I see what you’re saying and thanks for pointing that out. It seems like the ones that were higher than "dry" were thicker oils, and possible fit into the cateogry of "grease". Supporting the idea that grease will increase backdrag.
You posted it and should be curious as to what those materials are. SuperLube 21030 is NLGI 2 grease. This is not the grease snap on ships with rebuild kits.
Also, all those numbers are really small. The difference between 8 inoz and 10 inoz would be imperceptible in normal conditions.
Also soaking in acetone, would act as a degreaseer? So just submerge in liquid acetone, and then pull out and wait to get to the "dry" state?
No, I was just trying to make a point. DO NOT soak your ratchet guts in acetone. Acetone is a strong solvent. Point is: define “dry”. Most hardware manufacturers deal with is not ”dry”. There are almost always residual oils/finishes from manufacturing or corrosion inhibiting.
I understand that your saying messing with the springs could do more harm than good, could I just ask why you think this?
I’ve already posted this, pretty sure in this thread. The purpose of the spring is to maintain full contact between the pawl and the gear. If you lighten that spring pressure, you run the risk of losing contact area.
Also are you suggesting to use both grease and oil? I have been contemplating this combination. I'm thinking grease underneath the gear and pawl would ensure that it's lubricated longer, and wouldn't risk gumming up the teath. Just enough grease to lube up the underneath surfaces of the objects that move. Oil could go elsehwere on the teeth.
YES. In my opinion, no ferrous metal hardware should ever be dry. And I wouldn’t use grease to wet out my hardware. Look: grease is used in ratchets to reduce friction and preserve finishes at the metal to metal sliding interface. Grease is a physical barrier. Think of it like a Teflon washer, between the rotating gear and the body. If you had no grease and just a light oil, the oil would collect where gravity dictated and there would be no or very little lubrication between the sliding surfaces.
So: yes, you need to oil all the components. I recommend a light machine oil of some sort, then you need to grease under and over the gear with a grease that’s compatible both with the oil and with whatever seals your ratchet has.
This guy does an experiment with greases
And the 00 grease drips out of the whole in the cup, while the 0 John Deer Grease doesn't. He also mentions that the 00 grease might be a little thin. Are all 00 greases that thin? I was thinking if so, then 0 may be better at not leakign out of the ratchet?
I have never seen 0 or 00 grease in person before. Just on YouTube. There's also 000 grease, but it's not cheap.
Every grease is unique and was developed for specific needs. But all US made greases are categorized by the NLGI (National Lubricating Grease Institute) based on their viscosity. So all NLGI 2 greases have similar viscosities at room temp.
The grease snap on recommends is well documented here and is a NLGI 00 grease, which is pretty soft. While we’re here, just a quick reminder about Superlube. There are mineral based oils and greases with PTFE additives. Superlube is 100% synthetic, so like all synthetic oils and greases, it has a very constant viscosity over a broad temperature spectrum, which is great if you are like me and are stuck fixing cars in 100F summers and 20F winters here in PA.
Thanks for sharing the information.
Also I think you are right, a majority of the backdrag is from springs. So polishing up the internals may have little to no measureable effect. Still would be a neat experiment to try and confirm if it's the case.
Back drag is essentially normal force x coefficient of friction. Cutting the springs reduces the normal force. Polishing the gear teeth reduces the friction coefficient. As a side benefit, polished specimens are stronger since scratches are like perforations in a roll of paper towels. Also, smoother surfaces should wear less, since rough surfaces abrade like sand paper.
Pure speculation: the lovely tool nerds at Koken make low tooth count ratchets, with beautifully low back drag. My guess is, they tweaked their springs to get just the right amount of force. I’ll bet that wasn’t easy and some degree of trial and error testing, the likes of which no low cost Chinese or Taiwan manufacturer would have patience for, was required.
Also, whatever manufacturing process they use to produce their gears and pawls probably produces a better surface finish than other makers’ gears. Together, these things are attributes Chiwan makers can’t simply steal and duplicate. I don’t own any Koken tools, but my guess is, their ratchets are special and we likely won’t see their equal from another manufacturer any time soon. I really like dual 80 and like supporting US companies. If I were starting over, I would probably choose Koken just because I admire their dedication, curiosity and attention to detail.
Hope I’ve cleared up what why and how to grease your ratchets. Seriously, go back a read the entire thread. I’m not the only senior engineer here. There are excellent contributions in this thread (and goes without saying, elsewhere).