Craftsman from China - really that bad?

[thwaller]

I am new here, but this is the reason I came. I own a large amount of Craftsman tools dating back to the 1990's to the pre-2010's. I have recently acquired some of the new Craftsman products, no longer made in the USA. I understand that in the beginning of the transition, there were some quality issues. But the products I received, specifically some E and T sockets and one 1/2 drive socket, do not seem all that bad. They hold up just fine, have no abnormal size, and in my opinion, seem no different in functionality to the former made in USA versions.

My question to you fine folks is simple ... I hear a lot of bashing of the new China made Craftsman. Is this based on real fact, or the opinion that China makes ****? I mean not to argue, but to discuss real fact vs opinions. Does one break sooner than the other given use within spec? Is one sized differently to where it causes issues with use? I refer specifically to the current made product. Again, I understand but have not purchased the initial product after transition where the designs had numerous issues.

Thanks guys, I hope for a productive and polite conversation.

 

[Negen]

My opinion is that no it's not really that bad but for the price and with gj and other internet sources better tools for equal or less money can be found. And really great tools can be found for just a small amount more than China craftsman sells for.

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[zendriver]

I have a set of Chinese 3/8 specialty sockets (torx hex etc) that came with a ratchet, it seems as nice and solid as my American made 1/2 from an older set.

On the flipside, I have the 1/4 that seems rather flimsy, but maybe it's American counterparts is as well.

Regarding their other stuff, I have their Chinese made cordless drills and impact drivers,work perfect for 10 years,now.

IMO like most things from China, the quality continues to improve,sometimes substantially.

We'll see what they look like when they start making them here again.

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[Ole Slewfoot]

Last Cman tool I bought a few months ago broke within an hour of buying it, and it was US made, so I don't know what to tell you. The one from the Snap On truck cost about 3x more, but still works.

 

[stonesg]

It's hit and miss just like anything from China.

I have a friend who's an engineer who travels to China regularly for his company strictly to keep up with quality and process controls for the parts the Chinese supplier is manufacturing for them. He says the Chinese can make anything to any quality standard you want but you have to keep a consent close eye on them.

That said, it's like in Harbor Freight, you have to judge each tools quality and value individually and not rely on the brand name.

 

[kythri]

I don't own much/any, but have had a couple opportunities to use some. They're not "bad" - some of the earlier stuff, I don't like the aesthetics, and there's possible fitment issues (fat head, tight spaces), but they're solid, functional tools.

Personally, though, I don't feel like paying what they're asking, when I can get same quality cheaper, or better quality for the same price.

When Craftsman's hardline was majority US-production, it occupied a nifty space - it wasn't import pricing, but also wasn't close to typical US-production pricing.

Now that it's majority import, it's kind of a premium-priced import, and I don't feel that the value is there anymore.

If I was starting over with the market this very moment, I'd likely look elsewhere to replace my Craftsman stuff, but I wouldn't turn it down if it was free.

The 299-piece socket set is still a hell of a deal when it's on sale.

 

[McFarmer]

It could be twice as good at half the price and it wouldn’t be for me.

My money, my choice.

 

[Mr_B]

Not a case of it totally useless but more it minimal design features and pretty easy buy better for the price range if desired .

 

[wolf_from_wv]

The problem I have, is that I can go to Home Depot and get a made in China socket for about a third of the price of the Craftsman made in China socket. Lowes is about half the price. Autozone is about the same.

 

[R_einan]

My experience is the same of late as Slewfoot, the last Craftsman tool I purchased was a 3/8 dr, Craftsman industrial (US production) 1/4 hex bit, broke off in my oil pan drain bolt and spent 20 minutes with a pick trying to get the remaining piece out of the drain bolt. And that’s not even a high torque bolt, like 30 ft lbs! No more for me thanks, I replaced it, and every other Craftsman hex bit with Proto. Hopefully never to have that issue again.

I’ll buy Proto, Williams, SK, or Wright online and stay away from sears. Not much more money, but the piece of mind is worth it to me.

 

[nh_yota]

My problem with Craftsman is that you're paying USA prices for Chinese tools.

 

[buckwheat_la]

It's hit and miss just like anything from China.

I have a friend who's an engineer who travels to China regularly for his company strictly to keep up with quality and process controls for the parts the Chinese supplier is manufacturing for them. He says the Chinese can make anything to any quality standard you want but you have to keep a consent close eye on them.

That said, it's like in Harbor Freight, you have to judge each tools quality and value individually and not rely on the brand name.

Exactly this. It isn't about COO anymore, or workers pay. It's about quality control. Anyone, anywhere can make great tools.

 

[buckwheat_la]

My problem with Craftsman is that you're paying USA prices for Chinese tools.

Really? What is the cheapest manufacturer of tools in the USA? SK? Show me anywhere where Craftsman is on the same price point as something made USA

 

[wolf_from_wv]

They didn't lower their prices when they started making them in China.

 

[bwringer]

Agreed -- they kept the name and the same middle of the road pricing but swapped in ****** low end Chinese tools. That's the issue most of us here have with this move -- they pulled a fast one purely to increase profits and hoped no one would notice.

And it mostly worked, I guess -- tool geeks like us are the only ones who noticed or cared.

To give just one simple example, compare an older US-made raised panel 10mm wrench with the new Chinesium version. The new version looks about the same from a distance, but has a fat "lobster claw" open end and visibly crappier, inconsistent broaching on the box end. (For a time, you could still find both on the shelf, so comparisons were easy.)

And yeah, it does make a difference. I work on a lot of motorcycles and there are definitely times when you need the slimmer open end to reach something. And of course the broaching on the box end makes a difference in how hard you can pull on the thing.

Hell, they even sound different if you drop them on the floor. What shortcuts did they take in the metallurgy and heat treatment?

I bought a set of US-made MasterForce wrenches at Menard's not long ago for this reason -- they're basically the closest thing you could get to the old, extraordinarily useful Craftsman RP design. Not slathered in thick, ****** chrome -- nice matte finish you can get a grip on. Slim open end and nice broaching on the box end.

Of course, Menard's is phasing out US-made MasterForce wrenches and sockets in favor of Taiwanese (and some Chinese) GearWrench and Chinese Crescent branded stuff. The GearWrench stuff is mostly OK-ish, but the wrenches still have that %$#@&! lobster claw open end, and are slathered with slippery crappy chrome...

Like many of you, I've got lots of Chinese tools in my garage and I've done a lot of useful things with them. But I paid Chinese prices for them, I understood what I was getting, and I understand their limitations. For example, I wouldn't have a hydraulic press at all -- a US-made version is five to ten times the price.

What most of us resent is the deceptive aspect of swapping in low-quality, differently designed Chinese tools masquerading as classic Craftsman at the same prices and coasting on the Craftsman reputation that was built up over generations. It was just one of many very stupid, very shortsighted decisions that have just about finished killing off Sears.

To be honest, if they had done a better job of keeping the exact same design and quality, far fewer people would have even noticed or objected to the COO switch.

 

[James-W]

The people in China are capable of making really high quality products. But when they do the cost goes up considerably. For the most part, companies that import products from China just want something they can buy for peanuts and then sell the item for a considerable profit.

 

[jacked_72]

Is there a little emogi of a guy stirring a pot? That's what I want to post.

 

[bwringer]

Is there a little emogi of a guy stirring a pot? That's what I want to post.

There's a "beating a dead horse" one somewhere...

 

[nh_yota]

Really? What is the cheapest manufacturer of tools in the USA? SK? Show me anywhere where Craftsman is on the same price point as something made USA

They didn't lower their prices when they started making them in China.

That was my point.

 

[rijndael]

They didn't lower their prices when they started making them in China.

IME, companies often offshore manufacturing so they can avoid RAISING prices. They come up against a wall where they're unwilling to continue to raise prices, so it's off-shored, and the price can remain stable.

 

[Tonyuk]

Tools from china can be fantastic quality, or they can be garbage.

This goes for any country, from China, to Taiwan, Germany to the USA.

If a client asked a factory in china to make a product of equal of better quality to one made in a first world country they would have no issue doing so, but it would cost more.

Toptul make great tools, and they're based in Taiwan. Milwaukee makes great stuff, pretty much all of it from China.

Snap-on's factory is probably supported by components * consumables from the east somewhere.

 

[jsmeece]

Snap-on's factory is probably supported by components * consumables from the east somewhere.

OH...MY...GOD..you cannot say that on GJ! The kool-aid drinkers will revolt.

 

[sberry]

Really? What is the cheapest manufacturer of tools in the USA? SK? Show me anywhere where Craftsman is on the same price point as something made USA

Agree. That was their problem, they kept lowering prices, so low to compete with HF and Walmart they couldn't make any money. Any cheaper and they have to pay someone to carry them to your car.

My neighbor takes a ratchet in,,, says,,, I will stop next week and pick it up as they were out of stock. Oh no,,, we will mail it. They did everything possible to keep people from having to come in to the store.
The China stuff is no worse than anything they had since the 80's, early 80's and not a collector so not sure when the quality really started to tank but before that. 85 or 2000 is not ancient history.
I will agree if you compare single prices they are not a barqain but the super sets are a gift.
If I had to start all over it would be on my short list to get going and get complete, I might shop around it after for stuff I really leaned on but for the 11/32 and the 11mm that comes in every set a guy rarely or never uses they don't eat much.
That's where that stuff really shines,,, not so much for the stuff always used but for the stuff that isn't.

 

[wyattstihl]

Ive got a chinese bit set, around 43 pieces or something, and it does the job when needed. The raised panel ratchet in it(3/8) is horrendous, but its USA counterpart I have isnt much better.

I wont buy the Chinese craftsman wrenches because I dont need any wrenches, besides the lobster claws I have seen look aweful.

Edit: I do have a 5 peice chinese Craftsman wrench set shoved away that I dug out. I was suprised.

Not size matches but the best Ive got. The chinese wrench seems like its a step up from its last run USA counterpart.

Honestly if I didnt know better I wouldve thought that Craftsman was an S-K at first glance. I dont have my S-Ks here to compare bug jeez they look alike.

Maybe thats intentional.

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[tonyciambrone]

Really? What is the cheapest manufacturer of tools in the USA? SK? Show me anywhere where Craftsman is on the same price point as something made USA

As you wish...

https://www.sears.com/craftsman-8-i...lerId=Sears&prdNo=19&blockNo=19&blockType=G19

https://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/8-flush-fastener-pliers.html

 

[anndel]

I have several 1/2-in drive Craftsman socket sets I got from Sears. Not bad for $20 for the 10 pc deep metric set and $15 for the shallows. I've even used them on an impact wrench on rusted nuts and bolts expecting them to shear but the bolts broke loose or sheared some of the bolt heads off but the sockets are fine.

 

[Y00PER]

As you wish...

https://www.sears.com/craftsman-8-i...lerId=Sears&prdNo=19&blockNo=19&blockType=G19

https://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/8-flush-fastener-pliers.html

Or even a bit cheaper....
https://www.meijer.com/product/home.../t2-10042/t3/t3-595/t4/t4-2064/2020937123.uts

 

[jgromada]

I have seen Craftsman socket wrenches, and sockets from all ages. I have some bits and pieces from 50's and 60s, my primary set was bought in 1981 (US made) and a recent set (2016 China) i picked up. I have to say some people seem to have fond memories of the older stuff but some of the newer stuff is quite nice. The new sockets are impeccable in terms of their finish and markings, and the socket wrench is very nice. It is 72 tooth while my old raised panel 1981 feels a lot rougher. The new ones have a superb ergonomically optimized design. I am not as hung up on made in US, I am looking for value.

 

[Tallpilot]

I don't own much/any, but have had a couple opportunities to use some. They're not "bad" - some of the earlier stuff, I don't like the aesthetics, and there's possible fitment issues (fat head, tight spaces), but they're solid, functional tools.

Personally, though, I don't feel like paying what they're asking, when I can get same quality cheaper, or better quality for the same price.

When Craftsman's hardline was majority US-production, it occupied a nifty space - it wasn't import pricing, but also wasn't close to typical US-production pricing.

Now that it's majority import, it's kind of a premium-priced import, and I don't feel that the value is there anymore.

If I was starting over with the market this very moment, I'd likely look elsewhere to replace my Craftsman stuff, but I wouldn't turn it down if it was free.

The 299-piece socket set is still a hell of a deal when it's on sale.

That's it! They made design choices when it was US production to keep the cost reasonable. Then moved production to China where those design choices weren't necessary but kept them so the product would 'look' the same on the shelf.

Sberry is correct; the huge sets aren't a bad place to start although I try to steer guys to Tekton if they can afford just a little more or Northern Tool if they can't (that set is made in China but has a few more useful pieces and less filler than the huge Craftsman sets). It is the best way to make sure you have every size just in case then you can buy higher end for 10mm and other sizes you use all the time.

 

[Lisamelting]

As stated many times on this forum, it's not so much the country of origin. Sure, **** tool companies spec **** tools and have them made in China. But the Chinese are more than capable of producing top quality items.

I routinely get molds made in China that are equal to anything made in the USA or Europe.

If you still doubt their capabilities check the news regarding their testing of hypersonic flight vehicles. By some estimates they are quickly closing the gap when it comes to military capability. Surely they could produce world class tools...if the market wanted it.

 

[jsmeece]

I know this has been stated on GJ before, but what I really like about Craftsman deep well sockets are they are fully broached. And as one member said, when the 299 or 308 piece ultimate socket set is on sale, it is a great value. I had points build up and I think I got the 308 piece set for less than $160 bucks. For home use, they are great, but pro use, I would buy something else like proto, sk or williams.

 

[Tom White]

Really? What is the cheapest manufacturer of tools in the USA? SK? Show me anywhere where Craftsman is on the same price point as something made USA

The only comparisons I can give are on the most basic of hand tools, as that is all I have bought recently. In those cases, Craftsman imported pliers (any type) were the same or more than the various pliers from Channellock US made ones at Menards. Craftsman imported screwdrivers are the same or more expensive than US made ones from Menards (Masterforce by Pratt-Read) and Home Depot's Husky US made ones.

Sorry I can't say about rachets and sockets as I've not needed to buy any recently.

 

[thwaller]

Sorry that it seems some think this was a 'beating a dead horse' post. I have read many other posts here, and the reason I felt my query different is that I am not looking for someone's opinion really, but real facts. One can argue USA vs China vs anywhere all day long, but in use, are they different. Will one break before the other, etc. For the most part, I see many are staying on that point, so thanks.

I saw the wrench comparison post, and as I understand it, the lobster claw design is no longer that way, at least on some (or most?) of the wrenches made today. I agree that lobster claw design, where the size is considerably larger, is not desirable for use in some cases, and looks bad too.

I bought the Craftsman's I referenced new on eBay from a tool shop in FL. As some noted prices, I do find that using Sears as the retailer is a bit expensive unless they are on a sale. If you shop elsewhere, like Amazon for example, you can get cheaper. You can shop others too, eBay, Lowes, Ace, etc. I guess I am no longer considering Craftsman <-> Sears. I looked at other brands when I purchased these items, like Husky, Stanley, Kobalt and Tekton... and for the price, the Craftsman products were not really more expensive, in fact, the Husky ones I can recall were more expensive.

 

[AreYaSerious]

Craftsman ratchets use to be mid grade to high quality now it's close to harbor freight quality but still mid grade price.

 

[RustyJunk]

The quality of Craftsman tools started going downhill long before they ever sent their production over to China, just like all the rest of Sears brands that were at one time some of the best that you could get.

 

[finn]

Craftsman use to be mid grade to high quality now it's harbor freight quality but still mid grade price.

Nobody has as poor quality, overall, as Harbor Freight.

 

[thwaller]

I wanted to add that although made in USA is nice, it is not something I would pay more for on its own. I will look at the best quality tool for the price, which is a judgement call though. Thus my query here on the quality of the tool. Many will say that Blue Point is/was better than made in USA Craftsman, and that just proves the point.. although Blue Point is Taiwan and Craftsman is not China.

So I Am really looking at the quality of these new China Craftsman products, not the fact that they are from China. So the weird shape wrenches that are/were made, I don't want those. But if I needed wrenches and see a Craftsman China set without that oversized design as I have seen in some more recent pictures of new product, sure, if the quality is there.

I am not a professional mechanic, but I have an extensive tool collection. I have 2, maybe 3, Snap On tools as I believe they are a complete waste of money. There is basically no warranty and you pay $50 for a $5 tool. Not to mention that not all their products are made in USA anyway, as stated directly on their web site under country of origin. I find Tekton to be a good quality tool, and Husky, Stanley and Kobalt to be reasonable too... so I just wonder if Craftsman China fits in the same, or if it is less than other DIY person's expected quality and price.

One thing I would love to see is a stress / torture test of a newly made Craftsman China wrench (and ratchet, socket, etc) pushed to its breaking point in comparison to the same done to a made in USA Craftsman equiv product. That would answer ... did the quality of Craftsman tools really change with the move to China, after the initial problems were fixed? Honestly, some of their made in USA stuff really sucked, so I just question if COO really made a tangible difference.

 

[6PTsocket]

I have a set of Chinese 3/8 specialty sockets (torx hex etc) that came with a ratchet, it seems as nice and solid as my American made 1/2 from an older set.

On the flipside, I have the 1/4 that seems rather flimsy, but maybe it's American counterparts is as well.

Regarding their other stuff, I have their Chinese made cordless drills and impact drivers,work perfect for 10 years,now.

IMO like most things from China, the quality continues to improve,sometimes substantially.

We'll see what they look like when they start making them here again.

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Are we talking about Sears Craftsman or SB&D Craftsman? At this point Sears may not even have a Chinese replacement for a failed tool.

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[Farmall450]

Why do I feel we have seen this exact thread before?

 

[sberry]

The new one is 1980.