Did I Go too Far?

[Garage_Mahal]

I bid on an eBay auction with this as part of the title
"Philips Screwdriver Set"

this picture

and this description:
# #1 1" Pozidrive Blasted Tip Philips
# 83584 #0 x 3" Pozidrive Blasted Tip Philips
# 83587 #2 x 5" Hex Nut Blasted Tip Philips

I've been collecting SK Expert2 screwdrivers in cheap auctions on eBay to make a set for the race trailer. I like them because they are good screwdrivers, but not so expensive that I'm gonna be heartbroken if they walk off. I need some Phillips screwdrivers to complete my set. This auction had a starting price of a penny. So I bid based on the off-chance that the picture was wrong but part of the description was right and I'd get some cheap Phillips, not Pozidrives. I won the auction for a penny! I received in the mail exactly what was pictured, three Pozidrive screwdrivers. No problem, I wasn't disappointed because I have use for Pozidrives too.

I have a philosophy that the feedback ratings I leave are for the benefit of seller, but the feedback text I leave is for the benefit of the other potential buyers like you all. So I left my feedback with a positive but this text:

Are Pozidrive not Phillips. There is a difference. Please drop all Phillips tags

I also gave him five stars on everything but description accuracy.

I quickly got this email from the seller:

I noticed your feedback and I don't know why you felt the need to make those comments. Your lack of ability to read the item description is not and should not be a reflection of my service! My description VERY clearly stated what these screwdrivers are and you paid a PENNY for them! In case you forgot to read, here is a copy of the descption, read it now:
These are BRAND NEW 3 piece sets of SK screwdrivers! The model is the Expert2 and each set consist of one of each of these screwdrivers:

* #1 1" Pozidrive Blasted Tip Philips
* 83584 #0 x 3" Pozidrive Blasted Tip Philips
* 83587 #2 x 5" Hex Nut Blasted Tip Philips

That amused me, so I replied:

My reading ability is just fine. You are misleading your customers. Your auction title said Phillips. That's what I was commenting on. They are not Phillips and are barely interchangeable with Phillips. I knew what I was getting based on the color of the screwdrivers in the picture and your text, and that's what I wanted. But what about your other customers who aren't as knowledgeable? I've noticed you are misleading in ALL of your auctions with the Pozidrive screwdrivers by calling them Phillips. Fix all your auctions and I will withdraw my feedback. In case you don't know, the yellow handle tip Expert screwdrivers are Phillips, http://www.skhandtool.com/Default.aspx?fusemode=10&pid=83526 the blue are Pozidrive. http://www.skhandtool.com/Default.aspx?fusemode=10&pid=83581

He replied:

Right, whatever you say boss! It's very clear to me that you are unable to read and just want to be a petty jerk. Good luck with that! I don't need or want to deal with people like you, just go away!

Ah! The game is afoot. Me:

Heck, fix all your auctions where you call Pozidrive a Phillips and I will bid on a set of the insulated screwdrivers. I like them.

Him:

Sorry, you will not bid on any of my auctions, I don't sell to petty jerks who can't read!

Hee, hee, time to twist it. Me:

Wow, I'm trying to make your auctions better with a simple change and I'm trying to give you more money, AND I left you a positive feedback. Who is being petty? I welcome feedback like this on my auctions when I get something wrong. It protects me and my feedback.

Read this if you think Phillips are the same as Pozidrive. http://www.hafele.com/us/services/haefele-library/4300.htm

Him:

Due to your arrogance, you are sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. My auction very clearly says they are Pozidrive and the only way you would know that is if you didn't or can't read. It appears, you can't read. Many people don't know what a Pozidrive is and since they are a philips style head, it allows them to know what they are looking at. The item description is correct and anyone who reads the auction knows that. Those who don't, won't! I don't know who appointed you the boss of my auctions or why you feel the need to try to tell me what to do or why you think it apppropriate for you to dictate how or what I do, but I'm tired of it! GO AWAY AND STAY AWAY AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS! If I need you as a consultant, I will ask for your opinion. Until then, keep your **** to yourself!

Time to toss it back to him:

Direct cut and paste from your auction that I won

* #1 1" Pozidrive Blasted Tip Philips
* 83584 #0 x 3" Pozidrive Blasted Tip Philips
* 83587 #2 x 5" Hex Nut Blasted Tip Philips <<< Third item does not say Pozidrive. The screwdriver you sent me was a Pozidrive. Your auction title and description was incorrect and misleading. Thank goodness I actually wanted a Pozidrive.

Would you be happier if I had left you a negative feedback over the incorrect description? No wonder you have so many negs, you are clueless.

Him:

Obviously you haven't read my feedback. You are a real jerk. GO AWAY

I had read his feedback. He's at 98.8% with 17 negatives and 15 neutrals over the past year.

Anyway, I couldn't see any more humor in the situation so I let the poor guy alone after this. I really was trying to be helpful in the beginning. So I ask you, fellow tool junkies, did I go to far?

(By the way the constant misspelling of Phillips as Philips is all his original work.)

 

[Fedwrench]

Yes, I think you went too far but, that's just my opinion. You got three French SK screwdrivers for a penny plus shipping or was there free shipping?
At any rate, the seller probably took in the shorts over the low winning bid which sometimes happens in Ebay land. Ebay is a risk with a no reserve auction for the seller and sometimes listings are shakey for the buyer. An accurate Ebay listing is like looking for Bigfoot. Just look at the threads about auctions for F80 ratchets that are in reality any model but an F80. I always think it's up to the buyer to determine what's really for sale but, that's just me. the fact that the seller didn't know the difference between a Posidrive and a Phillips isn't the scary part of the listing (if the attached link ist the right listing), The scary part is claiming the 3 piece screwdriver set listed for almost $60. However, to then point out errors in his listing that you won for a penny, I'm sure added insult to his injury. Kind of like pouring salt into an open wound. Enjoy your screwdrivers.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360125748145

 

[Stephenw]

A pozidrive is not a phillips. I agree that his ad was mis-leading. 

 

[Diesel-Mech]

His ad was off a bit but thats not a new phenomenon on ebay and you admit that you knew what he was selling anyways, to me I think it was kind of like looking a gift horse in the mouth after winning them for a penny but to each his own.

 

[Nicky9]

Sometimes people just dont get it...



Thanks for posting that... that was a fun read.

 

[-B-]

Use the reporting system to get him shut down and revise his auctions. I'll go first.

 

[back2class]

yes, you were being a bit silly. No point in wasting his time with snarkey messages or complaints when you got a steal.

 

[Garage_Mahal]

Fedwrench, how is a positive feedback and constructive criticism pouring salt in his wound? A wound, by the way, that was entirely self inflicted.

Thanks, Nicky9. I figured some other folks here would be amused.

-B-
Nah, I don't want to hurt him. He sells nice screwdriver sets that a few others around here may be interested in. I guess I'm just silly and old-fashioned for wanting to look out for other eBayers.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

No matter the price, the description is not accurate, simply put. What the guy should have in the description is "Posidrive, NOT PHILLIPS", and should have been thankful for the information.

The guy sounds like and A$$ from his replies, and 17 negatives, and 15 neutrals, even if a large seller, is not good. Large sellers should have their act together.

Did you go too far? Probably not, a little goofy yes, but he seems to have deserved it, you are so nice as to not mention the sellers ID in your posts (not that I found anyway), so you are not badmouthing anyone identifiable.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The scary part is claiming the 3 piece screwdriver set listed for almost $60.

He actually says.... "THESE RETAIL AROUND $59.00 per set!! "

What does "around" mean? Kinda strange way of describing a retail price. Most products have a MSRP and its fixed by the Mfg. Surely they can figure out what it is.

Charles

 

[superautobacs]

I'd feel mislead too, especially if I didn't know that there was such a thing as a Pozidrive, but was lead to believe that they are Phillips. I get them and realize that they don't fit any Phillips-head screws....I'd be pissed.

I really like the design of those. Like SK's, there's Britool and a Japanese company called KTC that also has the same thing under their line of tools. The OEM is a French manufacturer called Bost.

 

[Fedwrench]

Fedwrench, how is a positive feedback and constructive criticism pouring salt in his wound? A wound, by the way, that was entirely self inflicted..

It's all a matter of perception. I'm sure the seller is just trying to make a buck selling obsolete SK Expert screwdrivers he may have got in bulk from Harry Epstein or some place else. At any rate, he's probably slightly unhappy as he sees his profit margin shrink into the negative numbers with your winning bid of a penny. His unhappiness was probably compounded with your public comments about his listing errors after your low winning bid. He may even fear future declining screwdriver sales and more lost profit. At any rate, I perceive the seller took the whole auction as a personal insult. He didn't make any money and realized he couldn't tell a phillips from a posidrive. I'm guessing he would have prefered an personal email about his listing error over the feedback comment but, I could be wrong. I think he was unhappy at the whole penny winning bid. I'm just an outsider answering a question.

 

[Fedwrench]

He actually says.... "THESE RETAIL AROUND $59.00 per set!! "

What does "around" mean? Kinda strange way of describing a retail price. Most products have a MSRP and its fixed by the Mfg. Surely they can figure out what it is.

Charles

I'm guessing that if he figured out the actual retail price, it would be well south of $59. I think "around" is an excellent word that provides for plausible deniability on the sellers part but, that's just me.

 

[superautobacs]

I'm guessing that if he figured out the actual retail price, it would be well south of $59. I think "around" is an excellent word that provides for plausible deniability on the sellers part but, that's just me.

I agree with the word usage of "around"...I'd probably do the same thing as many things out there are sold at different prices.

 

[kythri]

After reading his feedback response to another buyer, you didn't go too far, this guy is an overreacting clown:

beautiful tote, fast service thanks! Buyer: BUYER ( 600) Feb-20-09 17:22
Reply by SELLER (Feb-20-09 17:36):
No mention that you $120.00 tote for a PENNY? Isn't that a good deal?

Franklin Covey Model #721130 Burgundy Leather Tote (#XXXXXXXXXXXX) US $0.01

They left a positive feedback for him, and he posts a follow-up, bitching that the buyer didn't make a special note of how cheap it was. The seller is a complete and utter jackass.

Did you see his feedback follow-up to your comment?

You paid a PENNY! Why not mention that? Pozidrive IS Philips tip! So petty!

He's now on my shortlist of eBay sellers I won't do business with...

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Garage-mahal, I have no problem with what you did. I probably would've done the exact same thing. Seller was pissed he didn't know exactly what he was selling, so he took it out on you.

 

[Merkava_4]

What is the item number of the completed auction?

 

[rsanter]

the mistake you made was a simple rule I try to follow:
never argue with an idiot...people may not know the difference.

bob

 

[Bo Heck]

that guy really has no clue. you did just fine, I would take it even further if I were you because of the way he responded.

 

[Danglerb]

Wrestling with a pig ... internet style.

Personally I have found educating a seller about the least satisfying good deed ever attempted.

 

[nissan_crawler]

Personally, I would have reported him for it and the reply.

 

[lbgradwell]

What is the item number of the completed auction?

360125748145

The guy does seem like a bit of a jerk...

 

[redsky49]

It's a losing proposition. After his first response, I would have thrown in the towel and gone out to the garage to do something constructive.

 

[The Muffin Man]

I don't think you were out of line at all. The seller was the one escalating the situation.

His tactics hurt not only himself, but the Ebay community as a whole.

 

[paramudduck]

I don't think I could have made it past this line in the shipping section.
"We do offer a 20% discount on shipping of multiple items. This offer is based upon the ability to ship all items together in ONE box and ONLY IF THOSE ITEMS CAN BE SHIPPED IN ONE BOX WITHOUT CAUSING THE ORDER TO BE SHIPPED DIMENTIONAL WEIGHT!!!"

What the heck is "DIMENTIONAL WEIGHT"??????

 

[dxdexter]

Anyway, I couldn't see any more humor in the situation so I let the poor guy alone after this. I really was trying to be helpful in the beginning. So I ask you, fellow tool junkies, did I go to far?

I would say you certainly went a lot farther than I would.

The guy sounds like and A$$ from his replies, and 17 negatives, and 15 neutrals, even if a large seller, is not good. Large sellers should have their act together.

Actually he has 184 negatives and 119 neutrals with 4 withdrawls. He sounds like a complete A-hole.

It's a losing proposition. After his first response, I would have thrown in the towel and gone out to the garage to do something constructive.

That's what I would do.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Who cares..?

 

[dxdexter]

Who cares..?

Aparently the OP does.

 

[kythri]

I care. I think of it kind of like the HF good/bad thread - it's another jerk seller to put in my exclude list, and saves me the potential hassle of dealing with them. There's plenty of other sellers out there, and I'd prefer to do business with them.

 

[Todd.Brock]

I have to agree that arguing with the seller may not be the best idea. He mislabled them but you knew what they really were, so, SCORE!

I just ordered a FHBF80 ratchet from ebay. They sent me the FHBF936A which isnt the 80 tooth. The Duel 80 is what I was after. I emailed the folks and said hey, we have a different model number. The technology is different, etc. The seller told me that she just listed what was on the ratchet. Keep in ming, I am looking at it and it says FHBF936A. They listed it as 117 retail value. I imagine she typed it in Snap Ons website and it does indeed point you to the new dual 80 version. I know there is a difference. They may not. Case and point, I just said, this is a different model and I would like a refund. They gladly did that and paid the return shipping. I learned that everyone may not be as ******** about their tools as we are.

 

[USMCvet]

If it were me at this juncture, I'd let it go. No sense in getting a stroke of that "hoople." You stated you case accurately and correctly, and IMO, there is no need to take it further.

As a side note, when he mentioned "around" $59, maybe he meant $58.99.
Good job!

 

[Garage_Mahal]

Should I open this can of worms again?

 

[eborcim]

It's cool to learn something new every day

You gotta remember that arguing on the internet is like arguing with a 3 yo kid.

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

I would've just sent him a message and let him know that he's selling pozidrives and not phillips,i wouldnt left it in his feedback. You won them for a penny. Have a heart.

 

[Bull]

I would've just sent him a message and let him know that he's selling pozidrives and not phillips,i wouldnt left it in his feedback. You won them for a penny. Have a heart.

This part of your reply made me laugh, Neal. Nicely worded.

 

[Garage_Mahal]

My heart is with other buyers. Did you click the link I posted today? Different seller, same problem. This time I would just send an email.

 

[kwhitelaw]

My heart is with other buyers. Did you click the link I posted today? Different seller, same problem. This time I would just send an email.

I just browsed, but this new auction, the only error I see is in the wording at the bottom it says there are 7 drivers.. but multiple times it says 5, an of course the picture shows 5..

is that what you are referring to?

 

[wreckercologist]

Should I open this can of worms again?

Awesome thread! I've had dealings with a few like this on ebay too.

I lean towards buyer beware. I try to inform myself as much as possible before I buy, but people like this just don't care if they decieve.

 

[Nealcrenshaw]

You also have to understand that EbAY sellers are still human meaning they make mistakes in their listings are misinformed and just sometimes dont know what they're selling,all in the name of making a dollar,which alot Ebay sellers do make a living by.

I've personally asked some questions of the sellers items and got back some empty answers,i then just try to figure it out by searching for other info on the item like the mfg'ers website or amazon or something like that.

Thats why its important to ask BEFORE you buy,it might save on the confusion.

For instance before placing your bid you could've asked 'are these phillips or pozidrives',phillips and pozidrives are not interchangeable,you might want to correct this?
Which he might of return a comment of, thanks i will correct this. This could have prevented the altercation.

 

[Garage_Mahal]

Neal,

Please re-read. I knew what I was getting, but I didn't want other buyers, who don't know the difference, to be mislead. Kinda like how we help each other out here on GJ.

kwhitelaw,

Blue highlights on the handle of an SK Expert 2 screwdrivers mean they are Pozidrive, yellow highlights are Phillips. The tips look similar but will booger up the screw heads if swapped indiscriminately. See http://www.hafele.com/us/services/haefele-library/4300.htm

This new seller is displaying blue-highlight screwdrivers in the picture, but describing them as Phillips. I was wondering if I should email him and let him know the difference, or leave the lid on the can of worms.