Creative method to repair a rod end in a steering ram?

[RedBKM]

Let me start by saying this is on a farm tractor and not a school bus. A functioning repair is all that is required.

The steering ram end has about 3/4" of play and the seal is completely gone. It is not threaded on and replacement requires a cylinder rebuild and a new piston with rod end attached. Parts alone are nearly $400!

Is there an easier way to fix this? My cylinder is in good shape and I'm thinking I can weld on a new rod end and go. Has anyone tried this? Is there a place that sells a universal weld-on rod end?

 

[A_Pmech]

I would drill, tap and thread it for a stock threaded rod end if possible.

 

[zkling]

I would drill, tap and thread it for a stock threaded rod end if possible.

This, or weld on a threaded coupling that could then accept a common rod end. Depending on what tools you have available. I've done the 2nd before. Never what AP mentioned, but that would work no doubt.

 

[deter]

are you sure thats not threaded on? looks like it to me. what model tractor is this on?

 

[rsanter]

Cut that old thing off and weld on a coupling nut.
Then thread in a heim joint and attach with a bolt to the arm

Bob

 

[Mike Miller]

Look to see if the socket will press out of the ram's eye.

 

[Barlow L]

I'm in the same boat with a Massey Ferguson tractor. The power steering cylinder has the tie rod made to the shaft and the ball has popped out.

My thoughts are to take the tie rod to the parts store and find one with the same or close taper. I'd like to find one with female threads that I can bore out to slip over the shaft then weld.

 

[Bigplum]

maybe chop it off , bore and tap it to suit a new end ? , still have to dismantle the ram to do a nice job , given the harsh enviroment farm stuff lives in, that would be the best option , a quick bodge would be just whack it off and weld another one in,

some joints are rebuildable though ( I've seen the kits for Land Rovers )

 

[kerrynzl]

I'm in the same boat with a Massey Ferguson tractor. The power steering cylinder has the tie rod made to the shaft and the ball has popped out.

My thoughts are to take the tie rod to the parts store and find one with the same or close taper. I'd like to find one with female threads that I can bore out to slip over the shaft then weld.

Most Jap Rack and Pinions have female tie-rod ends. Just cut and Thread the Rod.
If the Taper angle is an orphan, get an insert adapter made in a lathe.
[try speedway motors, this is a dirt track type mod ]

 

[RedBKM]

are you sure thats not threaded on? looks like it to me. what model tractor is this on?

I thought it looked threaded because I dont see a weld joint. I guess it could be pressed on. The manufacturer (Same/Duetz) only sells the complete piston with rod end attached. If they put a grease fitting in the side I wouldn't be doing this!

If I weld a nut on will I lose travel in one direction? I will have to cycle the steering and see if it bottoms out as is.

I like the idea of drilling and tapping the piston but that would require a total tear down and rebuild (plus the kit).

 

[rsanter]

Do you have a lathe? Or access to one?
How long is the rod?
If the rod is long enough you could extend it and run it through the headstock of the lathe.
Then you don't have to take the cylinder apart, just off the tractor

You could also drill/ bore out the exsisting end and press in a roller bearing or a spherical rod end then just run a bolt through it and through the arm

Bob

 

[RedBKM]

I'm in the same boat with a Massey Ferguson tractor. The power steering cylinder has the tie rod made to the shaft and the ball has popped out.

My thoughts are to take the tie rod to the parts store and find one with the same or close taper. I'd like to find one with female threads that I can bore out to slip over the shaft then weld.

I found this one for a Mustang II. Do you think I could cut it back and have it professionally welded?

Do you guys think it will hold up on a tractor? It is about 50hp and 4WD.

 

[Twisted Sid]

Try heating up the ball joint end with a torch and spinning it off. You will probably need pliers or visegrip to keep the shaft from spinning but they will have to be something with some kind of soft jaws so you dont gouge or knick the shaft.
A lot of off road shocks are like this and you need heat to remove the shaft ends if they are damaged.

 

[kerrynzl]

I found this one for a Mustang II. Do you think I could cut it back and have it professionally welded?

Do you guys think it will hold up on a tractor? It is about 50hp and 4WD.

Why don't you cut the old one off close to the ball joint and use a die to thread and screw the mustang unit on. [no welding needed]

 

[ez-duzit]

Drilling and tapping would seriously weaken the piston.

It appears that the original piston and end are forged in one piece and then the piston portion machined and ground.

 

[srmofo]

Threading a shaft like that is going to ****. I'd suggest McMaster Carr. Cut the old off, weld the new on.

They are listed under rod ends, pick your hole size, material, and 3 days later its on your porch

 

[kerrynzl]

Threading a shaft like that is going to ****.

They've been doing this on racecars "ever since the wheel was invented"
The whole point of threading it is to make it serviceable [which is the problem right now]

Even a Bird-**** weld would probably hold up, but if it is a hack job then just leave it alone.

one last thing
If the tie-rod is under compression instead of tension, the head from welding would anneal the tie-rod increasing the chances of failure.
This usually fails beside the weld and not the weld itself [ which pumps the ego of the welder who doesn't realise he actually caused the failure ]

 

[dtt454]

the rod end might be spin welded to the rod, that is the most modern method equipment manufacturers use to attach rods to eyes on hyd cylinders.

 

[A_Pmech]

If you can't find a solution and you're willing to disassemble the cylinder, I can make a new threaded cylinder rod to fit whatever rod end you'd like to use.

 

[RedBKM]

Drilling and tapping would seriously weaken the piston.

It appears that the original piston and end are forged in one piece and then the piston portion machined and ground.

Affirmative. The manufacturer told me they were one piece. Seems like a great idea until it wears out.

I think the bore and tap idea is great but I would have to tear down the cylinder to get the piston in a lathe. Major money and down time...

Thanks for the tips. I will post some pics when done; looks like after hay season.

 

[RedBKM]

Threading a shaft like that is going to ****. I'd suggest McMaster Carr. Cut the old off, weld the new on.

They are listed under rod ends, pick your hole size, material, and 3 days later its on your porch

Yep they actually have one that measures up. I've never shopped their website before and now I've got 15 items in my cart. Thanks for the tip.

 

[ng8264723]

What about adding a spherical bearing to the existing tie rod end. Can you take the ram out easily? Just bore out the hole and add a bearing? You can then have a small piece of rod made to fit into the bearing and bolt down into the spindle. It would save tear down of the ram and the machining should be cheap. The bearing will probably last forever

 

[srmofo]

They've been doing this on racecars "ever since the wheel was invented"
The whole point of threading it is to make it serviceable [which is the problem right now]

]

This isnt a race car. Its a hydraulic cylinder shaft, meaning its going to be case hardened. Its not impossible to tap, but it will require some finesse and in all likely hood will require removal from the tractor. Like I said, a PITA.

Farm guys love to do it the quickest cheapest easiest way. Worry about tomorrow when tomorrow comes mentality. And with a weld on unit available from McMaster, it wont be a hack job. The hole will be the proper diameter with a snug fit (not threads).

 

[kerrynzl]

This isnt a race car. Its a hydraulic cylinder shaft, meaning its going to be case hardened. Its not impossible to tap, but it will require some finesse and in all likely hood will require removal from the tractor. Like I said, a PITA.

Farm guys love to do it the quickest cheapest easiest way. Worry about tomorrow when tomorrow comes mentality. And with a weld on unit available from McMaster, it wont be a hack job. The hole will be the proper diameter with a snug fit (not threads).

I realize that, I was just pointing out how common this modification is ,especially when SWAPPING SPINDLES [ and it is also exposed to a more dangerous and extreme load situation than a tractor ]

I cant understand why people want to suggest doing it the "Fuckwit Way" when the only tools required is a Hacksaw [or cut-off blade in a grinder], a Thread Die set , and a pair of soft jaws to hold the shaft in a Vice.

If the OP wants a hack job and is too lazy to pull the whole ram from the tractor he cold simply weld it around the base and pump the taper full of grease and "back off" the castle nut a few turns

 

[Prototyper]

Yep they actually have one that measures up. I've never shopped their website before and now I've got 15 items in my cart. Thanks for the tip.

Ahh yes, welcome to the wonderful world of McMaster Carr! Hands down, the best supplier with the absolute best website on earth...period!

Also, I have welded a grade 8 screw to the end of a cylinder rod, then threaded a rod end onto it. This was 15 years ago, steering cylinder on an off road vehicle I built. Still going strong today.


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[NASTYZEN]

^^^^^^^^^^
Best of both worlds right there.
Lop it off and weld a bolt to it and the next time it fails, just screw a new one on.
Quick n dirty and efficient.