Did the insulation company do this right

[Hot shot]

Had the walls and ceilings done today
8 of the batts had no paper on them
Installer said it would be fine and would pass inspection (getting inspection tomorrow)
Other than having something to staple am I losing anything not having paper
Searched internet and supposedly the paper acts as a vapor barrier
Should I get them to replace 8 of them or not




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thewatusi]

It doesn't matter if it'll pass inspection. It's sloppy and lazy. Have them redo it.

 

[CombatNinja]

Is the garage going to be climate controlled?

 

[ford33]

That is sloppy and unprofessional.

Not positive on whether paper backing is necessary but this is what I found for the purpose of paper backing.

"Faced insulation has a vapor barrier, or a vapor retarder (the facing) that helps prevent moisture from moving from one space to another. The facing also helps protect the surface, hold the insulation together and fasten the material to building components"

 

[Higgins]

Have them redo it!

Hope you used a charge card to pay them!!

Take a picture and post on local contractor networks!

 

[Hot shot]

Not 24/7
Planning on putting 28,000 window air conditioner in
Winter time I will use one of those torpedo looking propane heaters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hot shot]

I’ve only given them 20%
They will bill for the balance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I'd put up plastic vapor barrier over those. without it the rest of the vapor barrier is also compromised.
It's cheap and easy. They probably had everything they needed with them. I'd complain about it but doubt the contractor will do anything. Seems like most aren't interested in repeat customers.

 

[Hot shot]

I’ll call the owner in the morning
I don’t think it will be a problem but you never know
Those ones with no paper came in the sealed bag from the factory but the installer should’ve just said I’m not putting them in, we will get some more

 

[scottydosnntkno]

“Staple free” insulation being used as a vapor barrier is the biggest crock of bull in the construction trades. Yes I build a remodel houses.

Look at it this way- the vapor barrier keeps inside moisture from migrating outside through the wall. Even with stapled insulation, and especially with that staple free, every edge along the wood is a leak point because the vapor barrier is broke there. So the few batts missing barrier won’t affect the overall leakeage rate. Hell, your drywall completely finished and three coated (primer and two finish coats) is a better vapor barrier than the insulation

The only true way to 100% vapor barrier is unfaced or blown cellulose with viewueen where your only leak points are the outlets, but then you can’t glue your drywall. Or spray foam where the drawback is cost

 

[mike93lx]

What a hack job. I wouldn't use him for any other work after this is fixed. If the vapor barrier didn't matter, he shouldn't have used it anywhere.

 

[Hot shot]

Now you have me thinking whether I should worry about it or not
I’m putting 7/16 osb in the ceiling and walls
2 coats of Kilz oil base primer and 1 coat of Valspar
2 final coats might’ve been a little better but I got tired of painting 42 sheets 3 times each
They spray foamed behind all boxes with fire retardant stuff
Sealed all cracks and holes where wire is running through
Sealed around windows

 

[Hot shot]

Yeah I was thinking I’m paying for paper backed so that is what I should get

 

[mike93lx]

The rest of the job looks ok from the pics

Was the spray foam they used orange? That stuff isn't actually fire retardant, it's just colored to make it visually easy to identify that gaps were sealed for inspection

 

[rsanter]

What’s on the other side?
The way that insulation works is 6 sided contact and still air.
Yes the paper works as a vapor barrier, but it also acts as an air barrier.
If the insulation is open on one side then you will not get the advertised R value from it.

 

[Hot shot]

Yes it was orange

 

[Hot shot]

Rsanter I never thought of it like that but it does make sense
By the way I did get r-30 instead of r-19


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mike93lx]

Rsanter I never thought of it like that but it does make sense
By the way I did get r-30 instead of r-19


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where? Hopefully not the walls

 

[Hot shot]

One other thing irked me a little but I didn’t get it in writing, was just assuming
The rafter vents they used aren’t 2ft wide like the trusses
They were 2/3 the way through when I noticed
Guy said that’s what they use all the time
I was assuming they would be 24” wide because that’s what I saw in Lowes
I was just thinking more air space but I’m not an expert

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hot shot]

30 in ceiling
15 in walls


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kngelv]

Very sloppy work and the air channels are too small. Sorry.

James

 

[chase237]

Not sure if mentioned yet but the vapor barrier is supposedto be stapled to the face of the joist / stud to create the actual vapor barrier. Lazy wins the day these days.

Hold their feet to the fire.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

If you’re installing drywall, properly painted and primed Drywall serves as a vapor barrier. If you are installing tin a vapor barrier is counterproductive. I agree it’s a sloppy job. But it actually won’t make much difference.

 

[Hot shot]

7/16 osb
2 primer coats and 1 top coat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[benjamintmiller]

In most climate zones, the paper facing is unnecessary and can trap moisture against the drywall when the building is cooled and it condenses against the drywall. I’m pretty far north and never install a vapor barrier or use faced insulation so depending on where you are, I wouldn’t sweat it. The biggest advantage to kraft faced insulation is that you can staple it up without it falling down on you.

As for the soffits, if you were to add up the total area of the vents you would find it exceeds the amount required by quite a lot. You only need 1 sq ft of vent area for every 300 sq ft of attic.

 

[Hot shot]

I’m in Virginia very humid in summer
2’ centers
23 vents in front 23 in back
Vents they use were 4’ long
They cut them to 2’
Actual width of vents are 11”
8” wide for air flow
1 1/2” stapling flanges on each side
Lowes sells 22 1/2 and 14 1/2 wide vents. 2’ centers and 16” centers, I’m assuming
Is 8” wide x 2’ long allowing enough air flow
Garage is 46x28

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[redneckcharlie]

There’s some bad information in this thread. Faced insulation is there for the purpose of installation, stapling to be specific. The facing, paper, has zero vapor barrier value. If your climate requires a vapor barrier, install one. If it doesn’t, don’t. There is nothing sloppy about using unfaced insulation. For all the know it alls, haven’t you ever noticed r19 for example comes in either faced or unfaced? Why do you think that is. One of the main areas that are over looked in insulating a structure is the actual wall penetrations. Make sure your receptacles and switches are either spray foamed around the box to seal them or have insulation installed behind them. Your penetrations are the main source of the inefficiency of an insulation install.

 

[joe--h]

Those torpedo heaters put out a hell of a lot of moisture.

 

[scottydosnntkno]

The rest of the job looks ok from the pics

Was the spray foam they used orange? That stuff isn't actually fire retardant, it's just colored to make it visually easy to identify that gaps were sealed for inspection

The great stuff pro red can (gaps and cracks) IS certified for use as a fire block, it says so right on the cans. They also make a fire block (orange can) but I’ve never noticed a difference with it other than the price. Our inspectors have no issue with us using red cans.

 

[spudley]

Those torpedo heaters put out a hell of a lot of moisture.

Yes they do! And they stink, and use all the oxygen in a tightly sealed building. I'd rethink using any type of non vented heater unless the plan is to leave doors open.

 

[58Yeoman]

I had a non vented propane wall heater in my last garage, a 28x28. Never again. Not only stinks, but causes rust on your tools and anything else. They should be banned.

 

[mike93lx]

The great stuff pro red can (gaps and cracks) IS certified for use as a fire block, it says so right on the cans. They also make a fire block (orange can) but I’ve never noticed a difference with it other than the price. Our inspectors have no issue with us using red cans.

Read the details. It stops air movement, which can help slow a fire, but the stuff still burns. Calling it fire retardant is not true.

I never said that it doesn't meet code. My comment is that it doesn't do what most people think it does

 

[volleyball]

I missed where the OP stated where they lived. What is proper changes with location. And saying what works for you without giving location is just as valuable.
A lot of places you don't vapor barrier the ceiling.

If the OP doesn't like something, they can demand it done the way they like it no matter if it is right or it cost extra. I know I would

 

[mike93lx]

I missed where the OP stated where they lived. What is proper changes with location. And saying what works for you without giving location is just as valuable.
A lot of places you don't vapor barrier the ceiling.

If the OP doesn't like something, they can demand it done the way they like it no matter if it is right or it cost extra. I know I would

Virginia. About 7 posts up.

To the OP, please put your location on your profile. "home" doesn't help anyone make good recommendations

 

[yeldogt]

There’s some bad information in this thread. Faced insulation is there for the purpose of installation, stapling to be specific. The facing, paper, has zero vapor barrier value. If your climate requires a vapor barrier, install one. If it doesn’t, don’t. There is nothing sloppy about using unfaced insulation. For all the know it alls, haven’t you ever noticed r19 for example comes in either faced or unfaced? Why do you think that is. One of the main areas that are over looked in insulating a structure is the actual wall penetrations. Make sure your receptacles and switches are either spray foamed around the box to seal them or have insulation installed behind them. Your penetrations are the main source of the inefficiency of an insulation install.

faced .. typically is asphalt based on the back holding the fiberglass -- it's a VB.

 

[yeldogt]

The codes references vapor retarders ... asphalt is a vapor retarder when used on kraft. Code officials fixate on VB -- it's really leaking the code official should worry about.

The debate on where to install the tabs has been going on for ... well .. ever. It depends on where you want the leaks.

The sad fact: There is only so much you can do with fiberglass batts -- they leak and the leaking reduces R values. You just don't get the R values that people believe.

leaking is where the moisture is flowing -- w/o leaking the moisture will not flow. Stack effect causing leaking and venting attics adds to the stack effect.

Plastic is an effective VB and also leaks (air) -- unfortunately it also traps moisture .. because you can't eliminate ALL the leaks -- and typically with batts on a ceiling you will have issue in the cold climates. Plastic caused nightmares when first used back in the 70's.

That's why I do unvented assemblies --

I do wish there was more info around on VB membranes -- they seemed promising. This is a product that's installed like plastic -- but it's not. It's an air sealing product with breathability

 

[dutchgray]

For what its worth in my 17 years in the construction industry in England I have never seen insulation with a paper face on it. We don't use as much fiberglass insulation now in new construction as you can't get the values out of it you need with out ridiculous thickness, but they still stuff tons of it in existing lofts to improve them.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Putting in fiberglass insulation is easy work. Dirty, itchy, nasty but easy work, especially with an electric stapler. No way I would pay someone to do it and get these types of results.

 

[scottydosnntkno]

Read the details. It stops air movement, which can help slow a fire, but the stuff still burns. Calling it fire retardant is not true.

I never said that it doesn't meet code. My comment is that it doesn't do what most people think it does

Well yes it meets code as far as fire blocking which is all that’s required in residential. It doesn’t have to be fireproof like commercial work

 

[DC73]

I'd put up plastic vapor barrier over those.

Not in his climate. Plastic is very rarely recommended by building scientists anymore in any climate.

I'd make the installer replace the batts without facing.

DC