MN4x4
Well-known member
I agree. I would probably be in for a set of three when they go on sale. I don't NEED them, but I can convince myself that I do when they are 20-25% off. So for me, it's not *if* I'll buy a set, but when?
Craftsman Premium Grade Ratchets
- Thread starter myers212
- Start date
I agree. I would probably be in for a set of three when they go on sale. I don't NEED them, but I can convince myself that I do when they are 20-25% off. So for me, it's not *if* I'll buy a set, but when?
So, warranty is a big concern, but you're cool with buying the SK, which currently, has zero warranty?
Yes. SK is not priced like SnapOn, there's a different expectation of service there. Besides, it sure sounds like Ideal will be offering warranty service for SK tools. If that fails, the Facom ratchet guts (forget the series) sure look a whole lot like the Tuff-1 ones... and I'm pretty sure Stanley is still selling guts for those.
Because I don't need anymore ratchets at this point in time. If, however, I was ready to pay SnapOn prices... I wouldn't be heading to Sears.
I say "Craftsman quality" as someone who's seen the decline in quality of their products... including their raised panel ratchets. Many years ago the RPs were decent. Now? Not so much.
I've got a 1/4" Craftsman 43174 ratchet as my main 1/4" ratchet. It's decent, wish it had more teeth tho. The current one is a replacement for one I broke with my bare hands (there's that quality thing again). No big deal, right? What happens if I break this one? What do you think my chances are of getting something other than a raised panel (a clearly inferior ratchet) in exchange?
Because I think they're chasing the wrong market. Their thin ratchets sound like a very competitive product. They've got their higher end market covered. Their basic stuff is trash. That's what needs fixing, not the higher end market.
The pro market has a large variety of manufacturers to choose from. The DIY market has a bunch of Asian brands (some decent, some not) and a paucity of American (or non-third world) brands.
For all of you waiting until these SnapOn priced ratchets go on sale:
- How many other people do you think will wait?
- If many (most?) people wait for the sales, what corners do you think Sears will cut to meet that new, lower price point?
Look, I'd love to see Craftsman remain a viable brand... but Craftsman isn't lagging because they lack top-shelf items. They're lagging because they're in a race to the bottom, and their third world (and American in some cases) made dreck is dragging them down.
P.S. I seem to remember SnapOn marking their dual 80s with "USA" for at least a short while. Give it time and this too will be wiped clean of its USA markings.
P.P.S. I received a Craftsman catalog in the mail last week. Just how optimistic or hopeful am I supposed to be when there was not a single domestic product on either cover?
Last edited:
mspecperformance
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 264
hmmm I don't really see Craftsman caring to much about their low end stuff either. If they brand it craftsman with a lifetime warranty, the cheapies or the newbs will buy it. I love the idea of having a "Premium" grade ratchet, especially since Sears runs sales all the time and the ratchets are decently priced compared to sub tool truck brand "premium" tools.
TK LP
Well-known member
[/QUOTE] P.P.S. I received a Craftsman catalog in the mail last week. Just how optimistic or hopeful am I supposed to be when there was not a single domestic product on either cover?[/QUOTE]
Are you talking about the 2010-2011 catalog? The one with the chest full of Craftsaman sockets, Channelock pliers, Craftsman t-handle nut drivers, and Craftsman raised panel wrenches? Those items are all USA, and I'm not sure, buy I thought the torque wrenches were USA, but I'll check next time I'm in there.
Are you talking about the 2010-2011 catalog? The one with the chest full of Craftsaman sockets, Channelock pliers, Craftsman t-handle nut drivers, and Craftsman raised panel wrenches? Those items are all USA, and I'm not sure, buy I thought the torque wrenches were USA, but I'll check next time I'm in there.
Nah. Off the top of my head there were spline sockets and some similarly finished wrenches on the front cover. If those are not made in a third world country, that's news to me. If it hasn't been trashed yet, I'll go rattle off the featured items tonight.
Maybe, Craftsman should do some sort of promotion to get these out in the market place; how about a trade in discount on any ratchet out there.... are you listening phi2039? Get these initial models out in the field; get everyone addicted to these and then you will have addicted (hopefully guaranteed) customers for all the other various types, that you will hopefully roll out in the future! They definitely need a floor demo at the very least and should be carried in every store if you want them to sell; it almost ALWAYS killed a sale if I had to order something. I cannot stress enough; if you want to sell something it needs to be in stock and available for the customer to "touch,feel"... to close the deal; especially, a high end ratchet in the top tier price range of the Craftsman line. If your going for the pro market; offer what they pro's require.... variety! I'm sure we all would like: swivel head, long, extra long (e.g. 24" 1/2" drive) bent handle (for spark plugs), stubby, stubby flex, soft handle, roto head etc. Just some ideas for you guys @ Danaher to think about!
Agreed 100%
I think we just covered this, its clearly not Snap-On pricing. They'd need to tack on around $100 over the cost of the 3 ratchets to make that true.
Besides the finish of the interior of the sockets and the raised panels what else exactly has declined so sharply? Lets also not forget that the raised panels are often cheaper than even asian imports, regardless of who's quality is superior. You dont pay less than $20 for a domestic made ratchet and expect gold. Does the decline of the quality in the ratchets ****? Yes. Would i pay an extra $5 to have them go back to the way they were? Yes. But this appears to be either the market that sears is targeting [cheap people] and/or the doing of Apex tools. Heck look at how Danaher had eveloped and underminded Easco, a once premium ratchet manufacturer. You cant blame only Sears.
I believe companies under Danaher tool groups do understand the psychological impact of having USA on their tools [Armstrong for example] and i do believe the people in charge of Craftsman do as well otherwise we would of seen that done a long time ago. Infact i cant think of one craftsman hard line tool made in the US that doesnt have USA stamped or etched into it somewhere.
Last edited:
Bottom line is these appear to be goddamn nice freakin ratchets. What's with all the negative energy here? You get what you pay for and they are priced accordingly. Saying that people won't pay SO prices for a CM ratchet is nonsensical since people are willing to pay Mercedes prices for spruced up jap **** Toyotas (aka Lexus).
billymade
Well-known member
The "Craftsman quality" issue that I saw; was the internals of the standard ratchet mechanism.... that is in probably 75% of the ratchets they sell. This head design (guts) is in most of them; when they went to the plastic lever, thats when I saw the decline of the quality of the internals.... that may have been when they started to try to do a cost saving measure on them. This seemed to be around the time frame that Kmart bought Sears; I clearly remember a sharp decline in tools quality around that time.... I thought at the time that the bean counters @ Kmart, the "blue light special" mentality had taken over. When I left Sears last year; the quality decline was there but a sharp spike in quality control problems right out of the box off the truck, was clearly evident. The lower end tools need to improved, imho... BUT I think they don't care, a warranty return gets you back in the store to buy more tools. I think this is a short sighted view; in the long run is going to cause them to lose more customers then generate long term sales or "customers for life" that the Sears corporate training always pressured us to create, through customer service. I hope things improve but after 7 years there... all I saw was a downward trend not upward; these ratchets give me some hope but I wish they would improve things across the whole line of tools, not just the high end.
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
I think the biggest problem with the raised panel is the case. Under a lot of pressure it twist and causes the ratchet to reverce. The Pro line has a better case and the same internals as does the Kobalt and they hold over 2X more before the same thing happens. The raiesed panel heads got much thinner over the last 10 years. I think if the gears didn't slip the heads would crack wide open.
phi2039
Well-known member
The patent number is on the 'front' instead the 'back'.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Since these are your babies, could you tell me the overall length of each drive size? thanks for your time,
comedyman809
Well-known member
ill bet you can get a deal on these on black friday! wait til then!!
I just meant lower down on the handle, so there is something to grip on to. I see that the handle has a bulb at the end, but for me it just doesn't feel the same.
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
Somebody must be buying them, I went to order all three and none are available. The 3/8 was available several days ago. I can't wait to get mine. I'll sleep with mine for a week,lol
I have actually done that. I had 5 ratchets beside my bed, with sockets on them.
I would turn them in the dark to see if I could identify the ratcheting mechanism.
After I get this new craftsman, I'm going to see if I can distinguish between 80, 84, and 88 teeth, without looking at it.
Last edited:
phi2039
Well-known member
<TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; WIDTH: 71.6pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in" vAlign=top width=95>
OAL
Inch
Width
Inch
Height
Inch
Weight
Lbs
1/4" drive
6.25
1.015
0.760
0.3713
3/8” drive
9.00
1.250
1.010
0.8865
1/2" drive
11.50
1.720
1.375
1.7526
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Thanks for taking the time to post the tabulated data table.
Outstanding, 9 inches for the 3/8. I wish you would make a flex head in that length, thanks again
expatriated
Well-known member
As much as I despise Sears, I'll buy some of these to check them out. At least it seems like someone there is trying to move in the right direction. I really want them to become something again.
We need a place where the average guy can walk in and expect good old made in the US tools that are of high quality. I hope this is a good omen. At least it is clearly marked USA on it. Could it be that someone out there actually gives a ****? I certainly hope so.
We need a place where the average guy can walk in and expect good old made in the US tools that are of high quality. I hope this is a good omen. At least it is clearly marked USA on it. Could it be that someone out there actually gives a ****? I certainly hope so.
I'm sort of thinking that if people DON'T run out and buy these, for whatever reason they can come up with, then the message to Sears will be clear: don't bother making 100% USA tools, we wont buy them. Now, about that "Evolv" line....
Really though. So many people clamor for USA made stuff, and here we have a new and apparently 100% USA made and stamped ratchet staring us in the face. If they don't sell like hotcakes, then it's the sound of the death-knell.
I haven't bought anything new from Sears in the way of tools in a long time. I will buy these, one at a time, as funds permit.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
There's no question that I'm buying these but, Sears still confuses the hell out of me. I don't think these premium ratchets are way off price wise. What does confuse me is the other US made ratchet Sears recently released, the raised panel 1/4 flex head and why it costs $7.00 more than a 17 inch long 1/2 drive flex head ratchet.
I know the introduction of 4 new US made ratchets in a month is small potatoes compared to the onslaught of Asian made tools Sears is pushing these days but, at least it's something.
I know the introduction of 4 new US made ratchets in a month is small potatoes compared to the onslaught of Asian made tools Sears is pushing these days but, at least it's something.
Thank you for the clarification
Do you mean people in general, or GJ members?
dankicksass
Well-known member
I'm just a little worried that these won't be around long enough for people to still get a rebuild kit in ten years. That and my troubles with Sears warranty service on RHFT (just not getting satisfaction, I won't take a raised panel) have left a poor taste for the local Sears stores. Maybe I'm still just a little ticked the 1/2dr RHFT failed on me last week too. I still want to give these a shot at landing in my toolbox. The Snap-On guy doesn't like to come and see me, the Cornwell guy lost his route or something, the Matco guy doesn't keep anything on his truck and the Mac guy rebranded his truck "American Tool" and carries KD-Gearwrench at a huge markup and not much else. I guess I could have summed that up with "tool trucks around here ****." Even at the high level of suckage that Sears has around here, their tool inventory is reliable (even if it's shrinking) and for most things their warranty is pretty easy. The staff ruins the experience there...
blue dog
Banned
I keep hearing people make remarks regarding the staff that work at sears in the tool department. I am between 2 sears, i usually got to the one Carson, it seems to have a better selection then the Santa Monica sears, anyway, the guy at the carson store has been there forever, he is all ways helpful, has knowledge of all of the tools, is nice and he remembers my name. I have taken back 1 ratchet that was 10 years old that failed, a couple of sockets that cracked due to using them on a impact and 1 screwdriver that chipped, he does not even bat an eye before handing me a duplicate. It is his service that keeps me going back to that store. AS far as the new ratchet goes, i don't know if i can wait for it to hit the stores, i just might have to order the full set.
In my mind i really want sears to turn there line around and deliver a quality domestic product at competitive prices. If they did, i may have more craftsman tools in my box besides there sockets , wrenches, a few ratchets and a few old stinky handle screwdrivers.
In my mind i really want sears to turn there line around and deliver a quality domestic product at competitive prices. If they did, i may have more craftsman tools in my box besides there sockets , wrenches, a few ratchets and a few old stinky handle screwdrivers.
TDITS
Active member
I'm guessing these will be available at other places that sell Craftsman???
My local Ace Hardware is selling Craftsman now, I'd rather buy from them than Sears. And I do plan on picking up the 3/8 one.
My local Ace Hardware is selling Craftsman now, I'd rather buy from them than Sears. And I do plan on picking up the 3/8 one.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
My new ratchets were delivered today. The Boneheads at Sears shipped both ratchets in a bubble envelope without anything separating the ratchets in transit though. First impressions are that I like the ratchets. They're nicely finished, well balanced, and have some heft to them without being heavy. The handle shape is like an older Matco rotated 90 degrees. It has an I beam like swell at the base to keep your hand from slipping. The ratchet action is smooth and crisp. The 3/8 measures 8 7/8 inches long overall and the 1/4 is 6 1/8 inches long. Off to work they go tomorrow to see how they perform. The pictures are of the premium ratchet on the left with a Craftsman thin profile on the right for comparison.
The pictures are of the premium ratchet on the left with a Craftsman thin profile on the right for comparison.Attachments
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Just a bar code sticker on each handle, nothing else aside from a receipt.
Oh. Right. I just thought of two things.
One: Sears can't even market a quality breaker bar. I mean, really, how can you **** that one up? There's so much slop in my lightly used one that I can basically only use it for self-defence. My beat to snot SK one was much tighter, but it grew wings in a junkyard.
Two: My concern is not whether or not Sears will label these new ratchets as made in the USA. My concern is that to meet a price point that they'll sell at (I mean, come on, look at all the vultures waiting for the sales...), Sears will either lower the quality like they did with the RP ratchets (with similar results) or they'll move production to China.
If this brings back profitability to Sears, hey more power to them. But with the ex-Walmart guy in charge of Sears branding, I can't say I'm too hopeful. Then, see point one again. If they can't get the basics right (simpler tools and lower end tools), what the heck do I care about all of the goodies? Give me something at an SK price point even, and that's a step in the right direction... and then get rid of that infernal laser etching on the sockets.
Edit: come to think of it my Cman locking extensions have never really locked well either. I'm responding to a "what cheap tools should I buy to start working on my car" thread on another forum... and realizing how many little things drive me nuts about much of the Cman stuff I have.
One: Sears can't even market a quality breaker bar. I mean, really, how can you **** that one up? There's so much slop in my lightly used one that I can basically only use it for self-defence. My beat to snot SK one was much tighter, but it grew wings in a junkyard.
Two: My concern is not whether or not Sears will label these new ratchets as made in the USA. My concern is that to meet a price point that they'll sell at (I mean, come on, look at all the vultures waiting for the sales...), Sears will either lower the quality like they did with the RP ratchets (with similar results) or they'll move production to China.
If this brings back profitability to Sears, hey more power to them. But with the ex-Walmart guy in charge of Sears branding, I can't say I'm too hopeful. Then, see point one again. If they can't get the basics right (simpler tools and lower end tools), what the heck do I care about all of the goodies? Give me something at an SK price point even, and that's a step in the right direction... and then get rid of that infernal laser etching on the sockets.
Edit: come to think of it my Cman locking extensions have never really locked well either. I'm responding to a "what cheap tools should I buy to start working on my car" thread on another forum... and realizing how many little things drive me nuts about much of the Cman stuff I have.
Last edited:
crankshaftdan II
Well-known member
Just happened to visit the tool department tonight at sears-they had two (2) 1/2" drives laying in the tool cart for putting out on display. They were heavy with oil on the heads and seemed very smooth turning by hand. Clerk said black friday they should be out on special pricing??? The cardboard attached to the ratchet was all soaked in heavy oil-like grease-pretty sloppy for a brand new tool!!
mrholeshot
MEMBER EMERITUS
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2010
- Messages
- 8,043
My 3 should be here by Nov 5th. 212.68 for the trio. They better be nice
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I'm not sure if any hand operated ratchets are worth that much. However, I've been testing mine out for the last couple of weeks. No issues. I like the handle shape and the extra length. They are heavier than other ratchets except for maybe the new Proto 45 tooth pear head ratchets. I use mostly 1/4 and 3/8 at work so, I can't speak for the 1/2 drive model. I had the 1/4 covered in ATF yesterday, and the handle wasn't that slippery. As with all other tools, there will be lovers and haters of these ratchets here. There will probably be one or two ratchets that will leave the factory with issues too I'm sure. However, I like mine and would really like to see a flex head version.
billymade
Well-known member
mrholeshot, the return policy is 90 days; so, you can do a ratchet review, used them and then if you don't like them, return them!
Theloniousmonk
Well-known member
thanks for the update, sears didn't notify me when they came back into stock...
Givl Reggin
Banned
Has anyone seen these in the stores yet?