Good point. We do like lowball deals, but only two point
Craftsman tools disappearing?
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Boogerman
Well-known member
Have no nostalgia for Craftsman. Gladly offload ones have for $.50 apiece if someone buy all and count them. Probably 300 to 400 pieces. They work, that about all can say; served their purpose at time. They're not later junk, many old V series, or newer VV or G. Craftsman better place to be from than be at now.
My guess is that 99% of the tools are 'good enough' for 99% of the use. It looks like a tough ol' business to me with a long slide to lower and lower margins, fewer larger companies since there's an economy of scale.
OTOH, maybe there's a genius business idea in going to some Asian trade fair, hitting up the socket manufacturers, and resurrecting the 'BOG' brand of tools. Next up will be a fleet of 'BOG' trucks with EZ-payment plans for all. (Speaking of which, does Snap-on issue a branded VISA card? They are missing a trick if not.)
It's certainly a cheap way to build a socket set. I just finished up my 1/4" SAE and metric junkyard set, all Craftsman VV/G from the ReStore. Total cost including the rails was $4 for both sets. 3/8" SAE was done a while back, but it's more exotic brands. 3/8" metric looks tricky if I don't want unbranded. Construction guys seem to buy cheap socket sets that their widows donate.
New tag line: CRAFTSMAN. TOOLS FOR DONATION.
as mentioned above by some wag, 'CRAFTSPEOPLE' would be a brilliant new name, although the lettered codes would have to be longer than 'VV' or 'G'. The employees at ACE, THE HELPFUL HARDWARE FOLKS would have a new line.
Andres26tnt
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Lol feels like karma if apex gets bought out by private equity lol, they themselves destroyed alot of brands.
Craftsman WAS a home run for several factors:
- They were very good tools at the time
- They were very easy to buy. (Sears stores were prolific along with mail order)
- They had the best warranty ever
That was then, this is now:
- The brand loyalty has long since worn off. They are just another brand in a sea of good usable tools.
- Tools are easier to buy than ever before. (across all channels.)
- Warranty is no longer a differentiator
My prediction is the brand will continue on indefinitely but will never be as prominent as it once was.
- They were very good tools at the time
- They were very easy to buy. (Sears stores were prolific along with mail order)
- They had the best warranty ever
That was then, this is now:
- The brand loyalty has long since worn off. They are just another brand in a sea of good usable tools.
- Tools are easier to buy than ever before. (across all channels.)
- Warranty is no longer a differentiator
My prediction is the brand will continue on indefinitely but will never be as prominent as it once was.
Well, I was using that to emphasize that "Craftsman" isn't going anywhere either - but hasn't SBD kind of started that, somewhat, at least in some markets?
It doesn't seem to me that Stanley is a tool brand with a full catalogue anymore. Sure they've got measuring tapes, knifes, pry bars and some storage items, but it's only a fraction of the offerings under the Craftsman brand.
...and it isn't "Stanley Tools" anymore. It's Stanley Black & Decker.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
You're not wrong. I think companies can only get so big before they forget why they exist. They may feel the need to branch out and capitalize on the name, but at some point, people will get wise. Would you buy a Porter Cable screwdriver because you had the router? These days you can look up "screwdriver reviews" and get tons of feedback and see which companies make the "best" screwdriver. People are getting wise to "label-slap". I saw that Ryobi is coming out with hand tools. I have their battery-powered tools, but I'm not gonna buy a screwdriver from them. That seems outside their area of expertise. Does the typical homeowner at a big box store care or know that Ryobi is slapping a label on a tool made by someone else? I realize Sears did that, but I would argue they are a different case because they went to a specialist to get a product made and were known for the variety of tools they sold.
To your point, how many pliers can Channel-lock make, anyway? They might feel the need to branch out and capitalize on their brand, but I'm not sure I'd buy a Channel-lock drill. The could also make private label pliers for others.
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Aaron_W
Well-known member
This came up in the Ryobi hand tools thread. Some of this comes down to distribution. A store that carries Ryobi may choose to add other Ryobi products vs picking another brand, so offering a broad range of products may allow a store to fill shelves with your products, instead of a competitors products.
You might not choose Ryobi screwdrivers over Craftsman or Stanley, but if they are the only screwdrivers available you might.
neophyte
Well-known member
Stanley used to have a power tool division.Well, I was using that to emphasize that "Craftsman" isn't going anywhere either - but hasn't SBD kind of started that, somewhat, at least in some markets?
It doesn't seem to me that Stanley is a tool brand with a full catalogue anymore. Sure they've got measuring tapes, knifes, pry bars and some storage items, but it's only a fraction of the offerings under the Craftsman brand.
...and it isn't "Stanley Tools" anymore. It's Stanley Black & Decker.
Stanley sold the power tool division to Bosch, maybe to get the funds to solidify their shrinking share of the tool market.
A few decades later, and Stanley joins ip with Black & Decker, and now has a power tool division again, plus the B&D Workmate, which probably has a history of $1,000,000,000 in sales, for just the variations on that single item.
neophyte
Well-known member
Use the Porter Cable name for a drill driver or impact driver.
Sell a “Porter Cable” manual bit driver, that comes with bits rated for power or impact use, that fit the power tool chuck well.
If you display the manual driver near the power tool, a decent percentage of customers may also purchase the manual driver, with the power tool.
IRQVET
Well-known member
Crescent and Craftsman have sadly both moved things to China, like a lot of other brands.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
Regarding the Channellock vacuum: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
Are people that misinformed? This is not what CL is known for, so why would anyone buy it?
Are people that misinformed? This is not what CL is known for, so why would anyone buy it?
BTL-A4
Well-known member
I'm surprised Channellock doesn't make these, it seems like it's right up their alley. Come to think of it, might be a patent issue. Still, this is the kind of thing they could do: make tools that are adjacent in form and function to what they already make.Channellock even has pliers in the catalogue they don't make themselves:
BTL-A4
Well-known member
That makes sense. I'm coming to the realization that for most people, a screwdriver is a screwdriver. I wouldn't buy one just because it says Ryobi and matches my other tools, but I guess plenty of other people do.
I'd actually go to another store to get what I want, but I'm luck to have 3 hardware stores within 15 minutes.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
At least something like that is adjacent to the form and function of a router (power tool with a bit of some sort). I'm not sure I'd get a Porter Cable hammer, though, just because it said Porter Cable on it and matched my other tools.
Junkdrawer Dog
Well-known member
There are a slew of Channellock branded products sold by Do It Best Hardware that license the Channellock name. Other than the licensing agreement and associated payment stream, I don't believe Channellock has any other involvement.
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Aaron_W
Well-known member
Yeah I think it comes into effect more for something like one of those rural hardware / grocery / auto parts / laundromat/ gas station stores.
neophyte
Well-known member
Channellock used to manufacture automatically adjusting locking pliers, as well as a more conventional type.
My best guess on why they don’t manufacture locking pliers nowadays is production cost, verses the low price consumers expect to pay given all the cheap imported locking pliers.
Locking pliers generally require both forged parts,
as well as the stamped bent, and formed sheet metal frames.
This requires different types of tooling to stamp and form the sheet metal,
Plus the extra step of riveting and brazing the forged jaws into the sheet steel handles.
Then, most locking pliers are also available in a chrome plated finish, and Channellock doesn’t chrome plate their pliers, and likely doesn’t gave facilities to do so.
The extra cost of stamping and forming equipment, (or laser cutting equipment), plus setting up a brazing/welding section, etc. probably isn’t worth it.
Malco was familiar with tool manufacture, yet still took way longer to set up for “Eagle Grip” locking plier production than was expected, and still had to charge four or five times as much for the locking pliers as Vise Grips cost.
Snap-On only bought the line once the line was up and running, and Malco had decided to throw in the towel.
"Channellock" Pliers, you got 'em,lets see 'em
After a commet like "Don't you have enough pliers?" the other day she got me wondering.....do you ever have enough?
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Rockable
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I just went to ol' Google and searched for "channellock -pliers -socket -screwdriver -wrench"
Marvel at the giant array of products. Those production people in Meadville must be busy as all get-out.
It's all I can do to not fire up Photoshop and make up my own. Adult products will never be the same.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
I was at one of the big box stores the other day and saw Channellock next to the store brand. You could get 3 pairs of the store brand pliers for less than the cost of one pair of Channellocks. I'd still buy the CL's. I guess Joe/Jane Homeowner would go for the "more pliers for less money option" though.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
I guess I'm just surprised that people still fall for brands when that brand is making something outside of what the brand was known for. Channellock is not known for vacuums, yet they make one, and people will buy it. I guess I thought people did more research before buying anything.
Is it an all right vacuum?
If so , who cares?
If it’s a piece of junk, well then let it rip.
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
Channel lock vacuums are made by cleva I think. They're one of the major players.
I vaguely remember that DeWalt had a really nice rather quiet shop vac and I forget off hand who actually makes it.
So unless you're looking for very specific features...
BTL-A4
Well-known member
Good point. It just seems to me that Channellock makes pliers, and vacuums are a bit outside what I consider their area of expertise. Seems like they are capitalizing on a brand in a way that doesn't make sense and will confuse consumers. "Channellock" doesn't sound like anything to do with vacuums to me.
Dewalt seems more like Craftsman: it's a general tool brand and not really specific to any one type of tool. It makes a little more sense to have the brand make many different types of tools and other products.
There are Snap-On socks and ratchet straps and all sorts stuff like that.
firebirdparts
Well-known member
I just saw a SnapOn battleship game on Facebook Marketplace today.
Anyway, to the subject, I guess the product has to speak for itself. It has to have some brand on there, and you can't really hold that against the product. I personally think the idea of brands having value is super weird, but I know that's a thing. To me it's very obvious that they really DO NOT. The product might be good, and it might be good at the price. The name doesn't convey that. I don't think anybody needs to agree with me.
Anyway, to the subject, I guess the product has to speak for itself. It has to have some brand on there, and you can't really hold that against the product. I personally think the idea of brands having value is super weird, but I know that's a thing. To me it's very obvious that they really DO NOT. The product might be good, and it might be good at the price. The name doesn't convey that. I don't think anybody needs to agree with me.
I once bought a Thermos branded grill, seemingly a limited run holiday special.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
Clothing could be considered a special case: all the fanbois wanna wear gear that shows up their love of a particular brand. Same with the Snap-On game; it's a marketing thing. They have Dewalt hoodies at Home Depot. If I was a yellow Kool-Aid drinker I'd totally get one.
BTL-A4
Well-known member
Could they have another brand name on there? For example, Lexus is just a Toyota, but no one in the US would pay $70K for a Toyota, so they came up with the luxury brand.
Brands absolutely have a value, but companies are overdoing it with all the products they slap the name on. Snap-On dishes! Dewalt candle holders! Channellock corn chips!
finn
Well-known member
You’re correct that the use of a brand name for something that traditionally is outside the historical business might seem a little odd at first, but it’s a logical method of increasing product sales generated revenue, and generating revenue is really the only purpose of having a recognizable brand name in the first place.
it’s not unusual for companies to offer their brand name to other companies in return for a licensing fee.
It’s been going on for decades.
Explain why it’s ok for SnapOn to sell test equipment and open end and combination wrenches then.
You may snap a socket on to a ratchet, but you don’t snap a brake line wrench on to a bleeder, and what, exactly is the process to snap a pry bar onto something, or a diagnostic tool , for that matter.
Me thinks you’re overthinking this.
The market must surely be saturated with tool brands ...........Id also think in mechanics hand tools ,the only variable would be the thickness of the plating,and million tooth ratchets (24 - 36t was enough for me and still is.)...........the only really poorly made tools Ive seen in the last 30 years would be Chinese vice grips where the adjuster screw mushrooms ............and at this point I might add ,I broke the adjuster on my English made Mole pliers,and replaced it with a common bolt.
Tools (especially hand tools) are incredibly subjective - virtually everyone who turns wrenches for a living has his/her favorites, and some will not deviate at all.
My partner will not allow any wrench other than a Williams in his box. I personally am not too picky, but I will not vary from RP Craftsmans as my bench set (virtually everything in my bench tools is Craftsman) - that’s what has been there since I was an apprentice, and I see no reason to change.
Another thing you run into in industrial work is that some shops have a strict “no Chinese tools” policy, some are “USA only”.
I must admit to having a thing against sockets that are all one diameter ......used to be a sign of cheap made from soft steel ........ a couple of times I been asked for a tool list ,and when I list 1'' socket sets and 1'' rattle guns and 100 ton hydraulic pullers usually impresses them.
I’ve threatened more than once to buy the Channellock wheelbarrow at DoitBest….
Wow gloves and bumper guards on the handle. I'm surprised he isn't also wearing safety glasses, a hard hat, ear muffs, and a safety vest. I'm not sure of those shoes have a composite toe or not...
I like the color scheme and wheels on that wheel barrow. The blue part looks to be aluminum and the black parts probably steel.
Do-It-Best sounds like a name bean counters would come up with. I'd use something like Git-2-Work!
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ owned by "Hardware Wholesalers Inc." - tools are stamped "HWI". Perhaps they had identity issues?