Decisions have my project on hold

[Cheesesteak1]

Newbie here looking for help. Been having a lot of trouble moving forward with my 36X54 building and a friend go mine recommended this forum. Lots of great advise on here which I plan on utilizing. My building will be split. One 1/2 will be a finished gym & the other 1/2 garage space. On my garage side I will have a 2 tower lift and would like to wash equipment as well. What's the best method for drainage? Trench vs multi floor drains? Squeegee on flat slab vs sloped slab? This is holding up the concrete, which I would like to have done asap. Love to hear anybody with an affective set up. BTW, I'm in the midwest so frost plays in the game. Thanks

 

[rsanter]

Trench down the middle of the wash bay with floor sloped to,the trench drain

Bob

 

[larry_g]

and would like to wash equipment as well. What's the best method for drainage? Trench vs multi floor drains? Squeegee on flat slab vs sloped slab? Thanks

I don't have your answer as I would never consider adding moisture to my shop for fear of rust problems. You also refer to 'equipment' so I assume that it is more than just cars. On the farm we have to make sure to catch the washoff to prevent contamination problems. I see a river in the background so make sure you do not set yourself up for problems with pollution in the future.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Cheesesteak1]

Trench down the middle of the wash bay with floor sloped to,the trench drain

Bob

I like this idea! Thank you

I don't have your answer as I would never consider adding moisture to my shop for fear of rust problems. You also refer to 'equipment' so I assume that it is more than just cars. On the farm we have to make sure to catch the washoff to prevent contamination problems. I see a river in the background so make sure you do not set yourself up for problems with pollution in the future.

lg
no neat sig line

Would periodic cleaning cause rust? The area will be climate controlled. Cleaning cars, mowers and my boat for the most part so contaminating my lake will not be an issue.

 

[larry_g]

Would periodic cleaning cause rust? The area will be climate controlled. Cleaning cars, mowers and my boat for the most part so contaminating my lake will not be an issue.

I see posts like this
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297962 and I have the same problem. Humidity is a problem and adding to it with washing can't help anything.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[jd_1138]

Why not just install a nice water faucet outside and use a pressure washer outside? I think water inside the shop is a recipe for disaster and a waste of space. I personally wouldn't redesign my floor in some weird way just to be able to wash inside the shop.

However, if you live in a northern state, I guess having a way to wash salt off the bottom of vehicles and equipment might prolong their life. Where do you live?

 

[matt_i]

Agreed with above advice as I have an existing central floor drain which has never seen water from me. The sloping concrete drives me a bit nuts having to shim up drawer cabinets to get the slides level. I do not want any extra humidity in my shop for same reasons: rust on machines and tools. I too have a boat and I do everything involving water outdoors.

This is a premium feature, it will of course cost as such. Whether you want it is completely up to you and your budget. I would also check with local building department on what is to be done with the outflow so you can be legal.

 

[Onewolf]

As mentioned local building codes can have a serious impact on garage drain plans. Many do not allow a garage drain to drain outside nor do they allow to drain into the sewer (without expensive filtering equipment).

 

[Cheesesteak1]

I see posts like this
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297962 and I have the same problem. Humidity is a problem and adding to it with washing can't help anything.

lg
no neat sig line

I'm all about taking free wisdom but help me understand how a moister problem caused by condensation is relevant to a floor drain? BTW, what are the best ways to prevent this condensation issue? Better insulation I assume in the wall or slab? Thanks

Why not just install a nice water faucet outside and use a pressure washer outside? I think water inside the shop is a recipe for disaster and a waste of space. I personally wouldn't redesign my floor in some weird way just to be able to wash inside the shop.

However, if you live in a northern state, I guess having a way to wash salt off the bottom of vehicles and equipment might prolong their life. Where do you live?

I live in St. Louis. Winters are mild but we have stretches of -0 for several days at a time.

Agreed with above advice as I have an existing central floor drain which has never seen water from me. The sloping concrete drives me a bit nuts having to shim up drawer cabinets to get the slides level. I do not want any extra humidity in my shop for same reasons: rust on machines and tools. I too have a boat and I do everything involving water outdoors.

This is a premium feature, it will of course cost as such. Whether you want it is completely up to you and your budget. I would also check with local building department on what is to be done with the outflow so you can be legal.

You guys are making me think I don't want a drain anymore. Hope you're happy with yourselves! I just like the idea of detailing my cars and boat away from the sun and also running my boat periodically throughout the winter. If you had a redo how would you pour your slab. Thanks

 

[larry_g]

and would like to wash equipment as well. What's the best method for drainage?

I'm all about taking free wisdom but help me understand how a moister problem caused by condensation is relevant to a floor drain?

The first part of the above quote is from your original post, and that is what most of us are addressing, washing and spraying water inside of the shop. The drain is just part of the problem you have.

The condensation problem is relevant in that you have the high humidity in the shop caused by the washing process. Most of us fight keeping the humidity low in a building and you are proposing washing inside which is just the opposite of lowering humidity. If you have just turned heat the on then the temperature is rising and the humid air is getting warmer fairly fast. The heavy steel in the shop is not going to warm up so fast so the hot humid air will condense on the cold steel. Just as your shower causes the mirror to fog up in the bathroom.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ddawg16]

To further add to what Larry stated....

When you pressure wash something, you are injecting a fine mist into the air. Even in a climate controlled area, you are injecting a lot of moisture into the air. You would need to draw that air out of the building, otherwise, the relative humidity would be considerable more than your typical AC unit could handle.

As also noted....a slopped floor sufficient for wash down is going to drive you nuts to walk on. My garage has a just a slight slope....and I notice it. And when I say slight, I'm talking less than 1/2" from side to center.

As it is, with a building that large, you are already going to have issues with condensation on the ceiling. I have it with the second story of my garage and I'm in a relative low humidity area.

 

[matt_i]

If I could redo I would pour the slab level. The floor drain makes me super nervous as I feel certain if I ran it over with a forklift tire I'd be towing the forklift out of the hole with my truck and figuring out how to replace the broken grate. I don't think mine drains outside, its simply a crock that leads nowhere, as I always see a little water in the bottom of it.

The building dept issue is its an unlimited source for oil, coolant, and gasoline to all get out to the environment outside, without causing you much headache. With a level slab you're more likely to cleanup or fix the problem.

The humidity issue is exacerbated by any type of woodworking or metalworking machinery that you might ever get. There are plenty of bare metal surfaces that don't want to be rusted at any time. Dehumidifying it can be in the form of a dehumidifier or air conditioning, but those both cost money to run.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

What kind of building is the OP planning??? You cannot do a slab until the type and layout of the building is decided upon. Steel structure, pole structure, or stick built structure, or hybrid of some sort?

The building codes for my aircraft hangar required either a sloped floor (toward the door) or drains (sloped toward them) and when I was planning the contractor told me "you want the sloped floor don't you" as he shook his head from SIDE TO SIDE, and my floor is now all but flat (save for a birdbath or two) and I am quite pleased.

I cannot imagine washing a vehicle or equipment inside the shop. Way too much stuff around to get wet. Need a totally walled off bay or separate building for that.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You guys are making me think I don't want a drain anymore. Hope you're happy with yourselves! I just like the idea of detailing my cars and boat away from the sun and also running my boat periodically throughout the winter. If you had a redo how would you pour your slab. Thanks

Flat as the proverbial pancake. If you want a wash bay, do a separate, walled off lean too area for that, but not in the primary building.

 

[Cheesesteak1]

Ok, I'm listening and the drains are out of the picture. I appreciate the everyones input on here. I called my concrete guy and shared this with him and he recommends sloping the first 12-18" in front of the garage door door to keep water out. Thoughts on this?

On another note. It seems many people insulate the slab with foam. Should I insulate just the perimeter or the whole thing? How thick of foam? BTW, I'm not installing radiant heat in the floor. Thanks again

 

[csp]

You should have a grade on all four sides of the building to keep water out.

 

[MScott]

I live in St. Louis. Winters are mild but we have stretches of -0 for several days at a time.

Why not show your location in your profile (User CP.) Avoids respondents from having to search through your posts to find it and will result in higher quality answers in the future.

 

[matt_i]

I personally would not use the foam unless you plan in-slab radiant heat (even if in the future). Its an additional cost you don't need, the foam has to be strong enough in compression to support the concrete and more importantly, the loads that are placed on the concrete.

 

[justanengineer]

You might want to check w/your local building dept about drains, outbuildings larger than the standard 2-car sometimes require them. Personally I'd want drains regardless, you wont notice a minimal slope in the middle of your garage but you will miss that drain when cleaning the floor. Standard practice is to leave flat sections around the outside wall anyway where most benches and equipment goes, so it wont cause any issues even if youre a stickler about things being level.