craftsman hand tools

[chicane]

Well, not to be argumentative, but you stated:
"Yes, I would say their (Craftsman) hand tools are of equal or better quality than the Matcos or Snap-Ons."

You have yet to cite any real examples. The whole subject of "craftman is just as good as snap on" comes up a lot here, but your the first I have seen to claim that you have found Craftsman to be "equal or better" than Snap On.

We are not talkng dollars and cents here, we are discussing overall quality, innovation, features, and durability. If you now want to bring cost into the equasion, it ruins your original argument. There is really no doubt that Craftsman IS the better value for the hobbyist, or weekend warrior. You stated that Craftsman is equal or better to Snap on. Not equal or better value, your statement implied that craftsman was an equal or better quality tool than snap on, regardless of price.

Again, not trying to be argumentative, but it just sounds like a far fetched statement (or opinion) with little physical testing to me, and you have yet to state otherwise. Lets hear some examples based on your experience. I'm happy to share my comparison experiences (as I shed some light on above) all day long.

You are correct. Let me qualify that original statement. On average I believe they are equal. I have heard SnapOn diehards say that some SnapOns are better than the Craftsman Pros and some Craftsman Pros are better than the SnapOns (which originated my original statement), especially with the re-branded stuff.

On average I would say they are of equal quality. Now I am talking about the polished Pro series tools not the raised bevel, rough skinned, old school Craftsman hand tools, which I think are just fine just not apples to apples comparable. I believe for the kind of money SnapOn is asking for their hand tools their is little justification to buy them. Especially when Craftsman has a lifetime warranty and especially when there is a Sears store on every corner (if a screwdriver breaks on a Saturday morning and I need a replacement do you really think I am going to be able to find a SnapOn truck?).

In all my years of working on cars I have never broken a wrench or a socket (I don't even know how you break a steel socket). But if I did I know my local Sears store would replace it without question or receipt.

So please tell me the advantage of SnapOn because there is zero financial advantage that I can see? Besides it's the man behind the tools not the brand name on them that matters most.

I recently did the valve job on my M3 (a $1200 job at the dealer), all with Craftsman tools. That about pays for every Craftsman hand tool in my Craftsman Pro tool chest. Oh and by the way my S54 engine retails for about $19K so I have a lot riding on those "cheap" tools of mine.

 

[MarkH]

I dunno.... I have a hard time believing that Danaher changes all of their manufacturing to set up for "Matco" specs. I'm sure taht they do it for some things, but have you ever put a Craftsman Pro and a Matco combo wrench next to each other? Notice any similarities?

It does not have to be all, sometimes it is just minor things that add to the cost for the high end. Common items are older tooling, How metal is handled, metal make up, plating. All of this adds up in the higher price blends. Most modern lines are designed to make multiple products simultaniously also.

 

[wilbilt]

Let me qualify that original statement. On average I believe they are equal.

On average I would say they are of equal quality. Now I am talking about the polished Pro series tools not the raised bevel, rough skinned, old school Craftsman hand tools, which I think are just fine just not apples to apples comparable. I believe for the kind of money SnapOn is asking for their hand tools their is little justification to buy them. Especially when Craftsman has a lifetime warranty and especially when there is a Sears store on every corner (if a screwdriver breaks on a Saturday morning and I need a replacement do you really think I am going to be able to find a SnapOn truck?).

In all my years of working on cars I have never broken a wrench or a socket (I don't even know how you break a steel socket).

Believe me, you will know when it happens.

Now you are posting anecdotal evidence that "you believe" and "you would say" they are of equal quality. To play the Devil's advocate, where is your factual proof of these statements? What are the hard scientific facts supporting your conclusions? Or is this just your opinion? (I like opinions...they make for great discussion)

BTW, there is NOT a Sears store on every corner. That's a fact.

 

[kartracer55]

...

Hahahahahhaha

Actually some of the items are identical. Alot of the specialty tools badged for craftsman get sold by matco too. Also the rebuild kits from some matco ratchets cross over to craftsman. Go ahead, try it out. Not saying they are heat treated the same, but they definetly fit into each other.

 

[mulepackin]

God, I'm going to bed.

 

[eschoendorff]

All this discussion has made me need to take a ****. Be back in a few minutes....

 

[chicane]

Believe me, you will know when it happens.

Now you are posting anecdotal evidence that "you believe" and "you would say" they are of equal quality. To play the Devil's advocate, where is your factual proof of these statements? What are the hard scientific facts supporting your conclusions? Or is this just your opinion? (I like opinions...they make for great discussion)

I am not claiming that Craftsman are superior in quality to SnapOn, you are.
If you are going to take that huge leap in logic then you have to come up with proof not me. I am saying they are as good (on average) than SnapOn.

BTW, there is NOT a Sears store on every corner. That's a fact.

It's called hyperbole sir. Fact is the Sears stores are more accessible than the tool trucks. Do your tool trucks operate on Saturday and Sundays?

 

[wythors]

I have two items to add to this discussion.

First:

Did you know that the same company makes both the Cadillac SLR Roadster and the Aveo...

This statement is completely and utterly false. The SLR is made by General Motors. The Aveo is make by Daewoo in South Korea.

Second:

I vote for the immediate ban of the next person that brings up this subject on this board.

Craftsman are great tools. Snap-On are better. All you have to do to realize this is use them both. The difference in quality is immediately apparent.

 

[daveinwestland]

I have two items to add to this discussion.

First:



This statement is completely and utterly false. The SLR is made by General Motors. The Aveo is make by Daewoo in South Korea.

Second:

I vote for the immediate ban of the next person that brings up this subject on this board.

Craftsman are great tools. Snap-On are better. All you have to do to realize this is use them both. The difference in quality is immediately apparent.

OK then substitute, Cobalt/HHR/Impala/Monte Carlo/Malibu

My point was that just because the same "big" company makes things, it does not mean that they are equal. I was not saying that an Aveo is a cadillac. Maybe my sarcasm was lost in translation.

Hot Point appliances are made in the same factory side by side with GE Profiles, but use lesser quality parts.

 

[wythors]

Your sarcasm was not "lost in the translation", in fact I agree with you. It just loses it's relevance when the information is erroneous.

 

[malibu101]

It's called hyperbole sir. Fact is the Sears stores are more accessible than the tool trucks. Do your tool trucks operate on Saturday and Sundays?

While I don't know which tool is better I did add a word to my vocabulary today


hy·per·bo·le
–noun Rhetoric. 1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Credit to dictionary.com

 

[ImportTuner]

Originally Posted by wilbilt
BTW, there is NOT a Sears store on every corner. That's a fact.



While I don't know which tool is better I did add a word to my vocabulary today


hy·per·bo·le
–noun Rhetoric. 1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

Credit to dictionary.com

So, that's what "hy·per·bo·le" means ....

 

[MarkH]

Hot Point appliances are made in the same factory side by side with GE Profiles, but use lesser quality parts.

I think this was the point of this thread. With low volume specialty tools the specs may be the same. For most others and for most common tools the volume will justify it, it is very easy to modify the materials used, way the product is cured, finish level, inspection level, marketted, warrantied and make a different spec on the same line and same plant. It may look similar, so don't be fooled.

Will go back to munching popcorn and have a hard time figuring out why Craftsman and Snap On are always compared, they are for the most part for different markets. I would prefer the Snap On - Matco - Mac discussion and a Craftsman - SK - Armstrong - etc one. It would be more useful.

 

[wilbilt]

I am not claiming that Craftsman are superior in quality to SnapOn, you are.

I have never stated that Craftsman tools are superior to Snap-On. Quite the contrary actually, many times, based on my experience.

So, just so I can get this straight, a claim of "equal" quality requires no supporting evidence, yet a claim of "superior" quality does?

As far as hyperbole, it does not matter if a Sears store is more convenient for you if they will not honor the warranty. The same is true of the tool trucks. It boils down to the fact that warranty decisions are dependent on the individual dealer or store management personnel. I have had issues with both companies, so I do not generally hold their "Lifetime Warranties" in very high regard.

 

[chicane]

I have never stated that Craftsman tools are superior to Snap-On. Quite the contrary actually, many times, based on my experience.

So, just so I can get this straight, a claim of "equal" quality requires no supporting evidence, yet a claim of "superior" quality does?

As far as hyperbole, it does not matter if a Sears store is more convenient for you if they will not honor the warranty. The same is true of the tool trucks. It boils down to the fact that warranty decisions are dependent on the individual dealer or store management personnel. I have had issues with both companies, so I do not generally hold their "Lifetime Warranties" in very high regard.

YOU ARE, as in you are claiming SnapOn are better quality than Craftsman (sans evidence). They (Sears) honors the warranty every time. Another internet rumor. I can see the SnapOn salesman's talking points are getting thru.

 

[wilbilt]

YOU ARE, as in you are claiming SnapOn are better quality than Craftsman (sans evidence). They (Sears) honors the warranty every time. Another internet rumor. I can see the SnapOn salesman's talking points are getting thru.

You stated I claimed CRAFTSMAN (as long as we are doing caps, I'll play along) is superior to SNAP-ON. I have never made any such statement, either in cyberspace or in reality.

Sears DOES NOT honor the warranty every time. Visit the Sears stores in Oroville, Chico, and Yuba City, California with your warranties, then come back and give us a report on your experiences. These locations represent Sears within a 50-mile radius of my home.

As far as the Snap-On rep goes, I haven't spoken to mine since the mid-1990s, so there goes that theory.

 

[eschoendorff]

Good lord! Is this thread STILL going????? Quit bickerin' and go build something!

 

[mulepackin]

Good lord! Is this thread STILL going????? Quit bickerin' and go build something!

Yeah, I guess so. Just thought I'd tune in for the latest installment in this ongoing series. Summer TV is just reruns too.....

 

[reversegear]

Well, y'all are entitled to your opinions, but I have to say that Craftsman SIX POINT SOCKETS are waaayy better than Snap-On TWELVE POINT SOCKETS.

/Joking. Please don't ban me.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Sad indeed!

 

[paramudduck]

The tool you can afford to buy. That will do the job is the best tool for you.

Don't put yourself head over heels in debt. Don't mortgage your soul just for a name.

As for snapping sockets, I had the side split on a MAC 10mm last week trying to take a bolt out of the plastic radiator shroud on a S-10 Blazer.

 

[wilbilt]

Yeah, I guess so. Just thought I'd tune in for the latest installment in this ongoing series. Summer TV is just reruns too.....

I only get about 3 channels, so what else am I supposed to do?

Eat more popcorn, I guess.

 

[markb1]

Wow... I read the whole thread.

These come up on audio forums about what speaker wire is better, zip cord vs.monster cable kind of thing, they never go away.

Use what you like. I think the snapons sound better myself.

 

[wilbilt]

Use what you like. I think the snapons sound better myself.

Actually, they do.

Picture if you will, a drawer full of wrenches laid out in wrench holders, smallest to largest on one side, largest to smallest on the other.

Imagine what it might be like to play them like a xylophone. Really.

I have done so many times, and the Snap-Ons have a much nicer tone than the other brands. Seriously. I had the most success with the Twilight Zone theme, as well as Deep Purple's "Perfect Strangers" and Metallica's "Enter Sandman".

You are shaking your head in disbelief, but I really did do this. The Snap-On wrenches rang true, with a good tonal range dependent on the sizes included. The "other" brands made clink, clunk and cloink noises, hardly suitable for musical reproduction.

 

[mulepackin]

Sweet Jesus, if you get it down good, you could be on that new "reality" show. We'd all vote for you. (just got the beer and nuts out and settled in to view this evenings installment - this thread, not the reality show).

 

[markb1]

I think snapon wrench wind chimes in a auto motiff would be cool.

The must have acc. for every garage. LOL

 

[Coach James]

Raise your hand if you think Task Force wrenches and sockets from Lowes kick ***!!!

 

[ImportTuner]

Raise your hand if you think Task Force wrenches and sockets from Lowes kick ***!!!

Come on ... Are you serious?????

 

[eschoendorff]

Raise your hand if you think Task Force wrenches and sockets from Lowes kick ***!!!

lick ***????

 

[tweety652]

when i started this i meant the comparing of tools made by danaher. many different brands headed by one company, yet not created equal. same thing with stanley and its different tool lines. sorry for the confusion

 

[MAD]

I dunno.... I have a hard time believing that Danaher changes all of their manufacturing to set up for "Matco" specs. I'm sure taht they do it for some things, but have you ever put a Craftsman Pro and a Matco combo wrench next to each other? Notice any similarities?

The current Danaher supplied full polished long pattern Craftsman pro combination wrenches are different looking than my older Matco polished wrenches. I do not know about the latest Matco wrenches. It has been about a dozen years since I have been in a Matco truck. They do look very similar to some polished wrenches I have that are branded K-D. The only differences being the K-Ds are a regular length rather than a long pattern.

The Craftsman pro combination wrenches were made by S-K as well at one time. The S-K supplied wrenches are longer, slimmer, and have a thinner box end. They are identical to the S-K long pattern wrenches. The long combination wrenches I have are numbered starting with 44 for the S-K made Wrenches and 45 for the Daneher supplied ones. The S-K made ones also have a small sideways letter K after the word professional.

In the Craftsman pro stubby wrenches that I have, the older S-K made ones are marked -k- before the number. The newer (Danaher ?)ones have a polished raised panel and are marked with a -W- before the number. The numbers are the same.

I also have some recently purchased Craftsman pro flare nut (line) wrenches that appear to be identical to my S-K line wrenches.

The Craftsman polished wrenches are all great wrenches for the money. On my S-K made ones I have worn the chrome to the point where the common sized ones are starting to appear brassy but I have yet to chip the chrome after 15 years. They are as good or better than my MAC and Cornwell wrenches. The Danaher made ones seem very good as well. I will report back on those in 15 years or so.

The Snap-on flank drive plus wrenches may indeed be the best you can buy and worth the money for some folks. Snap-on bit sockets (Allen, Torx, etc...) are also worth the money if you need the best. The Snap-on ratchets that I own and have owned are not the smoothest I have used and have actually been more prone to breaking teeth than my Craftsman pro ratchets. These are all pre-high strength sealed head models so I can not speak for the latest Snap-on models. I prefer my S-k ratchets over both of them when it comes to smooth action and durability.

There are a few instances where Snap-on and Craftsman offer identical tools. Both companies put their own brand on specialty tools from Lisle and Kastar for example. For these it is cheaper to buy from Sears. For the pro that needs it now however, you can’t beat the convenience of the truck if he is right there with the tool you need. (Most are willing to pay more for a hotdog at the ball park even if its not as good a deal as the bulk pack from the wholesale club.)

I hate to beat this horse anymore but here I go anyway. I just picked up a nearly new Matco 22mm combination wrench at a flea market yesterday. It is almost identical to the Danaher made Craftsman pro wrenches. It even has the same W mark after the number. The open end of the Matco wrench does have a slight flank drive-ish modification. Other than that, there is no visible difference between them accept for the name. I am not in a position to do any destructive testing to test the alloy/ heat treatment. Really it would not surprise me either way if other than the open end modification they are the same or not. I am sure it comes down to whatever makes them the most money.

One last thought: The truck brand tools are very constant, high quality and high price. Craftsman tools are not consistent in quality. Some things at Sears have gotten better like their professional line hand tools. Some things have gotten worse (electric power tools) or even gone to hell (hydraulic jacks) I say buy the best tools you can at the price level you are comfortable with and do not be a slave to any one brand or source.

 

[Coach James]

Come on ... Are you serious?????

LOL...No. Just having some fun.

Coach

 

[MarkH]

when i started this i meant the comparing of tools made by danaher. many different brands headed by one company, yet not created equal. same thing with stanley and its different tool lines. sorry for the confusion

Don't worry about it, there is the seeming need for the monthly popcorn munch topic and Craftsman vs Snap On seems to be the best red cape. Still it is good to remember what was said that there is items that are the same usually a house brand vs a tool manufacturer brand, low volume items may be the same. But when comparing there is so many things that can be easily changed, metal in blanks, finish thickness, finish material, inspection level and items inspected, all of this is easy to change, it is not just marketing. Then throw in using different molds etc. In the Snap On family, the Dahner family, the Stanley family and others not listed the members will have differences justifying the price differences not just a marketing style that makes up the price difference.

 

[kartracer55]

For what its worth, I had all my wheels off of my car today. What did I use? Craftsman 3/8 drive chrome and my Nitrocat. No problems. Craftsman socket's drive squares seem to actually handle impact guns better than alot of other brands. I use a 10mm on my cordless all the time and the socket looks brand new.

Jim

 

[Thumper]

Ohhhhh Hell...........not this **** again...........LMAO

 

[v8garage]

When you are turning wrenches 10 hours a day and 6 days a week, such a point is far from ridiculous.

If you were looking at new cars, and one car had nice, plush, comfortable seats, but another had flat boards with nails sticking out of them to sit on, which would you prefer? Would you consider your choice to be "subjective and ridiculous"? Would the fact that you only spend one hour a week behind the wheel instead of 60 make any difference?

As far as the quality of the alloys, I can tell you this, although I am certainly no metallurgist. During my 20 years spent wrenching professionally, I wore out many (about 18-20) Craftsman wrenches. The box ends would round out, the open ends would spread, and the chrome would peel. I don't enjoy being cut by peeling chrome, but I guess that's another subjective comment.

During the same period, I wore out exactly 2 Snap-On wrenches. Obviously not a scientific study, but good enough for me.

Munch, munch, munch....

I don't know about the quality of the alloys either but I would hope that the snap ons are better or there would be no justification for the cost difference. I still find it hard to believe it costs 4 times as much to manufacture a snap on wrench than a craftsman. From personal experience I can tell you since I have a mixed set of tools that snap on has made some sockets with some really crappy chrome on them. I have several that are peeling. As far as ratchets I will admit that snap on makes a much better quality ratchet than
snap on. However I did just have one rebuilt by the guy on the truck. By comparison I have some Proto and Plomb ratchets some of which 50 or 60 years old and were used by my dad for over 30 years as an aircraft mechanic and then used by me that have never needed any repairs.

 

[ImportTuner]

I don't know about the quality of the alloys either but I would hope that the snap ons are better or there would be no justification for the cost difference. I still find it hard to believe it costs 4 times as much to manufacture a snap on wrench than a craftsman. From personal experience I can tell you since I have a mixed set of tools that snap on has made some sockets with some really crappy chrome on them. I have several that are peeling. As far as ratchets I will admit that snap on makes a much better quality ratchet than
snap on. However I did just have one rebuilt by the guy on the truck. By comparison I have some Proto and Plomb ratchets some of which 50 or 60 years old and were used by my dad for over 30 years as an aircraft mechanic and then used by me that have never needed any repairs.

I'm confused ... you said "As far as ratchets I will admit that snap on makes a much better quality ratchet than snap on"

 

[wilbilt]

Noooooooooo!!!!! Make it go awaaaayyy!

 

[caspian65]

I happily used craftsman tools for 15 years before stepping up to snap-on. Nothing wrong with craftsman, they serve their purpose well. After 2 years of using snap-on tools exclusively, I have found that the SO stuff is not unbreakable either, but they sure do look better than the craftsman stuff!

 

[-lecroix-]

... but they sure do look better than the craftsman stuff!

OK, someone FINALLY admitted it ... now, please explain how those "better looks" make them a superior performer.

p.s. I am an owner of both brands and I don't buy the "mine tool is better 'cause it came off a fancy truck" crock of ****.