Craftsman : series time frame ?

[lauver]

The "H" series Allen wrenches, socket extensions, and nut drivers are all tools that are made at the Danaher /Holo-Krome plant in West Hartford CT.

MAD,

Nice work!!! But how did you make the connection to Holo-Krome?

 

[lauver]

The I circle wrench was purchased used but it has the 1960s crown logo. The similar wrenches I have with the Parker patent # (but no series code) were bought around 1986.

The entire center spacer of the wrench is plastic and it encloses the entire ratchet mechanism.

MAD,

OK, I'll modulate the "Way Back Machine" and transport I-circle to the 60's.

I saw a set of the I-circle RBE's on ebay not long ago. They looked as new; hard to believe they could be close to 50 years old.

You mentioned the Crown logo as a means of dating your wrench; I've been looking into the dates of Crown logo recently and can place it as early as 1960, based on catalog evidence. I can place it as late as 1964, also based on catalog evidence. I don't have any catalogs past 1964 but, I have two tools with the Crown logo that I purchased in 1968, so I feel like we could safely say the Crown logo was in use for the entire 60's decade. Do you have any sense of when the Crown logo finally went out of use?

 

[lauver]

Check out the unusual Craftsman ratchet in the following link posted by wrenchr:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22629

The 1st photo shows the 1/4" drive Cman ratchet mixed in with other tools. The last photo shows a close up of the ratchet.

Does anyone recognize this ratchet?

Does anyone remember when they were sold?

Does this ratchet design suggest any U.S. manufacturer?

 

[MAD]

MAD,

Nice work!!! But how did you make the connection to Holo-Krome?

I had a conversation with a guy in a local hardware store about Moore Drop Forge closing down a while back. He said that Danaher still made some tools nearby in CT. I did not think about it again until one of the Gearwrench guys mentioned in another thread that the new T-handle nut drivers were made in CT. I did a quick search and found a report of an industrial accident at the Holo-Krome plant in W. Hartford. The report happened to mention the types of tools made at the plant in addition to the socket head cap screws. All of the tools were types that often had "H" codes.

 

[MAD]

Check out the unusual Craftsman ratchet in the following link posted by wrenchr:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22629

The 1st photo shows the 1/4" drive Cman ratchet mixed in with other tools. The last photo shows a close up of the ratchet.

Does anyone recognize this ratchet?

Does anyone remember when they were sold?

Does this ratchet design suggest any U.S. manufacturer?

Those stainless ratchets were late 1980s I think. I don't know who made them.

 

[lauver]

Those stainless ratchets were late 1980s I think. I don't know who made them.

MAD,

Adam at CC owns some of those in different drive sizes and finishes (chrome and Stainless) and supplied me with the model numbers and a series code.

I've emailed Dave the Toolman and asked him to supply catalog dates for the various model numbers.

But the missing link is the manufacturer. That ratchet is very different than the MDF/Easco/Danaher teardrops and boxheads designs; The head shape in particular. I've looked at all kinds of ratchets and can't find anything that closely resembles it (Plomb made a few with that shape head but they were boxheads not teardrops). You mentioned the 1980's and Adam concurs. The 1980's were the Stanley years. Are you aware of any older Stanley teardrops that might look close to to these Craftsmans?

 

[PowderKeg]

Hey Lauver,

FWIW, I found 3 ratchet patents listing David S. Colvin as the inventor that look verrrry similar to that Craftsman stainless ratchet. However, there's no company assignee associated with Colvin or the patents. The patent dates are 1984, 1986, and 1990. The latter two are quick release. Unfortunately I don't have one to compare the internals (and don't really want one for what they've been selling for on fleabay).

1984 - 4485700
1986 - 4631988
1990 - 4903554

 

[lauver]

Hey Lauver,

FWIW, I found 3 ratchet patents listing David S. Colvin as the inventor that look verrrry similar to that Craftsman stainless ratchet. However, there's no company assignee associated with Colvin or the patents. The patent dates are 1984, 1986, and 1990. The latter two are quick release. Unfortunately I don't have one to compare the internals (and don't really want one for what they've been selling for on fleabay).

1984 - 4485700
1986 - 4631988
1990 - 4903554

PowderKeg,

Thanks for the patent numbers. It's a pitty the patents don't include the assignee. I've got nothing but a hunch...possibly Stanley because they were a supplemental supplier of ratchets during the 1980's. I've done a quick search of older Stanley ratchets and haven't found anything close.

Have you got any hunches or theories on possible OEM's for the Cman branded ratchets? It's a very unique design.

On one of the photo's wrencher posted I noticed what I think is a B series code and made in USA on the bottom side of the rubber handle. I checked all the OEM's that start with a B (Bonney, Billings, Blackhawk) but none of them had ratchets that look like the Cman ratchets.

 

[billymade]

I have never seen any other company sell a ratchet that looked like the Craftsman stainless steel models; I got one when they came out, broke quickly but a interesting historical footnote, in the history of Craftsman ratchets!

 

[PowderKeg]

My gut feeling is these ratchets didn't come from "the usual sources" ie. EASCO, Stanley, or any other well known hand tool manufacturer, but from some lesser known manufacturer/assembler. I'm probably wrong, but I don't recall ever seeing another thin-head ratchet design like this one in production.

I don't think stainless steel is particularly common for everyday "typical" tool production/use (mechanics, techs, DIY, etc) - relegated more to specialty use, like clean rooms or medical/sterile uses where carbon steel tools/plated tools won't hold up to repeated sterilization. It would seem to me to be a right expensive alloy to use, unless you have a very specific need for its properties. I'd also think that using stainless for even part of the ratchet - as I'm virtually certain these are just stainless bodied ratchets, with the gear, switch, pawl, spinner et.al. all carbon steel - would still require enough of a change in manufacturing/forging equipment/processes that a major tool manufacturer might not take it on just for one limited market (even one the size of Sears).

For a really wild-@ssed guess, I'm gonna say that Sears might have contracted these ratchets from a company that sourced the handles from another experienced stainless manufacturer, the guts from a third, and assembled them themselves to sell to Sears.

I'd also guess that Sears tried to capitalize on the "exotic" and "neato" factors of marketing a ratchet in an uncommon material, and lost when they proved unreliable and a poor seller. IIRC, these things were primarily catalog only - individual and in sets, I think - and were pretty expensive (at the time) compared to the other Craftsman ratchet options. Since they weren't completely stainless, they were of no use to those needing the particular properties of stainless tools, and also since they were part stainless, they cost more than the typical Sears shopper was willing to spend. Didn't the sets these came in have sockets with a big honkin' plastic collar around the base? I think those sockets were available as socket-only sets as well - don't recall them lasting very long either.

I'm no metallurgical engineer or marketing guru, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night....

(Okay! Okay! so it wasn't a Holiday Inn, it was a Country Inns & Estates. And it wasn't last night, it was Sat. night. And...)

 

[le6920]

Speaking of stainless, I am not sure if you have seen these before. Stainless wrenches. 1970s era. I have this version and few other slightly different C-Man stainless wrenches, with different shapes to them. Not sure if there were all sold or prototypes, medical use?

This is the more common design and came in a boxed set.

 

[64merc]

Regarding the stainless ratchet, I agree with PowderKeg on this one. My guess would be that they sourced it from some unknown company that specializes in stainless.

 

[billymade]

I got mine at a local Sears Store as a replacement for a 70s era fine tooth that broke and I do remember the plastic collar sockets that seemed to be part of a set.

 

[lauver]

Don't know about those SS combo wrenches, but the ratchets were available in two finishes, chrome and stainless, and had different model numbers to identify the finish.

Another possibility on the OEM might be a lesser known company that Stanley owned in the 80's, I think it was called National Tool Corp. or NTC and operated out of the Dallas area. Has anybody heard of them or have any links to company history?

 

[64merc]

Don't know about those SS combo wrenches, but the ratchets were available in two finishes, chrome and stainless, and had different model numbers to identify the finish.

Another possibility on the OEM might be a lesser known company that Stanley owned in the 80's, I think it was called National Tool Co. or NTC and operated out of the Dallas area. Has anybody heard of them or have any links to company history?

Is that the same company that may have produced the infamous "tri-wing" ratchets?

 

[lauver]

Is that the same company that may have produced the infamous "tri-wing" ratchets?

64 merc,

It's possible, NTC was acquired by Stanley and became one of their divisions. I have seen references to both Stanley Works and NTC as the source of the Tri-Wing ratchets and other E/EE tools. I don't think we'll ever know for sure. But either way, Stanley had the Craftsman contract, Stanley owned NTC, and Stanley had similar ratchets under the Stanley and Blackhawk brands, so I feel comfortable listing them as the OEM.

 

[PowderKeg]

Don't know about those SS combo wrenches, but the ratchets were available in two finishes, chrome and stainless, and had different model numbers to identify the finish.

Another possibility on the OEM might be a lesser known company that Stanley owned in the 80's, I think it was called National Tool Corp. or NTC and operated out of the Dallas area. Has anybody heard of them or have any links to company history?

I believe you're thinking of National Hand Tool - a portion of a post (to the old ToolSource board?) from the venerable John Garner from several years ago:

Around 1970, New Britain sunk a lot of money into a greenfield factory in the Carolinas. At the time it was built, the new plant was state-of-the-art and New Britain had high hopes of significantly increasing their total market share. By 1982 (or was it 1984?), though, they had had enough and closed down the hand tool business.

National Hand Tool of Dallas (a US company that I understand was owned by a Taiwanese businessman who also owned tool factories in Taiwan) bought many of New Britain's assets at the auction, including tool designs, production machinery, and the Blackhawk and Husky names. National Hand Tool moved much of the production equipment to Dallas and began producing and marketing the Blackhawk and Husky lines themselves, sticking to the traditional professional-automotive and do-it-yourself markets respectively for their two new brands.

A couple of years later, Stanley Works bought National Hand Tool. Stanley had decided a few years earlier to make a move into the mechanic's tool business, buying MAC and soon thereafter Ingersoll-Rand's Hand Tool Division (Proto and Challenger). Once they added National Hand Tool to their stable of brands, they "rationalized" the lines somewhat moving marketing responsibility for the Blackhawk line to the ex-IR Proto group, discontinuing the Husky line, changing the Challenger brand from "Challenger by Proto" to "Stanley Challenger", and adding a Stanley-branded line sold through "consumer" channels including Wal-Mart. (The Husky name has since been licensed to Home Depot as an "exclusive" brand; I believe that Stanley still owns the Husky name.)

And from another post, regarding the round-head Craftsman ratchets:

If I've got the timing right, New Britain did produce a limited selection of Craftsman tools in the early 1980's -- ratchets that bracketed the Moore/Easco standard oval-head and fine-tooth round head ratchets; New Britain produced "economy model" round-head ratchets (no quick-release, integral top-mounted spinner, pseudo-Snap-On grip shape) and "Sears Best" quick-disassembly-for-easy-cleaning round-head ratchets (quick release, knurled round grip as I remember them). These ratchets only stayed in the C'man line for a couple of years, and it is possible that they were built not by New Britain but by NB's sort-of-successor National Hand Tool.

And from yet another post that may better quantify Stanley's actual Craftsman connection:

In the early to mid 1980's Sears contracted with National Hand Tool of Dallas to produce two lines of Craftsman-brand ratchets. The first of these was to be the Craftsman super-premium (highest price) ratchet -- fully polished, round shank, fine-tooth round head with quick-release socket retainer and a top-mounted spinner -- that could be easily taken down for cleaning by simply pressing the socket-release button a bit harder. Reassembly was equally quick and easy, just push the mechanism back into the head until the retainers pop into place. If I recall correctly, this line of ratchets had a knurled grip. The mechanism used in this line of ratchets was a variant of the New Britain mechanism that National Hand Tool aquired from New Britain when the latter company shut down their mechanic's hand tool operations.

National Hand Tool also provided Sears with a line of round-head non-quick-release ratchets with top-mounted spinners that were originally sold in three-piece sets (1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 inch drive) as "advertised specials" for a price much lower than the Moore/Easco/Danaher oval-head Craftsman ratchets. The particular National Hand Tool ratchets used what was essentially a Wright-type mechanism with a single oscillating pawl.
Stanley bought National Hand Tool before NHT's contract with Sears was ended, and only in that way did Stanley provide any significant number of Craftsman-branded mechanic's hand tools to Sears.

Stanley did provide a few Craftsman-branded tools to Sears before then, but they were carpentry / woodworking tools rather than wrenches and sockets. To the best of my knowledge, Stanley was never more than a "small potatoes" supplier of hand tools to Sears. (On the other hand, Stanley was one of the major suppliers of carpenter's tools to Montgomery Ward.)


John Garner is simply an amazing fount of information! One of these days I'm gonna go thru the 1"+ thick folder of printouts I have from the old ToolSource board and try scanning them in...

 

[PowderKeg]

Oh yeah, and that stainless wrench is interesting - something I don't recall ever seeing in the Craftsman catalogs I drooled over sooooo many years ago.

It's possible, NTC was acquired by Stanley and became one of their divisions. I have seen references to both Stanley Works and NTC as the source of the Tri-Wing ratchets and other E/EE tools. I don't think we'll ever know for sure. But either way, Stanley had the Craftsman contract, Stanley owned NTC, and Stanley had similar ratchets under the Stanley and Blackhawk brands, so I feel comfortable listing them as the OEM.

Lauver, considering what I dug up on John G.'s postings in the past on Craftsman, National Hand Tool, and Stanley relationships, I'd maybe reconsider crediting Stanley for those ratchets and instead credit NHT - since it appears Stanley only got involved via the NHT buyout near the end of that contract. Just IMHO. Personally, I put ALOT of weight on John G.'s vast knowledge of the hand tool industry.

I'm still gonna stay with my guess that the stainless ratchet came from a source other than Moore/Easco/New Britain/NHT/Stanley/any other major tool manufacturer. That thing is just too different from anything made by any of those companies around that time - at least anything that's been seen so far. I'm probably wrong, but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it...

 

[lauver]

PowderKeg,

Thanks for the two posts above; A lot to think about. I'll sift back through all this and reevaluate the Tri-Wing thing (EE series ratchets).

And, I've made no OEM decisions on the stainless ratchets; it's still up in the air...and you may be right on the "left field" OEM for these ratchets. Like I said, this ratchtet design is unique. I'm glad we have some patent history on it...at least it gives us an approximate time frame.

 

[lauver]

Speaking of stainless, I am not sure if you have seen these before. Stainless wrenches. 1970s era. I have this version and few other slightly different C-Man stainless wrenches, with different shapes to them. Not sure if there were all sold or prototypes, medical use?

This is the more common design and came in a boxed set.

le6920,

Thanks for the SS combo wrench photo and post.

Is there a model number and/or series code stamped on the other side of that wrench? If so, please post.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

Just an update on the S-circle Kastar series code.

I was in Sears last night looking at all the feeler and wire guage sets. Most were stamped S-circle, some so small you need a magnifying glass to read the code. There was also some examples that, because of the packaging, I could not read any series codes.

So I'm going to revise the current date range from 1960 - 1964 to 1960 - 2008. There may have been intervening years when Kastar did not supply these tools or when multiple OEM's supplied these tools but I don't currently have any data to support these possibilities.

Thanks again for your posts and clarifications on the S-circle series.

 

[lauver]

Interested parties,

I've just completed some updates to the series code summary list (page 7, post 1969, this thread). The new codes are listed below by OEM (and are highlighted in red on the summary list):

Danaher -- GD2, L1X, M6W, and T5W.

Pratt Read -- Q PR.

Western Forge -- WF K, WF L, WF R, B WF, C WF, E WF, L WF, M WF, N WF, Q WF, + WF, * WF, ∆ WF, and □ WF.

SK -- X.

We know the OEM's for these codes, but have little or no information on possible date ranges. The Pratt Reed and Western Forge codes all apply to screw drivers. If you can supply approximate purchase dates, please post.

 

[lauver]

Regarding Danaher V^ (thats V upsidedown V) and VA Series codes:

As I was updating the series code list, the V^ and VA series codes caught my eye. I looked through my tool inventory and I couldn't find a single tool with a VA series code. On the other hand, I have many examples of V^ amongst my tools. This made me wonder if V^ and VA are really one in the same (you know, somebody looks at a V^ and mistakenly thinks it's a VA...it could easily happen).

Can anyone produce a tool (think open end, combination, and box end wrenches) with a bonified VA series code on it? If so, please post a close-up photo showing the VA code stamping.

Thanks for any help on this one!

EDIT: I went by my local Sears today and carefully looked at all the tools on the racks. I found many example of V^ among combo wrenches, box end wrenches, and RFP ratcheting combo wrenches. I found no tools in any category with VA series codes. This pretty much confirms my suspicions, but I would like some confirmation/deconfirmation from other folks.

 

[lauver]

Ran across a new series code at Sears yesterday. The code L SI was found on a 5 piece file set, model number 31323. These are a fairly new item.

Anyone know who makes these files?

Any help appreciated.

 

[64merc]

Lauver, I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I found an really old looking Craftsman screwdriver that just says (IIRC) "Forged" and has a "G" code. Do you know who made this? Thanks

 

[lauver]

Hey 64,

MAD has a couple of old Cman screw drivers with G-circle codes on them (he posted photo's of them somewhere on this thread...check em out).

Best guess is Lectrolite ca. 1949 - 1964.

The owner of Lectrolite started a new company, Western Forge, in 1965 and became a major long-term supplier to Sears.

Hope this helps.

PS--Anytime you want to check series codes, OEM's, and date ranges, see page 7, post #69, this thread. If you want photo's or discussion, you have to wade thru miles of posts.

 

[Titus]

My father-in-law bought a box of tools at the swap meet last weekend and gave me all the metric stuff (he says there is no place in his garage for anything metric). Among the tools, there was a Craftsman 1/4" drive 12 point metric socket set in a gray metal tray. The sockets are marked with a V, and there is no other markings that provide a clue to me. These could be 20 years old or could be 50... I don't have a clue.

 

[lauver]

My father-in-law bought a box of tools at the swap meet last weekend and gave me all the metric stuff (he says there is no place in his garage for anything metric). Among the tools, there was a Craftsman 1/4" drive 12 point metric socket set in a gray metal tray. The sockets are marked with a V, and there is no other markings that provide a clue to me. These could be 20 years old or could be 50... I don't have a clue.

Titus,

The V series code was in use beween 1947 and 1989. If I had to take a guess on the sockets and metal tray you posted, I would date them from the mid to late 1960's.

 

[krusty the clown]

MAD,



Among the Danaher Corp subsidiaries, three caught my eye:
Kingsley Tools, Inc. (you mentioned this one before)
Mechanics Custom Tools Corp. (have you heard of them?)
Lea Way Hand Tool Corp. (have you heard of them?)

mechanics custom tools corp is the corporation that owns NMTC inc. nmtc inc is matco tools.


you will have a hard time separating the divisions of DTG. all of the plants operate as DTG not as armstrong, matco, kd, etc.

 

[lauver]

Krusty,

Thanks for the information on Danaher subsidiaries and divisions. You're right, everytime I think I have Danaher figured out, I learn something new that changes everything.

 

[Titus]

Titus,

The V series code was in use beween 1947 and 1989. If I had to take a guess on the sockets and metal tray you posted, I would date them from the mid to late 1960's.

Cool, Thanks!

 

[lauver]

Finally figured out the OEM for the Craftsman Premium File sets (3 pc, 5 pc, & 8 pc sets). L SI = Simonds International (no stranger to files and cutting tools).

I think these file sets were new in 2008. If anybody bought any of these file sets prior to 2008, let me know. Until I hear otherwise, I list them as 2008 and forward.

Also, nobody posted any hard evidence of a VA series code. I'm going to delete this series code and combine the date range with the V^ series code. I believe VA was a case of mistaken identity from the git go.

Has anybody noticed the new dual labeled chrome sockets? They are laser etched and stamped, and the model numbers and series codes are stamped on the sockets! Thank you Jesus!!! The new dual stamped sockets have a G2D series code. I also found a GD series code on some other sockets.

Last, but not least, billymade found an old hand reamer with a Z series code. This moves the date range for Mayhew all the way back to 1957.

 

[Elroy]

The Elroy was digging through the tool box this afternoon and noticed the "code" stamping on this 1/2" Craftsman slider. Can't ever recall seeing a "U" code before.

What do you guys know about this series??

 

[lauver]

Elroy,

Your 1/2" drive sliding bar is only the 2nd U-circle tool we've seen. It was made by Plomb. The U-circle tools were only offered by Sears between 1944 and 1948; this makes your U-circle tool "pretty dang rare".

And thanks for posting the photo's; your camera work is 2nd to none.

PS-- If you ever want to check a series code, the latest list is always available on page 7, post 69, this thread.

 

[Elroy]

If you ever want to check a series code, the latest list is always available on page 7, post 69, this thread.

Excellent and so noted.

Thank you for the prompt response.

 

[Da Bull]

Picked these up today, $5.00 for all 3, at the flea market
I think these are Canadian Craftsman, made offshore, not sure though.
Any thoughts where they could be from?
Numbers are ST 40688, ST 40686, ST 40685

 

[T56 Impala]

Small suggestion, move the know date codes list to the first page please. I have an interest in the 3 letter date codes. Its near impossible to find the list.

I recently found a ratchet marked VVT. Wondering about its production date.

 

[Fedwrench]

Small suggestion, move the know date codes list to the first page please. I have an interest in the 3 letter date codes. Its near impossible to find the list.

I recently found a ratchet marked VVT. Wondering about its production date.

This thread is so large now, perhaps the 3 digit date codes could be a sticky at the beginning of the forum or a separate thread?

 

[lauver]

T56 Impala & Fedwrench,

You're right, the thread is long and cumbersome; I'm thinking of starting a new thread when I do the next list update.

Regarding the VVT series--Danaher, ca. 2004-2005 (based on only a few observations).

 

[T56 Impala]

Thanks for that info. It fits into what I was thinking. (I recently picked up 2 boxes of misc. tools from my dad.) I knew it was newer.