with roll cabs). - be careful with generalizations

I love my Snap on, but absolutely detest their practice of preying on young techs looking to show off their shiny new box and be part of the gang.

So a guy showing up for maybe an hour once a week; outside the shop in a truck; that they willingly go out to and get on is predatory?

You cant **** the willing. Its no different than big engine sports cars or big bro dozer diesel trucks. 150 years ago it was the same with large fancy thoroughbred horses. Young men(and women with different items) have always bought things that they in many cases could ill afford to impress their friends and strangers as well. Not much different than a peacock strutting around

 

[zendriver]

A tool box is pretty useless without tools, so he probably in hock plenty for those as well.

What’s “predatory” about a no money down loan to someone who stands a very good chance of defaulting on it?

When I was young and stupid (just old now) felt like I had to keep up with the service station mechanic “Jones” so I went into hock for a handful (literally) of SO goodies. Just a few bucks a week I dodged the driver when I was totally broke.

That was 47 years ago after getting them paid off asap never purchased one of that brand since nice.

Fwiw many credit cards operate in the range of that interest rate.

This is really nothing new:

 

[bscman]

I don't work for a bank, and I'm surely no loan officer, but I get pretty sick of the term "predatory lending."

If you're an adult, and you've got a high school diploma or GED, you should be smart enough to understand how payments and interest works. It's a pretty basic math principle, that was likely taught to you for at least four years during your education. My 13yr old nephew gets it

If you're willing to sign on the dotted line over a several thousand dollar loan, you're capable of understanding the consequences. Whether it's 0.9% or 29.99% I don't care, you made the decision to sign because you wanted it THAT BADLY.

And that's the real problem.
People don't understand delayed gratification, saving for a goal, priorities, etc. Heck, even eBay has a "four easy payments" option...

 

[shawhite]

He can’t keep up with a $50 a week payment. He doesn’t care about the payment. I can assure you he doesn’t plan on paying that loan off if you buy the box from him. And this is the reason truck credit has high interest rates.

 

[CoThG]

He can’t keep up with a $50 a week payment. He doesn’t care about the payment. I can assure you he doesn’t plan on paying that loan off if you buy the box from him. And this is the reason truck credit has high interest rates.

So, does Snap On credit or the tool truck guy actually "own" the box?

 

[65ranchero]

As I see it SO credit will notify of default and local SO dealer does the repo.
The SO dealer probably does not front the money. If he did he would be in a world of hurt.

 

[65ranchero]

He can’t keep up with a $50 a week payment. He doesn’t care about the payment. I can assure you he doesn’t plan on paying that loan off if you buy the box from him. And this is the reason truck credit has high interest rates.

He's probably a young tech who spends his pay check by Saturday night and buys lunch out every day!

 

[CoThG]

As I see it SO credit will notify of default and local SO dealer does the repo.
The SO dealer probably does not front the money. If he did he would be in a world of hurt.

How does it work if he sells the box to a third party before the loan is repaid? Obviously, there is no title for a box, so does Snap On or the tool truck guy come after the original purchaser to get their money back? He doesn't have the box to repo. He sold it. Do they try and sue him for the amount he defaulted or just report it to the credit bureaus as a default?

 

[CoThG]

He's probably a young tech who spend his pay check by Saturday night and buys lunch out every day!

Agreed. His FB profile pic is very immature.

 

[65ranchero]

At the very least it's a hit on the original buyer credit.
The original owner could ( I'm not saying it will happen) pay off the loan as best as possible from the sale but it's harder when he skips.

 

[Shelbylex]

Well, we live in capitalism where the profit determines a lot. The companies are doing it because they can - also because there is always some person who "has to have the best and show it to others today and not tomorrow..."

In general people in USA (and probably many other countries) do not get any USEFUL financial education for everyday life in schools and colleges. It is much easier to control the uneducated population. Common sence is not that common in financial world either.
You want to control the public - pay them in colored pieces of paper and determine how much those pieces are worth. Let them save for their retirement in another pieces of paper/value tokens which have no direct correlation to real physical entities, control the value of those tockens and you control how much and how long people work. Just do not forget to brainwash the public periodically about "economy hard times, problems which are out of our control, etc...." Majority of public is in a way enslaved economically... Also do not forget to increase the ratio of managers who have power over people who actually produce/create/do something, pay them more and make them in charge of people who work...

There is no good way to fix the situation we are in where banks and corporations control and manipulate people. It's not only tool box companies, it's multiple others.

The only way to go around it would be the following
1. Start teaching people about finances properly in schools and colleges (I bet this would never happen - do not give freedom to people you want to control...)
Teach kids that financial success is actually a long term game of freedom and not showing off to your neighbor that you are driving a fancy $70,000 truck to a grocery store and paying tons of money for it, but rather ability to spend more time with the family, retire early, etc...
2. Older guys who teach younger ones should actually teach them properly (and not make them repeat the same mistake of making others rich by borrowing for the basics. "Having Snap On shows that you are serious about what you do and will help you find a better job type of BS (I bet a lot of those guys were either in debt themselves or are getting a % of sales...)
May be if some of those poor guys getting in debt for fancy tool boxes were told to "Get used and cheap, make money and then buy if you need", they would be better off
3. The MOST IMPORTANT WAY - Patents and grandparents trying to teach their kids (the world makes sure everybody works very hard, is too tired to get home to have too much meaningful interactions with kids. Remember - our goal is to raise them properly, not to help pay for their colleges...)
...I can keep going but you got the point

 

[CoThG]

At the very least it's a hit on the original buyer credit.
The original owner could ( I'm not saying it will happen) pay off the loan as best as possible from the sale but it's harder when he skips.

Theoretically, If I were to purchase the box and the seller doesn't pay Snap On what is owed on the box, could Snap On try and come after me to repo the box?

 

[65ranchero]

Theoretically, If I were to purchase the box and the seller doesn't pay Snap On what is owed on the box, could Snap On try and come after me to repo the box?

If they can find you

 

[Firebrick43]

Theoretically, If I were to purchase the box and the seller doesn't pay Snap On what is owed on the box, could Snap On try and come after me to repo the box?

Yes. The way they find you is when you need a drawer slide and they ask for the serial number to get you the correct one.

I have seen it happen. The safe way is to meet him at the snap on dealers truck, pay the box off for him and get a receipt for the box from the dealer, then pay the balance to the mech.

 

[CoThG]

Yes. The way they find you is when you need a drawer slide and they ask for the serial number to get you the correct one.

I have seen it happen. The safe way is to meet him at the snap on dealers truck, pay the box off for him and get a receipt for the box from the dealer, then pay the balance to the mech.

Thank you. That's what I thought might happen. I'm going to pass on this box. Too big a PITA to coordinate all that.

 

[Steve_P]

Yes. The way they find you is when you need a drawer slide and they ask for the serial number to get you the correct one.

I have seen it happen. The safe way is to meet him at the snap on dealers truck, pay the box off for him and get a receipt for the box from the dealer, then pay the balance to the mech.

That's the right way to do it. But I'm betting that the balance owed on the box is way more than its current value. Unless the seller can make the payments and changes his mind, this looks like a future repo to me.

 

[Firebrick43]

That's the right way to do it. But I'm betting that the balance owed on the box is way more than its current value. Unless the seller can make the payments and changes his mind, this looks like a future repo to me.

Your more than likely right, that the original owner bought it recently in May of 22.

 

[CoThG]

Your more than likely right, that the original owner bought it recently in May of 22.

It's been for sale for many months. It's overpriced for the model box it is. He states that he just wants to sell it for what he owes on it, which is more than the box is worth on the used market.

 

[Max]

It's been for sale for many months. It's overpriced for the model box it is. He states that he just wants to sell it for what he owes on it, which is more than the box is worth on the used market.

You were right to step away. There have been previous threads on here where people cited laws and personal experience to prove that if the other guy didn’t pay snap on whether they’d repo your box or not. The laws depend on your state, but still why intentionally step on that land mine?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Well, we live in capitalism where the profit determines a lot. The companies are doing it because they can - also because there is always some person who "has to have the best and show it to others today and not tomorrow..."

In general people in USA (and probably many other countries) do not get any USEFUL financial education for everyday life in schools and colleges. It is much easier to control the uneducated population. Common sence is not that common in financial world either.
You want to control the public - pay them in colored pieces of paper and determine how much those pieces are worth. Let them save for their retirement in another pieces of paper/value tokens which have no direct correlation to real physical entities, control the value of those tockens and you control how much and how long people work. Just do not forget to brainwash the public periodically about "economy hard times, problems which are out of our control, etc...." Majority of public is in a way enslaved economically... Also do not forget to increase the ratio of managers who have power over people who actually produce/create/do something, pay them more and make them in charge of people who work...

There is no good way to fix the situation we are in where banks and corporations control and manipulate people. It's not only tool box companies, it's multiple others.

The only way to go around it would be the following
1. Start teaching people about finances properly in schools and colleges (I bet this would never happen - do not give freedom to people you want to control...)
Teach kids that financial success is actually a long term game of freedom and not showing off to your neighbor that you are driving a fancy $70,000 truck to a grocery store and paying tons of money for it, but rather ability to spend more time with the family, retire early, etc...
2. Older guys who teach younger ones should actually teach them properly (and not make them repeat the same mistake of making others rich by borrowing for the basics. "Having Snap On shows that you are serious about what you do and will help you find a better job type of BS (I bet a lot of those guys were either in debt themselves or are getting a % of sales...)
May be if some of those poor guys getting in debt for fancy tool boxes were told to "Get used and cheap, make money and then buy if you need", they would be better off
3. The MOST IMPORTANT WAY - Patents and grandparents trying to teach their kids (the world makes sure everybody works very hard, is too tired to get home to have too much meaningful interactions with kids. Remember - our goal is to raise them properly, not to help pay for their colleges...)
...I can keep going but you got the point

"Real tools" are a resume FWIW. It does show you're serious, any brand with a significant investment shows that. Be it proto, wright, snap on, whatever. Despite what people say, a tool truck isn't letting you go stupid buying stuff up and have 50k on a $20/week payment. So when you do roll into a shop with an actually full tool box it says you have the skills to make the $$$ to pay the bills. And I mean actually full, not "my peas and mashed potatoes can't touch" full. When somebody asks about diagnosing something and I have 3 scopes and 3 scan tools, yeah that does show a little more investment and clout than the guy with a code reader and a meter. That doesn't mean a code reader and a meter won't get the job done, sometimes that's plenty. Point being it ain't my first rodeo and I've invested heavily out of my own pocket, to make money. It's like the guy with 5 torque wrenches from 10in/lb to 600ft/lb - he probably knows what he's doing because you don't just collect stuff like that for fun. It's a tool to make money.


Issue is they're not a resume for lubies and tire guys, which are the ones who seem most likely to feed into that mentality. I'm with you, the issue here isn't the toolbox, or the interest rate. It's financial illiteracy which is the crux. Back before I could reliably use live data, one of the lube techs bought a Verus. The issue wasn't the sale, the payments, etc, but about the failure to understand ROI. Is it their fault? IDK career lube techs making sub $15/hour are going to make stupid financial choices of various kinds.


FWIW snap on current owes me about $7. My stuff's on back order.

 

[Wrench97]

It's been for sale for many months. It's overpriced for the model box it is. He states that he just wants to sell it for what he owes on it, which is more than the box is worth on the used market.

Usually is the case, if and when he sells it what is he planning on doing with the tools put them on the floor?
Shops especially dealerships for some reason turn into keeping up with the "Jones" and my box is nicer then yours, I never did quite understand the thinking.
I remember a kid years back move his box in full top and bottom KR5xx he had 1 wrench in every drawer and Eastco socket sets...........he didn't last long.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

To be fair to the younger guys, it often has to do with need. For most of our apprentices, this is their first job. They don’t have any kind of real savings nor any real discretionary income but they need tools and a place to store them unless they want to use the ****** shop tools that are always missing and always broken. So they look at it as an investment for their future. They are planning to make a career out of it and they are thinking about the payments but they are young and starting out and not used to this stuff. Typically it starts to spiral out once they realize you have those tool payments plus their rent/car/phone/etc. I feel for them because all these companies expect these new guys to come in feet flying and that requires spending money, money they haven’t yet started to earn. It’s even worse when you enter fields with tons of specialized tooling or limited places to buy them. I’m not condoning Snap-on’s lending practices but credit cards on HF or big box tools are also going to have heavy interest rates. It’s just the times we live in. Gen Z is just stuck dealing with high interests and asking prices on just about everything. It is what it is.

 

[unslow1]

We always try to talk the younger guys out of buying anything from the tool trucks. Waiting at least 6 months and preferably a year to see if they even want to stay in this field. It works on most and more than half do change somewhat. A couple lately have been lucky enough to land fleet government jobs.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

We always try to talk the younger guys out of buying anything from the tool trucks. Waiting at least 6 moths and preferably a year to see if they even want to stay in this field. It works on most and more than half do change somewhat. A couple lately have been lucky enough to land fleet government jobs.

Tekton, harbor freight, amazon.... I mention all deals, HJE day I'll pay for your shipping added to my order. Just tell me the tools you want and I'll order them.

Nope, never any takers. Then people want to borrow a 17mm socket.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

To be fair to the younger guys, it often has to do with need. For most of our apprentices, this is their first job. They don’t have any kind of real savings nor any real discretionary income but they need tools and a place to store them unless they want to use the ****** shop tools that are always missing and always broken. So they look at it as an investment for their future. They are planning to make a career out of it and they are thinking about the payments but they are young and starting out and not used to this stuff. Typically it starts to spiral out once they realize you have those tool payments plus their rent/car/phone/etc. I feel for them because all these companies expect these new guys to come in feet flying and that requires spending money, money they haven’t yet started to earn. It’s even worse when you enter fields with tons of specialized tooling or limited places to buy them. I’m not condoning Snap-on’s lending practices but credit cards on HF or big box tools are also going to have heavy interest rates. It’s just the times we live in. Gen Z is just stuck dealing with high interests and asking prices on just about everything. It is what it is.

Pay Mcwages, but expect them to bring $1000+ in tools to start on the first day. **** has TPMS now, digital is required. You need triple square for VW undertrays, you really need an impact driver for all of it. Just to have the absolute bare minimum and suffer working off a pile on the floor, you need $500.

Typical "skilled trade shortage" stuff.

 

[LWB]

Pay Mcwages, but expect them to bring $1000+ in tools to start on the first day. **** has TPMS now, digital is required. You need triple square for VW undertrays, you really need an impact driver for all of it. Just to have the absolute bare minimum and suffer working off a pile on the floor, you need $500.

Typical "skilled trade shortage" stuff.

So, why doesn't the owner provide basic tools for the rookie coming onboard? It's a minuscule investment and shows commitment on their part.

 

[unslow1]

So, why doesn't the owner provide basic tools for the rookie coming onboard? It's a minuscule investment and shows commitment on their part.

A few do but it's not common. I've worked in two that had a no tools in no tools out and that was nice. It did kind of **** every once in a while when they didn't have the tool and you had to make do. Most shops provide something but I've seen some that provide nothing at all. Often what they do provide has to be shared and it's not in the best shape.

 

[CoThG]

I know tool trucks generally sell boxes at a discount from retail to their regular customers (techs). If I (a non-professional tech) was wanting to buy a new box off a tool truck and pay cash, in full, would it be reasonable to expect a similar discount as one of the regular customers?

 

[LWB]

A few do but it's not common. I've worked in two that had a no tools in no tools out and that was nice. It did kind of **** every once in a while when they didn't have the tool and you had to make do. Most shops provide something but I've seen some that provide nothing at all. Often what they do provide has to be shared and it's not in the best shape.

Thanks. I'm already picturing a HF tool cart loaded with HF tools at the head of a bay waiting for some new talent to come along. Give them a key and make them responsible for it. Even if you lost some it would be worth the investment IMO. Give a realistic time frame on when you expect them to have their own basic tools and then this goes to the next new guy/gal.

 

[CoThG]

A shop should issue tools to the tech and have them sign for being financially responsible if a tool "mysteriously" goes missing. Sign for an initial issue of tools and have a weekly inventory check by a manager. Any tool missing during the inspection is payroll deducted from their pay.

 

[nicks78camaro]

Most tool truck owners that have done business at my shop deeply discount toolboxes from the severely inflated "MSRP" to sell them, even more so if your cash is in their face.

As far as not being an employee at one of their stops, the only way to tell is to take your cash to them and tell them the model number of what you want and go from there.