Hey all so I received my new Williams 1/2” long handle (S-52EHLA) in the mail today. USA-made, beautiful chrome, feels nice and sturdy in the hand but the ratcheting mechanism is just awful. I can barely spin the anvil by hand and it feels so clunky when turning a socket. I know it’s a 36 tooth but is there anything that can be done to make it more livable?
Disappointed with Williams Rachet…
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mreisner
Well-known member
Open it up and make sure it's not dry, super lube can help, also trimming the spring a little bit can help. It's always going to feel a little clunky compared to a dual 80, but they're a good ratchet.
seber
Well-known member
Before you open it, spin it with a drill for a minute in each direction to break it in.
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
Needs lubed up most likely.
Vinny
Well-known member
This. All my William ratchets felt that way until I pit some work in with them.
In comparison to modern designs, even most low cost imports, these have a lot of backdrag, even after clipping the spring. Or at least all the ones I have....
It's also difficult to get back together without the Snap On spring/ball tool.
It's also difficult to get back together without the Snap On spring/ball tool.
Ohio Andy
Well-known member
From memory, my notes tell me that I don't care a lot for Williams ratchets. But I never had difficulty spinning one by hand. I don't remember whether I've ever tried the half inch, but I know I've had three eighths and one quarter.
If not, reserves me, those ratchets are pretty tough and will take a lot of abuse. Be sure to post back when you decide what to do with it
If not, reserves me, those ratchets are pretty tough and will take a lot of abuse. Be sure to post back when you decide what to do with it
seber
Well-known member
I have a couple of B-52 ratchets in 3/8 drive and they are among the smoothest, lowest back drive ratchets I own.
milky2k
Well-known member
This spring that pushes against the pawl is too stiff. Disassemble and work the spring to break it in, the back drag should feel better after compressing it about 100 times or so. Do it more or fewer times to whatever suits you. You may want to stick a pin through the spring so that it won't bend when you are compressing the spring. Alternatively you can try to locate a softer spring, maybe a good hardware will have a selection of springs you can use or cut down. This will also be a good time to lightly lube your ratchet. Don't go nuts and dump a pound of grease in it like all the youtube certified mechanics to "quiet down' the ratchet. Also, I do not recommend spinning the ratchet with a drill to break it in. When you do this you are only compressing the spring the height of each tooth, which may take a long time to break in the spring. Manually compressing the spring outside of the ratchet, in my opinion is a better way to break in a ratchet.
scooby074
Well-known member
Lube it and use it. It will work in.
NHtoolguy
Well-known member
I agree that the vintage round-head Williams' ratchets are superb. Low back drag, precise clicks, and high tooth count. Really an excellent design. It took precision machining to manufacture them, with the fine-threaded lock ring, dual pawls, and the broached teeth. No smart manufacturer would sign up for that today!
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
I might end up being the lone voice of dissent here, but my $.02 is that life is too short to fiddle @#$% around with a brand new ratchet (or brand new anything, really) just so that it works the way it should have to begin with. If it were "new old stock" then I'd say open it up and Super Lube it, but new retail? No way I'm @#$%ing around disassembling, clipping springs and re-lubing it. Not everyone values their time, and to each his own on that score, but for me it's a hard pass.
Cutting the spring could potentially weaken the ratchet. If it’s a long handle ratchet, I assume the intention is to use it for high loads. I would not cut the spring or soak the head in ATF.
Williams is Snap Ons second line. The line is designed to be robust and economical.
In use it will loosen up. Over time, it may become a favorite. I don’t believe the spring compression will lighten over time, or if it does it will be very slight. What does happen is the gear teeth and pawl will wear. The corners of the teeth will wear down and the face of the teeth will become sort of polished.
If you want a new ratchet to perform like an old ratchet, or you want a new coarse ratchet to feel like a Koken ratchet, it’s possible you could remove the gear and polish it’s teeth. I’d be inclined to get a tiny Arkansas slip to smooth each tooth. I’ve never done it, and not sure I’d recommend it, but in theory, I think if you introduced a ratchet gear to a buffing wheel, I’d bet youd be able to feel the difference.
I’m with @gatewaysysop I’m not sure I‘d mess with it.
Williams is Snap Ons second line. The line is designed to be robust and economical.
In use it will loosen up. Over time, it may become a favorite. I don’t believe the spring compression will lighten over time, or if it does it will be very slight. What does happen is the gear teeth and pawl will wear. The corners of the teeth will wear down and the face of the teeth will become sort of polished.
If you want a new ratchet to perform like an old ratchet, or you want a new coarse ratchet to feel like a Koken ratchet, it’s possible you could remove the gear and polish it’s teeth. I’d be inclined to get a tiny Arkansas slip to smooth each tooth. I’ve never done it, and not sure I’d recommend it, but in theory, I think if you introduced a ratchet gear to a buffing wheel, I’d bet youd be able to feel the difference.
I’m with @gatewaysysop I’m not sure I‘d mess with it.
zimman
Well-known member
It's a new ratchet. If you don't like it, return it and never buy another one. There's no reason to disassemble, soak, oil a new ratchet.
If this happened to your new car, you'd be posting from the dealership.
Zim
If this happened to your new car, you'd be posting from the dealership.
Zim
I am no huge fan of the Williams/SnapOn ratchets simply because they use the old 36t mechanism. That being said, that old gearset is proven and they wear in very nicely. Id argue they are the very best ratchet option for the money. I have zero issue with pulling a new ratchet apart and oiling it, and have done the same with both of the new Williams I have. A little bit of oil and a lot of use makes them a nice, if coarse, ratchet. Mine live in toolboxes in my Jeeps.
I would much rather have a well made, US produced ratchet that it infinitely serviceable than a smooth, Asian rebrand that may or may not re rebuildable, or even available in a year.
DAWrench
Well-known member
Is back drag really that big of an issue on a 1/2 drive ratchet? With a long handle 1/2 drive I am more worried if it will hold up to high torque. It may be a defective ratchet but I doubt it is. I am sure with some use it will be fine
WWheeler
Well-known member
I've two of the 1/4" version of that ratchet, M-52EHFA, one as it comes and the other with a Snap-on RKRFC936 kit swapped into it to make it 3/8" ratchet in a 1/4" body. Both were like the OPs, with more backdrag than it seems it should, but, that's exactly how every new Snap-on ratchet I've bought has come also. As I've done with every one of them, I take the two screws out and pull the anvil gear out and add a few drops of Superlube's NLGI 00 lube, the same NLGI superlube Snap-on sends with their ratchet rebuild kits, which is thinner than the more common Superlube found in stores.
I get the little tubes of NLGI 00 superlube here:
Seems every one of the new ratchets from Snap-on or Williams comes with no grease on the backside of the big anvil gear. In looking at the brand new ratchets opened up before they've even been used by me, it sure looks like in assembly they must be adding a bit of lube after it is fully assembled just to the pawl area before putting the plate on. Opening it up and making sure there's a fine coating of lube under that gear and everywhere else makes a huge difference in backdrag on them. Night and day difference, especially noticeable on my new dual 80 ratchets.
I suppose if you were to just use the **** out of your new ratchet eventually the grease will find its way everywhere and get it broken in. I suppose that's why many say to spin your new ratchet with a drill as that may do it. I prefer not to spin it with a drill or wait.
I get the little tubes of NLGI 00 superlube here:
Seems every one of the new ratchets from Snap-on or Williams comes with no grease on the backside of the big anvil gear. In looking at the brand new ratchets opened up before they've even been used by me, it sure looks like in assembly they must be adding a bit of lube after it is fully assembled just to the pawl area before putting the plate on. Opening it up and making sure there's a fine coating of lube under that gear and everywhere else makes a huge difference in backdrag on them. Night and day difference, especially noticeable on my new dual 80 ratchets.
I suppose if you were to just use the **** out of your new ratchet eventually the grease will find its way everywhere and get it broken in. I suppose that's why many say to spin your new ratchet with a drill as that may do it. I prefer not to spin it with a drill or wait.
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Wamsutta
Well-known member
Pull cover plate and add more superlube.
If any of you guys suggest cutting the pawl spring . . . . I'm pulling your man card.
If any of you guys suggest cutting the pawl spring . . . . I'm pulling your man card.
I have a bunch of these. They've been Superlubed and have clipped springs. Still a ton of backdrag and very low tooth count as a bonus.
This is a 50+ year old design and just isn't competitive today- regardless of what you do. Sorry USA fans, but that's reality.
This is a 50+ year old design and just isn't competitive today- regardless of what you do. Sorry USA fans, but that's reality.
Wamsutta
Well-known member
50 year old design? The patent application was filed on March, 18, 1999
The design is the Snap-on 936 series.
US6125722A - Ratchet wrench with sealed reversing lever - Google Patents
A reversible ratchet wrench has a ratchet body with a cavity receiving the ratchet assembly. A pawl-engaging reversing lever is insertable through an opening in the ratchet body from the cavity and has a flange dimensioned to be trapped between the body and the pawl. A seal between the reversing...
patents.google.com
You’re not wrong, but you’re not exactly right, either. It is old tech, but it’s reliable old tech. A lot of us would rather have a US made ratchet that costs $40-$50 but needs some lube and some time than a 120t offshore option.
No, it doesn’t make sense, but it is what it is. Luckily, high tooth low drag US options exist, at a cost. I don’t want to use the 36t Snap On or Williams every day, but there is still a place for them.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
I don't care if it's made on Mars. As long as it has Nepros or Koken quality I could care less where it's made. The best deal in ratchets today is without a doubt the G2 ICON ratchets sold by Harbor Freight. Am I not patriotic because I refuse to pay Snap-On four times the price for the same quality of ratchet? Sorry, but I don't see it that way and neither did the many customers that bought thousands of dollars of TOPTUL tools from me. Which, by the way, have just had a 20% tariff placed on them. Why should TOPTUL be penalized for producing a superior product for a reasonable price? I say may the best man win. Isn't that the way America use to work?
Never said you had to agree, or that you shouldn’t be allowed to buy whatever you want, only that not everyone values the same attributes.
For me, for example, I like to work on American made stuff with American made tools. It just feels right. I’m not making a living at it, and I am a grown man that can buy the tools I want. I’d much rather have a 36t Williams in my drawer than a G2 Icon, even though I readily admit the Icon is an objectively “better” tool.
My priorities aren’t your priorities, and only one of us said a single thing about “patriotism.”
Back drag is a function of tooth size, spring stiffness, lubricity, and surface finish.
A coarse ratchet is stuck with large tooth sizes, and due to the pawl travel, fairly stiff springs.
My guess is, manufacturers like Koken, balance spring stiffness against ratchet strength, then really focus on surface finish. You can improve the surface finish of any ratchet if you are patient. But use does the exact same thing.
A coarse ratchet is stuck with large tooth sizes, and due to the pawl travel, fairly stiff springs.
My guess is, manufacturers like Koken, balance spring stiffness against ratchet strength, then really focus on surface finish. You can improve the surface finish of any ratchet if you are patient. But use does the exact same thing.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
Agree with all the helpful advice here.
A couple more notes:
-Snap-on has upgraded the old ball and spring for a mushroom shaped pin that is self retaining and less challenging to assemble.
-This is a sealed head ratchet which, in addition to everything else mentioned, adds friction when new. There is a small rubber seal behind the selector and a large rubber seal sandwiched in a groove between the cover plate and anvil. Make sure these two spots have adequate lubrication, but ultimately it will take use to break in all these contact points.
-This ratchet is 15” long! The solid ratchet engagement will be more appreciated once you find yourself reefing two-fisted on a tight bolt with this thing!
A couple more notes:
-Snap-on has upgraded the old ball and spring for a mushroom shaped pin that is self retaining and less challenging to assemble.
-This is a sealed head ratchet which, in addition to everything else mentioned, adds friction when new. There is a small rubber seal behind the selector and a large rubber seal sandwiched in a groove between the cover plate and anvil. Make sure these two spots have adequate lubrication, but ultimately it will take use to break in all these contact points.
-This ratchet is 15” long! The solid ratchet engagement will be more appreciated once you find yourself reefing two-fisted on a tight bolt with this thing!