They are not going to spend $800+ of engineering time for something unique that is modified and will never happen again to get your business on something like this. This is the way it works. As soon as you say, "I want to attach some shelves to the truss", or "I want to modify...." you are cut off. And they don't care about losing your business. They are totally fine with losing your business and letting you find a company to build a custom truss and pay a PE $200+ an hour to design your unique solution. And then pay 5X more than the standard design that they produce to make one for your requirement. They are working from a catalog of established and proven designs. If you want to change that, then get out the checkbook and hire a PE.
Cutting trusses
- Thread starter JackOfDiamonds
- Start date
They are not going to spend $800+ of engineering time for something unique that is modified and will never happen again to get your business on something like this. This is the way it works. As soon as you say, "I want to attach some shelves to the truss", or "I want to modify...." you are cut off. And they don't care about losing your business. They are totally fine with losing your business and letting you find a company to build a custom truss and pay a PE $200+ an hour to design your unique solution. And then pay 5X more than the standard design that they produce to make one for your requirement. They are working from a catalog of established and proven designs. If you want to change that, then get out the checkbook and hire a PE.
Stuart in MN
Well-known member
The original post read as though this was modifications to an existing structure. If it isn't built yet, there shouldn't be any need to modify trusses, space them out approximately or double up trusses on either side of the opening.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
The question should not be "I want to modify", it is "I want to install a ladder with a rough opening of **". That's not a big deal at all and something they do all the time
Innovate1
Well-known member
Agree totally. But I want to modify IS the OPs desire. If the trusses are ordered (typically involves some sort of sign off on the quote) the company may be reluctant to cancel those and do different ones especially if they are already building them. The OP hasn't clarified the details on this. They only insisted the truss company should assist with how to cut the trusses that were ordered. I could be wrong but suspect they want to add this opening for a ladder to a truss job already in progress or perhaps complete. They may even be on the job site.
He shouldn't have to modify anything. Worst case he needs an extra truss. It doesn't not sound like the trusses are up.
Here's an example of what could be done.
The post is "cutting trusses". Regardless, even moving them involves calculations by a PE. He can move trusses however he wants. But a company is simply not going to say it's ok without a $$$$ calculation that's stamped by a PE. This is just a fact; BTDT. They are not going to open themselves up to liability by varying from what the book says. They are working from a catalog that says this design is good for this spacing. Period. You change the spacing by even one inch, you want to attach a shelf, you are on your own.
Again, he can do whatever he wants. If he wants a legal OK, he gets a PE to stamp his variance from the design approval.
WisJim
Well-known member
When we built our shop/garage a few years ago, the trusses came from Menards, and even though I live less than 25 miles from the Menards headquarters and truss plant in Eau Claire, WI, I talked to an engineer in Montana or Idaho, I think, about the specifics of my trusses. I wanted some dimensions and details that weren't real clear in their truss designer website, and I ended up with what I wanted, for no noticable difference in price from the closest stock truss they offered (gambrel roof attic truss).
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You're skipping over the discussion that has happened since post 1. The trusses are on order, so there is nothing to cut.
BurtEggley
Well-known member
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His solution is to cut one and brace around it. He has rejected solutions presented by other members here.
OP
JackOfDiamonds
Well-known member
The building is not built and hasn't even broken ground yet.
I specd storage trusses which have open spaces and specifically spec loading.
The plans call for a pull down attic ladder. I told GC I wanted a 30" ladder and he said no problem.
The GC ordered the trusses, and that's when I asked how he's planning to arrange the attic ladder. I thought the truss company would provide engineered framing plans for the ladder. Truss company provided engineering drawings and calculations, just no mention of the ladder. I personally called the truss company and they said no ladder was mentioned and there's no way to accommodate a 30" ladder with 24 OC trusses. The solution offered by the truss company was to resign the whole roof for 30 OC, but I am not familiar with that, I don't think it would work for the roof sheathing and drywall, and I told him to hold off; need to sort it out with the GC.
I see you can buy 22.5 ladders. On one hand, I could just cave in and do that, that easy and it's also a smaller hole in the ceiling, better for energy. On the other hand, a 19" wide slit isn't much to work with and may be a waste of the storage trusses.
I think scooting over one truss to make a bigger bay, and adding some additional blocking to support the drywall and sheathing on that one bay, makes sense, but I need to sort it out.
Interestingly, the Fakero LWT ladder has instructions for cutting the "ceiling joists".
I specd storage trusses which have open spaces and specifically spec loading.
The plans call for a pull down attic ladder. I told GC I wanted a 30" ladder and he said no problem.
The GC ordered the trusses, and that's when I asked how he's planning to arrange the attic ladder. I thought the truss company would provide engineered framing plans for the ladder. Truss company provided engineering drawings and calculations, just no mention of the ladder. I personally called the truss company and they said no ladder was mentioned and there's no way to accommodate a 30" ladder with 24 OC trusses. The solution offered by the truss company was to resign the whole roof for 30 OC, but I am not familiar with that, I don't think it would work for the roof sheathing and drywall, and I told him to hold off; need to sort it out with the GC.
I see you can buy 22.5 ladders. On one hand, I could just cave in and do that, that easy and it's also a smaller hole in the ceiling, better for energy. On the other hand, a 19" wide slit isn't much to work with and may be a waste of the storage trusses.
I think scooting over one truss to make a bigger bay, and adding some additional blocking to support the drywall and sheathing on that one bay, makes sense, but I need to sort it out.
Interestingly, the Fakero LWT ladder has instructions for cutting the "ceiling joists".
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And........there you go.
Truss company doesn't want to have a thing to do with you as you aren't the customer.
If you want to play GC, don't hire a GC.
BillK
Well-known member
Ceiling joists are totally different than trusses.
If you have a GC and you told him you wanted the 30" ladder I think he is the person you need to be talking to.
Adaylate
Well-known member
Ask about doubling the truss each side of the opening then you can go to a four foot stair opening and really put some stuff up there!
BurtEggley
Well-known member
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talk with the GC. You may have ask him to change truss companies. Have to wonder if there are other things he is not telling you.
rust in the eye
Well-known member
My biggest regret when building my home and shop was to allow the architect to specify roof trusses. What I know now is that this relieved him of drawing the roof framing.
While I have a scuttle above the living quarters for mechanical access the attic space is absolutely worthless.
Trusses above the shop span 35' and that engineered spiderweb makes that space likewise unusable so I didn't even build a scuttle hole. Probably a good thing as the bottom chord isn't designed to carry other loads anyway.
Engineered structures typically do the most with the least lumber so modifying such a thing seems risky business from here.
I wouldn't bother at all with trying to use a truss roof attic for storage.
While I have a scuttle above the living quarters for mechanical access the attic space is absolutely worthless.
Trusses above the shop span 35' and that engineered spiderweb makes that space likewise unusable so I didn't even build a scuttle hole. Probably a good thing as the bottom chord isn't designed to carry other loads anyway.
Engineered structures typically do the most with the least lumber so modifying such a thing seems risky business from here.
I wouldn't bother at all with trying to use a truss roof attic for storage.
Tell the GC he screwed up the order by omitting a key detail. HE needs to change the order while still on paper. If the truss company can't accommodate a simple hole in the spacing then they are just looking up canned designs and manufacturing to them.
I would think doubling up the trusses on either side of the opening would suffice. That spacing may impact rafter perlin spacing or lumber size of the perlins for the roofing material/snow load.
The company should also detail/provide the additional ceiling joists/attachments for them needed in the bay of the opening.
I would think doubling up the trusses on either side of the opening would suffice. That spacing may impact rafter perlin spacing or lumber size of the perlins for the roofing material/snow load.
The company should also detail/provide the additional ceiling joists/attachments for them needed in the bay of the opening.
I would want to review the design first before the plans were finalized for exactly that reason. Even if it meant, no good/redo the design as storage is just as important as holding up the roof/ceiling.
I had an hvac door-door salesman try to sell me 18" of blown in attic insulation. He didn't think loosing my storage space was a problem. WRONG! GOODBYE!!
rust in the eye
Well-known member
Attic storage wasn't on my mind during the planning.
The upside for me is that since I can't use the attic for storage I blew knee deep insulation up there.
Wait??? The truss manufacturer said to accommodate a single 30 inch spacing, they would HAVE to space them all at 30 inches? That's nuts. They should EASILY be able to move one truss to accommodate the spacing and up-engineer the two trusses supporting the ladder without messing with any of the other trusses. Find a different truss company. When I built my barn, I had a nice online chat with the Menard’s engineer and they had my specifics done the next day. No charge.
WisJim
Well-known member
Exactly my experience with Menards.
Word of advice to anyone building and having an attic space, put a scuttle hole/attic access panel in. Even if you store nothing up there.
That one time, when you might be the few, to have an electrical fire and burning in the attic space, you will be glad you did. You don't want the FD making the hole to access it.
Just throwing that out there. . . .
That one time, when you might be the few, to have an electrical fire and burning in the attic space, you will be glad you did. You don't want the FD making the hole to access it.
Just throwing that out there. . . .