Craftsman 2B or not 2B.

[Toolking]

Toolking, that's sad.

Yes that's very sad, and deceptive.

Some time money and profits changes people, especially when it comes to wanting more of both.

 

[seanb02]

I started my tool set with Craftsman. Once I began to actually use tools daily I started replacing most of the Craftsman with SK. Lately I have been phasing out the SK with Snap-on. There are reasons for the madness, I never liked the Craftsman ratchets or raised panel wrenches, so it was easy to step up to SK. Originally I was only outfitting my service truck.

Then I purchased a Snap-on box for shop use, and most of the Craftsman tools I purchased many years ago ended up on the service truck while the SK stuff ended up in the box in the shop. Remembered how much I disliked the Craftsman stuff so began filling up the toolbox with Snap-on and putting the SK back on the service truck.

I'll probably put the Craftsman to use in the back of my other truck for the very occasional stuff. Most of it actually is USA Craftsman, and it was good enough for me back when it was only DIY use. Doesn't work well for me in a real work environment.

 

[yrly]

SBD investing alot of money in a new huge manufacturing facility in TX not sure why people aren't sure about bringing US CM back....they sure are dumping alot of money in it for it to be

I take it with a wait and see approach. I mean you can make lousy tools in the US. Or serviceable ones that aren’t ergonomically nice just as easy as you can make good ones.

I mean who is to say they don’t just start churning out the tried and true raised panel designs. They work but they aren’t necessarily comfortable. It wouldn’t really light the world on fire. Now if they do ground up modern designs across the board they might have something.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I have "tools", which includes a few sets of craftsman both domestic and import.

I plan on keeping them, because it just seems silly to do otherwise.


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I tend to "mostly" agree with Zen for this part. If a tool does it's intended job, it stays. Many of My tools are Snap-on, Proto, SK, and other name brands that have seen the majority of use over the years. Even tho "officially retired," I am still doing frequent tool upgrades and expansions. I have given family members three full sets of tools which have included new and older Proto, Armstrong and Craftsman socket and wrench sets, some Wright tools, as well as Snap-on. Saying this; some would tend to think ALL the Craftsman tools would be purged from My tool boxes. Wrong.

 

[BFHtime]

I started buying Snap-on when Craftsman USA was getting hard to get. I plan on buying Craftsman Tools, if / when they bring production back to the US and are of good quality.

In the past Craftsman did make high quality tools with the respective price. The market was not there. I believe they should place themselves in the middle of the prosumer market, and keep a good warranty. Or make a lower end product to compete with harbor freight from Taiwan and then a US made line of good quality to compete with tool trucks at less the half the price of what the trucks charge retail.

 

[nichocha33]

I still use my craftsman sockets, I’m no pro just enjoy tools and turning wrenches. With that said, I have craftsman sockets and that’s it, wrenches are Carlyle, ratchet wrenches are Carlyle and GW, ratchets are a mix of Snap On, Matco, Carlyle. Carlyle is quickly becoming my tool of choice


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[finn]

No Sears around where I grew up. We had a Monkey Wards, so I had some PowerKraft stuff. Still have it, but it’s well over fifty years old now, and I still use it.

My dad was a metallurgical engineer, and had access to the SK industrial rep, so that got me my first non Montgomery Wards tools.

Somewhere along the line I did start accumulating Craftsman tools, probably while on shopping trips on family vacations, and I remember ordering Craftsman tools from the catalog when I rebuilt my first engine in my teens... things like torque wrenches, cylinder glaze breakers, valve spring and ring compressors, gear pullers and the like.

After college, I frequented the Sears tool outlet on Saturday mornings. The tools were often vendor samples, from what I can tell.

In the last twenty years my purchases have been more Snapon and Matco, as well as some Wright. Lately, I picked up a few small sets of Crescent and assorted Gearwrench tools. Frankly those tools work as well for me as the high dollar Snapon for 90% of what I do. I’m a retired engine engineer and auto hobbiest though, not a 40 hr/week mechanic. Not impressed by the Wright combination wrenches I have. Ok, but not worth a premium.

I strayed and bought some HF, too, but found them to be sloppy and of inconsistent quality, so I have pretty much written them off. Their boxes and carts are ok, though.

I still have some Craftsman power tools that are 30-40 years old. They are pretty much obsolete by now, and redundant. Newer stuff is Bosch, Dewalt, and some Milwaukee.

In all the years I have owned Craftsman tools, I can recall warranty claims on one socket, a ratchet, a couple of screwdrivers, and a reconditioned 3/8” drive air ratchet.

 

[Toolking]

I'm leaning toward Carlyle ratchets.[/QUO


When I first started I bought between Craftsman and Snap on, now that Harbor Freight has stepped up their game, if I were starting out today, to be honest with you I would buy between Harbor Freight and Snap on. Theres 4 HF stores in WV if theres one near you go have a look see.

 

[Toolking]

No Sears around where I grew up. We had a Monkey Wards, so I had some PowerKraft stuff. Still have it, but it’s well over fifty years old now, and I still use it.

My dad was a metallurgical engineer, and had access to the SK industrial rep, so that got me my first non Montgomery Wards tools.

Somewhere along the line I did start accumulating Craftsman tools, probably while on shopping trips on family vacations, and I remember ordering Craftsman tools from the catalog when I rebuilt my first engine in my teens... things like torque wrenches, cylinder glaze breakers, valve spring and ring compressors, gear pullers and the like.

After college, I frequented the Sears tool outlet on Saturday mornings. The tools were often vendor samples, from what I can tell.

In the last twenty years my purchases have been more Snapon and Matco, as well as some Wright. Lately, I picked up a few small sets of Crescent and assorted Gearwrench tools. Frankly those tools work as well for me as the high dollar Snapon for 90% of what I do. I’m a retired engine engineer and auto hobbiest though, not a 40 hr/week mechanic. Not impressed by the Wright combination wrenches I have. Ok, but not worth a premium.

I strayed and bought some HF, too, but found them to be sloppy and of inconsistent quality, so I have pretty much written them off. Their boxes and carts are ok, though.

I still have some Craftsman power tools that are 30-40 years old. They are pretty much obsolete by now, and redundant. Newer stuff is Bosch, Dewalt, and some Milwaukee.

In all the years I have owned Craftsman tools, I can recall warranty claims on one socket, a ratchet, a couple of screwdrivers, and a reconditioned 3/8” drive air ratchet.

Oh yeah good ol monkey wards, I went there a couple times with my dad, god I must have been 3-6 years old so I vaguely remember it, it wasn't long after that that they closed and I still have his old wards hammer drill, it still works.

 

[BroncoAZ]

My dad has a bunch of Monkey Wards tools in his box today.

 

[mudflap]

I'm leaning toward Carlyle ratchets.

Me too.....I have every one they make in QR

 

[Professional Tool User]

Well, they haven't had that (COO) as a selling point in about eight years.

The CMan bashing doesn't resonate with me. They had rebranded Mayhew prybars, that great thread restorer set, SK or Armstrong rebranded wrenches/flare nut wrenches...the CMan Pro screwdrivers were legit (and a great deal at $2.50 when the Outlets were blowing them out), some really nice Danaher USA-made reversible ratcheting wrenches (with the socket inserts)...and I had ZERO problem with their Danaher-era sockets...good gasket scrapers; the WF pliers were solid. Sears/Craftsman in the 2000s was as good as it got in accessible brick and mortar outside of HJE tools. Judge it off their former "Pro" line.

Now that's totally counter to Sears and Craftsman NOW which is a complete shambles and almost as embarrassing as HF's Pittsburgh line.

I was one of those people who actually went out of my way to hoard Craftsman's gems like the rebranded Knipex Cobras, Nupla dead blow hammers, Wilde pry bars, Wilde gasket scrapers... etc before the supply dried up. Pretty much any time I see signs of cost cutting, not just including COO, it's a good reason to bash a brand, including high end ones like Snap on.

 

[The Fall]

I wouldn't attribute CMan's decline to cost cutting, but to full-on Barbarians at the Gate-style collapse. I mean, they went from awesome to complete garbage fast and for reasons associated with ownership and upper-management. It wasn't a Mac Tools-like situation where it started creeping up. It was precipitous. They were hemorrhaging stores and money for reasons discussed thousands of times on this board (and it had nothing to do with people returning rusted flea market sockets).

It'll be interesting to see if SBD can bring back American-made sockets and wrenches. That mid-level quality that can withstand pro usage.

 

[Minnesota Steve]

I have a lot of Craftsman stuff.

You have to grade them on a scale. I have a socket/wrench set from around 1992. The blow molded case broke because of the plastic hinge. The 1/4" sockets don't have any way to stay on the ratchets(no detents or holes). The ratchets just randomly change direction when using them and the switch while metal feels cheap.

It's not that Craftsman stuff was particularly great, it's just that the stuff you got at K-Mart or True Value back in the day was even worse.

From what I saw towards the end of Sears it wasn't that the tools were any lower quality, it's just that everybody elses stuff had gotten better, and Sears was still selling the same stuff. And that's what I'm seeing with the SBD... rough forged flat panel combo wrenches sitting next to fully polished wrenches but they're trying to sell the Cman stuff at a higher price point. I think they're damaging the brand if they think they can sell the same stuff at a premium.

 

[Toolking]

I wouldn't attribute CMan's decline to cost cutting, but to full-on Barbarians at the Gate-style collapse. I mean, they went from awesome to complete garbage fast and for reasons associated with ownership and upper-management. It wasn't a Mac Tools-like situation where it started creeping up. It was precipitous. They were hemorrhaging stores and money for reasons discussed thousands of times on this board (and it had nothing to do with people returning rusted flea market sockets).

It'll be interesting to see if SBD can bring back American-made sockets and wrenches. That mid-level quality that can withstand pro usage.

I totally agree.

 

[visionguru]

I wouldn't attribute CMan's decline to cost cutting, but to full-on Barbarians at the Gate-style collapse. I mean, they went from awesome to complete garbage fast and for reasons associated with ownership and upper-management. It wasn't a Mac Tools-like situation where it started creeping up. It was precipitous. They were hemorrhaging stores and money for reasons discussed thousands of times on this board (and it had nothing to do with people returning rusted flea market sockets).

It'll be interesting to see if SBD can bring back American-made sockets and wrenches. That mid-level quality that can withstand pro usage.

I have lots of Craftsman stuff. I don't think it's all upper-management's fault, rather it's some sea change in the retail scene. Malls are struggling, Sears is struggling, ...Craftsman is part of Sears. To make matters worse, Made in Taiwan/China tools are getting better, people don't think Craftsman is a good deal anymore. At least this was how I felt from about 10 years ago, when I got some AutoZone Duralast ratchets/sockets and found that they were better and cheaper than Craftsman.

I can't see how SBD can make a lot of profit making mid-level sockets/ratchets in USA, essentially competing against Gearwrench etc., with the sky high health care cost in USA: $12,000 for 1 night hospital stay, $800 for a bottle of blood pressure medication, in other countries, those probably cost less than 1/10. That's a lot of sockets/ratchets to make up that cost differences.

About a month ago, I purchased a Craftsman ratcheting screwdriver from Sears, because it's made in USA. I was disgusted about the pathetic workmanship, and it doesn't even work properly. Changing COO solves nothing for SBD, because we already have plenty of those made in USA. Low profit margin products, such as hand tools, seem not suitable to be made in USA.

 

[M635_Guy]

I'm a long-time Craftsman guy, and have grown more and more disappointed by the tools ("tools" for me is everything from a wrench to a pressure washer). When things need replacing, I'm not even considering them for the most part (though I did get a Craftsman pressure washer this summer... from Lowe's).

I just replaced all my old C3 drills/impacts with Milwaukee stuff.

 

[Toolking]

The main reason for me buying any Craftsman was, 1 a quality brand at a good price, 2 the guarantee.

Goin to sears to buy or warranty tools was like getting on the tool truck to do the same, only without the tool truck price.

For me, Friday night was grocery night, so if I had any warranties to do, I was off to sears then woodmans and then home. Oh and possibly a beer or two in between

The way the warranty works now is 1 take to a sears, what's left of them any how and where that may be now, or 2 mail it in, either on is no good to me. Eventually it will be mail in exchange, so you might as well go to Walmart and buy Stanley tools and get the thing.

 

[giants]

...the new tools just didn't seem as good as the old ones. So, I bought other things including a lot of SO. Some old CM stuff got relegated to a travel set, some tossed, some given away and some I still use happily...

Thanks.

In what ways are the new tools inferior to Craftsman?

Besides Snap-on, were there any that were equal or better?

 

[The Fall]

I have lots of Craftsman stuff. I don't think it's all upper-management's fault, rather it's some sea change in the retail scene. Malls are struggling, Sears is struggling, ...Craftsman is part of Sears. To make matters worse, Made in Taiwan/China tools are getting better, people don't think Craftsman is a good deal anymore. At least this was how I felt from about 10 years ago, when I got some AutoZone Duralast ratchets/sockets and found that they were better and cheaper than Craftsman.

I can't see how SBD can make a lot of profit making mid-level sockets/ratchets in USA, essentially competing against Gearwrench etc., with the sky high health care cost in USA: $12,000 for 1 night hospital stay, $800 for a bottle of blood pressure medication, in other countries, those probably cost less than 1/10. That's a lot of sockets/ratchets to make up that cost differences.



About a month ago, I purchased a Craftsman ratcheting screwdriver from Sears, because it's made in USA. I was disgusted about the pathetic workmanship, and it doesn't even work properly. Changing COO solves nothing for SBD, because we already have plenty of those made in USA. Low profit margin products, such as hand tools, seem not suitable to be made in USA.

Well, there's a lot to unwrap here. What happened to Sears was the company was financialized under Eddie Lampert. That's not a controversial point. He did what most "investment banks/junk bonders" do when they take control of a company. They take out highly leveraged loans to gain control of the company, run companies on fumes (to payback loans), implement massive stock buybacks (Sears was trading at just under $140 a share in 2007), raid pension funds, sell off assets, file bankruptcy and then plead with judges that they can turn it around, etc. Whether he thought this would work or not -- I don't know. Charles Keating was likely certain he could keep Lincoln Savings around for another 30 years, but it's hard to taper a Ponzi.

You are right about the FIRE sector's (finance, insurance and real estate) high costs keeping American manufacturing noncompetitive. The old fight used to be between labor and employers. Now those two are both fighting the FIRE sector (my family owned a custom cabinet shop). Economists have been making that case for the last twenty years. That's a shame as the US can still produce amazing tools.

We can chat about dead malls and retail, but that's not very relevant. I think 2008 did a lot of American families in. We experienced a lost decade.

Judging Sears' American offerings off their RP ratchets is a bit disingenuous. The Thin Profile, CMan Pro ratchets they had around 2010 and the RHFT were all very good. You got what you paid for. People are rightly suspicious of SBD. But if they can make CMan shine half as much as they did in, say, 2001, it'd be a very good thing.

 

[The Fall]

The main reason for me buying any Craftsman was, 1 a quality brand at a good price, 2 the guarantee.

Goin to sears to buy or warranty tools was like getting on the tool truck to do the same, only without the tool truck price.

For me, Friday night was grocery night, so if I had any warranties to do, I was off to sears then woodmans and then home. Oh and possibly a beer or two in between

The way the warranty works now is 1 take to a sears, what's left of them any how and where that may be now, or 2 mail it in, either on is no good to me. Eventually it will be mail in exchange, so you might as well go to Walmart and buy Stanley tools and get the thing.

Sears had the best warranty on tools ever. I remember I had to pick up something there and I had a 9/16" combo wrench with a good amount of chrome flake. I thought, "Hell, they might warranty this." I asked RJ at the counter if they did. He looked at me like I was stupid: "It's Craftsman. Of course. Go grab one off the shelf and leave that one here." That's why Sears got my business. I only warrantied about four or five tools in all the years I shopped there.

 

[Ton ton]

I'm leaning toward Carlyle ratchets.[/QUO


When I first started I bought between Craftsman and Snap on, now that Harbor Freight has stepped up their game, if I were starting out today, to be honest with you I would buy between Harbor Freight and Snap on. Theres 4 HF stores in WV if theres one near you go have a look see.

I don't live in West Virginia.

 

[vssjim]

I've from the UK and sadly our home grown tool brands went the same way as Craftsman, funnily enough though I've started collecting CM USA made tools!

I thought King **** was still a UK manufacturer and the few tools I have from them are well made and reasonable pricing. I knew that britool and sykes pickevant went to the dark side sadly as I do have a few made in UK Britool wrenches.

 

[crasher98]

What I miss about Sears Craftsman was being able to run out and get all sorts of tools -- e.g., examples I can still recall: 14 mm flex socket, thread restorer, long DBE wrench to get to a buried 1/4" bolt -- for as many hours as the local malls were open, which back then was a lot of hours. Now, the box stores are open plenty of hours but only have pretty basic tools, no NAPAs near me are open on Sundays, the generic auto parts store tools seem to be pretty sketchy, HF mostly only has sets (altho to be fair you can get a lot of specialized tools there w/ a jump in the car if you're near one...) Basically, it was nice to be able to get halfway decent tools during the hours that us driveway tinkerers tend to be tinkering.

 

[giants]

I kept buying new old stock up until recently. I got a lot of Snap-on with the student discount. I'd purchase a little off the trucks. Mostly it's SK and the the industrial tool companies: Proto, Wright and some of the Armstrong deadstock from Cripe.

Like you, I'm a student with the student discount, which helps, but the prices are still much higher than any non-tool truck brand.

How do the Snap-on tools compare to the other brands?

Would you recommend buying used Snap-ons, which apparently don't have lifetime warranties?

 

[giants]

I strayed and bought some HF, too, but found them to be sloppy and of inconsistent quality

Thanks.

Which HF tools were those?

Would you elaborate on their being sloppy and inconsistent?

 

[BDT/NWMN]

11 shopping days till Christmas.. Being the Wimmen make up over half the Shoppers, and Everyone recognizes the Craftsman name; That is what they will be buying. Remember to circle the items You want in the newspaper adds, but also remember to forget the newspaper add on the kitchen table.

 

[lardy1]

11 shopping days till Christmas.. Being the Wimmen make up over half the Shoppers, and Everyone recognizes the Craftsman name; That is what they will be buying. Remember to circle the items You want in the newspaper adds, but also remember to forget the newspaper add on the kitchen table.

Yep. I leave sticky notes on her end table with manufacturers name, model # and anything else pertinent. She usually won't buy them though because she knows when the bug bites, I'll just buy the stuff myself. She does have a point.

 

[hobby_guy]

Sears sure was convenient back in the day. When Craftsman came out with the large sized socket markings (vs the Snap On markings you need a magnifying glass to read) I bought a bunch of sockets. Then when Snap On's prices started their incremental rise in price, I started buying used on Ebay. Now that Ebay charges sales tax even on private party transactions (thanks a lot SCOTUS cucks), I don't really buy SO on Ebay. Now that SO changed their whole websiter policy (pricing, shipping), I don't buy SO at all. Fortunately, I have 99% I probably will ever need. Well, if I pick up a new hobby that could change.

 

[giants]

Sears sure was convenient back in the day. When Craftsman came out with the large sized socket markings (vs the Snap On markings you need a magnifying glass to read) I bought a bunch of sockets. Then when Snap On's prices started their incremental rise in price, I started buying used on Ebay. Now that Ebay charges sales tax even on private party transactions (thanks a lot SCOTUS cucks), I don't really buy SO on Ebay. Now that SO changed their whole websiter policy (pricing, shipping), I don't buy SO at all. Fortunately, I have 99% I probably will ever need. Well, if I pick up a new hobby that could change.

Thanks.

Have you had any problems, especially breakage, with used Snap-on tools you bought?

 

[Lprock]

New here, but here's my opinion.

Grew up on a farm in CA, Dad had all Craftsman tools. They really never let us down. If we broke them, Sears replaced it. And Sears was where my parents did most of the shopping, clothes, appliances, and tools. Most of my Dad's original Craftsmen tools got stolen, and he replaced them with more Craftsman tools right before things move to China. Still were good, except for the 3/8 ratchets, they broke all the time.

So naturally I bought Craftsman, got a few sets of USA Craftsman. But got some China Craftsman and hated them. And Sears started to ****. So bought a few Pittsburgh tools, they were same as China Craftsman. Really dislike them, they round fasteners.

Now I'm picking up a lot Proto, Blackhawk, SK, Snap On, and a few other older USA brands at estate sales and pawn shops for China tool prices. Still have my USA Craftsman. Now I'm passing on Craftsman. Really like the Proto stuff, and Carlyle has some really nice import ratchets.

 

[giants]

LProck, what sort of price deals are you getting at estate sales and pawn shops for sockets and ratchets?

Separately, last night, I heard a radio commencial for NAPA Auto Parts that they're now selling Craftsman. I couldn't hear all the details, though. Anyone know whether it's hand tools, power tools, or both?

While I was listening to the radio last night, I was cutting wood with my Craftsman 7-1/4" Circular Saw, made in China. It was a garage sale item that cost me $5-$10 ten years ago (I needed one and the alternative was a Black&Decker) and use only occasionally, but is seeing more use now that I'm doing more wood work. I couldn't be happier with it. On another thread, older Craftsman power tools were made by DeWalt, Porter Cable, or Delta. Might this have been made by Porter Cable, DeWalt, or Delta?

 

[Lprock]

Ratchets are hard to come by, but sockets and wrenches are plentiful.
The local pawn shops don't sell snap on very cheap, close to full retail. But they will sell all other USA brands for $1-3, yesterday picked up a thin powr Kraft 9/16-5/8 for a $1. Usually $1-2 for proto sockets.

Estate sales like get stuff sold in bulk so they will give great prices for a pile stuff. Usually get any brand socket for $.25-.50 and normal sized wrenches under 1-1/16 $1-4 and jumbo for $10 or less. Most Jumbo's that I see are made in Japan. Picked up a 50s era Williams superrench 1-1/6 for $2 on Friday.

 

[hobby_guy]

Thanks.

Have you had any problems, especially breakage, with used Snap-on tools you bought?

No, not at all. However, guys on fleabay charging way too much for used. My rule of thumb used to be 50% of new price max.

 

[LB-1911]

On another thread, older Craftsman power tools were made by DeWalt, Porter Cable, or Delta. Might this have been made by Porter Cable, DeWalt, or Delta?

The information below should be useful to you.

One frequently asked question concerning Sears tools is "Who made this product for Sears?"

Often the model number will have the form nnn.xxxxx, in which the 3 or 4 digit prefix indicates the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer).

Some prefixes have been used for more than one manufacturer, and several manufacturers have been assigned more than one prefix.


Source of above and list of OEM Codes @
http://vintagemachinery.org/Craftsman/manufacturers.aspx

 

[LB-1911]

Separately, last night, I heard a radio commencial for NAPA Auto Parts that they're now selling Craftsman. I couldn't hear all the details, though. Anyone know whether it's hand tools, power tools, or both?

"Déjà vu all over again"

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8215464&postcount=74