Could use some quick level headed car related input from my friends here

[mayday0017]

So to start this off I don't want to get into to much detail as I don't believe bad mouthing anyone before they had a chance to do the right thing is right so please don't ask those questions.

I bought the first brand new car in my life in January for my wife. Nice little small SUV was around 50k and we have been very happy with the car for the most part.

Well we had a good rain here and I smelled her car and it smelled wet. I touched the carpet in the cab of the car and found backseat floor on passenger side wet. I scolded her for driving through water (which was not received well). Took the passenger seat out found lots more water but still assumed it was from her driving. Pulled carpet and pad out and ran fans for 48 hours until everything was dry and put car back together.

After car was back together I needed to run to store and she was driving my truck so I took her car. When I made a turn water came out of the dash. Suddenly realized it wasn't her driving through water that caused this or it wouldn't be in the dash. Told her and apologized and called dealership and told them the car has a leak and what I had done and that I had assumed it was caused by my wife but know that it wasn't.

Dealer had the car 2 weeks fixed other stuff that needed fixing (sat radio, tsb on seats, etc). But gave us the car back and said after water tests and 2 rains they found nothing. That day when wife got in car to drive home (they delivered the car back to her work and picked up loaner) she called throwing a fit about how her car smelled. I got her to calm down and told her I would check it out when she got home. She is very sensitive to smells and thought she was probably over reacting.

Well she got home and gave me the keys so I went out to look. Found passenger side wet. Called dealer told them to come bring back the loaner and get this car and I expect new carpet and padding for anything that has gotten touched by water. Hung up the phone and decided to check drivers side (which was never wet before) This time it was more wet than passenger side.

Service manager showed up with the new car and to get ours and I showed him the wet spots. He felt like an idiot that his own guys didn't catch this after it was so easy to find and exactly what I had complained about in the first place. For kicks I decided to open the rear hatch and poke around. What I found was 3 inches of water in the spare tire area and slime on the outside of the tire. Touched one of the side panels in the back and water started coming out of it as well.

At this point I told the guy scratch the new carpet I won't accept this car back. This is a flood car now and the dealer and manufacture can do whatever they want with it. Told him my sales guy's name and told him to get with him and find us another new car exactly like the one we bought.

So fast forward to today.... They found at least 1 leak, and I feel like they are going to try to "repair" the car. To me it is unacceptable the car hasn't made it's first oil change and most all of the interior will need to be changed. To us it will never be a new car again.

So my question, if you were in my shoes or the manufacture what would you feel is the right thing to do?

My own personal view - New car
My manufacture view - New car

Input?

 

[CooperFarm]

Typical dealer bulls**t (ok, not every dealer). I would react the same way you are. With that kind of leaking/water damage you'll never know what problems could arise somewhere down the road, be it electrical, rust and rot from the inside out, or simply mildew. Of course they're going to try to "repair" it because that makes the most sense financially, but unless they plan on replacing every part that came in contact with water, irreparable damage may have already been done. Good luck, be persistent and hopefully they'll do the right thing.

 

[mayday0017]

Just got word from dealer they don't consider the car flood to them its only a little leak and they would just replace the carpet and pad and clean everything else.

On the phone now with manufacture to open a case

 

[AnthonyJ124]

Get the regional manufacturer representative involved and let him be the middle man between you and the dealer. There's a good chance you'll end up back with the car, but without contacting the mfgr and alerting them of your displeasure and experience, the dealer will just keep fixing or trying to fix your car. Remember, they get paid to fix warranty items, the manufacturer rep is the one that can throttle how many attempts they make or the $$ of the repairs, and only the mfgr and/or the rep have the authority to take the car back.

That said, with only two visits, I don't think you qualify for most lemon laws, and unless you documented the waterfalls, they'll say it's subjective.

 

[bagged89s10]

This just seems like a huge manufacture defect. What model suv is it? I work in the auto industry and can ask my dealership contacts around here if anyone has seen this before in the same model car.

 

[info2x]

First thought I had was the AC drain line, bit this sounds more involved. I'd be curious to know where this leak is. With water getting to such a variety of places I have a hard time with a single leak path unless perhaps up high.

 

[jabber]

As some one who was an auto mechanic my whole adult life, I can saw you prob aren't getting a new car. No reason to really, all parts that were water damaged should be replaced and with that repair your car will be "new" again. Not what you wanted to hear, but if done correctly you should have a brand new car at the end of it. I would be very picky about any lingering smell though, that means they may have skipped some of the parts. I would also want proof that they opened every electrical connection near the water damage and coat with electrical grease.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

with the amount of water you have something is not copacetic. definitely need to get the store manager/general manager involved and the main company rep.

from my experience, be polite and direct.

 

[Kamn]

AnthonyJ124 has given you the best info you could have......get in touch with the Regional Manager from the Manufacturer in regards to warranty and claims. A friend of mine was this exact person for Honda/Acura here in Canada and she had the final say in vehicle replacement and customer satisfaction, hell she could come down hard on a dealer and they had to take it........as well as make changes to their protocol and customer satisfaction otherwise Head Office comes a knockin

Go straight to the chief and get this settled properly, I would be pissed to have a leaky car and some poor repairs done to it. You bought a new car not a water downed version

 

[Rookie2]

With that much water, the seat foam will get moldy eventually ,the crash sensors for the seatbelts are on the seat slide rails , the instrument panel components will develop corrosion if the water dripped on them .

You may need a lawyer to at least get a lifetime warranty in writing. I would not want the car if any other family member drove it.

 

[LB-1911]

Just got word from dealer they don't consider the car flood to them its only a little leak and they would just replace the carpet and pad and clean everything else.

On the phone now with manufacture to open a case

The term to use is water intrusion, not flood.

I'm sure there is a vehicle specific forum for your unnamed small 50K suv, you may want to check there to see if there are any similar reports.

Good Luck

 

[mayday0017]

Well, the director of the service department was the one telling me they are going to fix it.

Talked to the manufacture and they need 2 weeks to review the case and determine if a good faith replacement is justified.

Talked to the GM at the dealership and was told it was brought to his attention yesterday and that he told them then to start finding out what new car we want and to get the ball rolling. He said he told them there is no way any customer would be happy to have a new car back that had this much done to repair it. Was told he will have my sales guy call me and get the details of what car we want and get it on order if they don't have it.


I do understand everything can be fixed, any car with any amount of damage can be fixed. My problem is there is no way of ever knowing what all problems are down the road because of this. Also the car will never be put together correctly like the factory does it in the first place. Clips are never as tight, rattles happen, panels aren't aligned perfectly, etc.

This car has water damage as high as inside the dash and from the front fire wall all the way to the rear. I would bet the water damage is actually even higher I just haven't touched anything higher or seen water come out of something higher.

If the car was a couple years old and developed this problem fine fix it, but the fact it is still the same model on the lots being sold new and is not even 6 months old and has less than 5,000 miles on the clock a repair of this magnitude is ridiculous and to accept it I would be a fool.

Simple solution if they don't make it right is to contact insurance and let them pay out and go buy the Porsche SUV my wife likes and let them sue to recover their money. Insurance considers water in the dash to always be a total loss, manufacture should as well....

Thanks for the input and ideas everyone it is nice to see I'm not the only one that thinks this is a big deal. That said I do feel much better talking to the GM, my guess is the service director sees this as a big paycheck and replacing interior is easy work too.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

a few years ago i bought a factory certified silverado. what a joke that was, never again. i made quite a few trips back to the service department to fix things that were checked off the 170+ checklist as being "OK", including a broken ac vent the day i bought it!

ended up selling the pickup a year later and went back to building my daily drivers!

based on the GM's willingness to help, sounds like you've picked a good company to work with, if he follows through!

 

[biosurfer1]

I would guess there is a 99% chance the GM was just telling you what you want to hear. The next call will be something like "Good news, I talked with the service guys and everything is fixable so you won't have to deal with this ever again!"

Wouldn't be the first time someone at a dealership lied.

 

[Falcon67]

I would guess there is a 99% chance the GM was just telling you what you want to hear. The next call will be something like "Good news, I talked with the service guys and everything is fixable so you won't have to deal with this ever again!"

Wouldn't be the first time someone at a dealership lied.

Lets hope not. Not all are anywhere near like that.

 

[emktx]

Hi, sorry to hear about the troubles you are having with your wifes car. Some good advice has been shared already. I skimmed the post, at work, so if mentioned my error. I suggest you look at any invoice you may have received such as one from an oil change or other paid for service. There likely is a statement advising which government Agency oversees the car business in your state. Send them a certified letter stating your case and your dealers response. Also search for any automobile Lemon Law in your state. Take pictures and record all interactions with the dealer. This will likely be resolved without too much trouble. As far as resolution I mean a different new car. Please keep us posted.

 

[HeadsUp]

Hasn't Houston been receiving record rains? Seems as though the drains, weep holes, etc may be plugged. The question is how. Also there are plastic plugs in the bottom of many areas on a vehicle (i.e. spare tire tub) to drain excessive water. Wonder if they are installed.

Every state has it's own lemon laws. You may want to investigate Texas'. Would think that's the only way you have a chance of getting a replacement vehicle.

Edit: Doh! emktx beat me by a minute

 

[jd_1138]

What make/model is this?

 

[LB-1911]

What make/model is this?

So to start this off I don't want to get into to much detail as I don't believe bad mouthing anyone before they had a chance to do the right thing is right so please don't ask those questions.

 

[GTA Matt]

I had the pleasure of being the "water leak guy" for several years at a GM dealer. Not a fun job taking apart someones new 50k ride and tracking down a leak. That being said, everything is fixable. Carpet is replaced, everything gets wiped down. Damaged wire harnesses get replaced and connectors get cleaned and treated with dielectric grease. I just went through this last summer on my girlfriends new car. Purchased in April, I found out in August the AC drain was not hooked up at the factory. Was greeted one saturday morning to "there's something white on my floormat" (mold). Unfortunate, but it happens, only thing to do was fix it and move on. New carpet, wipe everything down, air it out for a few days, good as new.

If they are working with you on a new car, go for it. If that is shot down, just patiently stress to the GM your concerns about mold or future problems so his guys handle it properly. Remember, the dealer didn't cause the problem, it's not their fault, they are there to help you within the guidelines of their manufacturer.

 

[evildky]

You never said what brand this suv was. If it's a rover this is a common issue, trade it in and move on. Quite often they end up with loads of electrical issues due to the leaks. Whatever loss you take now will be less than the repairs you'll face later.

 

[pablo94sc]

Replying to the OP without reading too much of the thread, it sounds like you have clogged drain ports in the body panels that has allowed all that water to back up into the car. Given the amount of water intrusion, carpet/pad replacement and sealing up "leaks" (they all leak a little) isn't the action the dealer should be taking. The likelihood of additional unseen/future damage caused by that level of water sitting in the car is pretty high. I'd definitely push for a new car (dealer buy-back/lemon law).

That said, DO NOT GET A LAWYER YET!!! Once you lawyer up, all bets of getting this solved amicably are off. The dealer and manufacturer will basically say F-you and make you pay out the nose (via the lawyer) to get anything accomplished. Fight the good fight and try to get this handled by yourself through the dealer/manufacturer and then, as a last resort, contact a lawyer.

PS: Even threatening a lawyer will sometimes get them to clam up. They have lawyers on salary and aren't afraid to use them, so don't make them call your bluff - they will. This is based on a few different friends' experiences who got f'ed by crying/hiring lawyer too soon.

 

[leadfoot415]

If it is a '15 ford edge, there is a recall out for skipped sealant on a body seam behind the a pillar/windshield/cowl/mirror area. Recall 15b21.

It will fill the entire floor pan of the car with fishbowl like water levels.

 

[evildky]

If it is a '15 ford edge, there is a recall out for skipped sealant on a body seam behind the a pillar/windshield/cowl/mirror area. Recall 15b21.

It will fill the entire floor pan of the car with fishbowl like water levels.

That explains the mass of ford vehicles parked in every available lot in town this month. It seems for has some issue about once a month where they have to suddenly stockpile a metric crapload of new vehicles at a time.

 

[Kevin54]

WOW!!!!! First off, I would be pissed. Yesterday, I would have given them a chance, but today, I would raise ten kinds of hell.

I think I would just tell them to take the car back, and cancel the note on the car if you have one. If no note on the car, then tell them to give you the money back, and you will go elsewhere. The reason I say this is that we were jacked around on a new Z28 in '93. 14 times in the body shop, three complete repaints, a new rear hatch, and a new headliner and we were done with the car. The newness was wore off, and the car was no longer enjoyable. We traded it in on a new Blazer 4wd. We won't go into it about that, but we traded that in on a new Solara just in time. The Solara just turned 46,000 and is an '02 and never had a bit of problem.

Get rid of the vehicle back to the dealer. It definitely has issues, and they will milk you enough to say that they can't do anymore, and you are stuck with it. Don't hesitate. Just nut up, and tell them you are done, plain and simple. Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[Radix2]

I'll be interested to hear what this vehicle is if we ever do - I just can't imagine any suv set up so that a leak could not only get into the dash, front foot wells, but somehow also fills the spare tire well to 3 inches deep... What suv has a floor pan so low and flat that water wouldn't be 6-12 inches deep in the rear footwell before it made it into the rear? ( I'm not questioning any of the story, just trying to understand what possibly could have happened to get water all the places....)

Is there any other person that could have used this car and left the windows down and rear open in a cloudburst?

 

[stihlntime]

I would be following up on your states lemon law. I would at least make myself familiar with it. Family member had an issue with a new 2005 Chevy cab/chassis one ton after the dealer had made three unsuccessful attempts to fix an emissions problem relative contacte d state attorney general's office with all the documentation and he had a new truck ASAP. I had an issue with a 99 3/4 ton Ford v10 it had less than 150 miles on it alternator went out took it to the dealer for warranty replacement two weeks later went to check on truck and it had been wrecked by detail person no one had called me dealer was trying to get it repaired without my knowledge. I immediately called Ford they had the zone manager there the next day result was a upgraded truck with no monetary difference 7.3 diesel vs v10 crew cab vs. Extended cab Ford did the right thing. I would lawyer up as a last resort but the lemon law/arbitration option is always there to protect you.

 

[GTA Matt]

I'll be interested to hear what this vehicle is if we ever do - I just can't imagine any suv set up so that a leak could not only get into the dash, front foot wells, but somehow also fills the spare tire well to 3 inches deep... What suv has a floor pan so low and flat that water wouldn't be 6-12 inches deep in the rear footwell before it made it into the rear? ( I'm not questioning any of the story, just trying to understand what possibly could have happened to get water all the places....)

Is there any other person that could have used this car and left the windows down and rear open in a cloudburst?

Fill a cup halfway with water, drape a towel over the edge so just part of the towel is touching the water. In a short amount of time, the water will wick its way up the towel and over the edge. Same thing happens with carpet and insulation in cars. Water wicks its way around. Sometimes the areas that are the wettest aren't where the leak is. Some areas end up with moisture build up on parts just from the presence of water in the area and being in a closed up area with changing temperatures.

 

[Jagmandave]

Sunroof drains are usually the problem, unless it's something like the poster mentioned about the 2015 Edge...

Glad to see the OP is getting a new vehicle.

Kudos to those who point out that the OP should not have an adversarial relationship with the dealer, they're doing their best to keep their customer happy, it's the MFR who will pay for this, not the dealer.

We had a car we left at the dealer for repairs (not water related) while we went on a weeks vacation, mid vacay I called to see how they were doing - bottom line, they'd left the sunroof and windows open during a terrible thunderstorm - insurance totaled the car as they said it would never be reliable again and they would be paying for repairs forever if they didn't.

I never used that dealer again - as this time it was their fault, not the car's.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Like others above said, get in touch with the DSM. BTW, 2 weeks for a couple of TSBs and a water leak?

Tommy

 

[drmarkr]

So why can't the participants in this forum know what model of vehicle we're talking about.....IMO, it seems kind of ridiculous to have this huge discussion on this topic, and we don't even know what SUV we're discussing?

Every person reading this thread wants to know!

 

[LB-1911]

So why can't the participants in this forum know what model of vehicle we're talking about.....IMO, it seems kind of ridiculous to have this huge discussion on this topic, and we don't even know what SUV we're discussing?

Every person reading this thread wants to know!

So to start this off I don't want to get into to much detail as I don't believe bad mouthing anyone before they had a chance to do the right thing is right so please don't ask those questions.

I bought the first brand new car in my life in January for my wife. Nice little small SUV was around 50k and we have been very happy with the car for the most part.

I'll go with an Acura MDX....
https://www.google.com/#q=acura+mdx+water+intrusion

 

[Krash Kadillak]

So why can't the participants in this forum know what model of vehicle we're talking about.....IMO, it seems kind of ridiculous to have this huge discussion on this topic, and we don't even know what SUV we're discussing?

Every person reading this thread wants to know!

Because the OP doesn't want us to know - that's his decision and we should respect it.

Jagmandave has what's probably the cause - a VERY leaky sun/moonroof (clogged drains?).

Manufacturer has agreed to take the vehicle back. Should be pretty much a done deal from here out. I was going to suggest letting the dealer have one more try at it, with carpet/pad/instrument panel replacement + leak repairs.

Marshall

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Every manufacturer has water leak problems, especially on vehicles with sunroofs. My buddy has a 2015 Silverado that got a new headliner due to the shark find antenna leaking. **** happens. Hope you get yours fixed.

 

[theoldwizard1]

from my experience, be polite and direct.

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT.

Pictures, videos, logs. The number of times and the number of days a car has been in the dealers hands for the same repair is CRITICAL in any "Lemon Law" pursuit.

The dealer gets a limited number of attempts to fix it. You currently have no LEGAL CASE to stand on for demanding a replacement car The dealer is going to return it and take your rental. If they don't replace the carpeting, you have a major health issue about mold.

Contact your state's Attorney General about the specifics of filing a Lemon Law dispute. It differs state to state.

I would also try to get some pictures of the rust that now must be forming under the carpeting and trunk liner. Put it all together and send it to the manufacturer via certified mail.

 

[premierplayer]

do you see your car in the lot here?

 

[GTA Matt]

do you see your car in the lot here?

Haha, that's from 2011, Ron Bortnick ford in upper marlboro, Md. I used to work across the street from there at the Chevy dealer.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Haha, that's from 2011, Ron Bortnick ford in upper marlboro, Md. I used to work across the street from there at the Chevy dealer.

I'm 15 minutes from there in Chesapeake beach

Chevys long go e

 

[GTA Matt]

I'm 15 minutes from there in Chesapeake beach

Chevys long go e

No kidding? I grew up in Calvert. Yeah, we closed in 09.

 

[mayday0017]

Well the "case" should close on Monday so I will gladly tell everyone what the brand of car is and what was done.

Based on call from manufacture last night however they stated the service adviser told them only the leak needs to be fixed and carpet replaced. What a joke... If that's the case I'm going to take the car back put a couple water hoses on it to simulate lots of volume and see if it leaks. If so I will have met Texas lemon law requirements (2 attempts and back in shop 3rd time for same issue).

I am going to start talking with attorneys on Monday as well once the case closes to figure out who I will be going with. Good news is it won't cost me a dime Texas law says manufacture has to pay the attorney so if the attorney takes the case then he either wins or doesn't get paid.

If the car doesn't leak after the "fix" I will let my wife with her very sensitive nose keep me informed on the car. My guess is we will be back 3-4 more times complaining about smell. I want to throw a fit and force them to change more than the carpet because I know that is what it will take. Only problem is it is not my job to tell them how to do their job & the more I tell them how to fix it correctly the more likely we will end up stuck with the car.

I am a little curious if the dealership is only saying it is the carpet so that it can go back again for more work and have a better case for a new car. The dealership has been awesome to deal with with the exception of the service manager. Everyone else has been very helpful and I make sure to let them know how grateful we are for that. It truly makes me sad that we most likely will never buy from them again because I won't support the manufacture if they try to stick us with the car.

Sorry for those of you that really want to know what the car is. I hope you can appreciate I do not over react to situations and bad mouth people. I own a company and we make mistakes too from time to time it's always going to happen. I will bend over backwards however to keep our customers happy, in the days of the internet it is very easy to hit a company pretty hard just posting things on the internet. Luckily we have never had a customer react like that but I have seen competitors get destroyed (most truly deserved it, but I have seen customer spread the word with out even letting the other company make things right).

Anyways, I will be giving a better update Monday. The advise of not threatening with an attorney is good advise and I have made sure I have not crossed that line. The one thing I did say is that we are talking about $5k the manufacture needs to credit the dealer to make things right and it would be a shame if they can't do that as it will cost them 3-4 times that much if this goes to court not to mention they will also sell 1 less car right then and I will bad mouth the company every chance I get so $5k is a small price to pay.