Disappointing Proto Warranty Experience

[Hakeem]

I bought a Proto J5252FBL in April and posted about it. It didn’t get much use until a few weeks ago when I started on a job involving lots of threaded fasteners. I loved using it until one day it just starting acting up. The action became really coarse and it would reverse frequently. Eventually it just locked up.

I took it home and found this:


Seems like a piece of metal broke loose and wrought havoc on the anvil. This seems like a clear cut manufacturing defect, so the warranty should cover it, right?

Well I call in and speak with a gentleman who tells me to call back in a month as they are currently out of repair kits for this ratchet.

Ok, sometimes supply chains get messed up and stuff is on back order, I get that … but still, having to wait a month+ for the opportunity to call back for a repair kit is lousy service. I informed him that this was poor customer service and a great inconvenience to me, would Proto be able to offer something additional for my troubles? and he informed me that calling back in a month was my only option.

I then let him know that I was very unsatisfied with my Proto experience and that I would be informing others of my experience to which he said, “well sir, you are free to hold your own opinion”. LOL. I kinda have to respect the way this guy didn’t attempt to placate me but man, **** Proto.

Sorry for the rant but I was not expecting such poor service. I’ll reach out to Zoro, the vender that sold me the ratchet. Maybe I can send it back for store credit and get a non POS ratchet from a decent brand.

 

[Rabid Badger]

Does the ratchet not function normally after removing the piece of metal?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

That *****, sorry you lost out. Sad the premium option didn't give you premium lifespan.

If you have the part number maybe you can find someone with stock and buy a rebuild kit? I had a defective ratchet from Proto that also died early with little use. Luckily for me the product is a good product, so even if you do get boned on warranty at least if you fix it you should get good life from it. Annoying to be in the situation, but at least if you correct the ratchet to "as designed" spec without the defective part you can expect to get good life. Beyond annoying you have to do their QC and warranty process out of your time and wallet

 

[64C10]

Do you have a local dealer? I’ve never had an issue with Proto warranty through Grainger.

 

[Fedwrench]

Is that a 3/8 drive palm control ratchet? where's the rest of the pieces?

The grooves could be wear from the ratchet being adjusted to tightly.

the ratchet looks dry to me. They like thin oil no grease. The ratchets also have a sweet spot. Search palm control ratchet for more posts. They're great ratchets. Sorry things didn't work out for you.

Here's a link from Ultimate garage that has a You Tube repair video for the FACOM palm control ratchet which is basically the same internally as your Proto. https://www.ultimategarage.com/shop...t offered here is the current S.161B-KIT plus

Proto customer service is hit or miss. Zoro lists that ratchet as being on back order.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I bought a Proto J5252FBL in April and posted about it. It didn’t get much use until a few weeks ago when I started on a job involving lots of threaded fasteners. I loved using it until one day it just starting acting up. The action became really coarse and it would reverse frequently. Eventually it just locked up.

I took it home and found this:


Seems like a piece of metal broke loose and wrought havoc on the anvil. This seems like a clear cut manufacturing defect, so the warranty should cover it, right?

Well I call in and speak with a gentleman who tells me to call back in a month as they are currently out of repair kits for this ratchet.

Ok, sometimes supply chains get messed up and stuff is on back order, I get that … but still, having to wait a month+ for the opportunity to call back for a repair kit is lousy service. I informed him that this was poor customer service and a great inconvenience to me, would Proto be able to offer something additional for my troubles? and he informed me that calling back in a month was my only option.

I then let him know that I was very unsatisfied with my Proto experience and that I would be informing others of my experience to which he said, “well sir, you are free to hold your own opinion”. LOL. I kinda have to respect the way this guy didn’t attempt to placate me but man, **** Proto.

Sorry for the rant but I was not expecting such poor service. I’ll reach out to Zoro, the vender that sold me the ratchet. Maybe I can send it back for store credit and get a non POS ratchet from a decent brand.

I was also told that the repair kits are on backorder by Proto customer service. And I was also quoted 6-8 weeks for any warranty after I mail it in. It’s been a big swing in the customer service from Proto. Just before the pandemic, every time I had an issue I just called and someone just sent out a free replacement once I emailed them a few photos. Post-pandemic, their customer service *****. Everything has to be mailed in on your dime, the waiting is forever, and they don’t even guarantee they will warranty the item, just that they’ll take a look and make a decision. Hell, it almost sounds like the people on the other end of the line are following a script with how unhelpful they are. Literally all they say is send it in and they can review it.

 

[Hakeem]

Does the ratchet not function normally after removing the piece of metal?

No, it’ll be crunchy in both directions and pretty soon it’ll lock up. I never found debris I could say was clearly the offending component, I’m guessing it got pulverized. But after cleaning + oiling, its nowhere near the original level of functioning

That *****, sorry you lost out. Sad the premium option didn't give you premium lifespan.

If you have the part number maybe you can find someone with stock and buy a rebuild kit? I had a defective ratchet from Proto that also died early with little use. Luckily for me the product is a good product, so even if you do get boned on warranty at least if you fix it you should get good life from it. Annoying to be in the situation, but at least if you correct the ratchet to "as designed" spec without the defective part you can expect to get good life. Beyond annoying you have to do their QC and warranty process out of your time and wallet

You’re right, I’ll just wait a month and call back with my ticket number, hopefully they don’t charge me for the repair kit. I still like the ratchet (although I’ll think of it as a Facom from this point onwards) so yeah I’m hoping to get it back to working order.

In my mind, Proto failed twice. They failed to deliver a functioning ratchet, and they are failing to replace the defective ratchet in a timely manner. For the money they’d charge, I’d expect them to have better service. Maybe I’m just spoiled by the great warranties offered by HF, Astro, Tekton, Capri, etc.

What do the tool trucks do when you need a warranty on a back ordered tool, do they make it up to you somehow?

Do you have a local dealer? I’ve never had an issue with Proto warranty through Grainger.

That’s worth a shot. It’s really not a big deal in the grand scheme, but I’d prefer to avoid dealing with Proto directly. I am hoping Zoro will let me exchange it, stay tuned ….

Is that a 3/8 drive palm control ratchet? where's the rest of the pieces?

The grooves could be wear from the ratchet being adjusted to tightly.

the ratchet looks dry to me. They like thin oil no grease. The ratchets also have a sweet spot. Search palm control ratchet for more posts. They're great ratchets. Sorry things didn't work out for you.

Here's a link from Ultimate garage that has a You Tube repair video for the FACOM palm control ratchet which is basically the same internally as your Proto. https://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?products_id=7762#:~:text=The Facom kit offered here is the current S.161B-KIT plus

Proto customer service is hit or miss. Zoro lists that ratchet as being on back order.

Yes, it’s a palm control. I have this and the 1/2” long flex. Love(d) them both. I’ll post some photos of the rest of the parts tomorrow.

This was right after cleaning + drying, before some 3-in-1. I took the photos dry to enhance details. Hopefully the repair kit brings it back to “good as new” condition, it is a nifty little gizmo.

 

[Hakeem]

I was also told that the repair kits are on backorder by Proto customer service. And I was also quoted 6-8 weeks for any warranty after I mail it in. It’s been a big swing in the customer service from Proto. Just before the pandemic, every time I had an issue I just called and someone just sent out a free replacement once I emailed them a few photos. Post-pandemic, their customer service *****. Everything has to be mailed in on your dime, the waiting is forever, and they don’t even guarantee they will warranty the item, just that they’ll take a look and make a decision. Hell, it almost sounds like the people on the other end of the line are following a script with how unhelpful they are. Literally all they say is send it in and they can review it.

Super disappointing. I was considering calling back in the hopes of getting someone more helpful but from what you say, that would be a waste of time

They are not a professional tool brand with service like that. How do they stay in business, anyways .. gigantic government contracts? Maybe we just aren’t worth their time.

 

[64C10]

What do the tool trucks do when you need a warranty on a back ordered tool, do they make it up to you somehow?

I’ve only been in this situation once, Snapon dealer didn’t have the socket I broke on the truck (3/8” universal), but he did have a 10mm which he gave me free to get by (and hopefully not round off my header bolts) until he got my socket in.

This is more of an individual dealer thing than company policy though- your results may vary.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

No, it’ll be crunchy in both directions and pretty soon it’ll lock up. I never found debris I could say was clearly the offending component, I’m guessing it got pulverized. But after cleaning + oiling, its nowhere near the original level of functioning



You’re right, I’ll just wait a month and call back with my ticket number, hopefully they don’t charge me for the repair kit. I still like the ratchet (although I’ll think of it as a Facom from this point onwards) so yeah I’m hoping to get it back to working order.

In my mind, Proto failed twice. They failed to deliver a functioning ratchet, and they are failing to replace the defective ratchet in a timely manner. For the money they’d charge, I’d expect them to have better service. Maybe I’m just spoiled by the great warranties offered by HF, Astro, Tekton, Capri, etc.

What do the tool trucks do when you need a warranty on a back ordered tool, do they make it up to you somehow?



That’s worth a shot. It’s really not a big deal in the grand scheme, but I’d prefer to avoid dealing with Proto directly. I am hoping Zoro will let me exchange it, stay tuned ….


Yes, it’s a palm control. I have this and the 1/2” long flex. Love(d) them both. I’ll post some photos of the rest of the parts tomorrow.

This was right after cleaning + drying, before some 3-in-1. I took the photos dry to enhance details. Hopefully the repair kit brings it back to “good as new” condition, it is a nifty little gizmo.

If back-order exists on the tool truck, there's a few options.

If you order something with no stock (like a snap-on mobile workcenter in red) you just wait. This refers to things your franchisee doesn't have in inventory, or another truck, or the home base stockpile. My understanding with boxes (using snapon as an example) they only have one spray line. All the red boxes get sprayed, then all the yellow, all the orange, etc. You don't want to be constantly reloading equipment, cleaning, etc to change color. So if you order green, in a specific box, and there's no stock you get to wait in line until it's time to spray green boxes again. But you know this going in, be it due to low stock, you want a specific color air hammer, etc.

That situation above exists for anything, if they don't have it, you wait. Recently I waited a few weeks for a warranty pocket-screwdriver. Because this is a critical tool for me, I have 3 at all times. If a tool a tech needs is broken, some stuff there's really no excuse for. Some drivers won't break sets, and if they don't have singles available or choose the break sets and then not refill in a timely manner this will hurt sales. If you have something like a power-tool die under warranty, you may get a loaner/demo tool given to you in the mean time. Technically they don't have to do anything, but it's an inherently different situation as there is a warranty obligation on something already purchased rather than telling someone Hi-Viz yellow takes an extra 2-3 weeks to order but Red is in stock. Most dealers I've seen have a few good condition used tools and demo/loaners floating around. It may not be your exact tool, but it's something. This is why even with tool trucks, you need a back up plan for everything.


In your situation, you walk on the truck, kits are backordered. 1st thing is first, if it's a current production tool, that's a dealer fail because they need to have these. If items cannot be warrantied, due to discontinued or similar, they'll give you the last retail value of the tool as credit. So I bought a blue-point air chuck for ~180 bucks over 10 years ago. Over the years I paid out of pocket for a hose (~20). I did this because to redeem the lifetime warranty, I would just be given a new chuck. Which bluepoint chucks no longer have, but snap-on branded chucks do. So I can get a new hose for free, but then if the new unit dies 5 years down the road it's out of warranty. A part of the valve failed, and couldn't be acquired. I'm super easy to deal with, I bought an astro on amazon to use with a different clip on lead which is better for truck tires anyways. So after a couple weeks, they gave me $225? of credit towards the lifetime warranty unit they now sell, which out of pocket ended up being <15 bucks. Had I made a big deal about it, maybe I could have gotten something sooner. I had the Astro ordered and at my house in 36 hours and the bluepoint disassembled to find root failure, I didn't care how fast it got handled.



If things are back ordered, but broken, the often easiest option for a dealer is to give full value/good condition trade on the item which is broken, towards a new item. This appeases most. Covid hurt a lot of dealers who lost customers due to supply issues. These techs pivoted to the internet, and that's a tough genie to put back in the bottle. A coworker had a flex ratchet, 12" soft grip. The yoke failed, due to coworker putting a pipe on a 3/8 ratchet. That's on him. Snap on will warranty, but that style handle/flex is backordered. Snap on dealer does not communicate this situation well and keep my coworker up to date. Coworker now believes snap-on dealer has snubbed him, and won't honor the warranty. I back this all down between them, coworker gets the new-style locking flex head ratchet, which frankly he doesn't like because he has a bad taste in his mouth and the locking flex mechanism he doesn't like. The correct action for the dealer was to put him in a similar ratchet immediately, "as a loaner". Then he has a ratchet that is slightly different than his, but similar, and we can wait on the backorder. Ideally you upgrade him to a more expensive model. Then when backordered ratchet arrives you offer he can just return to loaner (to be resold as slightly used for a discount) or pay the extra $$$ difference between the two MSRP which gets the dealer a sale.


They'll generally try to get you back up and running. Most tool dealers understand the "Service" aspect of what the business model is. Most, not all.

 

[Wamsutta]

If that had been Snap-on and they were out of repair kits, they would've given you a new ratchet; or at least a dealer would.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

If that had been Snap-on and they were out of repair kits, they would've given you a new ratchet, or at least a dealer would.

Exactly. It's slightly more work for them versus mailing rebuild kits back for "field serviceable" warranty as it needs tagged/documented/etc. But snap on will eat it. We had a lube tech buy a snap-on ratchet that would not work, even after being rebuilt once. Something was off internally the way it was machined and it locked up and was hard to switch. Straight swap of the whole thing, sorry for the inconvenience, now he loves snap on because they took care of him. When he was feeling like his ratchet was junk after paying so much, he was very anti-snapon.

I equate it to fixing cars. I can try to get every last dollar I can out of someone, fight about a legitimate warranty of a part - why? It's way easier to be helpful, advisory, and give them what they're paying for. That makes them come back over, and over, and over. Which makes more money and keeps the business sustainable.

I could have bought my 2967 high torque on amazon, sold my mid-torque on marketplace (ugh) and probably saved 50bucks on the whole deal. I bought it from my Matco dealer. He shows up, has handled warranties, I've gotten good deals on used things from him, and he has ordered me the non-softgrip just chrome ratchets I like that some trucks hardly stock. He has value to me, and I hate facebook marketplace. Let him make some profit, he's a nice guy.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

If back-order exists on the tool truck, there's a few options.

If you order something with no stock (like a snap-on mobile workcenter in red) you just wait. This refers to things your franchisee doesn't have in inventory, or another truck, or the home base stockpile. My understanding with boxes (using snapon as an example) they only have one spray line. All the red boxes get sprayed, then all the yellow, all the orange, etc. You don't want to be constantly reloading equipment, cleaning, etc to change color. So if you order green, in a specific box, and there's no stock you get to wait in line until it's time to spray green boxes again. But you know this going in, be it due to low stock, you want a specific color air hammer, etc.

That situation above exists for anything, if they don't have it, you wait. Recently I waited a few weeks for a warranty pocket-screwdriver. Because this is a critical tool for me, I have 3 at all times. If a tool a tech needs is broken, some stuff there's really no excuse for. Some drivers won't break sets, and if they don't have singles available or choose the break sets and then not refill in a timely manner this will hurt sales. If you have something like a power-tool die under warranty, you may get a loaner/demo tool given to you in the mean time. Technically they don't have to do anything, but it's an inherently different situation as there is a warranty obligation on something already purchased rather than telling someone Hi-Viz yellow takes an extra 2-3 weeks to order but Red is in stock. Most dealers I've seen have a few good condition used tools and demo/loaners floating around. It may not be your exact tool, but it's something. This is why even with tool trucks, you need a back up plan for everything.


In your situation, you walk on the truck, kits are backordered. 1st thing is first, if it's a current production tool, that's a dealer fail because they need to have these. If items cannot be warrantied, due to discontinued or similar, they'll give you the last retail value of the tool as credit. So I bought a blue-point air chuck for ~180 bucks over 10 years ago. Over the years I paid out of pocket for a hose (~20). I did this because to redeem the lifetime warranty, I would just be given a new chuck. Which bluepoint chucks no longer have, but snap-on branded chucks do. So I can get a new hose for free, but then if the new unit dies 5 years down the road it's out of warranty. A part of the valve failed, and couldn't be acquired. I'm super easy to deal with, I bought an astro on amazon to use with a different clip on lead which is better for truck tires anyways. So after a couple weeks, they gave me $225? of credit towards the lifetime warranty unit they now sell, which out of pocket ended up being <15 bucks. Had I made a big deal about it, maybe I could have gotten something sooner. I had the Astro ordered and at my house in 36 hours and the bluepoint disassembled to find root failure, I didn't care how fast it got handled.



If things are back ordered, but broken, the often easiest option for a dealer is to give full value/good condition trade on the item which is broken, towards a new item. This appeases most. Covid hurt a lot of dealers who lost customers due to supply issues. These techs pivoted to the internet, and that's a tough genie to put back in the bottle. A coworker had a flex ratchet, 12" soft grip. The yoke failed, due to coworker putting a pipe on a 3/8 ratchet. That's on him. Snap on will warranty, but that style handle/flex is backordered. Snap on dealer does not communicate this situation well and keep my coworker up to date. Coworker now believes snap-on dealer has snubbed him, and won't honor the warranty. I back this all down between them, coworker gets the new-style locking flex head ratchet, which frankly he doesn't like because he has a bad taste in his mouth and the locking flex mechanism he doesn't like. The correct action for the dealer was to put him in a similar ratchet immediately, "as a loaner". Then he has a ratchet that is slightly different than his, but similar, and we can wait on the backorder. Ideally you upgrade him to a more expensive model. Then when backordered ratchet arrives you offer he can just return to loaner (to be resold as slightly used for a discount) or pay the extra $$$ difference between the two MSRP which gets the dealer a sale.


They'll generally try to get you back up and running. Most tool dealers understand the "Service" aspect of what the business model is. Most, not all.

So my Matco guy ghosted the shop but I have been using a Snap-on guy just off our route and he’s been awesome. I was never a Snap-on guy but now that I see what a good driver is like, it’s made me start buying more Snappy stuff. Night and day versus a crappy driver or industrial brands.

 

[four.cycle]

I then let him know that I was very unsatisfied with my Proto experience and that I would be informing others of my experience to which he said, “well sir, you are free to hold your own opinion”. LOL. I kinda have to respect the way this guy didn’t attempt to placate me but man, **** Proto.

Considering the tone and content of your comment posted HERE on GJ, I'm not at all surprised that was the response you got.
I probably would not have been quite as diplomatic.

The seller is under no obligation to "placate" you. They are only obligated to stand by and honor the terms of their written warranty, and it kind of sounds like that's what they're doing, although currently said widget is on back-order.

Welcome to the new paradigm: not every widget is going to be instantly available at any given moment just because you need one widget at that particular moment. We used to have stuff come in that had been on back-order for two years - that's certainly nothing new in the tool industry.

 

[four.cycle]

I loved using it until one day it just starting acting up

They failed to deliver a functioning ratchet,

Those two statements do not agree.

 

[four.cycle]

If that had been Snap-on

It was not a Snap-on.
If you want Snap-on warranty, you pay Snap-on prices.

I am utterly mystified by those who believe every tool manufacturer should have the same sort of "warranty" policy as what some of you guys get from the guy driving that Snap-on truck. It is simply disconnected from reality - the other companies are NOT Snap-on.
If you want that sort of warranty, bend over and deal with the guy on the big white truck.

 

[Wolley]

I'd expect to see some shiny metal on those area if some thing just happened to that ratchet. That looks like the design of that ratchet would let in debris to wear it out pretty quick. Aside from the entire mechanism cracking in half immediately after buying I wouldn't expect a free 40 dollar rebuild kit on a 40 dollar ratchet. Also it appears that those are made in Europe which makes the delay in getting parts more understandable.

 

[tamaraw]

So you are mad that something is on backorder? Not sure I understand that part.

If you need a rebuild kit asap, check Facom as well, ultimate garage might have some stock. (That ratchet is built by Facom in Italy).

I'm a little surprised that it is jamming after cleaning and re-assembly. I don't see anything terribly off in your photos, although you don't show half the components. Overtightening the torx screw could certainly make it jam, try backing it off a bit and see if that improves things?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

What's wild to me is the pictures -literally- show a defect in manufacturing.

If my work/parts have an issue, and I can't get one in a timely manner, we buy dealer parts. Doesn't matter the cost, we make it right. That's the standard, win some lose some, that's business. Doesn't matter if it costs more than we charged originally to fix it again.


Mail the dude a ratchet. Harbor freight would give him a ratchet. Boo hoo, Proto which is part a multi billion dollar corporation needs to give someone a ratchet because they built the ratchet he bought incorrectly. Just handle it.

 

[neophyte]

It was not a Snap-on.
If you want Snap-on warranty, you pay Snap-on prices.

I am utterly mystified by those who believe every tool manufacturer should have the same sort of "warranty" policy as what some of you guys get from the guy driving that Snap-on truck. It is simply disconnected from reality - the other companies are NOT Snap-on.
If you want that sort of warranty, bend over and deal with the guy on the big white truck.

Judging by past comments on GJ, both Snap-On and their dealers sometimes can’t provide warrantee replacements for popular items immediately either.
Sometimes it’s supposedly the dealer, other times the items are just backordered.

 

[Rinspeed]

Ok, sometimes supply chains get messed up and stuff is on back order, I get that … but still, having to wait a month+ for the opportunity to call back for a repair kit is lousy service. I informed him that this was poor customer service and a great inconvenience to me, would Proto be able to offer something additional for my troubles?

Lol, what exactly were you thinking "additional" to cover all your pain and suffering.

 

[Jswain]

Sounds like pretty decent customer service to me, if they had them in stock, sounds like a rebuild kit would be in the mail.

Is Proto the first company ever to run out of stock of something?

 

[Jswain]

Lol, what exactly were you thinking "additional" to cover all your pain and suffering.

That's the internet go to, give me something for free or I'll post about it online...

 

[Wrench97]

If that had been Snap-on and they were out of repair kits, they would've given you a new ratchet; or at least a dealer would.

Sounds like the ratchets are on backorder also.
Makes me wonder if they recently switched vendors and have a issue and pulled all stock as they either find another vendor or redesign some internal parts?

 

[rust in the eye]

"Well I call in and speak with a gentleman who tells me to call back in a month as they are currently out of repair kits for this ratchet."
I'll bet they have new ratchets to sell.
Inexcuseable "service". If yours is typical its no wonder they are out of repair kits?
Try with Zoro, they are the ones that took you money and ostensibly swing some meat with Proto.

 

[rust in the eye]

It was not a Snap-on.
If you want Snap-on warranty, you pay Snap-on prices.

I am utterly mystified by those who believe every tool manufacturer should have the same sort of "warranty" policy as what some of you guys get from the guy driving that Snap-on truck. It is simply disconnected from reality - the other companies are NOT Snap-on.
If you want that sort of warranty, bend over and deal with the guy on the big white truck.

My own experience with Snap-On (aside the bending over part) has varied depending on the route driver/salesman. The local one I'm familiar with pisses and moans any time he's not lining his pockets.
I now deal with S.O. directly on the infrequent ocassions I break a tool, it has never been an issue for me doing it this way.
Snap-On warranty is adminstered differently on different occasions, by different agents.
@OP I recently bought some Williams round head ratchets from another member here and really like them. Since you are local you are welcome to borrow one to try out. LMK

 

[Wrench97]

"Well I call in and speak with a gentleman who tells me to call back in a month as they are currently out of repair kits for this ratchet."
I'll bet they have new ratchets to sell.
Inexcuseable "service". If yours is typical its no wonder they are out of repair kits?
Try with Zoro, they are the ones that took you money and ostensibly swing some meat with Proto.

The Proto J5252FBL appears to be on backorder everywhere.

 

[BrandonV]

Proto operates like MAC (which is no surprise considering they're both SB&D). Items take a long time to come back in stock.

Snap-on generally seems to have manufacturing figured out. They almost always have everything or if not it is just a short wait until they do.

 

[four.cycle]

If you want Harbor Freight warranty, shop at Harbor Freight.
If you want Snap-on warranty, shop on the Snap-on truck.

The Covid pandemic interrupted the "supply chain" and it's still not the same. Americans have been spoiled for years, being able to have every imaginable item available 24/7, 365 days a year. That's not a reflection of the real world.

Used to be you bought strawberries in June, Raspberries in July, and Blueberries in late August. Now we get them all year round from Mexico or Chile, but this is not the way the tool industry works. When stuff is on back-order, it means the manufacturer is out of stock and isn't scheduled to do another production run tomorrow morning just because you say so.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Proto operates like MAC (which is no surprise considering they're both SB&D). Items take a long time to come back in stock.

Snap-on generally seems to have manufacturing figured out. They almost always have everything or if not it is just a short wait until they do.

I wouldn't say that, they have plenty of inventory issues. They got hurt pretty bad during covid. Truck stock is okay but ordering stuff is a lot harder.

If you want Harbor Freight warranty, shop at Harbor Freight.
If you want Snap-on warranty, shop on the Snap-on truck.

The Covid pandemic interrupted the "supply chain" and it's still not the same. Americans have been spoiled for years, being able to have every imaginable item available 24/7, 365 days a year. That's not a reflection of the real world.

Used to be you bought strawberries in June, Raspberries in July, and Blueberries in late August. Now we get them all year round from Mexico or Chile, but this is not the way the tool industry works. When stuff is on back-order, it means the manufacturer is out of stock and isn't scheduled to do another production run tomorrow morning just because you say so.

Counterpoint - run some OT and fix the back order.

But covid really shook up supply chains and HOPEFULLY some brands will learn to not run so lean.

 

[tamaraw]

Sounds like the ratchets are on backorder also.

Yes, they are listed as such on Zoro.

Makes me wonder if they recently switched vendors and have a issue and pulled all stock as they either find another vendor or redesign some internal parts?

It's the same production in Italy by Facom/USAG as far as I know. The design is ~30 years old and originally produced in France but moved to Italy I think 20 years ago. I can't imagine much has changed.

 

[four.cycle]

Counterpoint - run some OT and fix the back order.

^ This might have been a practicable solution during WWII, but in the current world of the American work force, it simply isn't feasible. It's difficult enough to find help to show up to work a regular shift.

Production runs of hand tools require setting up the dies and tooling to produce ONE particular widget.
Okay, so while they may use the same blank for both the 10 and 11mm combination wrench, or the same blank for a 5/8" and a 19/32" socket, that's not the case with most any other item you can name: each widget requires its own little die, and its own little procedure for production.
That's why a production run might be 10,000 units, or 100,000 units - and those numbers are based upon previous sales history.

So Facom cranked out 10,000 of those ratchets one week, and then they went in and re-set all the dies and tooling and started cranking out some other widget, and the ratchets aren't scheduled for another production run until March 2025. That's just how it works in the tool industry.
Used to drive me crazy to have ONE socket or ONE wrench on backorder for 18 months, but that's how it is.
It's not unique to tools, either: had the same issues with Carter carburetors and fuel pumps.

 

[four.cycle]

As far as I know, those "palm grip" type Facom ratchets have been manufactured in Italy for some time. nice design very nice action, but touchy on the adjustment screw (noted above.) too heavy a lubricant will also cause it to malfunction.

 

[liliysdad]

If you want Harbor Freight warranty, shop at Harbor Freight.
If you want Snap-on warranty, shop on the Snap-on truck.

Seems to me if the bottom and the top of tool industry can run an effective warranty program, everyone else in the middle could (should) do the same.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

^ This might have been a practicable solution during WWII, but in the current world of the American work force, it simply isn't feasible. It's difficult enough to find help to show up to work a regular shift.

Production runs of hand tools require setting up the dies and tooling to produce ONE particular widget.
Okay, so while they may use the same blank for both the 10 and 11mm combination wrench, or the same blank for a 5/8" and a 19/32" socket, that's not the case with most any other item you can name: each widget requires its own little die, and its own little procedure for production.
That's why a production run might be 10,000 units, or 100,000 units - and those numbers are based upon previous sales history.

So Facom cranked out 10,000 of those ratchets one week, and then they went in and re-set all the dies and tooling and started cranking out some other widget, and the ratchets aren't scheduled for another production run until March 2025. That's just how it works in the tool industry.
Used to drive me crazy to have ONE socket or ONE wrench on backorder for 18 months, but that's how it is.
It's not unique to tools, either: had the same issues with Carter carburetors and fuel pumps.

I'm aware of the hassles. As an employee, any concerns or issues I have are responded with "**** you figure it out" from all sides.

IDK you're Stanley Black and Decker - figure it the **** out. People don't want my "excuses" about time lines, parts availability, labor costs, additional variables, more broken parts or damage, plastic disintegrating in my hands, nonothing. I get nothing but attitude, bitching, and nastiness. Being that such grace is not normally afforded to me, I am not one to afford it to multi national corporations.


Don't have backorder, and you won't need to fix it. "Just make it work" is the equivalent line I hear all the time.

SBD fucked up. Backorder is the definition of ******* up. Now its time to reap the consequences. Don't want to mail out replacement ratchets because kits aren't available? Don't **** up then. dont have any more ratchets of that style? What are you swapping OP into then?

Seems to me if the bottom and the top of tool industry can run an effective warranty program, everyone else in the middle could (should) do the same.

You mean the tippy top just 1 or 2 rungs off the top.

A brand that has a market cap at 15 Billion, and Google lists as the world's largest tool maker. Owner of the brand which oozes quality, proto, know for decades as the face of industrial work.

IDK don't **** up then SBD.

 

[tamaraw]

Slow down there, negative Nancy

I'll bet they have new ratchets to sell.

OP's J5252FBL is indeed listed as backorder. I think the chrome model J5252F might be available if they were to ask, but it's not the same ratchet.

If yours is typical its no wonder they are out of repair kits?

Can't say I have heard defects being common with Facom round heads in the last few decades. My 1/2" model was a little rough out of the box but very smooth after I adjusted it. YMMV

 

[Wrench97]

I'm aware of the hassles. As an employee, any concerns or issues I have are responded with "**** you figure it out" from all sides.

IDK you're Stanley Black and Decker - figure it the **** out. People don't want my "excuses" about time lines, parts availability, labor costs, additional variables, more broken parts or damage, plastic disintegrating in my hands, nonothing. I get nothing but attitude, bitching, and nastiness. Being that such grace is not normally afforded to me, I am not one to afford it to multi national corporations.


Don't have backorder, and you won't need to fix it. "Just make it work" is the equivalent line I hear all the time.

SBD fucked up. Backorder is the definition of ******* up. Now its time to reap the consequences. Don't want to mail out replacement ratchets because kits aren't available? Don't **** up then. dont have any more ratchets of that style? What are you swapping OP into then?




You mean the tippy top just 1 or 2 rungs off the top.

A brand that has a market cap at 15 Billion, and Google lists as the world's largest tool maker. Owner of the brand which oozes quality, proto, know for decades as the face of industrial work.

IDK don't **** up then SBD.

That's the issue industry says oh ok we need it go buy something else. Warranty is nice but the production line moving is the immediate issue, I've fixed new trucks that should be under warranty but we needed the truck more then the $100 it cost to fix it now.

 

[Snapped-off]

I'm surprised people still buy that junk.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

That's the issue industry says oh ok we need it go buy something else. Warranty is nice but the production line moving is the immediate issue, I've fixed new trucks that should be under warranty but we needed the truck more then the $100 it cost to fix it now.

I've done the same. Downtime is a major thing. Now a ratchet? Yeah, most people have extras. I can tell you if I repaired a car, it broke due to a defective part, and that part was then on backorder - GJ would have their pitchforks and torches ready if I said "IDK try back in a month".


SBD makes good tools. They will, due to the realities of mass production, have some attrition rate outside of abuse. Warranty liability, one might call it. Jerry Seinfeld has a reservation for a rental car, yet they have no vehicle for him at check-in -

"Do you know what a reservation is? I don't think you do know what a reservations is, if you did, I'd have a car. Anybody can just take them! It's the holding, holding the reservation, which some might say is the most important part of the reservation".

Part of a warranty is the reservation, be it kits, new complete tools, etc. This incurred cost to build and hold inventory is part of the ratchet MSRP. Brands that can't do this get zero sympathy or excuses for me. Handle your inventory. Do a stop-sale if you don't have the "cars" to fill your "reservation". If you don't have the midsize, put me in a full size then. Send the dude a 90tooth in the mean time.

If they don't want to look bad and they also don't want to upgrade people into other free tools they do have in stock, the solution is simple. Handle your inventory correctly. If international pandemics effect inventory, and you're not building new factories to fix your inventory backlog because that costs a ridiculous amount of money, then expect to "make it right" to people at a higher incurred cost on a per warranty basis than you initially calculated. Boo hoo. If I remove an exhaust manifold and every single stud snaps off less than flush, I get "***** to be you" and not a penny more. SBD, ***** to be you, fix the ratchet or figure out an alternative.

I'm surprised people still buy that junk.

It's honestly astounding to me PROTO of all brands is in such a situation. It's the crown jewel of SBD, figure it out.

 

[four.cycle]

Seems to me if the bottom and the top of tool industry can run an effective warranty program, everyone else in the middle could (should) do the same.

How is not an "effective" warranty program?
Their warranty covers "for as long as the original purchaser owns the product against defects in material or workmanship."
A worn-out ratchet is not "defective" - it's worn out.
A ratchet that worked fine out of the box

I loved using it

Is a ratchet that worked fine out of the box. That is "malfunctioned" several months later most certainly isn't any indication there's anything "defective" about the materials or workmanship.

Seems to me if the bottom and the top of tool industry can run an effective warranty program, everyone else in the middle could (should) do the same.

Then you should start your own business and show them all how to do it right.

Backorder is the definition of ******* up.

Every manufacturer on the planet has something on backorder at some point. It is one of the facts of life.
To believe otherwise is simply delusional fantasy.

Part of a warranty is the reservation,

More delusional fantasy stuff.
So... let's say Ford runs out of water pumps to build one particular engine.
They should stop selling Fords because they ran out of that water pump?
By what stretch of the imagination is that in any way connected to how the real world works?
Following that logic, every manufacturer of every widget that ever existed was doing it all wrong, according to you.

Stop expecting every tool manufacturer to offer some sort of "unconditional no-questions-asked lifetime warranty" on hand tools:
it's not going to happen. Sears is out of business!
If that's the sort of warranty you want and expect: deal with the Snap-on guy and stop complaining!

The ratchet worked fine out of the box. It's NOT "defective". A "defective" ratchet would malfunction right out of the gate.