Craftsman vanadium water pump pliers

[nz44tool]

Please forgive me if this has already been discussed! (If so, I couldn't find it.)
Does anyone else have a pair of these? I'm beginning to think they may not be common.
BT stamp is either Vlchek or New Britain, late '30s, according to the code list.
I can't find a catalog that mentions them either.
Thank you for your patience.

 

[four.cycle]

per @lauver's list:
BT = Vlchek, ca. 1936 - 1938

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any catalog available for those years. The earliest Craftsman catalog we have is 1939.

There are water pump pliers on page 20 in the 1939 Craftsman catalog but the generalized "artist rendition" illustration gives no clues as to who the manufacturer might have been.

 

[nz44tool]

Thanks, four.cycle - yeah, I looked at that catalog, noticed that "Vanadium" isn't mentioned, at least not for the pliers.

 

[four.cycle]

^ We've had a couple lengthy discussions here regarding "artists rendition" images found in old catalogs. Some of them will drive you nuts.
Bottom line: you cannot trust "artists rendition" in a catalog. Artists, as artists, take all kinds of liberties, and the images found in catalogs may or may not be an exact match to what the actual item looks like. The examples of that are countless - particularly annoying are latches and handles on tool "carry boxes".

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Please forgive me if this has already been discussed! (If so, I couldn't find it.)

If you mean these particular waterpump pliers, in particular, I don't recall. It is a Long C era Craftsman tool, we have a thread decidated to the subject of all Long C era Craftsman tools, we have discussed water pump pliers, "BT" codes, and Vanadium era tools in general on the Long C Craftsman tools thread, and because most longtime contributors tend to post their Long C tools in that thread for discussion continuity purposes, regardless of what type they are or who made them, you might want to search that thread in particular. Even if they haven't been discussed, you might glean information from the conversation about Vanadium era pliers, mfgrs, and the "BT" codes.

Does anyone else have a pair of these?

I have the Vlchek in-housr model. Mine are wartime, marked ALLOY STEEL, probably made of triple-alloy "New Emergency" steel, and have a natural steel finish, but I have zero doubt that Vlchek made the earlier Crafty version you have. Not only because I have other Long C era Craftsman "BT" tools unmistakably made by Vlchek (e.g., ball-pein hammers), but because they are identical. If you look in the 1938 Vlchek catalog, you'll see your water pump pliers. Mine are linked in the Vlchek thread here...
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/show-your-vlchek-tools.278503/page-7#post-9274714

 

[nz44tool]

If you mean these particular waterpump pliers, in particular, I don't recall. It is a Long C era Craftsman tool, we have a thread decidated to the subject of all Long C era Craftsman tools, we have discussed water pump pliers, "BT" codes, and Vanadium era tools in general on the Long C Craftsman tools thread, and because most longtime contributors tend to post their Long C tools in that thread for discussion continuity purposes, regardless of what type they are or who made them, you might want to search that thread in particular. Even if they haven't been discussed, you might glean information from the conversation about Vanadium era pliers, mfgrs, and the "BT" codes.

I have the Vlchek in-housr model. Mine are wartime, marked ALLOY STEEL, probably made of triple-alloy "New Emergency" steel, and have a natural steel finish, but I have zero doubt that Vlchek made the earlier Crafty version you have. Not only because I have other Long C era Craftsman "BT" tools unmistakably made by Vlchek (e.g., ball-pein hammers), but because they are identical. If you look in the 1938 Vlchek catalog, you'll see your water pump pliers. Mine are linked in the Vlchek thread here...
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/show-your-vlchek-tools.278503/page-7#post-9274714

Thanks - I didn't see the Long C thread in the list (until just now). Is there a way to search that thread for water pump pliers? 122 pages to scan is a little intimidating! I did look through the first 12 or so - lotta great info.
I looked at the Vlchek catalog; agree that they're the likely maker. The New Britain P-30 plier (catalog 57M) looks kinda like them too.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks - I didn't see the Long C thread in the list.

Is there a way to search that thread for water pump pliers?

Yes. All threads are searchable. Click on the Search button at the top right of the forum. You can search on 'Everywhere (entire site, all forums), 'This forum' (just the forum you're in) or 'This Thread' (just the thread you're in).



You can also qualify searches further in [Advanced search] by username and time.



I don't recall these waterpump pliers coming up before, though. That was just long term, next time, etc advice.

I looked at the Vlchek catalog; agree that they're the likely maker.

Did you look at my Vlchek waterpump pliers? I have zero doubt that your waterpump pliers were made by Vlchek.

 

[nz44tool]

Yes. All threads are searchable. Click on the Search button at the top right of the forum. You can search on 'Everywhere (entire site, all forums), 'This forum' (just the forum you're in) or 'This Thread' (just the thread you're in).



You can also qualify searches further in [Advanced search] by username and time.



I don't recall these waterpump pliers coming up before, though. That was just long term, next time, etc advice.


Did you look at my Vlchek waterpump pliers? I have zero doubt that your waterpump pliers were made by Vlchek.

Thanks once again for all your help; sorry to waste your time pointing out stuff that's right there to be seen!
I did see your Vlchek pliers - the resemblance is pretty clear, for sure.
Buffalo NY must have had lots of Vlchek floating around, because that name has stuck in my head since I was very young. Every time I saw a Vlchek wrench I thought "where is that missing letter?"

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks once again for all your help; sorry to waste your time pointing out stuff that's right there to be seen!

No trouble at all. My pleasure. The forum takes some getting used to. As I recently joked with a long-time member and friend who has compared me, complimentarily, to a Drill Instructor, the ulterior motive to selfless helping is selfish training! Seriously, I find the forum much more useful and enjoyable when the discussions are organized and feel less like a starting-all-over-again free-for-all mess. Nobody expects anyone to read 122 pages. But finding the most appropriate existing threads, searching them, doing some reading, adding to them, and asking questions often gets the most responses, the best responses, and makes discussions of long-term periodic topics easier to navigate.

Every time I saw a Vlchek wrench I thought "where is that missing letter?"

I am 100% Slovak by ethnicity and I became fluent in several other Slavic languages as a student at the Defense Language Institute, so I am used to consonant digraphs (sometimes called liquid consonants), but yeah, that Czech "Vl" sound is weird for most people.

You know they literally added a letter - an "e" and a second "e" (resulting in "Velcheck"), as a sort of pronunciation-oriented branding device in their literature (ads, catalogs, etc) in the 30's, right? ("Vullcheck" would be more accurate. The implied vowel is much more swallowed than an open-mouthed "e".)

You think Vlchek is bad? Have a go at this one: Strč prst skrz krk.

Believe it or not, that is a complete sentence, with no vowels. It's a famous silly tongue twister that teaches kids and foreigners liquid consonant pronunciation. It literally means, "Stick a finger through your neck," and is pronounced like Stirch purst skurz kirk. All those vowels are implied.

 

[RTM]

Is there a way to search that thread for water pump pliers

The bear of the search Lugz pointed out, is whether people (ETA GJ members) called them waterpump pliers specifically, vs Tongue n groove, other pet name, etc.

One tip for searching pictures, rather than scroll down the whole page, is to click on the first pic, then look at the film strip at the bottom for the shape you are looking for. Doesn’t necessarily show them all, but it’s faster.

 

[nz44tool]

The bear of the search Lugz pointed out, is whether people called them waterpump pliers specifically, vs Tongue n groove, other pet name, etc.

One tip for searching pictures, rather than scroll down the whole page, is to click on the first pic, then look at the film strip at the bottom for the shape you are looking for. Doesn’t necessarily show them all, but it’s faster.

...even the earlier catalogs often refer to them as water-pump pliers, for want of a better (trade) name. Everyone knew what they meant, though, back in that era when many folks had actually used water pumps.

 

[nz44tool]

No trouble at all. My pleasure. The forum takes some getting used to. As I recently joked with a long-time member and friend who has compared me, complimentarily, to a Drill Instructor, the ulterior motive to selfless helping is selfish training! Seriously, I find the forum much more useful and enjoyable when the discussions are organized and feel less like a starting-all-over-again free-for-all mess. Nobody expects anyone to read 122 pages. But finding the most appropriate existing threads, searching them, doing some reading, adding to them, and asking questions often gets the most responses, the best responses, and makes discussions of long-term periodic topics easier to navigate.

I am 100% Slovak by ethnicity and I became fluent in several other Slavic languages as a student at the Defense Language Institute, so I am used to consonant digraphs (sometimes called liquid consonants), but yeah, that Czech "Vl" sound is weird for most people.

You know they literally added a letter - an "e" and a second "e" (resulting in "Velcheck"), as a sort of pronunciation-oriented branding device in their literature (ads, catalogs, etc) in the 30's, right? ("Vullcheck" would be more accurate. The implied vowel is much more swallowed than an open-mouthed "e".)

You think Vlchek is bad? Have a go at this one: Strč prst skrz krk.

Believe it or not, that is a complete sentence, with no vowels. It's a famous silly tongue twister that teaches kids and foreigners liquid consonant pronunciation. It literally means, "Stick a finger through your neck," and is pronounced like Stirch purst skurz kirk. All those vowels are implied.

My dad was Romanian, and could get along in quite a few languages (as was common in Europe at the time). Every now and then he'd spring something from one of the Balkan dialects on us. I studied German in high school and college (uselessly). A word I still like: Geschäftsschluss (business closing) - 7 consonants in a row.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...even the earlier catalogs often refer to them as water-pump pliers, for want of a better (trade) name. Everyone knew what they meant, though, back in that era when many folks had actually used water pumps.

I think what RTM meant was a search would be dependent on what members called them when they posted them, if they called them anything at all. (The bane of using the forum as an encyclopedic source is members not using much or any text at alI, just being photo happy. It is completely useless for finding later.) I do seem to recall waterpump pliers being posted and discussed on the Long C thread, just not any that I would have immediately identified as being made by Vlchek.

(As for their history, you may or may not already know, before the advent of the adjustable water pump pliers, water pumps were repacked using water pump wrenches, that came in sets of several, with a range of wide mouths equivalent to the opening capacities of the adjustable water pump pliers that replaced them! Ironically, most guys probably call them "Channellocks" today and they get used on anything but water pumps.)

Geschäftsschluss

That's a good one.

 

[nz44tool]

I think what RTM meant was a search would be dependent on what members called them when they posted them, if they called them anything at all. (The bane of using the forum as an encyclopedic source is members not using much or any text at alI, just being photo happy. It is completely useless for finding later.) I do seem to recall waterpump pliers being posted and discussed on the Long C thread, just not any that I would have immediately identified as being made by Vlchek.

(As for their history, you may or may not already know, before the advent of the adjustable water pump pliers, water pumps were repacked using water pump wrenches, that came in sets of several, with a range of wide mouths equivalent to the opening capacities of the adjustable water pump pliers that replaced them! Ironically, most guys probably call them "Channellocks" today and they get used on anything but water pumps.)

That's a good one.

(As you may or may not already know, before the advent of the adjustable water pump pliers, water pumps were repacked using water pump wrenches, that came in sets of several, with a range of wide mouths equivalent to the opening capacities of the adjustable water pump pliers that replaced them!)

Didn't know that!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Didn't know that!

Given your propensity for finding old hand tools, I'm sure you will run into one or more eventually. They are odd looking, because they're thinner in profile and have a much shorter handle than the typical SOE engineers wrench, yet have these large gaping jaws (3/4" to 2-3/8"). Because it doesn't take much to turn a packing gland nut. They show up from time to time here. Williams made them. I know that @snapmom has an eyepoppingly complete or near-complete Blue-Point set. I had half of a mind to make you test your new Search function skills, but for a quick visual, a couple Bonney I have found linked here.

 

[nz44tool]

Given your propensity for finding old hand tools, I'm sure you will run into one or more eventually. They are odd looking, because they're thinner in profile and have a much shorter handle than the typical SOE engineers wrench, yet have these large gaping jaws (3/4" to 2-3/8"). Because it doesn't take much to turn a packing gland nut. They show up from time to time here. Williams made them. I know that @snapmom has an eyepoppingly complete or near-complete Blue-Point set. I had half of a mind to make you test your new Search function skills, but for a quick visual, a couple Bonney I have found linked here.

Thanks - now I realize I've seen wrenches like that, usually Williams. Never acquired any, though - they didn't appeal to me enough.

 

[d42jeep]

I looked through my long C Craftsman Vanadium pliers to check but I don’t have any water pump pliers.
-Don

 

[nz44tool]

I looked through my long C Craftsman Vanadium pliers to check but I don’t have any water pump pliers.
-Don

Fine collection!

 

[Smokeshow69]

Did someone say a collection of Long C pliers?

 

[Smokeshow69]

Ive added to the Long C plier collection today thanks to my wife for Christmas! No water pump pliers yet for me but I know I'll find some eventually