Craftsman : series time frame ?

[old salvage]

Old Salvage,

What's your estimate of the date range on the ratchet? Have you seen the U-circle series code before? Do you know what the finish/plating is on this ratchet? Does the finish/plating lead you one way or the other between Penens or Proto?

Lauver.
I dont think I've ever seen a U series mark before.
Just guestimating based on the fact that Penens and Plomb made ratchets that look Identical. I think its probably early to mid 40's.
The difference I can see is in the shifter. The Craftsman Ratchet above has a stamped sheet metal shift lever identical to war era Plomb ratchets. Ratchets made in the late 40's/50's have a cast or machined lever thats a bit more substantial.
Dont know about the finish.

 

[Chris Adams]

So the consensus it is just a user tool?

Remember, this isn't my ratchet, it belongs to my sister.

She uses tools harshly and will take it in to swap for a new ratchet then.

Shame as it is in nice shape, looks very good, but if has no collector interest it goes back to Sears.

Well, thanks for the input and the research.

 

[wrenchr]

Thats the first thing i thought.
I bet Penens or Proto was the mfg for Sears.

And proto was the manufactor of fleet.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I have won this and will advise the code when it arrives.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200210192525&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=010

I am by no means the expert that many others posting in this thread are with regards to styles and ages of vintage Crafty ratchets but I think that the ratchet shown on the ebay link is a 1947 Crafty, or very close to it at least. Just my less informed opinion!

 

[T56 Impala]

T56 Impala,

Let's start with a few general questions:

About how many Craftsman tools do you have (approximate, don't count)?

About when did you start buying C-man tools?

When was your most recent C-man purchase?

Were your tool purchases fairly even between your first and last purchase?

I own, including sockets, wrenches, drivers..... about 1000 give or take?

I started buying the myself in the late 80's. Some, but not many, were handed down to me by my father. He started in the mid 50's maybe?

My most recent was two set of the 80th anny ratchets. Before that by a few weeks were some sockets. (Blue!) Before that, maybe 2001 or so. (Ratcheting wrenches) A lot were picked up in the mid 80's then the next big accumulation was around 1995 +- 3 years. It seems I have always had some craftsman tools though. Weather they were mine or my fathers I can't be sure. I guess they are mine now.

You must forgive my inability to pin down times. I have had, well frankly, several concussions and I really don't remember much before I was 16 or 17. (1980/81) Some stuff later than that is kinda blurry too. Maybe its just my age!

 

[lauver]

Chris,

I appreciate that this is not your ratchet and it belongs to your sister. And I'm not saying that it is of no value either; I'm just saying it may not be of high value. There are folks (including here at GJ) who would probably love to have this tool. Here's a couple of suggestions:

Swap ratchets with your sister; trade a good working, newer ratchet of yours for hers and keep it for yourself. Or, once you've swapped, offer it to collecters who can appreciate this vintage ratchet. Just don't let it go back to Sears.

In any event, I appreciate your post; you've found a previously unkown series code and stirred up some good discussion on this thread.

 

[lauver]

hholmberg,

I'm not an expert on dating these tools either; I rely heavily on folks like old salvage, lbgradwell, BuickFarmer, & Charles (In GA), to help me sort the dates and manufactures out. I do have a feel for Craftsman tool design and an eye for relative age though, and my sense is that the ratchet presented by Chris Adams is older than the ratchet presented (photo on ebay link) by wrenchr. So you get no arguement from me about wrenchr's newly acquired ratchet dating to 1947 vs his estimate of mid 1950's to early 1960's. I just feel strongly that Chris's specimen is older than wrenchr's specimen.

Thanks for your post and input on production dates. And feel free to weigh in on this thread anytime. The more eyes, brains, and tool boxes, the better the results.

 

[lauver]

T56 Impala,

Don't feel bad about loss of memory, we all suffer from this. And from what you've said, you're a good 10 years younger than me. You have a sizable collection of Craftsman tools representing purchases between 1980 and the present. And you have some vintage stuff handed down from your dad. I think you can be a good resource for this thread. Since you don't really have any way of pinning down your dads purchases, let's focus on your tool purchases between 1980 and now. If your willing, here's how I suggest you proceed:

Break this task into small manageable bites.

Skip any tools with no series codes...it's pretty much a waste of time.
Skip power tools, diagnostic tools, woodworking tools, and general shop equipment. Focus your efforts on automotive hand tools.
Skip photo's unless you think it's necessary for clarification.


Start with you screwdriver sets, make a list of series codes and your best guess of purchase dates, then post your results.

Next, proceed to your sockets, drive tools, and accessories. Make a list, and post (if you have sets with mixed series codes, pick the most prominant series code).

Next, proceed to your wrench sets. Make a list, and post.

Next, proceed to your plier sets, make a list, and post.

Finally, proceed to whatever is left (hammers, punches, chisels, specialty tools, etc. Make a list, and post.

 

[philw]

Hang on to that ratchet!!! I have to disagree with lauver about the value. It could be a very collectable tool and worth quite a bit of money to the right person. The year it was made doesn't give it value, it's how rare the item is that gives it value. I agree with previous poster about the time frame being in the 40's and probably made by Penens/Proto/Plomb/Fleet. Around 1950 when Plomb changed their name their ratchets seemed to change to the more modern style Proto ratchets. The shift lever is the biggest clue, I don't recall seeing that style on a 50's ratchet.
I have never seen a Craftsman ratchet produced by Plomb/Proto etc. and I must have seen hundreds and hundreds at flea markets and antique stores.
Ebay is a crazy place and it's possible to have a couple of Craftsman tool nuts bidding high $$ for that ratchet.

 

[wrenchr]

Hang on to that ratchet!!! I have to disagree with lauver about the value. It could be a very collectable tool and worth quite a bit of money to the right person. The year it was made doesn't give it value, it's how rare the item is that gives it value. I agree with previous poster about the time frame being in the 40's and probably made by Penens/Proto/Plomb/Fleet. Around 1950 when Plomb changed their name their ratchets seemed to change to the more modern style Proto ratchets. The shift lever is the biggest clue, I don't recall seeing that style on a 50's ratchet.
I have never seen a Craftsman ratchet produced by Plomb/Proto etc. and I must have seen hundreds and hundreds at flea markets and antique stores.
Ebay is a crazy place and it's possible to have a couple of Craftsman tool nuts bidding high $$ for that ratchet.

Yes I agree!! I have never seen one before.

 

[lauver]

old salvage,

A couple more afterthoughts on the U-circle ratchet:

You previously mentioned plomb, early 40's, and wartime. If this is the case, that would make U-circle an Early series. The Craftsman logo and raised panel design, however, suggest a modern series, or at least a transitional series between the early and modern periods.

Regarding the unique plating/finish, could this be a wartime finish? You know, no copper, brass, chrome, cad, or nickle available; I'm curious what it might be though, tin perhaps? I looked around Alloy Artifacts at other wartime tools; they all had dull, inconspicuous finishes, but nothing that looked quite like the U-circle ratchet finish.

I'm conflicted, can you help sort this out.

 

[old salvage]

Lauver
The raised panel is pretty old. Some Craftsman wrenches are raised panel with the underline logo so it could still be a war era tool. Maybe the first with that style logo.
Seeing some early to mid 40's catalogs would help.
As for the finish its impossible to tell without seeing it in person. You know how cameras/camera settings are.
Dont be so tempted to form an opinion. Just be patient and keep observing tools, looking at old catalogs etc.

 

[philw]

The early 50's/late 40's pear head/ oil hole head ratchet seemed to have been the main ratchet for Sears for quite a while. My early 50's catalog only shows that style ratchet. Again, with that style shift lever I can't imagine it being anything but 40's era. The finish could be war time, it's hard to tell by the picture.
Does anyone remember hearing about someone selling Craftsman catalogs on disc? They were going by decade and selling them for $20 a disc. I did a google search and checked ebay and didn't find anything. Anyone have a lead?

 

[lauver]

philw,

See post #4, this thread for reference to discs/catalogs.

Also, you might try a PM to Jbullfrog. He may know how to reach the guy at the craftsman club site who's making the CD's/catalogs by decade.

 

[Chris Adams]

Just a follow up post after reading some of the comments on the Circle U ratchet.

The color is very much like in the pictures. The ratchet 'looks' aluminum in person. It is not of course.

I've seen old CM tools that color before, but don't know how old they were as last one I saw was about 1980 and it was old.



As a historical perspective follow up;
The original owner of this tool was a SERIOUS car collector. He had 100-125 old cars ranging from turn of the century to late 60's. His house had nothing newer than 1955 in it. Very cool place with tiny round TV, big radio, 30's style stove, etc.
He had tons, literally, of tools, many for uses that are a puzzle to me.

He wasn't that old, born around 1950 I think, but was a real nostalgia buff and made a decent living renting cars to the movie industry. The cars you see on the street in period movies made in 80's-90's were often supplied by him.

He passed away a few years ago.
My sister was a close friend and he left her a few truckloads of his stuff.
Guns (and they are some really cool ones) tools, etc.
She uses the tools as needed, and sometimes I will see an odd one and pull it out to see if it’s more value to others than as a daily user.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Old Crafty addicts, try these catalogs out, perhaps they will help you with your timeline! Rotsa Ruck!

(Most are power tool catalogs, but there are a couple of hand tool catalogs in there too, it's all great fun though!)

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id116.html

 

[lauver]

hholmberg,

Thanks for the link to the old craftsman catalogs. I spent the morning going through the 1949, 1954, 1960, and 1964 hand tool catalogs; looking for any ratchet like the U-circle. No evidence in these catalogs. By 1949 the ratchets look like the V series ratchets of today (with minor design differences that fade out entirely by 1964).

So based on this quick search, that puts the U-circle ratchet pre-1949. Can anybody lay hands on tool catalogs in the 1940-1948 range?

Noteworthy but OT: See wall-mounted tool cabinet on page 5 of the 1954 tool catalog. I'd love to have one of those. I'll bet some of you will dig em too!

 

[eschoendorff]

We really need to have John Garner from Mark KW's stop on by over here and give his input... I'm sure here could shed some light on this thread....

 

[Chris Adams]

Took that U code ratchet apart and cleaned it.
Just wanted to post a couple inside pictures. That may shed some light on when it was made in that someone may recognize the design.

It is a cool layout though. The ratchet has a very light touch to it. No check balls, very low tech but sturdy design

 

[eschoendorff]

Took that U code ratchet apart and cleaned it.
Just wanted to post a couple inside pictures. That may shed some light on when it was made in that someone may recognize the design.

It is a cool layout though. The ratchet has a very light touch to it. No check balls, very low tech but sturdy design

Wow... that looks just like the older (but still in production) Proto pear head design. Very coarse, but apparently very strong too.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Wow... that looks just like the older (but still in production) Proto pear head design. Very coarse, but apparently very strong too.

The guts of that ratchet scream Proto/Plomb to me. Every old Proto/Plomb I ever cracked open looked identical to that!

 

[old salvage]

Yep, i agree with Holmberg n eschoendorrf. Its gotta be Plomb.
I dont know whats wrong with your particular specimen but on the ones I've seen... as the little shift knub wears it rounds off and doesnt move the pawls far enough to completely dis-engage the gear teeth and doesnt sit flat against the pawls. This makes the knub/shift lever move out of adjustment as the pawl clicks. On the ones they made later on the knub is a piece of thick sheet metal bent into two tabs. As the thing wears you can bend the tabs out to compensate for wear and the contact between the pawls and shift knub is nice n flat so it doesnt move even when worn.

 

[lauver]

Chris,

Those last pictures are great. Lighting was perfect. And a whole new way of looking at that ratchet.

 

[lbgradwell]

Paramudduck,

I'm with lbgradwell, I've never seen a Taiwanese E. I have to say, though, I don't own any E's. I do have a number of the Easco USA-made EE's.

Do you have any E's? If so, what is the country(s) of origin and about when did you purchase them?

Oops! I owe paramudduck an apology...

In the early 90s, my brother came over to have me help him fix some problem with his car. We used my E & EE USA-purchased & manufactured tools in the process. My 1/4" ratchet and the socket that was attached to it disappeared somehow.

I never did replace the ratchet, but I went to a Canadian Sears a year or two later to grab a replacement for the 5/16", 6pt socket that was missing. The model number is EE-42684, and it is indeed not USA-made; Taiwan is most likely the origin...

 

[lauver]

lbgradwell,

Regarding your EE sockets, do they say made in Taiwan or just not say made in USA?

I've got a ratchet that has no series code and no country of origin on it. The concensus on my ratchet was that it was made by Stanley, and I assumed that meant made in USA. But that may not be the case depending on how Sears handles the country of origin issue. Are they at least consistant?

 

[MAD]

Old Crafty addicts, try these catalogs out, perhaps they will help you with your timeline! Rotsa Ruck!

(Most are power tool catalogs, but there are a couple of hand tool catalogs in there too, it's all great fun though!)

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id116.html

Thanks for posting that link again. I was able to place those "Super-Tuff" G-circle and F-circle screwdrivers in the 1950s by browsing those catalogs. The slightly different handle fluting and "Super-Tuff" marking match the 1954 catalog. The 1949 Craftsman screwdrivers had amber colored handles. The 1960 catalog shows the more familiar handle style with no mention of "Super-Tuff"

I did not see any 1/2" flat blade screwdrivers that match my F-circle (Millers Falls ?) screwdriver in any of the catalogs . These seem to be pretty rare. I may have to keep that one on a red velvet pillow when I am not opening paint cans with it.

 

[lbgradwell]

lbgradwell,

Regarding your EE sockets, do they say made in Taiwan or just not say made in USA?

I've got a ratchet that has no series code and no country of origin on it. The concensus on my ratchet was that it was made by Stanley, and I assumed that meant made in USA. But that may not be the case depending on how Sears handles the country of origin issue. Are they at least consistant?

There is no stated country-of-origin, but Canadian Craftsman mechanics tools have been manufactured in Taiwan (and/or more recently China) since at least the early 90s (and I believe before then).

Your Craftsman ratchet was very likely one of the Taiwan-made Stanleys from the same period with the speeder wheel. The models were 9_43795, 9_43796, and 9_43797 for the 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" models respectively.

 

[Chris Adams]

Chris,

Those last pictures are great. Lighting was perfect. And a whole new way of looking at that ratchet.

I didn't take it.
My wife did.
She's good.
Her idea of how to compose, her shot, her camera. That's silver wrapping paper on one of her photo benches.

She says "Thank you" by the way.

 

[paramudduck]

Sorry it took so long to get back. Had to wait for the water to go down around the Jeep.


1/2 inch drive ratchet Round head with the chrome "speed dial" and Y shaped Switch.
Top says CRAFTSMAN bottom Small9 with line under it then 43797 TAIWAN.

9/16 Combo wrench CRAFTSMAN Top. Bottom 9/16 E-44696 Taiwan 9/16 Taiwan is in slightly smaller print.

All sockets are made the same so I just listed the description once then the Numbers after the other sizes.
3/8 drive socket:

3/4 CRAFTSMAN over 44337 line EE line over Taiwan
11/16 44336

Spark plug sockets 3/8 drive

13/16 43325
5/8 43324

3/8 drive 8 point socket

1/4 44341

1/2 drive Sockets

7/8 47512
5/8 47505
1/2 47502
9/16 47503
11/16 47507

All the sockets are 12 point except for the 1/4 8 point.

These are all I could find of the sets. Mom reminded me I got two of them that year.
We both think it was early 80's.

As a side note while I was digging through the Jeeps tool box for these I noticed I have a few G and V model sockets that have no indication of ever having a country of origin on them.

Also the 5/8's 1/2 drive socket that I use the most happens to be the Taiwanese one. Never knew it until I was looking for the Taiwan stuff.

Wish I had a good camera for these.

 

[Dave The Tool Man]

Re: Craftsman : series time frame ? (This is my first post on here)

This ratchet was manufactured from 1944 through 1948. It was made in the standard three sizes 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2. Most were not plated due to rationing of metals like chromium, although I do have an example of a 1/2 fully plated one.

Allow me to introduce myself.
My name is David aka Dave aka Dave The Tool Man. I have at least one example of every model Craftsman ratchet ever made from the first one in 1932 through at least 2002 or so in a display case. I do plan on getting the rest of the most recent ones. I do not have one of every manufacturer's stamp.

I have at my disposal every Craftsman catalog spanning from 1927 - present. I also have every page of every Sears Big Book catalog that shows a Craftsman tool or Craftsman product from the first one in the Sears Spring/Summer catalog of 1928 and covering each spring/summer, fall/winter catalog through their last Big Book catalog of 1993.

I am currently working on a project that I hope to market through Sears which is a complete history of Craftsman Tools on CD.

Each CD contains Craftsman animated graphics put to music, along with every Craftsman catalog, plus every Craftsman product from each Sears big book for Spring/Summer, Fall/Winter of every year from that decade. I have also included nostalgia, inventions, and just plain fun stuff from the original Sears catalogs for each decade. All the catalog covers are digitally corrected to bring out the original excitement and artwork of the tools. In addition, the 1920's CD contains tool pages from Sears catalogs from 1905, 1910, and a complete 151 page Sears Blacksmith and metal lathe catalog from 1912. (before Craftsman tools). Oh, and let's not forget, I have also included a few photos of tools for each year and photos of every Craftsman ratchet ever made along with the years of production. I am also including a few original diagrams of ratchets with their detailed patents. So as you can see, a tremendous amout of work/love goes into each one of these CDs. (not to mention $ )

At present I have the 1920's, 1930's, and 1940's CDs finished and manufactued. I am currently working on the 1950's CD. If you would like information on purchasing advance copies of the CDs, please email me at [email protected]. Additionally, if anyone wants anything looked up in the catalogs, feel free to email me. I can't do hours of research for everyone, but I can do some quick look ups.

Dave

 

[lbgradwell]

Hi Dave!

I was wondering if you'd ever show up here!

Your input here will be invaluable as you likely have the best resource library on the subject ever assembled. I doubt even Sears can lay their hands on that collection!

 

[T56 Impala]

Well, I was looking through my box today as I was putting a few things away. I have both "VV and V/upside down V raised panel wrenches. I noticed a few things about these that I never even thought of before. The VV are much "cheaper" than the others. They are lighter, not as well finished, the casting is rougher and the balance is not good. The box end is also deaper and not cut as neatly. They are also a different colour. The VV's seem to have an almost aluminum look to them. The older V upsidedown V wrenches are a far superior quality.

I just thought I'd toss this in. Not sure if it means anything.

 

[jim m]

hholmberg,

Thanks for the link to the old craftsman catalogs. I spent the morning going through the 1949, 1954, 1960, and 1964 hand tool catalogs; looking for any ratchet like the U-circle. No evidence in these catalogs. By 1949 the ratchets look like the V series ratchets of today (with minor design differences that fade out entirely by 1964).

So based on this quick search, that puts the U-circle ratchet pre-1949. Can anybody lay hands on tool catalogs in the 1940-1948 range?

Noteworthy: See wall-mounted tool cabinet on page 5 of the 1954 tool catalog. I'd love to have one of those. I'll bet some of you will dig em too!

can you post a pic of the wall-mounted cabinet I have one with the old oval logo ive been trying to find info on as well as date

thanks

jim

 

[MAD]

can you post a pic of the wall-mounted cabinet I have one with the old oval logo ive been trying to find info on as well as date

thanks

jim

Jim- try this link and go to page 5.

link:
http://roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/craftsman1954.pdf

pic:

 

[jim m]

Jim- try this link and go to page 5.

link:
http://roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/craftsman1954.pdf

pic:

thanks mad Im running old school dial up just comes up contain info that cant be used yes time to upgrade

Yep thats the cabinet I picked up a few months ago been trying to date it. Its prety cool has stencils for what tools go in each area still find it odd there is no place for combo wrenchs
was it sold with tools ?
thank you agian mad

Jim

 

[lauver]

Jim m,

There are spaces for open end wrenches, tappet wrenches, and box end wrenches. Perhaps there was not enough room for combination wrenches, or maybe combination wrenches were not that common in 1954. These were simpler times. Think about it, if you had that many tools (90) hanging in your garage in 1954, you were probably the only guy in town (professional mechanics excluded) with that kind of an arsenal.

Yes this cabinet was in with the tools, tool boxes, and tool trays. This cabinet was available with tools ($95) or without tools ($20). I think this kind of cabinet is still useful today, especilly where space is limited. If I can find one at a reasonable price, I'm going to be on it like white on rice!

 

[lauver]

lbgradwell,

It looks like we have a can of worms with the E/EE series code. On one hand we have Easco manufactured tools, and on the other hand we have Taiwan and China manufactured tools. I'm thinking of double listing the E/EE series code, one listing for Easco tools, and one listing for Taiwanese and Chinese tools. Does this seem like a reasonable way to handle multiple manufacturer problem? Or is it just meaningless detail that folks don't really care about?

 

[MAD]

lbgradwell,

It looks like we have a can of worms with the E/EE series code. On one hand we have Easco manufactured tools, and on the other hand we have Taiwan and China manufactured tools. I'm thinking of double listing the E/EE series code, one listing for Easco tools, and one listing for Taiwanese and Chinese tools. Does this seem like a reasonable way to handle multiple manufacturer problem? Or is it just meaningless detail that folks don't really care about?

Easco did at one time market a second line of tools called "Nova" that was made in Taiwan. Here are some examples on ebay.

http://search-desc.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&dfsp=32&from=R40&satitle=EASCO+NOVA&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=01360&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=32&fsoo=2

What makes you think that the E and EE series codes are Easco, other than that it sounds plausible? I am not saying that it is not Easco. Just that many of the known codes do not match the letters of the company name.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

Actually I got the idea from lbgradwell (post #2, this thread) when he and old salvage were speculating about series, order, and rough time frames. This discussion was loosely based on manu. acquisitions/mergers.

It seemed plausible to me then and it seems plausible now. And to date, not one person has offered an alternate manufacturer or questioned E = Easco (other than yourself).

 

[Hip2u77]

This may be old news, but . . but I bought a combo kit in 12/95 that came with "G" Sockets, "H" extentions, "J WF" and "K WF" screwdrivers, "V^" wrenches, and I'm not sure on the ratchets as they all say "VS", but I'm pretty sure I exchanged them all in the last 3-8 years.

I also just bought the 4 piece adaptor set and they're "G", and the fine-tooth 3/8 flex-head ratchet and it's "VVV." (These were both in the last month two months.