Outlawmws
Well-known member
Solid Steel post? what does that sucker weigh?
Nice find!
Nice find!
Craftsman Drill Press
- Thread starter FrankLee
- Start date
Re: dp#66
No rotary table. I did get all the Proto puller parts sitting on the base.
The seller had a poorly advertised garage sale yesterday and I didn't see the FB ad until today. I was still able to get a hold of him and luckily the drill press was still available. I picked some other things, but he said I missed a bunch of good stuff yesterday.
No rotary table. I did get all the Proto puller parts sitting on the base.
The seller had a poorly advertised garage sale yesterday and I didn't see the FB ad until today. I was still able to get a hold of him and luckily the drill press was still available. I picked some other things, but he said I missed a bunch of good stuff yesterday.
jkherd
Well-known member
Junkman
Well-known member
I am at the stage where I just don't know what way to go.. Do I use the head that is on my tall drill press (150) that was manufactured prior to 1967 when I originally purchased it used (painted grey from the factory), or the one that I just picked up, painted gold with the later improvements (???) to the head. Either way, both heads should be taken apart, cleaned and new bearings installed. I had disassembled and painted my original one about 10 years ago, but the information in this thread wasn't available, and I never took the quill apart. It had a wobble in it then, and after painting and reassembly, I haven't used it because of the wobble in the quill.
I was thinking that I could swap the heads, and keep them both, or sell the bench model (with either head) as is, and let the next buyer put new bearings into the quill.
My question is, which would be the better one to keep, the grey one (pre 1967) or the gold one, which I don't know its age. My tall press is missing its data plate. I removed it when I painted the base, and misplaced it. The numbers on the data plate (gold one) are 103.24521
I was thinking that I could swap the heads, and keep them both, or sell the bench model (with either head) as is, and let the next buyer put new bearings into the quill.
My question is, which would be the better one to keep, the grey one (pre 1967) or the gold one, which I don't know its age. My tall press is missing its data plate. I removed it when I painted the base, and misplaced it. The numbers on the data plate (gold one) are 103.24521
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From what I can gather, the gold machine has the external spring tension knob and the grey one doesn't.(?)
My preference is the Craftsman 100 casting, but I upgraded every sub-assembly with later improved parts; quill with snap ring, feed handle hub with 1/2-13 threads, pivot motor mount, rapid adjust feed stop. I guess you could say it's a Craftsman 125.
I've also found that the King-Seeley castings seem to be better than the Emerson castings.
sheltonfilms
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 28, 2014
- Messages
- 157
From what I can gather, the gold machine has the external spring tension knob and the grey one doesn't.(?)
My preference is the Craftsman 100 casting, but I upgraded every sub-assembly with later improved parts; quill with snap ring, feed handle hub with 1/2-13 threads, pivot motor mount, rapid adjust feed stop. I guess you could say it's a Craftsman 125.
I've also found that the King-Seeley castings seem to be better than the Emerson castings.
What differences have you seen in the castings? Is there some design changes or is it more in the quality of the cast?
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I would determine what is causing the wobble before deciding the course of action. Unless the bearings have gotten to the gritty, grinding, howling, balls ready to fall out of the races stage, they don't normally cause much runout. Remove the chuck and check the spindle runout. If it's okay, clean both spindle and chuck tapers really well, looking for any burrs or rust. Reassemble and check runout again. If the runout is from the chuck try the one from the other drill. If the spindle is bent either keep the other one or Frankenstein the two together using the best of both.
sl954
Member
Awesome thread! just starting a refurbish of a late model 150.
Re: DP#66 with Table Lift
For those without the slow speed or the vari-slo that find use in raising or lowering the head as well as the table you could use 2 thinner needle roller thrust bearings, one on the inside and one on the outside.
Personally I have not found a need to lower the head on a DP, but given the wide range of accessories that Craftsman marketed for these, some may have been easier to use with a lowered head.
For those without the slow speed or the vari-slo that find use in raising or lowering the head as well as the table you could use 2 thinner needle roller thrust bearings, one on the inside and one on the outside.
Personally I have not found a need to lower the head on a DP, but given the wide range of accessories that Craftsman marketed for these, some may have been easier to use with a lowered head.
dp#67, dp#68
My winter projects are reaching capacity. dp#67 is a Craftsman 12-1/4" model 103.23100. dp#68 is a Craftsman 150 model 113.24501. Neither motors are Craftsman.
10/1/2019
The column and cast iron on dp#68 cleaned up nicely.
10/09/2019
dp#66 and dp#68 cast iron is cleaned. Most internal parts are cleaned. Motors are cleaned with new cords.
10/12/2019
DP#68 is complete and is a beauty!
My winter projects are reaching capacity. dp#67 is a Craftsman 12-1/4" model 103.23100. dp#68 is a Craftsman 150 model 113.24501. Neither motors are Craftsman.
10/1/2019
The column and cast iron on dp#68 cleaned up nicely.
10/09/2019
dp#66 and dp#68 cast iron is cleaned. Most internal parts are cleaned. Motors are cleaned with new cords.
10/12/2019
DP#68 is complete and is a beauty!
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
"Winter is Coming..." (Wolf howls in the background)
sheltonfilms
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- May 28, 2014
- Messages
- 157
Craptain
Well-known member
Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
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And why isn't it in your shop/garage?This one looks really good.
On facebook market place for $50
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Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
bsorcs
Member
So...I used the Practical Machinist guidance and deduced from the continuities that the motor is wired delta. The diagram on the inside of the wiring access plate of the motor directs me to supply power as though it is Wye wired...L1 to 1 and 7; L2 to 2 and 8; L3 to 3 and 9; and 4-6 together. Based on the continuities I wired for delta...L1 to 1,6,7; L2, 2,4,8; and L3 to 3,5,9. Next I revisited the switch diagram and got that straight, as per the pic previously posted. Result was that the motor ran like a top in both directions, sans smoke. Called it a day.
Subsequently, I ran the motor for a couple of minutes to ScotchBrite the chuck. On stopping the motor I noted that it was too hot to touch...sort of like bad bearings on an axle after a run. Only thing I can think of is to try re-wiring L1 - L3 in the wye configuration, now that I have the switch wiring straight. Any thought on this? More and more confused.
bsorcs
Member
So...I used the Practical Machinist guidance and deduced from the continuities that the motor is wired delta. The diagram on the inside of the wiring access plate of the motor directs me to supply power as though it is Wye wired...L1 to 1 and 7; L2 to 2 and 8; L3 to 3 and 9; and 4,5 and 6 together. Based on the continuities I wired for delta...L1 to 1,6,7; L2 to 2,4,8; and L3 to 3,5,9. Next I revisited the switch diagram and got that straight, as per the pic previously posted. Result was that the motor ran like a top in both directions, sans smoke. Called it a day.
Subsequently, I ran the motor for a couple of minutes to ScotchBrite the chuck. On stopping the motor I noted that it was too hot to touch...sort of like bad bearings on an axle after a run. Only thing I can think of is to try re-wiring L1 - L3 in the wye configuration, now that I have the switch wiring straight. Any thought on this? More and more confused.
ClappedOutBport
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- Mar 30, 2016
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- 998
Uh, maybe a dumb question, but: are the bearings good? Otherwise, I dunno.
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I would wire as the diagram on the access plate. If you discovered you had an error in the switch wiring that could have been the issue. I would also try running it with the belt disconnected to remove any other possible causes for overheating (belt alignment, spindle bearings)
bsorcs
Member
The motor is a new, 1/2 hp, Lincoln 3-phase, so I am assuming that the bearings therein are good. As I noted earlier, wired delta it ran well in both directions but heated up, excessively to my mind. Today I changed the wiring to match the wye diagram provided: L1 to 1-7; L2 to 2-8; and L3 to 3-9. It started and ran very slowly without load, and soon gave off a bit of smoke. This suggests to me a couple of things.
1-That the provided diagram is incorrect and that, based on the check of engine-lead continuities, the motor is indeed wired delta.
2-There is a problem in how I wired the switch. The wiring diagram therein does not label the leads, so I assumed that I could start at one side of the three leads and call that one L1, then proceed through the other two, with L2 being the 240-volt leg. I'll revisit the diagram yet again tomorrow and check continuities and potentials coming out of the switch.
Beyond the above, I am at a loss as to why the motor seems to be running hot. I'll try to get in touch with the manufacturer to see if they can elucidate a solution.
If you can post a picture of your switch it would help.
You could also remove the switch from the equation. Wire the motor direct to test. That will show if it is a switch or motor wiring issue.
bsorcs
Member
Finally photos. Mea Culpa.
Re-visited the dp once again. Cords, switch, and delta connections in order; high leg [L2] connection in the switch was loose. Tightened the connection. Started and measured current in the 3 legs into the motor leads: L1[blk] 8.2a; L2[red] 9.5a; L3[wht] 9.8a. I have no idea how close currents in the individual legs should be.
Forward and reverse in order; quiet run; no smoke/spark/etc.
Per the photo, the motor is TE, not TEFC, unfortunately it seems. It got warm.
I put a call in to Leeson and will send motor tag photo. The motor is definitely NOS; could be 20+ years old. If Leeson cannot help, I'll take it to my favorite motor shop for a checkup.
Re-visited the dp once again. Cords, switch, and delta connections in order; high leg [L2] connection in the switch was loose. Tightened the connection. Started and measured current in the 3 legs into the motor leads: L1[blk] 8.2a; L2[red] 9.5a; L3[wht] 9.8a. I have no idea how close currents in the individual legs should be.
Forward and reverse in order; quiet run; no smoke/spark/etc.
Per the photo, the motor is TE, not TEFC, unfortunately it seems. It got warm.
I put a call in to Leeson and will send motor tag photo. The motor is definitely NOS; could be 20+ years old. If Leeson cannot help, I'll take it to my favorite motor shop for a checkup.
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Your switch wiring appears correct, but your current readings are 4 times higher than they should be. Something is not right.
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Re: The Classic Craftsman 100/150 Drill Press
I have a full size one i am restoring right now
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I have a full size one i am restoring right now
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bsorcs
Member
Stellar observation. So, might there be an issue with the power coming out of the outlet? It's 120v, 240v, and 120v at a, b, and c...V = i x R. I'll check current entering the switch. Where else to look? Sounds kinda like a trip to the motor shop. I am still quite puzzled about the low-voltage wye wiring diagram on the inside of the wiring plate...L1 to 1,7 L2 to 2,8, L3 to 3,9. Maybe the Leeson folks can shed some light on that.
I'm just a simple geochemist, not a physics major.
Just had a thought: motor ambient temperature per the tag is 65 degrees Celsius. I don't think that I can hold my hand against that for more that few seconds based on time in a hot tub at 108 F. Might this be some sort of resolution [althought it does NOT explain the amperage issue]?
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Measure the voltages at the line terminals at the switch, you should have 240 between any two pairs.
That temperature rating is the max environmental temperature (the air surrounding the motor) that the motor can be operated in.
bsorcs
Member
240v present between all pairs. I'm going to take it to the shop.
Probably your best bet.
It really should be wired wye if that's what the data plate shows. Wiring delta instead could be the cause of the high current draw (and heat), but the question is why doesn't it run connected wye if that is its design? Bad winding? Mis-numbered winding wires? It is quite puzzling for sure.
gpw_42
Well-known member
Found this (late?) 150 for sale on the net; seller states it needs a new power cord (cracked) and belt. I've asked for pic of the table and the other side of the DP. Seller said it'd be tonight before he can send pics, which is reasonable. This might be my 1st DP. It's a 2 hour drive (in each direction).
Is there anything else I need to ask about before I go buy this thing? Any obvious warning signs in these pictures? Or should I just squat and hold till something closer comes along? Price is reasonable.
Thanks!
Update 10/9/19
The easy to remove parts are off the head.
To do:
- replace the electric cord
- remove the quill
- get an AutoZone belt
- get FrankLee's replacement washer & quill bumper set
- test runout
- disassemble chuck for cleaning. It opens/closes well.
Cosmetics:
- finish cleaning
- strip & paint (?)
- finish getting back to bare metal on table, column and base. Then coat all with paste wax.
Is there anything else I need to ask about before I go buy this thing? Any obvious warning signs in these pictures? Or should I just squat and hold till something closer comes along? Price is reasonable.
Thanks!
Update 10/9/19
The easy to remove parts are off the head.
To do:
- replace the electric cord
- remove the quill
- get an AutoZone belt
- get FrankLee's replacement washer & quill bumper set
- test runout
- disassemble chuck for cleaning. It opens/closes well.
Cosmetics:
- finish cleaning
- strip & paint (?)
- finish getting back to bare metal on table, column and base. Then coat all with paste wax.
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It's actually a late 100, but that's good. It looks rough, but complete. If you're up to a complete refurb with re-painting, it will be a great machine.
If the motor runs, that's pretty much all the seller can say. Most issues are discovered upon personal inspection and tear-down.
I've done several two hour trips for these machines.
Unsure, but because the late 100 post above by gpw_42 has the newer base, I suspect the change occurred in the '56 or '57 model year. It first showed up in a 1960 catalog illustration.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4325791&post4325791
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
On the recent Motor issue with 240. I haven't been looking closely but just has a random thought; are we talking 240 3 phase, or 220 (technically 240) single - (at either end...)
Yeah, seems to be hard to pin down. 1957 catalog shows older style, but it was probably printed in 1956. Not sure, but I think that on occasion they just used the same artwork from a previous year if there were no major changes. Also possible older bases got broken and replaced with a newer one.
I agree. Illustrations were not updated as quickly as the machines. This manual of a Craftsman 150 shows the older base: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/7332.pdf
The manual also shows the older ball-end headstock and table lock handles on the bench moel illustration. They would be the taper style. The headstock trim panel on the floor-standing illustration looks poorly "photoshopped".
Because the late 100 above has the new base, I believe all 150's would have had the newer base.
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gpw_42
Well-known member
FrankLee, thanks for the quick and informative follow-up. 24 hours later and seller still hasn't responded with the requested pic, so I guess he sold it otherwise. I'm not into the idea of a complete restoration project for $100 entry point, so it's probably just as well. Minor work (cord replacement) and rust removal, I'd probably have gone after it this morning.
There's a ton of detailed info on this thread, which I'm just starting to scratch the surface of.
gpw_42
Well-known member
Well, I couldn't control myself...the seller responded a little later than I wanted, but with the requested extra pictures, plus I was able to set up a dinner with a buddy afterwards. So, I bought the Craftsman 100, model 103.24530. More project than I'd really intended, but it was the cheapest 100/150 I could find. Seller demonstrated that the motor spins freely, and quietly, even with the old dry rotted cord.
Started cleaning up the DP yesterday, with nothing significant to report. I'm amazed by how much better the table looks after a little soap and cold water. Working the column over with a grinder and a wire wheel sure left my hands tingling for a bit. Need to find some paste wax to protect the column (it's humid here), then clean the bare metal areas of the (non-angle adjustsable) table and stand. FrankLee was spot-on about the later model base on my DP. Sharp eyes...
The easy to remove parts are off the head.
To do:
- replace the electric cord
- remove the quill
- get an AutoZone belt
- get FrankLee's replacement washer & quill bumper set
- test runout
- disassemble chuck for cleaning. It opens/closes well.
Cosmetics:
- finish cleaning
- strip & paint (?)
- finish getting back to bare metal on table, column and base. Then coat all with paste wax.