Craftsman going back to USA

[GoBlue]

Uh Oh... Looks like someone is upset because they paid too much for their dual 80's and they don't say USA

Heres the differance. The Snap on dual is THE BEST still and according to Snap on is still 100% made in the U.S.A. Craftsman offshored tools are garbage and their overall quality (and market share) has been on the decline for for the last 20 years.

 

[dualsub2006]

Heres the differance. The Snap on dual is THE BEST still and according to Snap on is still 100% made in the U.S.A. Craftsman offshored tools are garbage and their overall quality (and market share) has been on the decline for for the last 20 years.

If I'm going to buy China tools, I'm going to pay China prices. They closed the Sears Hardware Store in my town, so it's actually now a shorter drive to get to Harbor Freight than Sears.

My truck box has been getting nothing but HF for the last year.

I'm still figuring out my strategy for USA tools in my home tool box. I've made some Williams and Snap On buys from craigslist, but I'm done with Craftsman.

 

[Super Sport]

And this very aspect is why cries of "IMPORT TOOLS FOR USA PRICES!!!" rings completely and utterly hollow.

Exactly. No where else can you get USA tools for Craftsman prices. They had to give somewhere, and they apparently felt that most of their customers would not pay higher prices.

Most of us on this site would...but we are a minority.

 

[nmk_61802]

Exactly. No where else can you get USA tools for Craftsman prices. They had to give somewhere, and they apparently felt that most of their customers would not pay higher prices.

Most of us on this site would...but we are a minority.

This I understand, but as I said in another thread. At one time this was the plan for the C-man Evolve line. The Evolve was to be made in China, and C-man in the States. This seemed to be a good approach, and I do not know why the strayed.

As a casual user I am not a Snap-on preacher, or opposed to HF tools (have plenty of them), but I do like a quality tool too. Using the premium ratchets as an example, I cannot see spending $50 for a 3/8" when a better quality GW or Toptul (and Toptul has expanded choices available similar to the truck brands) can be had for less, or an equal quality HF for 1/4 the price. I could give similar examples for pliers, screwdrivers and wrenches.

 

[american lockpicker]

all i get on your link is a little box with a x in it. i tried chatting but i got no answer bob w:

Try at night 7-12 est

 

[oldtools]

I have an 8 in india dbe S wrench it did not start out as an S wrench though bob w.

It's called a mouldable wrench. It's a new invention.

 

[pipsters]

This I understand, but as I said in another thread. At one time this was the plan for the C-man Evolve line. The Evolve was to be made in China, and C-man in the States. This seemed to be a good approach, and I do not know why the strayed.

As a casual user I am not a Snap-on preacher, or opposed to HF tools (have plenty of them), but I do like a quality tool too. Using the premium ratchets as an example, I cannot see spending $50 for a 3/8" when a better quality GW or Toptul (and Toptul has expanded choices available similar to the truck brands) can be had for less, or an equal quality HF for 1/4 the price. I could give similar examples for pliers, screwdrivers and wrenches.

It costs more to buy a comparable US product. Most people, including yourself, simply won't pay more.

 

[nmk_61802]

It costs more to buy a comparable US product. Most people, including yourself, simply won't pay more.

Not to argue, but this is the same mistake Sears is making. They are deciding for ME what I would or would not purchase. I will not pay Snap-on prices, but I think all agree C-man and Snap-on are not the same quality.

I do have several US and Euro made tools which I gladly paid for the increased quality.

Sear's problem is that quality/ design has suffered as a result of the shift to being made in China, and the prices have remained the same. This shifted their direct competitors in the tool manufaturing department from companies like SK, Allen, Channellock & Klien to the likes of HF, GW or Toptul (two of which IMO do it better, and the other beats Sears easily on prices). Sears no longer leads in any of my personal categories for basic tool purchase. (Price, Quality, Selection)

On the flip side being US made does not instantly buy a pass either, could care less about COO only Quality/ Price weighted against how much I am going to use the tool. It just happens that the majority US and Euro tools are of higher quality than their Asian counterparts.

 

[MN Falcon]

Exactly. No where else can you get USA tools for Craftsman prices. They had to give somewhere, and they apparently felt that most of their customers would not pay higher prices.

Most of us on this site would...but we are a minority.

$30
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00934573000P?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5

$4
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944232000P?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4

$4
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944229000P?prdNo=6&blockNo=6&blockType=G6

Craftsman Total $38

$25
http://menards.com/main/tools-hardw...ic-12-point-standard-set/p-1503281-c-9159.htm

$4.40
http://menards.com/main/tools-hardw...-drive-socket-12-pt-21mm/p-1503242-c-9159.htm

$4.40
http://menards.com/main/tools-hardw...-drive-socket-12-pt-19mm/p-1503240-c-9159.htm

Menards total = $33.80

The Menards tools are rebranded Allen tools made by Apex/Danaher. I can get similar prices for the Allen branded tools at Mills Fleet Farm. Craftsman didn't set the price, Danaher did. Craftsman was just the biggest player in tools at this price. I can always find cheaper Chinese tools, I will not pay Craftsman prices for Chinese tools. I have quit buying Craftsman tools and now have been buying more at Menards and Fleet Farm. Sears lost me.

 

[bcradio]

Heres the differance. The Snap on dual is THE BEST still and according to Snap on is still 100% made in the U.S.A.

mmmmmmmmmm.... debatable

Craftsman offshored tools are garbage and their overall quality (and market share) has been on the decline for for the last 20 years.

Anywho, I wasn't suggesting Craftsman was better than Snap-on either. If you have to keep telling yourself that Snap-on is the best just because you paid the most for it, then by all means do so.

 

[The Man]

It went from the US to Taiwan to China. I suspect the next step in Sears illogical progression is rebranding tools stolen by Somali pirates.

What's the difference in Taiwan and China, either way they produce ****. I woudnt by from either if I can help it.

 

[ajchien]

What's the difference in Taiwan and China, either way they produce ****. I woudnt by from either if I can help it.

I guess that's where you and I differ.

As far as tool quality, I believe Taiwan does a much better job than China. For me, top tier Taiwan offerings like genius and toptul can beat out low tier USA craftsman and stanley offerings. I personally still find china made tools to be a complete crapshoot in QC, like current gearwrench products.

As far as economic differences, taiwan is a first world nation, with housing prices, costs of living, and salaries equal to the USA. China still has a significant hidden segment of their population that works in the "slave labor" pay scales.

On the political scale, Taiwan is a democracy while china is a communist nation.

On the military level, if the USA wasn't floating ships and flying planes in and over the waters between taiwan and china, china would have already blown up taiwan, invaded it, and turned it into a Chinese province.

I have no problems with Taiwan. Supporting their tools is like supporting Japanese, or german made tools. Supporting China is different, for the reasons above.

If tools were of equal quality, I'd go USA. In fact, I got some grief from this board a while back because I chose a USA 3/8 flex craftsman ratchet over the imported 3/8 duralast flex head. The USA tool still got my money even though it was an inferior product. Now that crfatsman's products have offshored, they've lost their advantage.

I'll be honest, I didn't think that my buying practices would change that much - but it has happened. I haven't bought any tool from sears, since stephen9666 posted his china vs. USA RP thread a few months ago. Things like COO do make a difference.

 

[powertrip]

Heres the differance. The Snap on dual is THE BEST still and according to Snap on is still 100% made in the U.S.A. Craftsman offshored tools are garbage and their overall quality (and market share) has been on the decline for for the last 20 years.

What i do respect craftsman for is at least the tools they still make in the USA are still stamped USA. You know just by looking at it. USA stamp, made in USA. No stamp, made somewhere else. Up front and honest whether we like it or not. At least craftsman is letting us know.

 

[monster1]

Sears and Montgomery Ward's. Too big to fail.

 

[GoBlue]

mmmmmmmmmm.... debatable



Anywho, I wasn't suggesting Craftsman was better than Snap-on either. If you have to keep telling yourself that Snap-on is the best just because you paid the most for it, then by all means do so.

I tell myself Snap on is the best because i have all of the other brands as well and using them for a living gives my plenty of opportunity to test them all

 

[GoBlue]

What i do respect craftsman for is at least the tools they still make in the USA are still stamped USA. You know just by looking at it. USA stamp, made in USA. No stamp, made somewhere else. Up front and honest whether we like it or not. At least craftsman is letting us know.

Oh boy...Craftsman puts their made in china label in the smallest font hidden on the back of the label above the upc. Your jab at Snap on however is bunk as they list COO for ever tool they make on the website for the world to see. Guess what, i got some Snap on adjustable pliers recently and guess what was stamped right on the steel...made in Spain. Craftsman made their name selling American made tools. Now that they think no one is looking, they have killed the American stuff and imported chinese garbage that looks as close to the American product as possible...and guess what...the price never changed. So you respect Sears?

 

[geologist]

I have a lot of Craftsman tools. For the most part, I like them. However, I've started shifting my tastes a bit. Instead of rp ratchets, Ive got vintage tri-wing thumbwheeled ratchets. I would like some Snap-On ratchets for my special needs workshop, but they're way out of my budget at the moment. In areas where I need a very high quality tool, I've been going with used SK.

 

[powertrip]

Oh boy...Craftsman puts their made in china label in the smallest font hidden on the back of the label above the upc. Your jab at Snap on however is bunk as they list COO for ever tool they make on the website for the world to see. Guess what, i got some Snap on adjustable pliers recently and guess what was stamped right on the steel...made in Spain. Craftsman made their name selling American made tools. Now that they think no one is looking, they have killed the American stuff and imported chinese garbage that looks as close to the American product as possible...and guess what...the price never changed. So you respect Sears?

So many contradictions that my head is spinning. You state that cman stuff is cheap imports but praise the snapon imports. You really should not have to check the internet to see if your tool is USA made , it should just be marked on the tool. Just my thoughts. Oh yeah, my cman adjustable wrenches are marked USA. Sure cman made its name selling USA made tools and now imports but isnt that exactly what snapon did with there adjustable wrenches you just bought? They killed off the USA made adjustables for the spain imports.

 

[bcradio]

Oh boy...Craftsman puts their made in china label in the smallest font hidden on the back of the label above the upc. Your jab at Snap on however is bunk as they list COO for ever tool they make on the website for the world to see. Guess what, i got some Snap on adjustable pliers recently and guess what was stamped right on the steel...made in Spain. Craftsman made their name selling American made tools. Now that they think no one is looking, they have killed the American stuff and imported chinese garbage that looks as close to the American product as possible...and guess what...the price never changed. So you respect Sears?

Ladies and gentleman... Looks like we got ourselves a snap on fanboy here. Must be about time to polish some chrome

 

[WR250F]

Nice.

This has officially deteriorated into another SO vs everyone else vs my stuff is better than your stuff because of how much I paid thread.

To the OP, just call Sears head office and ask. Post what they give as an answer.

 

[geologist]

Nice.

This has officially deteriorated into another SO vs everyone else vs my stuff is better than your stuff because of how much I paid thread.

Threads are subject to a variant of Godwin's Law.

 

[wreckerman5357]

So many contradictions that my head is spinning. You state that cman stuff is cheap imports but praise the snapon imports. You really should not have to check the internet to see if your tool is USA made , it should just be marked on the tool. Just my thoughts. Oh yeah, my cman adjustable wrenches are marked USA. Sure cman made its name selling USA made tools and now imports but isnt that exactly what snapon did with there adjustable wrenches you just bought? They killed off the USA made adjustables for the spain imports.

The difference that Snap-On sells good stuff. I get on the truck every week and it is full of high quality tools made for proffesional users. Any thing imported on the truck will be manufactured to Snap-On's high standards and will be a guarenteed performer.

When I go into Sears I find a lot of junk and some stuff of reasonable quality. They are not catering to professionals, they cater to Harry the Homeowner and guys that need some tools to tackle the occaisional weekend project. These guys need tools good enough to handle 1 or 2 fairly light jobs a month.

Sears quality control does not need to be as tight as Snap-On, their market is not the same. Simply put, Snap-On imports deserve praise, because they are solid products. Snap-On does not make garbage and Sears does.

 

[trboxman]

Ladies and gentleman... Looks like we got ourselves a snap on fanboy here. Must be about time to polish some chrome

I would say that GoBlue is most definitely not a blind following snap on koolaid drinker.

 

[Super Sport]

$30
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...5&blockType=G5

$4
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...4&blockType=G4

$4
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...6&blockType=G6

Craftsman Total $38

$25
http://menards.com/main/tools-hardwa...281-c-9159.htm

$4.40
http://menards.com/main/tools-hardwa...242-c-9159.htm

$4.40
http://menards.com/main/tools-hardwa...240-c-9159.htm

Menards total = $33.80

The Menards tools are rebranded Allen tools made by Apex/Danaher. I can get similar prices for the Allen branded tools at Mills Fleet Farm. Craftsman didn't set the price, Danaher did. Craftsman was just the biggest player in tools at this price. I can always find cheaper Chinese tools, I will not pay Craftsman prices for Chinese tools. I have quit buying Craftsman tools and now have been buying more at Menards and Fleet Farm. Sears lost me.

None of your links seemed to work for me, but I can assume you posted some Masterforce tools. I don't own any myself so I don't know for certain, but do you need a receipt for warranty on those? With Allen you do, so I would assume so. With Craftsman you are paying for a name and a top-class warranty, things you don't get with Masterforce or Allen.

You also have to remember, Menards and Fleet Farm (along with HF) are small players compared to Cman. Sears only real competitors are Lowe's and HD, both who sell Chinese-made tools at "Craftsman prices." Outside of the brand you posted, you cannot buy USA-made tools at Craftsman prices. Wright, Armstrong, SK, etc. are all significantly more expensive. Craftsman has been selling us USA tools at cheaper than USA prices.

I'm a big supporter of made in USA, but I know I'm a minority. Americans don't care anymore; they would rather see lower prices. Sears is losing me as a customer, but they are probably keeping 2 others by keeping costs lower. I have little doubt this will affect their bottom line and that we will see production come back over here...

 

[slackadjuster]

What hand tools? The ones sold at all the sears and kmart stores by me are American made. Always have been. Except for the newer Evolve junk.

 

[MN Falcon]

None of your links seemed to work for me, but I can assume you posted some Masterforce tools. I don't own any myself so I don't know for certain, but do you need a receipt for warranty on those? With Allen you do, so I would assume so. With Craftsman you are paying for a name and a top-class warranty, things you don't get with Masterforce or Allen.

You also have to remember, Menards and Fleet Farm (along with HF) are small players compared to Cman. Sears only real competitors are Lowe's and HD, both who sell Chinese-made tools at "Craftsman prices." Outside of the brand you posted, you cannot buy USA-made tools at Craftsman prices. Wright, Armstrong, SK, etc. are all significantly more expensive. Craftsman has been selling us USA tools at cheaper than USA prices.

Sorry, I copied the links from a different post of mine and didn't check them, it looks like you can't just copy them though because it doesn't copy all the info --I corrected the links now. My point is that you can buy USA tools at Craftsman prices, so Craftsman wasn't doing us a favor. These are all low quality USA tools compared to the others but if the other places can match craftsman prices Craftsman is not selling for less than USA prices. Sure the warranty might be more painful, Sears did do a good job of that. I would assume that Menards will go to a no receipt exchange, that is probably one of the reasons they are paying to rebrand -- that cannot be free. But I have had troubles getting my Protos exchanged as well. The store that they were bought at has since gone out of business and places like Grainger break Stanley's policy by saying you need a receipt even though Stanley's website says that all authorized resellers will warranty them.

Again my point was not that Craftsman's are not cheap compared to other brands, but they are not cheap compared to similar USA models. You are probably correct in that I can do nothing about it, the corporate type would just look at any possible loss of sales as a confirmation that their choice was correct, with fewer sales they need to make more profit per sale to make the same amount of total profit. Of course fewer sales means that they need fewer employees so they win there also Again, I am not going to pay Craftsman or Kobalt prices for Chinese stuff, I am lucky enough to have lots of different choices, I can buy from HF, Northern Tool, Menards and Fleet Farm. I can also but Protos from a local hardware store and or Grainger. So I have tons of options for buying new

 

[GoBlue]

So many contradictions that my head is spinning. You state that cman stuff is cheap imports but praise the snapon imports. You really should not have to check the internet to see if your tool is USA made , it should just be marked on the tool. Just my thoughts. Oh yeah, my cman adjustable wrenches are marked USA. Sure cman made its name selling USA made tools and now imports but isnt that exactly what snapon did with there adjustable wrenches you just bought? They killed off the USA made adjustables for the spain imports.

No contradiction there. Craftsman imports are for the vast majority are ****, while Snap on's are of excelent quality. Im not opposed to buying imported tools when they are of good quality. I am opposed to a great American name being pimped out for the sake of profit and the replacing of once great tools with absolute trash. Not all good tools are American made and not all American made tools are good...no offense but Craftsman adjustables are a good example of that as were the last generation of rp ratchets. I really am NOT a Snap on fanboy. I like several brands of tools and unfortunitly many of my favorites are no longer made. Of the current production, Snap on does imho make the best tools accross the board but im certianly not the kind of guy that wears blinders and thinks everything else is no good.


p.s...Snap on adjustables were made in Sweeden prior to Spain...not the U.S.

 

[bcradio]

I would say that GoBlue is most definitely not a blind following snap on koolaid drinker.

Good to hear... Maybe it's Snap on tunnel vision? I agree with an above poster in that sears has some garbage and some gems... every brand seems to have a certain number tools that they make really well so I would say users put themselves at a handicap if they only use one brand.

 

[byoungblood]

What hand tools? The ones sold at all the sears and kmart stores by me are American made. Always have been. Except for the newer Evolve junk.

Most of their former Professional line (now just called full polish) and now their basic RP 1/4" and 3/8" (and likely the 1/2" drive ones, I just haven't seen one) ratchets are made in China. Thin profile ratchets are made in Taiwan now. As stock gets replinished in your local stores, you'll start to see it too, I almost didn't believe it until I wandered into a Sears while Christmas shopping and saw a few Chinese made ratchets.

I don't use any of the RP ratchets any longer, but the trend is what is depressing. A bulk of my hand tools are Craftsman, and it is just sad to think that probably in another 4-5 years everything will probably be made in China.