Outlawmws
Well-known member
Also does the spindle spin freely? if not that may be part of the motors prob. if it's just a start up issue is there a capacitor in the base? If so that is now ancient and needs replaced.
Craftsman Drill Press
- Thread starter FrankLee
- Start date
Warped5
Well-known member
Mercman, keep an eye on eBay and CL. Every once in awhile, a real clean motor will show up at an affordable price. On CL, don't be afraid to grab a table saw or band saw just to rob the motor off it.
Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
I had the same symptoms on the motor from dp#29... hum, no start. I removed it from the mount and tried again. This time I spun the pulley by hand while it was humming and it slowly accelerated up to speed after a few seconds. I believe this is a classic symptom of a bad start capacitor.
The capacitors on these motors are sardine-can shaped and mounted in the base. They are no longer available. You can get a cylindrical capacitor replacement and rig it somehow. I believe they are fairly inexpensive. I've never done it, but others have. Where in MI are you located? There are motor repair shops around. The specs may be printed on the old capacitor.
The bench model numbers of that era are either 103.23130 or 23131. The "2313" is the catalog number. I'm not sure what the last digit means.
I had the same symptoms on the motor from dp#29... hum, no start. I removed it from the mount and tried again. This time I spun the pulley by hand while it was humming and it slowly accelerated up to speed after a few seconds. I believe this is a classic symptom of a bad start capacitor.
The capacitors on these motors are sardine-can shaped and mounted in the base. They are no longer available. You can get a cylindrical capacitor replacement and rig it somehow. I believe they are fairly inexpensive. I've never done it, but others have. Where in MI are you located? There are motor repair shops around. The specs may be printed on the old capacitor.
The bench model numbers of that era are either 103.23130 or 23131. The "2313" is the catalog number. I'm not sure what the last digit means.
Last edited:
bubinga
Well-known member
True, I've paid as little as $15.00 for an old table saw.
Just make sure it's an 1725, not 3450 RPM.
Most table saws are 3450.
mercman1951
Well-known member
I noticed the "48". Figured that, thanks. Here is the table. It needs some work too.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Attachments
mercman1951
Well-known member
mercman1951
Well-known member
Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
Yes, even with the belt off, I have to give it a little nudge to spin. I guess I didn't even think of this little motor having a start capacitor (even though it says so on the badge!) Figured that was for bigger motors, but that makes sense. I also assumed it was a 23130, but I was bummed when I saw all of the original badging removed/missing, esp. the headband. It appears to have been repainted at some point in it's life; looks like primer overspray under the base, and as seen in the pics it's this weird bluish color... I'm in Hartland, but I work in Dearborn. Originally from Canton.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Yes, even with the belt off, I have to give it a little nudge to spin. I guess I didn't even think of this little motor having a start capacitor (even though it says so on the badge!) Figured that was for bigger motors, but that makes sense. I also assumed it was a 23130, but I was bummed when I saw all of the original badging removed/missing, esp. the headband. It appears to have been repainted at some point in it's life; looks like primer overspray under the base, and as seen in the pics it's this weird bluish color... I'm in Hartland, but I work in Dearborn. Originally from Canton.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Last edited:
mercman1951
Well-known member
Yes, it turns free. When I got it running, I put the belt on the smallest pulley. It actually ran pretty quietly. It wouldn't turn with the belt slipped onto a larger pully though. I was expecting bearing noises but it was not bad.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Locker537
Well-known member
I was able to snap a picture yesterday.
There is some interesting wear. It looks like someone must have put some force on it when it was unaligned, causing it to deform and mushroom a bit. I didn't try to reshape it with a file.
Even though FrankLee is on his 30th+ machine, no one warned me these awesome vintage machines like to multiply like Gremlins in the night...
The smaller machine is the one I bought from a member here. I've taken it apart and cleaned it using ample penetrating oil and WD-40 as a degreaser. I re-assembled and greased with Super Lube Synthetic grease as recommended here. The first issue discovered is the retaining screw above. The second issue, which may be a result of occasional misalignment is that the quill and pinion like to bind up during first use. After the quill spins a bit, everything starts to function as expected with a nice steady quill return tension and very very little vibration.
The larger machine was my uncle's father's machine. I'm fortunate that my uncle's family has very little interest in these old machines and he gracious gave it to me along with a few others similar era machines. I haven't done anything but take the motor off and lower the head frame to make moving it easier. Note the rust on the ring that the feed stop attaches to. That ring is very loose. I'm not sure what is going on there since I haven't taken it apart yet.
Attachments
bubinga
Well-known member
Yeah, I'd say you should be able to clean the dog screw up too.
As long as it's long enough.
As long as it's long enough.
droptical
Member
Re: Bearings
Hello Frank. I'm a new member and have been gleaning quite a bit of useful information from this thread over the last few weeks. I very much appreciate the detail included in your posts and of course your willingness to share your experience.
I have a question about the process of installing new bearings for the spindle/quill assembly of the Craftsman 150 drill press (103.24511.) I'm finding that maybe the best technique for assembling the bearings to the spindle would be to freeze the spindle and warm the bearings. What I'm not finding is the order or necessity of heating or cooling the quill in this process. Should I freeze both the spindle and quill while heating the bearings or should I assemble the bearings into the quill and then heat that assembly to install onto the spindle from the freezer? Or maybe something in between?
I'll be sharing more after I get this thing back together. In the meantime, here's what I started with.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lv0q6ioikavym0g/AAD645Ya0YsiJd4jj_fe0DGWa?dl=0
Thanks to anyone who might have experience to share.
Andy
Hello Frank. I'm a new member and have been gleaning quite a bit of useful information from this thread over the last few weeks. I very much appreciate the detail included in your posts and of course your willingness to share your experience.
I have a question about the process of installing new bearings for the spindle/quill assembly of the Craftsman 150 drill press (103.24511.) I'm finding that maybe the best technique for assembling the bearings to the spindle would be to freeze the spindle and warm the bearings. What I'm not finding is the order or necessity of heating or cooling the quill in this process. Should I freeze both the spindle and quill while heating the bearings or should I assemble the bearings into the quill and then heat that assembly to install onto the spindle from the freezer? Or maybe something in between?
I'll be sharing more after I get this thing back together. In the meantime, here's what I started with.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lv0q6ioikavym0g/AAD645Ya0YsiJd4jj_fe0DGWa?dl=0
Thanks to anyone who might have experience to share.
Andy
Last edited:
Re: Bearings
Hello Andy,
Thanks and welcome! That's a very nice machine... another diamond in the rough.
IIRC, here's what I did (or would do):
Hello Andy,
Thanks and welcome! That's a very nice machine... another diamond in the rough.
IIRC, here's what I did (or would do):
- freeze the spindle, heat and install the lower bearing
- freeze the spindle and lower bearing, heat and install the lower end of the quill
- freeze spindle, lower bearing and quill, heat and install the upper bearing
- be prepared to press on the upper until fully seated into the quill
droptical
Member
Re: Bearings
Thanks Frank. That's just what I was looking for. I'll let you know how it works out.
Andy
Thanks Frank. That's just what I was looking for. I'll let you know how it works out.
Andy
ckadams00
Well-known member
As others have said these machines do seem to breed when left alone, I am just starting a teardown of three floor models that have spent the winter in my garage. (Pics will be coming - yesterday I took about 20 before I realized I didn't have a memory card in my camera
).
Frank - wanted to thank you for your patented method of removing the bases. I had one that was really rusty. Soaked them with PB Blaster all morning and then used your BFH and 2x4 trick and it worked like a charm on all of them!
).Frank - wanted to thank you for your patented method of removing the bases. I had one that was really rusty. Soaked them with PB Blaster all morning and then used your BFH and 2x4 trick and it worked like a charm on all of them!
ckadams00
Well-known member
Frank - two questions as I revisit this whole thread prior to tearing into my three DPs. One - I never thought to ask this before - what are the T-slots on the base useful for? 
Second - you have a DP table in post #130 - do you know where that came from? One of the DPs I picked up had an extra table and it is the exact same one. . . .wondering if these had anything to do with these presses or if it's just a coincidence since it fits the column.
Second - you have a DP table in post #130 - do you know where that came from? One of the DPs I picked up had an extra table and it is the exact same one. . . .wondering if these had anything to do with these presses or if it's just a coincidence since it fits the column.
As others have said these machines do seem to breed when left alone, I am just starting a teardown of three floor models that have spent the winter in my garage. (Pics will be coming - yesterday I took about 20 before I realized I didn't have a memory card in my camera
Frank - wanted to thank you for your patented method of removing the bases. I had one that was really rusty. Soaked them with PB Blaster all morning and then used your BFH and 2x4 trick and it worked like a charm on all of them!
You're very welcome. Yes, a BFH is a very versatile tool.
Frank - two questions as I revisit this whole thread prior to tearing into my three DPs. One - I never thought to ask this before - what are the T-slots on the base useful for?
Second - you have a DP table in post #130 - do you know where that came from? One of the DPs I picked up had an extra table and it is the exact same one. . . .wondering if these had anything to do with these presses or if it's just a coincidence since it fits the column.
I'm not real sure what the t-slots were designed for, but they could hold a vise or other clamping device for larger/taller work.
That table is from the second generation of Emerson Craftsman machines. I like that it's all one plane.
Fourth(?) generation Emerson tables (below) first appear in the 1974/75 catalog. They are similar, but have a raised plateau and a thicker under-frame. Outlawmws posted the photo below in an earlier post.
Last edited:
droptical
Member
Re: Bearings
Well, my first attempt has failed -
I left the spindle in the freezer overnight at 0 degrees and heated the bearing on a 150 watt bulb for 30 minutes. With that, the bearing would barely start over the splines I've turned the freezer down to -6 now (as low as it will go) and will try again in a couple of hours. Any recommendations on how to go about heating the bearing?
At room temperature the bearing ID is .622 and the spindle OD is .625. I had also checked for burrs on the spindle before putting it in the freezer last night.
Andy
Well, my first attempt has failed -
I left the spindle in the freezer overnight at 0 degrees and heated the bearing on a 150 watt bulb for 30 minutes. With that, the bearing would barely start over the splines
I've turned the freezer down to -6 now (as low as it will go) and will try again in a couple of hours. Any recommendations on how to go about heating the bearing?At room temperature the bearing ID is .622 and the spindle OD is .625. I had also checked for burrs on the spindle before putting it in the freezer last night.
Andy
Re: Bearings
Hmmm. Where did you order bearings? What bearing number? What were the specs? What do the old bearings measure?
I don't think any lower freezer temp or time is going to help. Ten minutes of heating the bearing should be plenty.
Maybe measure the very end of the spindle on each spline pair.
Well, my first attempt has failed -
I left the spindle in the freezer overnight at 0 degrees and heated the bearing on a 150 watt bulb for 30 minutes. With that, the bearing would barely start over the splines
At room temperature the bearing ID is .622 and the spindle OD is .625. I had also checked for burrs on the spindle before putting it in the freezer last night.
Andy
Hmmm. Where did you order bearings? What bearing number? What were the specs? What do the old bearings measure?
I don't think any lower freezer temp or time is going to help. Ten minutes of heating the bearing should be plenty.
Maybe measure the very end of the spindle on each spline pair.
Last edited:
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Agree.
That is pretty much a good solid press fit. Even if you manage 300" F difference, it will still probably be an interference fit. A light bulb's surface is about 400 degrees but you will lose a lot by the time you get it onto the spindle, and the spindle will start cooling it immediately...
That is pretty much a good solid press fit. Even if you manage 300" F difference, it will still probably be an interference fit. A light bulb's surface is about 400 degrees but you will lose a lot by the time you get it onto the spindle, and the spindle will start cooling it immediately...
droptical
Member
Re: Bearings
New bearings are NSK 6202-10ZZ .6225 ID 1.377 OD
Old bearings are Nachi 620251ZZ .622 ID 1.377 OD
The spline pairs do vary to over .625 frozen. I'll thaw it out and take a closer look at the variances.
Thanks for the suggestions!
New bearings are NSK 6202-10ZZ .6225 ID 1.377 OD
Old bearings are Nachi 620251ZZ .622 ID 1.377 OD
The spline pairs do vary to over .625 frozen. I'll thaw it out and take a closer look at the variances.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Last edited:
ckadams00
Well-known member
Frank, I can't keep up with you but here are presses 3, 4, and 5 for me.
L-R are 103.23141 "100", 103.24511 "150" with original 1/2 HP motor, Emmerson "150" 113.24511
At this stage I am going over them and trying to determine a plan of attack. Your thread helps tremendously and I have learned a lot. I would love to keep one for wood and one for metal but I don't have the room . . .so two of them will get sold.
L-R are 103.23141 "100", 103.24511 "150" with original 1/2 HP motor, Emmerson "150" 113.24511
At this stage I am going over them and trying to determine a plan of attack. Your thread helps tremendously and I have learned a lot. I would love to keep one for wood and one for metal but I don't have the room . . .so two of them will get sold.
Last edited:
ckadams00
Well-known member
Frank I had started a thread of my own on these presses last summer and got sidetracked - but I'm at it again. I don't want to hijack yours!
It's not a competition, but an equally shared enthusiasm for old well-built machines.
Those first two look especially clean.
I'm contemplating selling my wood machine (#3) as I don't use it that much. I may have an interested party through my brother, but haven't heard from him yet.
I've got dp#30 torn down, mostly cleaned and started reassembly. I think I have a buyer for this one too... the same guy that has dp#23 and dp#25.
So with 5 machines, have you started to notice a pattern of issues? Any unique problems on any?
I don't mind any Craftsman drill press related posts in this thread, but by having your own thread, you may get a wider variety of comments and participation. I have been following your thread with much interest.
Last edited:
I received the following question in a PM and thought it might be of general interest, so I'm answering here.
The size of a drill press is determined by the center of the largest piece of material that will fit between the column and the center of the bit. So, a 15” drill press will drill the center of a 15” diameter piece of material, that is, the distance from the center of the bit to the column is 7½”.
The size of a drill press is determined by the center of the largest piece of material that will fit between the column and the center of the bit. So, a 15” drill press will drill the center of a 15” diameter piece of material, that is, the distance from the center of the bit to the column is 7½”.
Last edited:
Outlawmws
Well-known member
Great summary Frank! Well done!
Indexmill
Well-known member
I was the guy that asked Franklee the size question.
Thank you very much for the awesome answer!
One more question: Are all parts interchangeable between the 15 1/2 and the 13 1/2?
Indexmill.
Thank you very much for the awesome answer!
One more question: Are all parts interchangeable between the 15 1/2 and the 13 1/2?
Indexmill.
Last edited:
bubinga
Well-known member
here is the 150 with the center pulley I did, and the treadmill motor.
Just a single speed on the motor. Not a step pulley.
My thinking was/is higher RPM at motor, for more torque, But still slow(er) speed at spindle.
Something to fool around with.
Sound and video is a little choppy.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XYtWwAqu7Zo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Just a single speed on the motor. Not a step pulley.
My thinking was/is higher RPM at motor, for more torque, But still slow(er) speed at spindle.
Something to fool around with.
Sound and video is a little choppy.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XYtWwAqu7Zo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
ckadams00
Well-known member
Frank picking up #6 in the am this one is a 150 with a slow speed pulley. Question for you as I break four machines down: what is the easiest way to check the spindle runout?
Congrats on #6!
Firstly, I am not an expert. My opinion on run-out regarding these Craftsman drill presses is that these machines sold at Sears were marketed for homeowner use in home shops. They are not ultra-precision machines... some run-out is inevitable. Acceptable run-out may depend on the material. Run-out when boring wood may be more tolerable than boring metal.
The easiest way to check for excessive run-out is to look and feel for a wobble. When I'm inspecting a drill press for purchase, that's all I check regarding run-out. I turn the motor pulley by hand and look for wobble in the chuck. I also bring a hardened machined steel dowel, tighten it in the chuck, run the machine and feel for wobble. I have a dial indicator, but usually don't bring it with me.
Last edited:
Outlawmws
Well-known member
To look for run-out without a dial indicator, (while on a buying run) you can:
It is amazing how good the naked eye is at spotting a wobble with a point of reference. While its not measured, you can get a quick idea and feel for how bad it is..
If the rod wobbles, try again on the round parts of the chuck and upwards if possible to try to pin down if it's a bad chuck or if its the spindle.
- find or bring some straight drillrod stock (maybe keep on in your rig?) and chuck it. (if nothing else use a straight drill upside down?)
- use a block of wood and something as a pointer and get it close to the rod
- turn the top pulley by hand (maybe loosen the belt?)
- Watch for apparent wobble as you turn the pulley
It is amazing how good the naked eye is at spotting a wobble with a point of reference. While its not measured, you can get a quick idea and feel for how bad it is..
If the rod wobbles, try again on the round parts of the chuck and upwards if possible to try to pin down if it's a bad chuck or if its the spindle.
droptical
Member
Re: Bearings
The very ends of the spline were the culprit. Once I got them honed back into shape the warmed bearing just fell onto the frozen spindle.
Thanks for everyone's input!
Andy
The very ends of the spline were the culprit. Once I got them honed back into shape the warmed bearing just fell onto the frozen spindle.
Thanks for everyone's input!
Andy
Re: Bearings
Good news!
I can't say I've seen it all, but I've run across a lot of fup'd parts. I always wonder what previous owners do to mess up these machines.
The very ends of the spline were the culprit. Once I got them honed back into shape the warmed bearing just fell onto the frozen spindle.
Thanks for everyone's input!
Andy
Good news!
I can't say I've seen it all, but I've run across a lot of fup'd parts. I always wonder what previous owners do to mess up these machines.
Jeep Monkey RTR
Well-known member
Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
Good morning, based on the size of this thread, I am sure this has been discussed but I am a little pressed for time and hoping for a little help. I happened upon a Craftsman 150 that I am going to look at during lunch today.
It appears to be in great shape but I'm curious to know what I should be looking for prior to purchase.
I see the discussion about checking for excessive Run Out (a few posts ago). Are there any other big things to look for?
I am hoping this one is a good buy because they aren't for sale often in my Neck of the woods.
Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good morning, based on the size of this thread, I am sure this has been discussed but I am a little pressed for time and hoping for a little help. I happened upon a Craftsman 150 that I am going to look at during lunch today.
It appears to be in great shape but I'm curious to know what I should be looking for prior to purchase.
I see the discussion about checking for excessive Run Out (a few posts ago). Are there any other big things to look for?
I am hoping this one is a good buy because they aren't for sale often in my Neck of the woods.
Thanks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
I think the over-all condition tells a lot about a used machine. If it's relatively clean, it was probably taken care of. A neglected machine is likely ok too... some rust is ok. Look for signs of abuse such as broken or missing parts, many holes in the table.
Regardless of the appearance, a quick check for run-out is very important. Even the nicest looking machine can have a bent spindle.
The sound of the motor, quill and spindle pulley is a tell-tale sign. If loud, bearings need attention.
Check this post for how I move a drill press:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5362688&post5362688
I think the over-all condition tells a lot about a used machine. If it's relatively clean, it was probably taken care of. A neglected machine is likely ok too... some rust is ok. Look for signs of abuse such as broken or missing parts, many holes in the table.
Regardless of the appearance, a quick check for run-out is very important. Even the nicest looking machine can have a bent spindle.
The sound of the motor, quill and spindle pulley is a tell-tale sign. If loud, bearings need attention.
Check this post for how I move a drill press:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5362688&post5362688
Last edited:
Jeep Monkey RTR
Well-known member
Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
Frank,
Thank you for the response. I will check all those things today when I see it and will likely post up a picture, if I buy it.
Frank,
Thank you for the response. I will check all those things today when I see it and will likely post up a picture, if I buy it.
ckadams00
Well-known member
Jeep Monkey RTR
Well-known member
Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
Yes I did buy and yes, I probably overpaid. Unfortunately for me I have not had time to mess around with it since I unloaded from my trailer.
Right now we are in the middle of All Star baseball with our son and, for anyone who's is or has been there, the schedule is daunting to say the least. I spent about 6 hours awake at my house last week and was at the ball field all weekend.
This weekend is a NO BASEBALL weekend and I will get pictures up... I promise.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So . . .? Buy it?
Yes I did buy and yes, I probably overpaid. Unfortunately for me I have not had time to mess around with it since I unloaded from my trailer.
Right now we are in the middle of All Star baseball with our son and, for anyone who's is or has been there, the schedule is daunting to say the least. I spent about 6 hours awake at my house last week and was at the ball field all weekend.
This weekend is a NO BASEBALL weekend and I will get pictures up... I promise.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ckadams00
Well-known member
Frank thanks for all the great info and congrats on 1000 posts!