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Critique My Welds?

ddawg16

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Was working on one of the main beams for the 2-story addition to my house....this one beam is 6"x10"x12' long...3/8" HSS....I have to weld some Simpson end caps on it as well as fabricate some custom hangers....

IMG00717.jpg



Welding has not been one of my stonger 'talents'.....

How do these look?

IMG00718.jpg


IMG00719.jpg
 
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1948

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not bad, you did chamfer the edges before you welded them correct? on the angle the heat looks a little low, or you had the wire speed to high for the heat you had it set on. see how its coming to a peak in the middle. you want it to lay at a nice 45 to the material. but anyway, it looks like it will hold just fine. it also looks like you went in a straight line, which for mig isnt that big of a deal, but you could have done little circles or zig zag to give it more weld area and strength.
 
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kv501

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The first one looks ok; the second one is a little cold. Is there any way you could give us your settings and the specs on your welder? That would give a little more info to help you as far as a solution. Judging by the spatter, I assume you welded this joint horizontally (which is correct).

Anyway, back to the welds. The one in the second photo looks like you ran it a little fast. 3/8 is pretty thick stuff and you have to make sure you use enough heat and penetrate both pieces (I am assuming you have a single phase machine). Other than that I'd say you're ok; it looks you have the basics of laying a bead. Some people run weave beads on T joints like that to make their welds bigger, but you won't gain much in the the way of strength. I'd slow way down, increase the heat, and make sure you get good penetration into both pieces.
 

sberry

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This looks dandy especially for residential construction, nothing in this should be designed so critical that all would hinge on the ultimate quality of the weld.
 

NASTYZEN

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Hi John!
I thought you were gonna be done before the rains??:lol:

You have it in you, don't worry... those welds are looking good.:thumbup:You might want to champer the 3/8 tube where you have a **** joint as in your first pic. and crank up the heat a little.Grinding the scale a touch more can't hurt ether...
On a piece of scrap, once your heat setting is up.Adjust the wire feed speed while your making a bead , t'ill you hear a nice smooth sizzle.
I don't think the welders like it when you adjust the Voltage while welding but feed is no prob.

PM me or post in the fabrication section if you need some advice. There's a lot of brains over there.

Take care
Claude
 

Zeke

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1948, I doubt he was using wire. See the skid marks where he lit up on the first weld? And the pecker tracks on the 2nd?

Maybe it's the angle of the pic, but the first looks hot and concave. I think I'd make a 2nd pass. The 2nd could have used a little more motion on the rod working the toes of the weld. What rod are you using? What welder are you using? AC or DC?

With my crappy Lincoln tombstone buzzer I doubt I could have done as well w/o several test pieces.
 
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ddawg16

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Thanks for the input guys.....

The welder is a miller wire feed....I had the heat around 24 and the wire feed around 375

Yes, I did champher the edges.

On that top weld I thought I was going too slow....I was getting some real good penitration into the 1/4" plate.

On the side one, I think the pic is misleading....It is actually a lot flatter than it looks in the pic....but Claude...I think your right about the scale...I should have cleaned it up a bit more.

Question....when I was doing the inside of one of the caps, I was running the weld vertical...looked like ****....First time I went from the bottom up and I ended up with globs.....the material was melting and flowing down. Other side I went from top to bottom...better...but not smooth....welds look much better when I do it flat.

Claude....I was really trying to beat the rains....but I'm running about 2 months behind....and loosing more ground. Have to go to Texas for 2 weeks tomorrow....but I will be in your area the 1st week in Jan....only 4 days...but I might have time to swing by and say hi....since your so close to Bell....

IMG00703-1.jpg


At least I have stairs now....

IMG00711.jpg
 

sberry

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This isn't a poster perfect but is one method, use the door charts if there is one for the settings, too hot it makes it difficult to keep up with, I think I ran it on scrap to splain the same question you had about verts. The second one is a bit smoother and more fluid. You can run simple stringers without so much weave but the heat settings get a bit more fussy.
There is a danger especially with wire going downhand of not getting fusion, the bead over runs and lays on top, not melting in to the base metal.
 

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sberry

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There is some advantage to wire, you can really heat it up and still hang in there. I think these were from a little demo I was running. With a bit of practice a guy could tidy them up a bit but the point is "how to".
 

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ddawg16

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Coulda fooled me with those arc strikes all over the place. I thought for sure that was SMAW. goes to show you what I don't know.

Most of those are not arc strikes.....scrapes from the grinder.....I drag it across the beam to slow it down when i'm done.....

Now you have an idea just how ****** the camera is in my phone....
 

sberry

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For general work it doesn't make so much difference to get the machine perfect, I would rather lose a little appearance and have it hot, also so much less tedious for the operator IMOP but even with C25 gas it can be cranked so the machine really does most of the work.
In the 3rd pic I stop in the middle, change about a volt trying to reduce spatter. I don't remember what went wrong in pic 4, if it was the machine setting or me or both. Pic one was a Hobart 210, just about all the poop it has with 030 and C25 but hot enough that makes it fluid enough to remove operator jiggles from wayyyyyyy too much coffee.
 

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38Chevy454

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I would agree with the others, looks fine for your application. Since you chamfered the 3/8 thickness, i will assume you have it hot enough and good penetration. It seems so visually, but visual is not a good indicator of penetration. Vertical up is better for penetration, but down is a whole lot easier. Horizontal is always better if you can get the parts into that position. With the thickness of the material you are dealing with, go hot as possible. The bead may be flat and not much crown, but as long as you do not have any appreciable undercut, that is much preferred to a peaked cold weld bead.
 

Zeke

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sberry, you do some nice work. I could weld almost that nice in school with the school bought welding equipment and an instructor helping me set up. What I have at home is piss poor due to lack of funds. My MIG is a tapped machine so I can't dial in like you can.

But, I will ask, don't you think dawg could weave a little more on his uphill? I guess that's 3F? I seem to remember an up facing C motion pausing at the side, crossing to a slightly higher position, pause, and repeat.

Me, if I had 3/8ths steel to weld, I'd be all over a stick machine. I love to weld stick.
 
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sberry

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I am with Stephen on this, I actually like a tap machine, so much easier to find, keep, repeat settings. I have infinite on my 255 and its a pain in the **** compared to the 175T, I have 3 settings, thin, medium and thick and on a rare day a tweak to the wire speed. I really don't weld on a regular basis, at least not critical or demanding and on verts is where a guy really notices when he loses his edge. The post above is like it should be, flat across the middle.
If it can be done with wire it is what I prefer, so much faster and cleaner.
 
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Full Size 66

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I don't have any pics but I just did my W12x14 beams for my garage. Uphill SMAW, 7018 @ 90 amps, DCEP. First time for me and it was fun. Good work to the OP!
 

Nighttrain

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ddawg those look good, but what do I know? I am just happy to run a bead of caulk that looks good.

How about a thread on your home addition build? I have seen hints of it on threads like this but why not a dedicated thread. I enjoy any type of builds and am sure others whould also. I learned a lot just on this weld one.

Where in Texas are you going to visit?
 

NASTYZEN

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How about a thread on your home addition build?

I'm sure you have time..........

Claude....I was really trying to beat the rains....but I'm running about 2 months behind....and loosing more ground. Have to go to Texas for 2 weeks tomorrow....but I will be in your area the 1st week in Jan....only 4 days...but I might have time to swing by and say hi....since your so close to Bell....

Your more than welcome ,anytime. I'll have to keep some of that Honey Brown ale on ice....Make sure you adjust your driving to the white stuff when you get here.:)

To bad you got so far behind. On the bright side though, it seldom snows where you are.
 

MoonRise

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Can't see the pics here John, cause you didn't 'upload' them to the forum but have them going/coming from an off-site image hosting place. Which doesn't get through the corp firewall here. grrr.

Anyway, to me California and welding and structural raises some questions about meeting building/fabrication codes for structural welding and seismic structural welding codes. Don't know if that applies in your case or not.

Welding 101 - you weld "metal", not rust or millscale or paint or whatnot. So clean the metal of all 'stuff' that is not clean shiny metal. No oil or grease or paint, no rust or millscale (a wire wheel typically doesn't remove most millscale, it just shines it up so you need to grind or otherwise remove the millscale first). Some welding processes can 'tolerate' a bit of 'not-metal' (SMAW or other flux processes can typically 'tolerate' the most amount of 'non-metal') and GTAW can typically have almost no 'non-metal', but for the 'best' welding results always clean your metal to clean-n-shiny metal before welding.

And unless you posted a pic (see above comment about non-forum pics not always getting through corp firewall) of your welder, just saying "Miller wire-feed welder" isn't quite enough to go on.

As Miller (and Lincoln and most other manufacturers) make wire-feed welders from little 120V machines that output about 100 'real' amps or so (recent marketing-speak has them called 130-140 amp units, but that is really-really pushing it IMNSHO) that usually do not have enough real 'snot' to weld 3/8 inch thick steel with GMAW but may have enough power to do so with multi-pass using (some) FCAW wires (check to see if the FCAW wire in question is 'rated' for the material thickness and for possible seismic/structural welding before using such wires/machines) all the way up to some big machines that can run spray-mode GMAW (not vertical, as spray-mode weld puddles are too hot and fluid for vertical welding) that could melt through 3/8 - 1/2 inch thick steel in a single pass.

Welding using short-circuit transfer mode and 0.023/0.025 wire with C25 shielding gas is NOT going to get you anywhere near enough heat/penetration into some 3/8 inch thick steel. Some 0.035 solid ER70S-6 wire and C25 in short-circuit transfer mode with a big enough machine -may- enable you to weld that 3/8 inch thick steel (typically a 200+ 'class' machine, as the 175/180-class usually top-out around 3/16 to 1/4 inch or so using solid wire and GMAW).

Zeke/Milt, yes vertical welding is position 3F (for fillet welds) or 3G (for groove welds).

Vertical-up is usually used for 'structural' thickness welds if doing vertical welds, because vertical-down makes you run downhill faster (as gravity is pulling the weld puddle down ahead of you and you have to keep the arc on the base/parent metal to fuse into that and not just pile up a big puddle of filler that then doesn't fuse/penetrate). Vertical-down is useful for welding 'thinner' materials where you are trying to limit the heat/penetration into the base/parent material.

YMMV, etc, etc, etc.
 

fergus

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Thanks ddawg for startin this thread. Thanks to everybody else for filling me in...learned something new today bout goin uphill with MIG.

ddaawg...you really in Bell? I'm from Norwalk... or Vario Norwalk, as I sometimes like to call it...or as the neighborhood cholos called their territory.
 

BeachBum2012

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Hey ddawg. Good to see you're still around. I'm just learning to weld but it looks pretty good to me. Wish I could be of more help. Garage looks great though and good luck with the house.

ddaawg...you really in Bell? I'm from Norwalk... or Vario Norwalk, as I sometimes like to call it...or as the neighborhood cholos called their territory.

I'm in Norwalk (NorWatts) too. At least for now. Finally on my way out!
 

ZRX61

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Anyway, to me California and welding and structural raises some questions about meeting building/fabrication codes for structural welding and seismic structural welding codes. Don't know if that applies in your case or not.

The LA County structure welding cert is the highest spec in the US owing to the seismic regs etc. The book alone is $600 (or it was last time I checked.. about 5 years ago)

Welding using short-circuit transfer mode and 0.023/0.025 wire with C25 shielding gas is NOT going to get you anywhere near enough heat/penetration into some 3/8 inch thick steel. Some 0.035 solid ER70S-6 wire and C25 in short-circuit transfer mode with a big enough machine -may- enable you to weld that 3/8 inch thick steel (typically a 200+ 'class' machine, as the 175/180-class usually top-out around 3/16 to 1/4 inch or so using solid wire and GMAW).
What he said.
 
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ddawg16

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How about a thread on your home addition build? I have seen hints of it on threads like this but why not a dedicated thread. I enjoy any type of builds and am sure others whould also. I learned a lot just on this weld one.

Where in Texas are you going to visit?

Thought about that....but it's not a garage.....I guess I could concentrate on the technical issues...issues that 'could' apply to a garage....

Oh, wait....my garage has been instramental in helping me build the addition....yea...that's it.

I am now on the West side of Ft Worth....LMCO to be exact. I'll be here for 2 weeks


Can't see the pics here John, cause you didn't 'upload' them to the forum but have them going/coming from an off-site image hosting place. Which doesn't get through the corp firewall here. grrr.

Anyway, to me California and welding and structural raises some questions about meeting building/fabrication codes for structural welding and seismic structural welding codes. Don't know if that applies in your case or not.

Welding 101 - you weld "metal", not rust or millscale or paint or whatnot. So clean the metal of all 'stuff' that is not clean shiny metal. No oil or grease or paint, no rust or millscale (a wire wheel typically doesn't remove most millscale, it just shines it up so you need to grind or otherwise remove the millscale first). Some welding processes can 'tolerate' a bit of 'not-metal' (SMAW or other flux processes can typically 'tolerate' the most amount of 'non-metal') and GTAW can typically have almost no 'non-metal', but for the 'best' welding results always clean your metal to clean-n-shiny metal before welding.

And unless you posted a pic (see above comment about non-forum pics not always getting through corp firewall) of your welder, just saying "Miller wire-feed welder" isn't quite enough to go on.

As Miller (and Lincoln and most other manufacturers) make wire-feed welders from little 120V machines that output about 100 'real' amps or so (recent marketing-speak has them called 130-140 amp units, but that is really-really pushing it IMNSHO) that usually do not have enough real 'snot' to weld 3/8 inch thick steel with GMAW but may have enough power to do so with multi-pass using (some) FCAW wires (check to see if the FCAW wire in question is 'rated' for the material thickness and for possible seismic/structural welding before using such wires/machines) all the way up to some big machines that can run spray-mode GMAW (not vertical, as spray-mode weld puddles are too hot and fluid for vertical welding) that could melt through 3/8 - 1/2 inch thick steel in a single pass.

Welding using short-circuit transfer mode and 0.023/0.025 wire with C25 shielding gas is NOT going to get you anywhere near enough heat/penetration into some 3/8 inch thick steel. Some 0.035 solid ER70S-6 wire and C25 in short-circuit transfer mode with a big enough machine -may- enable you to weld that 3/8 inch thick steel (typically a 200+ 'class' machine, as the 175/180-class usually top-out around 3/16 to 1/4 inch or so using solid wire and GMAW).

Zeke/Milt, yes vertical welding is position 3F (for fillet welds) or 3G (for groove welds).

Vertical-up is usually used for 'structural' thickness welds if doing vertical welds, because vertical-down makes you run downhill faster (as gravity is pulling the weld puddle down ahead of you and you have to keep the arc on the base/parent metal to fuse into that and not just pile up a big puddle of filler that then doesn't fuse/penetrate). Vertical-down is useful for welding 'thinner' materials where you are trying to limit the heat/penetration into the base/parent material.

YMMV, etc, etc, etc.

Thanks for the input....The Miller runs off 480...big unit....plenty of umph...

On the parts that did get welded....they were cleaned up with a grinder....some of the pieces are real clean....no rust or dirt. When I go to do the rest of the welds, I'll hit it with a sanding disk...that does a good job of getting it clean.


Thanks ddawg for startin this thread. Thanks to everybody else for filling me in...learned something new today bout goin uphill with MIG.

ddaawg...you really in Bell? I'm from Norwalk... or Vario Norwalk, as I sometimes like to call it...or as the neighborhood cholos called their territory.

I live a lot closer to Torrance.....I think your confusing my comment about Bell...I was talking about Bell Helicopter in Montreal Canada.
 
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ddawg16

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Can't see the pics here John, cause you didn't 'upload' them to the forum but have them going/coming from an off-site image hosting place. Which doesn't get through the corp firewall here. grrr.

Anyway, to me California and welding and structural raises some questions about meeting building/fabrication codes for structural welding and seismic structural welding codes. Don't know if that applies in your case or not.

Forgot to respond to the above....

Pics....I could upload them to the forum but the size is limited....the phone pics are bad enough...shrink them down and you won't be able to see much at all....

As for the building/fab codes.....you are right....the welding has to be done right. I know I'm asking you guys for input...but I also have a buddy who is ASME welder and a welding inspector. But he can't look at it for a week or so.

I already had this discussion with the architect and building inspector.

The building inspector is honest in admitting that he is not qualified to inspect the welds. He is depending on the "Observation Report" from the architect to show that it is all right. Of course the building inspector will still do his walk through and make sure it's all correct.

My architect is satisified my buddy will make sure the welds are correct.

At the end of the day, I have no desire to take short cuts....the safety of my family is at stake.
 
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ddawg16

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Update....back in town....finished the welding....got a couple of tips yesterday from an expert....and added all the advice you guys gave me.....basically....MORE heat....

Is this better?

IMG-20111220-00002.jpg


And pics of the final result....

IMG-20111221-00006.jpg


IMG-20111221-00005.jpg


Love my HF trailer.....have had it about 6 months....I'm using the dog **** out of it....one of the best $350 purchaces I've made.
 

38Chevy454

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Update....back in town....finished the welding....got a couple of tips yesterday from an expert....and added all the advice you guys gave me.....basically....MORE heat....

Is this better?

IMG-20111220-00002.jpg


And pics of the final result....

IMG-20111221-00006.jpg

Those look good visually and I am sure will pass inspection. I do not see any undercut and the bead shape appears slightly crowned. The narrow angle fillet is hard to see, but is also a harder weld to do since it has poor access.
 

1948

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thats not goin anywhere, that gap on that angle piece seems kindof odd tho, but then again ive never welded anything for a house before... hah
 
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