Craftsman Vs. The World

[Ryan]

Three of us were wrenching away in my shop last week as my model-a needed a new ******. While doing so, the topic of hand tools came up. I have a Snap-On socket an...<P><P><a href="http://www.garagejournal.com/?p=81">To read the rest of this blog entry from The Jockey Journal, click here.</a>

 

[philw]

This should be a popcorn munching thread.............
Notice your friend mentioned the word "feels". If your working all day turning wrenches you want the tools you are most comfortable with. You may be comfortable with standard craftsman or it may be Snap-on, it just depends on the individual. I think if you took a poll of professional mechanics it would lean heavily toward the tool truck brands.

 

[Kevin54]

Back a few years ago Craftsman was a reputable name and had a quality tool. But Craftsman is Sears and like with any major store that carries multiple merchandise, the bottom line is to keep stockholders happy. And to do that is to make money. And one of the easiest ways to make money is to cut quality. The first thing that comes to mind with Craftsman tools is the ratchets. Total junk. I have not run into one person that has Craftsman ratchets that has not had to take one or all of them back to Sears because the gearing will slip. Then they do not give you a new one anymore. They reach into a box and hand you a supposingly rebuilt one. Chances are it is one that was turned in by someone else. I have cheap B&D's that are way better than Craftsman. But there are way more people that own Craftsman tool sets than any other. This is mostly due to the pricing and packaging of complete tool sets. They are what the average person can afford, and for a weekend wrencher is adequate. But for a professional that turns wrenches everday, you don't want to be taking something back every week or two because it broke, bent, or rusted. With Mac and Snap-On, the lifetime unconditional warranty is just that. Anything at all wrong and it is replaced, no questions asked and no hassle. My nephews are diesel mechanics and all they will use is Mac or Snap-On. They have tools older than they are and the tools still look good, have not wore to the point of not being able to use them, but if they crack a socket, bust a handle in a hammer, etc. they will have it replaced the next week. They have found screwdrivers, wrenches, and god knows whatever else that people have lost, left in frames, left under hoods, and are totally worse for wear but they will trade them in for a new one and have not been questioned once. If wrenching is your livelyhood you have to invest in the best. There is just no comparison between Mac, Snap-On vs. Craftsman. The same goes for toolboxes. You pay way more for a M or S-O but you can figure you will have it for life or trade up. And the value does not drop much over the years. That won't happen with Craftsman.

 

[ColdDuckTime]

It seems to me that a person should either own Harbor Freight tools (how much is a wrench set? 10 bucks?) or professional quality, name brand stuff. If nothing else, the resale market is excellent for some of these brands. You never know when you'll need to raise some rent money.

 

[wrenchr]

The trick is to find the High Quality tool's @ a discount, Ebay / Fleamarket's.
Don't get me wrong I do Finance off of Mac tool's, but it is not in my budget to buy everything new. Hunting for deal's is most of the fun, for me.

 

[Mook62]

My son is a professional mechanic and deals with the tool truck on a weekly basis. Feel does have alot to do with it.

We had a very good conversation about it. His main point for buying off the truck and having to pay a little extra is for the level of support that he expects and receives. Matt told me that all he has to do is pick up the phone and lets Don know that he needs a "whatever" and i fit's on the truck he gets it. If not, Don also has some loaners that he supplies until your ordered items arrive.

So, if the tools are the same, then the price of support and convienence is what part of the premium goes for. In that light, I have to agree.

 

[SteveL]

It seems to me that a person should either own Harbor Freight tools (how much is a wrench set? 10 bucks?) or professional quality, name brand stuff. If nothing else, the resale market is excellent for some of these brands. You never know when you'll need to raise some rent money.

Not sure I completly agree. In situations where I will need a specialty tool for one project, HF is the perfect choice. As I don't use my tools every day or for a living, Snap On, etc. does not make sense either when a Crafstman, Pittsburg, Husky, etc. will do just fine. Yea, I try to buy as good a quality as I can while keeping in mind the use that it will get.

I recently bought a gear/wheel puller, bearing separator set from HF on sale for $29. Did everything I needed and then some. Why would I be any better off with a $200 set from Snap On? I now have $170 left over to put toward car parts, golf, dinner, whatever. As I never plan on selling it, resale value has little meaning.

Oh, and if I ever get to the point where I have to sell some tools to pay for the rent, I have a lot bigger problem on my hands than the brand of tools that I bought. I've accumulated tools over the past 30 years and I would guess that the whole lot would'nt bring morre than $10 to 20k, power tools included. I don't know about you, but $10k would not last long if I had to live off it. Your mileage may vary.

 

[hell_fish_65]

It does depend. A friend of mine always used Snap-on until his ratchet started slipping and he turned it in. Snap-On rebuilt it and billed him. It was the last Snap-On ratchet. Craftsman don't offer rebuilts any longer, not here.

 

[ColdDuckTime]

Not sure I completly agree. In situations where I will need a specialty tool for one project, HF is the perfect choice. As I don't use my tools every day or for a living, Snap On, etc. does not make sense either when a Crafstman, Pittsburg, Husky, etc. will do just fine. Yea, I try to buy as good a quality as I can while keeping in mind the use that it will get.

I recently bought a gear/wheel puller, bearing separator set from HF on sale for $29. Did everything I needed and then some. Why would I be any better off with a $200 set from Snap On? I now have $170 left over to put toward car parts, golf, dinner, whatever. As I never plan on selling it, resale value has little meaning.

Oh, and if I ever get to the point where I have to sell some tools to pay for the rent, I have a lot bigger problem on my hands than the brand of tools that I bought. I've accumulated tools over the past 30 years and I would guess that the whole lot would'nt bring morre than $10 to 20k, power tools included. I don't know about you, but $10k would not last long if I had to live off it. Your mileage may vary.

I hear what you are saying...I guess what I am getting at is that the in-between levels (which is mostly what I own, go figure) seem kind of odd to me. Every time I pay 50 bucks to buy a Craftsman thing, I kind of view it as 50 towards a Snap On or German tool.

In terms of money, I expect for a lot of us (ironically, the non-mechanics), we could afford to buy a fully blown Snap On setup just because. Heck, a decent Steinway would cost more than I think I could even spend on a tool truck. I suspect that if a person could afford $2k worth of Craftsman, they usually can afford $5k worth of Snap On, and it isn't like you're going to wear the stuff out in your lifetime.

It seems to me that for hobbyists with some means, it all boils down to a question of esthetics. Funny thing, really.

 

[wrenchr]

It does depend. A friend of mine always used Snap-on until his ratchet started slipping and he turned it in. Snap-On rebuilt it and billed him. It was the last Snap-On ratchet. Craftsman don't offer rebuilts any longer, not here.

That is when your friend should have contacted Snap on with the dealer's name. They would have reamed that dealer. Then he would have went back and got a refund.

 

[punkabilly136]

i know quite a few "pro" mechanics and they use alot of craftsman!! just the other day i went with my friend who returned a couple of things to sears...i don't know about this "rebuilt" replacement but when i was with him the guy behind the counter took the broken tool and went to the aisle where it was was and grabbed a brand new one off of the shelf...also the way i look at it why spend 480$ on one wrench when that can get you a whole lot more with craftsman and still have the lifetime warranty and free replacement, and that also leaves money for the project. I wonder how much a MAC tool would be if they didn't have to pay for the endorsement of very well known people?

 

[OldCarGuy]

If any professional feels the need to purchase Snap-On, regardless of the price, more power to them. Remember he is making a living at wrenching and uses his tools daily as an extension of his hands. Therefore he deserves the best, even if it may only be a figure of his imagination that Snap-On‘s are far superior than Craftsman. Thusly I would never debate what’s best for the professional.

However my person tool of choice is Craftsman. I have a long love affair with Craftsman that started some 50 years ago. And have accumulated more hand tools than most professionals in that span. Hence I have become accustomed to their feel in my hands. My tools receive far more use than most home users as I use them for car restorations, machinery repair, home and auto repairs. And they have always served me well.

On the other hand, I would be hard pressed to purchase any inferior quality imported tools even for an occasional use. Their use cause far more frustration that the cost savings of Craftsman quality or better tools.

 

[84TurboBuick]

For years I was a die-hard Craftsman man through and through. However, for the last 2 years I have been buying Snap-on tools to replace most of my Craftsman stuff.

The reason I guess would be that like most, I have noticed the quality of Craftsman has dropped to the point that I no longer have the confidence that my Craftsman stuff will get the job done. I cringe when I have to really put some serious torque on something...I just hope that the wrench, socket...etc will not slip and damage me or the car I'm working on. When using my S-O stuff that worry is not there, I know I payed a premium for my tools but I know that they perform everytime I grab one. I now find that my projects get done faster and have a better quality to them now that I have mostly S-O tools...for me at least that is worth the price I paid.

 

[wrenchr]

For years I was a die-hard Craftsman man through and through. However, for the last 2 years I have been buying Snap-on tools to replace most of my Craftsman stuff.

The reason I guess would be that like most, I have noticed the quality of Craftsman has dropped to the point that I no longer have the confidence that my Craftsman stuff will get the job done. I cringe when I have to really put some serious torque on something...I just hope that the wrench, socket...etc will not slip and damage me or the car I'm working on. When using my S-O stuff that worry is not there, I know I payed a premium for my tools but I know that they perform everytime I grab one. I now find that my projects get done faster and have a better quality to them now that I have mostly S-O tools...for me at least that is worth the price I paid.

Well Said

 

[SteveV]

I don't think any reasonable person would try to make an argument that Snap-on tools aren't better than Craftsman. They are certainly better, but my issue with Snap-On is on average, I think they make a 15% better tool than say a Craftsman Professional/Husky/Kobalt, and yet that they charge 300-400% more.

I've been a mechanic for a long time, and I have many friends who are big-shot "master mechanics" who also think Snap-On is a huge rip-off, but would love their tools if they were more reasonable. I have a wide range of tools, including a lot of Snap-on, and I don't feel the price is anywhere near appropriate for the tool.

I also love how people rave about how Snap-On has great support compare to Craftsman. The only reason Snap-On comes to your shop is to sell more tools and collect debts, not to replace your tool. It's not like you place a call and the Snap-On man comes speeding into your shop in 30 minutes to give you a replacement.

Another urban legend that seems to float around is that somehow if you use Craftsman tools all of your fasteners are going to be rounded off, or you may get seriously injured because the tools are ticking time bombs. They has to be the biggest load of ****, most of the time it's an idiot mechanic doing something stupid when these type of "accidents" happen.

Snap-On is the Harley Davidson of the tool business. No matter what they make, people will say it's the best and pay several times over what it's actually worth. It's not very hard to dupe dumb mechanics into going into serious debt to pay for them.

 

[wrenchr]

Why just knock Snap on? Matco, Mac, Cornwell, SK, Proto. All charge an outragous amount, Snap On get's a unfair wrap for overcharging, I do not here anyone bitching about the other companies price's.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

sounds like an outlaw snap on dealer

 

[brianpgriset]

I would say you should buy tools based on two simple yet important things:

- what you like to buy
- what your budget will allow

So far for me that has meant all Craftsman in my box. I have just started buying and reasearching some mid/upper grade tools (SK etc) to make a second set. I certainly don't need it. My craftsman stuff has performed great thus far, but sometimes it is nice to have a good "feeling" ratchet, screwdriver, etc...

Second, I would say that as long as you use a resonable quality tool for its designed purpose only, a very small percentage of your tools will ever fail. I am willing to bet, and have been witness to people who are suprised and upset when their craftsman wrench bends when they were using it with a 2 foot cheater pipe.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

Snap-On is the Harley Davidson of the tool business. No matter what they make, people will say it's the best and pay several times over what it's actually worth. It's not very hard to dupe dumb mechanics into going into serious debt to pay for them.

what is the alternative to harley davidson ? imported harley davidson ripoffs

 

[wrenchr]

sounds like an outlaw snap on dealer

Not at all, just sick of people complaining of the high price's of s/o like they are the only tool company that charges huge amount's of money.
For instance. Matco 3/8 locking flex head comfort grip, list is like $130.00
Snap On, same feature's as Matco $110.00.

 

[wrenchr]

Not at all, just sick of people complaining of the high price's of s/o like they are the only tool company that charges huge amount's of money.
For instance. Matco 3/8 locking flex head comfort grip, list is like $130.00
Snap On, same feature's as Matco $110.00.

The only difference is the matco is 60 tooth compared to S/O's 36 tooth.
And the matco is 140.00

 

[SteveV]

what is the alternative to harley davidson ? imported harley davidson ripoffs

I would argue the Japanese build a better motorcycle for far less money than Harley does. Harley will always have the "mystique" of an American legend, and is definitely a good bike, but a comparable Honda or Yamaha will deliver similar performance, and much better reliability at half the price.

Besides, Harley's image is that of a yuppie bike anyway because only white-collar professionals can afford new ones. Harley used to be a blue-collar bike, now most true motorcycle enthusiasts who just enjoy riding and not having a status symbol drive other makes.

I just laugh when I see some poser riding on a Harley thinking he's some bad-***.

 

[wrenchr]

I would argue the Japanese build a better motorcycle for far less money than Harley does. Harley will always have the "mystique" of an American legend, and is definitely a good bike, but a comparable Honda or Yamaha will deliver similar performance, and much better reliability at half the price.

Besides, Harley's image is that of a yuppie bike anyway because only white-collar professionals can afford new ones. Harley used to be a blue-collar bike, now most true motorcycle enthusiasts who just enjoy riding and not having a status symbol drive other makes.

I just laugh when I see some poser riding on a Harley thinking he's some bad-***.

Nothing is worse then the guy with the harley boot's / leather vest / bandana / harley clothe's, that does not even own a bike, or a honda for that matter.

 

[eschoendorff]

Wow.... are we having this discussion again?????

 

[brandonvalentine]

I'm a semi-professional wrench -- that is I've earned my living in the past turning a wrench but I'm not a certified mechanic and have never tried to become one. I've always been a Craftsman guy and I think for a very good reason: fast tool replacement. My argument for Craftsmen is this: I cannot afford to own duplicates of every tool I own. I am not a rich man, and I must spend as little as possible on my tools but I also must buy tools that will last, because I can't afford to spend the money twice. If I am working and a tool breaks, I will need to replace it immediately so I can continue working. I have multiple ratchets, but I generally have one deep and one shallow socket in each size, and speciality tools I especially have just one of. When a Craftsmen tool breaks I know that as long as it's not after business hours, I can drive straight to Sears and get it replaced. With Snap-On, Mac, etc, my tool gets replaced the next time I track down the Snap-On guy or as long as the postal service takes. What that would mean for me in reality is that if I had to have the tool to keep working, I'd end up going to Sears or the nearest tool store and buying another one anyway. What good is the warranty then?

I've worn out more than my share of Craftsmen ratchets, and rounded out more than my share of sockets. I've bent tools, even sheared a solid breaker bar straight in half before. I know how to use a tool properly, but I also know that sometimes, as a last resort, the only way to accomplish some specific task is to use the tool improperly, to put a giant cheater pipe on it, to beat on it with a sledge. When I have no choice but to do that, at least I know it's gonna be okay if I break the tool because I'll have a replacement in hand in an hour.

Quality is important to me, but replacing something immediately? Equally important.

 

[boiler7904]

The way I see it, there are a few schools of thought on the subject:

1. I'll buy whatever tool works the best for the most situations.

2. I'll buy whatever tool is the cheapest.

3. I'll use Snap-On / Matco / Mac, etc. for my everyday wrenches but keep a couple of Craftsman or off brand Chiwanese tools around as backups or in the car / truck for emergency / trips to the junkyard.

4. I'll only use Craftsman. No amount of advertising, harassment, or naysaying will convince me to spend more money to buy tools off of the truck.

5. I'll only use Snap-On / Matco / Mac, etc. I'll give them up when you pry them out of my cold dead hands.

None if these theories is wrong. No amount of Craftsman vs. the world threads on the net or discussions in person will change the mind of someone who is dead set in their ways.

Personally, I'd love to have all truck brand tools but it isn't realistic for the use that my mechanics tools get. Buying Craftsman gives me the most bang for the buck. I'll add a few Snap-On or Matco pieces over time for the stuff that gets used the most.

 

[ovilla]

I use all craftsman myself simply because it's the best quality stuff that I have access to locally. I am not a professional mechanic so I do not have access to a Snap On or MAC truck. For those of you that are weekend warrior types, where do you go to buy this stuff (just onlne)? Seriously, I'd like to take a look at what any of these truck vendors have but have no clue how to even get a hold of one of them. I also don't want to order anything online. Being able to view and hold a tool before purchase really does help in evaluating it thoroughly before laying down hard earned cash. Thanks

 

[fasteddie24]

One of my best friends is a Matco rep. Nicest tools around. Also, out of my budget. Craftsman offers the best bang for the buck in my world.

 

[Thumper]

I guess I'll go ahead and add my take in this. As a retired mechanic of 35 years ( got my first job at 14 twisting wrenches) I can say that I've used about every brand out there. I started with a mix of Craftsman, Mustang, Wizard with a few Proto tossed in the mixed. During the first few years all I bought were Craftsman because they were good quality and very affordable. Then I went to work at a big shop that had a Snap-On truck come by and I was like a kid in a candy store but my *** stung because of the prices. In 1970 I bought my first full set of Snap-On screwdrivers for the **** rippin price of $25.00....outrageous compared to Craftsman at the time, but the thing is....I still got them all and they haven't let me down yet. I've got my share of Mac, Matco, Proto, Cornwell, Snap-On and Craftsman and they all have served me well over the years so I guess its a matter of what you can afford....what you like....and how much you use them. Some specialty stuff is only available off the tool trucks and I'm not counting that stuff...only your basic tools. Yes they all have a different feel to each brand but you have to decide which brand best suits your needs. I guess there is no real right answer to this question as long as you have a quality tool that doesn't put you in the poor house and gets the job done with no damage to you or what your working on......

 

[wilbilt]

Wow.... are we having this discussion again?????

Apparently yes. I'm staying out of it.

I will say that the midlife-crisis posers on Harleys crack me up, too.

 

[philw]

Thumper....or anyone else who may know..
Where were the Mustang tools sold.....I know they were made by New Britain but who carried them....Napa? Other parts stores?

 

[Thumper]

Thats a good question....I think my Dad ordered them out of a catalog. He's been gone for 15 years now so I guess I'll never know. But I still have them and they still "Git-R-Done !! " thanks Dad, evertime I pick one up I think of him working on that 49 Plymouth he loved so much.

 

[ColdDuckTime]

Apparently yes. I'm staying out of it.

I will say that the midlife-crisis posers on Harleys crack me up, too.

I'm afraid they're the same guys that are bidding muscle car prices up to the moon. It makes me crazy.

 

[Vicegrip]

I think how you use your tools matters as well. I must be lucky as I don't seem to kill tools like some folks do. I am a wrench in a dealership but don't work on the cars at work. I use tools all day long every day and feel more at home with a machine 1/2 apart than sitting in a recliner with a beer. Tools are like cars. You can get to the food store in a Kia or a Bentley. The Bentley is a very well made car and does not suffer any stigma of low cost. The Kia is 1/20th the cost of of the Bentley, works but perhaps not as long. Use, use well and replace as needed.
Think about it cheap import or top of the line cars. Tools to the mechanically inclined are like cars. Most people own somewhere in between. How they are made, how you treat them and what you use them for has a lot to do with how long they work and how well they do the task.

I see the new mechanics getting social pressure to hit the trucks and there is one upsmanship in shops. Bigger and bigger tool boxes and "look what the tool or set I just got"

I like what works well for the money. Must be a Ford, Dodge or Chevy guy after all.

BTW it is not just US muscle cars getting nutty $ some of the older sports cars are getting out of reach too. Parts have gone from enthusiasts buying and selling to each other as needed to Ebay market commodities being traded at ever higher prices. Many people seem to be less likely to use them for anything other than making a buck.

I have a mix of brands like most long time wrenches. The go to stuff is good and time tested but I am not wedded to a brand nor do I care what the guy next to me thinks of my socket wrench.

 

[Rte66Charlie]

I've used Craftsman for years. I LIKE my Craftsman tools. I've never had any problem out of Sears the few times I have returned broken/bent/used up items and was always given a brand new replacement, no questions asked. I think a lot of it has to do with the guy manning the sales counter at your particular store.

I also have several Snap-On tools, pry bars, pick sets, and a KRA4813D roll cabinet. While the cabinet was pretty pricey, and Craftsman makes some good "professional" style tool storage now with roller bearing drawers, etc, etc, I've always liked the Snap-On cabinets and that is what I wanted.

With the wide range of people on this site - from pros to average Joes - this truly is one of those "no right answer" questions. What you like, what you want, what you can afford all play a role in tool choice.

And yes, I'm 50 and I ride a Harley, among other bikes, but it is no mid-life crisis b/s - I've been riding for 39 years. My Harley is no different than my Craftsman/Snap-On choices - happens to be ONE of my tools of choice right now.

But you're right, there ARE posers out there......

 

[malibu101]

For years I was a die-hard Craftsman man through and through. However, for the last 2 years I have been buying Snap-on tools to replace most of my Craftsman stuff.

The reason I guess would be that like most, I have noticed the quality of Craftsman has dropped to the point that I no longer have the confidence that my Craftsman stuff will get the job done. I cringe when I have to really put some serious torque on something...I just hope that the wrench, socket...etc will not slip and damage me or the car I'm working on. When using my S-O stuff that worry is not there, I know I payed a premium for my tools but I know that they perform everytime I grab one. I now find that my projects get done faster and have a better quality to them now that I have mostly S-O tools...for me at least that is worth the price I paid.

The above quote-second paragraph-first sentence is my question.
You have noticed the quality of late-model Craftsman has dropped as compared to their "older" tools, I think most people will agree.
You are replacing your Craftsman tools because of this?? You are no longer confident that your older (better quality) Craftsman tools can do their job because their newer siblings are of lesser quality?? How are the two connected?? Have you been replacing Craftsman with Craftsman every two years??

 

[AdamMopar]

I like my Craftsman tools. I've used a lot of them at work and exclusively at home. I won't likely be buying anymore of their ratchets however.

The gears in my 1/2" ratchet recently stripped out and I sent it to Sears with someone else to have them get a different one. I told them if they didn't give them a new one off the shelf that don't turn it in just get me a rebuild kit.

Sure enough the store tries to give them a rebuilt one and fourtunately they listened and got me the rebuild kit instead.

Adam

 

[hell_fish_65]

My local Sears doesn't even have the rebuild kits. i did ask.

For the non-pros that want Snap-on, Mac etc.. try ebay or craigslist. I got a lot of snap-on this way. Rachets for about $40, wrench sets for $40, socket sets for $10. A little foot work goes a long way.

I do like snap-ons screw drivers more than the craftsman or husky, but I perfer the craftsman sockets, because of a bad habit of losing them from time to time.

 

[84TurboBuick]

The above quote-second paragraph-first sentence is my question.
You have noticed the quality of late-model Craftsman has dropped as compared to their "older" tools, I think most people will agree.
You are replacing your Craftsman tools because of this?? You are no longer confident that your older (better quality) Craftsman tools can do their job because their newer siblings are of lesser quality?? How are the two connected?? Have you been replacing Craftsman with Craftsman every two years??

Good question....I should have went on a bit but I tried to make it short.

I still use the tools that I bought 20 years ago, I did and still do believe in the quality of them. However, I am replacing the newer stuff I own just because I have had too many problems with them. I just cannot justify using a tool that I know to be woefully inferior just because there is a Sears store down the road.

Is that 25$ S-O wrench that much better than my 6$ Craftsman? It is if it means that when I use it I don't have to worry about it slipping off and damaging a body panel that costs hundreds to replace or fix.

So in answer to your question, yes I am replacing all my tools due to this fact. I guess to be fair the price does bother me from time to time, and no I do not own every S-O tool they make, but in the end I see no reason to continue to buy or trade in my old Craftsman stuff just to get a tool that is not even close to what I feel it should be.

 

[wrenchr]

Good question....I should have went on a bit but I tried to make it short.

I still use the tools that I bought 20 years ago, I did and still do believe in the quality of them. However, I am replacing the newer stuff I own just because I have had too many problems with them. I just cannot justify using a tool that I know to be woefully inferior just because there is a Sears store down the road.

Is that 25$ S-O wrench that much better than my 6$ Craftsman? It is if it means that when I use it I don't have to worry about it slipping off and damaging a body panel that costs hundreds to replace or fix.

So in answer to your question, yes I am replacing all my tools due to this fact. I guess to be fair the price does bother me from time to time, and no I do not own every S-O tool they make, but in the end I see no reason to continue to buy or trade in my old Craftsman stuff just to get a tool that is not even close to what I feel it should be.

Bleeding knuckle's means you have been using a Craftsman Ratchet!!