Disappointing Proto Warranty Experience

[liliysdad]

Is a ratchet that worked fine out of the box. That is "malfunctioned" several months later most certainly isn't any indication there's anything "defective" about the materials or workmanship.

So, in your opinion, a premium ratchet should only be expected to work for a few months? If a ratchet quits working after a short time, and it’s not sure to material or workmanship…what’s it due to?

Then you should start your own business and show them all how to do it right.

I don’t have to, there are tool companies that already handle their business appropriately

The ratchet worked fine out of the box. It's NOT "defective". A "defective" ratchet would malfunction right out of the gate

So, what cause that malfunction a short time later? Poor design? Voodoo?

If a quality ratchet stops working without being abused or worn out, it’s absolutely workmanship and materials. There isn’t another option.

 

[American Locomotive]

@four.cycle

There's a big difference between the internal mechanism of a ratchet wearing out after years and years of use and abuse, and the selector mechanism of a few month old ratchet jamming and failing.

I can forgive Wright tools for not providing a free rebuild kit for a many-years-old ratchet that's seen heavy use. A 4 month old ratchet that had its selector mechanism fail and lockup is definitely a warranty thing. It should not have happened.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

How is not an "effective" warranty program?
Their warranty covers "for as long as the original purchaser owns the product against defects in material or workmanship."
A worn-out ratchet is not "defective" - it's worn out.
A ratchet that worked fine out of the box

Is a ratchet that worked fine out of the box. That is "malfunctioned" several months later most certainly isn't any indication there's anything "defective" about the materials or workmanship.

Then you should start your own business and show them all how to do it right.

Every manufacturer on the planet has something on backorder at some point. It is one of the facts of life.
To believe otherwise is simply delusional fantasy.

More delusional fantasy stuff.
So... let's say Ford runs out of water pumps to build one particular engine.
They should stop selling Fords because they ran out of that water pump?
By what stretch of the imagination is that in any way connected to how the real world works?
Following that logic, every manufacturer of every widget that ever existed was doing it all wrong, according to you.

Stop expecting every tool manufacturer to offer some sort of "unconditional no-questions-asked lifetime warranty" on hand tools:
it's not going to happen. Sears is out of business!
If that's the sort of warranty you want and expect: deal with the Snap-on guy and stop complaining!

The ratchet worked fine out of the box. It's NOT "defective". A "defective" ratchet would malfunction right out of the gate.

If internal parts break off, and damage other components, in normal use, what would that be? It was built, then used as designed, and internal metal parts failed. OP didn't put a pipe on it, bend the handle, snap the drive. The ratchet is breaking to pieces internally. Metal is breaking into pieces. What else is that? Wear? How does steel wear and break into pieces? How can the OP damage or break steel pieces inside a ratchet and make them come off and tear things up? Since when is this even a thing that happens? I've never heard or seen anything like it from any brand, it's breaking apart like an old cookie. That's parts that have too wide a tolerance, too lax QC process, too low rejection rate, too much heat treat variation - something is wrong somewher down the line if a ratchet mechanism breaks into pieces.


If ford is out of pumps, they need to get some pumps. Being out of pumps is not a legitimate option, pumps are required. No pump is not a valid outcome. If they can't get pumps, customers need loaners. I spent 50k on this truck, I expect to drive it, go to AVIS and rent me a truck then or give me the keys of something on the lot. Ford has a liability to fix the truck. If Ford can't fix the truck, they need to figure this out. Just telling customers "yeah park your truck in the back and maybe we can get a pump in a month" is unacceptable and going to piss people off. Thus, systems need in place to not allow for "we have zero pumps". Some OEMs even earn themselves class action lawsuits as a result of such foolishness.

I can't let people out the door with loose lug nuts, and have wheels fall off. Perfection is the standard for me in this regard. There is no "oops, did I do that?" when a wheel flies off at 60mph. Ford needs to have water pumps. If they don't, they need to buy from another vender. If they can't get them, and customers need pumps, it's on Ford to figure it out and not be assholes about it. Call people, manufacturer pumps, handle your business. There should be no running out, because when you're down to your last X number of water pumps a solution should already be coming. If they don't want to handle their business and have solutions, expect to have to pay more warranty cost and have more headache to "make it right". Because that's what business is about. Customer service is easy when things go right, companies prove how they really operate when things go wrong.




An item can certainly have defect in design or manufacturing, and not be broken in half out of the box. Ford, is the perfect example of this, pick your engine family. A plastic intake manifold which cracks and splits, is a defect in design or manufacturing. Exhaust manifolds heat cycle, and if they're breaking apart at 50k, somebody screwed up. It was built wrong, the design was wrong, or the bean counters gambled wrong. If spark plugs break off in the head from being carbon locked, that was a defect in design and manufacturing. If the 1.5L ecoboost all blow head gaskets and have coolant intrusion due to an insanely small 2/3 sealing surface, that's a defect in design and manufacturing.


I don't need a forever warranty. I just think metal parts breaking apart in a ratchet, after a lifespan measured in months, is unacceptable. Especially for Proto. Proto=quality. If I buy some SJAESLIHAGR brand on amazon, and it dies after months, well I bought an alphabet soup brand on amazon. Proto doesn't make tools like the OP experenced, that is not the standard of what they make. That tool doesn't represent what Proto makes.

 

[neophyte]

Seems to me if the bottom and the top of tool industry can run an effective warranty program, everyone else in the middle could (should) do the same.

Harbor Freight and Snap-On both run out if tools on occasion.
Small specialty manufacturers like Lie-Nielsen and Sargent also run out of stock on particular items.
Sargent, years ago, wanted orders of 10,000+ to put an item into production when it was out of stock, so that may be around a minimum quantity to expect a manufacturer to want to produce.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Harbor Freight and Snap-On both run out if tools on occasion.
Small specialty manufacturers like Lie-Nielsen and Sargent also run out of stock on particular items.
Sargent, years ago, wanted orders of 10,000+ to put an item into production when it was out of stock, so that may be around a minimum quantity to expect a manufacturer to want to produce.

My issue, is the cultural acceptance of backorder. "Guess there's nothing we can do". Backorder is a choice. Backorder is known, it approaches, and is eventually reached. We know units going out, units coming in. If back order is reached, so be it. But fix the situation for people. If one cannot directly replace the item, try to find a work around. If you NEED 2x4s, and they're back ordered, buy 4x4s and cut them. If that's too expensive, remember that when it's time to figure out the inventory load of 2x4s.


Back order can be a rare occurrence, which needs to immediately have effort put into resolution. It is not an acceptable "normal operating procedure" as it seems so many brands are accepting. OEMs in the automotive space just have backorder out the ***. Then fix your systems which are leading to all of these back order issues!

 

[Hakeem]

What's wild to me is the pictures -literally- show a defect in manufacturing.

If my work/parts have an issue, and I can't get one in a timely manner, we buy dealer parts. Doesn't matter the cost, we make it right. That's the standard, win some lose some, that's business. Doesn't matter if it costs more than we charged originally to fix it again.


Mail the dude a ratchet. Harbor freight would give him a ratchet. Boo hoo, Proto which is part a multi billion dollar corporation needs to give someone a ratchet because they built the ratchet he bought incorrectly. Just handle it.

"Well I call in and speak with a gentleman who tells me to call back in a month as they are currently out of repair kits for this ratchet."
I'll bet they have new ratchets to sell.
Inexcuseable "service". If yours is typical its no wonder they are out of repair kits?
Try with Zoro, they are the ones that took you money and ostensibly swing some meat with Proto.

Yes, thank you these two responses sum up my feelings very well.

If I sold someone a defective product AND i couldn’t source a replacement for a month, I would be deeply embarrassed and I would ask how I could make it right for my customer. In my mind, that’s good service.

Proto is a premium brand charging premium prices. I expect premium service to accompany those premium prices. I don’t think that’s unreasonable. What else are we paying the big bucks to them for?

 

[neophyte]

The

My issue, is the cultural acceptance of backorder. "Guess there's nothing we can do". Backorder is a choice. Backorder is known, it approaches, and is eventually reached. We know units going out, units coming in. If back order is reached, so be it. But fix the situation for people. If one cannot directly replace the item, try to find a work around. If you NEED 2x4s, and they're back ordered, buy 4x4s and cut them. If that's too expensive, remember that when it's time to figure out the inventory load of 2x4s.


Back order can be a rare occurrence, which needs to immediately have effort put into resolution. It is not an acceptable "normal operating procedure" as it seems so many brands are accepting. OEMs in the automotive space just have backorder out the ***. Then fix your systems which are leading to all of these back order issues!

USA suffers from a Supreme Court case concerning tax law that was made during the late 1970s.
Production costs cannot be depreciated in the USA while inventory sits on a shelf, which was the standard accounting procedure before the decision was made.
Unless huge production run cost savings can offset capital ******* in shelved parts, manufacturers prefer to operate with lower inventory levels.

Thor Power Tool Co. v. Commissioner - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Hakeem]

Lol, what exactly were you thinking "additional" to cover all your pain and suffering.

Cmon, not even a week ago you told me about Proto sending you an entire bit socket set to warranty one bit.

All I wanted was a black oxide Spline drive 3/8” socket in size 7/16” to replace one I had lost. It retails for like $6. I would have been happy as a clam with that small token of acknowledgment of “we messed up”. It’s about the principle.

If you want Harbor Freight warranty, shop at Harbor Freight.
If you want Snap-on warranty, shop on the Snap-on truck.

Seems to me if the bottom and the top of tool industry can run an effective warranty program, everyone else in the middle could (should) do the same.

I wouldn’t even call Proto middle of the road, by the prices they charge they certainly are approaching Tool Truck neighborhood. But yes, agreed. Plenty of less-expensive brands that go above and beyond: Astro, Tekton, HF, Capri - I only ever hear great things.

I'm surprised people still buy that junk.

It’s a cool, storied brand. But yeah, there’s so many great alternatives out there no need to put up with it

That is "malfunctioned" several months later most certainly isn't any indication there's anything "defective" about the materials or workmanship.

Just to address this point - I’m not a mechanic or anyone who uses ratchets daily. I maintain my cars and encounter the occasional hex head fasteners at work. So despite it having been in my possession for months by now, it probably encountered 100-200 fasteners in total.

 

[four.cycle]

A 4 month old ratchet that had its selector mechanism fail and lockup is definitely a warranty thing. It should not have happened.

Valid point, but fails to address any and all variables involved. (and it's five months: April May June July August September)
Did the user "adjust" the unit by tweaking that tiny TORX screw on the top?
Was the wrong lubricant used?
Those are questions for which answers have not been provided. There may be other variables involved that I'm not aware of.
Not everything is simply black and white.

The fact that the OP states "he loved it" when first purchased tells me the unit functioned flawlessly when first used. The OP states later that " it probably encountered 100-200 fasteners in total."

So... as my buddy would ask me when I call him on the phone to tell him that one of my machines isn't working properly (whether that be my truck, a lawnmower, the blender, or some other mechanical device) his first question is always the same: "What did you do to it?"

Somewhere in between April and September something changed, obviously. It is not the nature of ratchets to change on their own of their own volition.

If internal parts break off, and damage other components, in normal use, what would that be? It was built, then used as designed, and internal metal parts failed.

I'm not seeing any parts "broken off" in the OP's first set of photos. I'm seeing an odd wear pattern.

 

[four.cycle]

USA suffers from a Supreme Court case concerning tax law that was made during the late 1970s.

Which ultimately brought about the biggest major change in inventory management during the 20th Century: "J.I.T. inventory control."
"Just In Time" inventory control meant downsizing the inventory to provide for faster turnover, and shortening the time of order cycles.
(So instead of ordering Fel-Pro every two months, we'd send in smaller orders every few weeks.) (Was quite a weird concept when first introduced.)(Didn't work with every manufacturer every time, because prepaid freight minimums required longer re-order cycles.)
Unfortunately, in order for "JIT" inventory control methods to work in the real world, it's necessary to have no production delays or snags from the supply side: every widget has to be available every minute of every day.
The Covid pandemic's effects on the "supply side" are still with us today.
Not really sure what part of that is difficult for some people to understand.

 

[four.cycle]

If a quality ratchet stops working without being abused or worn out, it’s absolutely workmanship and materials. There isn’t another option.

There is most certainly "another option"

The grooves could be wear from the ratchet being adjusted to tightly.

^ This right here

Send the thing in to SBD and let's see what they have to say on it.

In the meantime, I'm not convinced there's anything "defective" about that unit that according to the OP's opening statement worked just fine when he first used it.

More to the point: there is nothing at all about the transaction that does not comply (to the letter) with Proto's written warranty policy..
What your Snap-on guy does, or what Harbor Freight does, isn't relevant.
Again, if you expect and want Snap-on warranty service, deal with your Snap-on guy.
If you want Harbor Freight warranty service, deal with Harbor Freight.

NO successful business ever stayed successful because they did everything the same way as their competition.

 

[KnurledNut]

@Hakeem
I have a Wright paperweight that can come hang out with your busted Proto if it needs emotional support.

 

[Etchase]

I really like palm control ratchets. I’m not sure when the last time Proto sold a black version, but I don’t think it was recently. It was purchased for $40, so it may not have been out of regular or authorized stock even back in April when it was purchased. I think the overwhelming majority of proto is sold thru supply houses who handle the warranty for their customers. It’s how Proto is distributed. If somehow someone is left out to dry by the distributer, they can follow the established warranty process and mail the defective product in. This can take weeks, but it’s what the warranty is. Product can be available for warranty that is indicated out of stock elsewhere. Sometimes they replace it with the replacement product. Stanley was without equal in keeping stock the last few years. Where was this ratchet purchased? Was there a date code on the bag?

 

[gatewaysysop]

I then let him know that I was very unsatisfied with my Proto experience and that I would be informing others of my experience to which he said, “well sir, you are free to hold your own opinion”. LOL. I kinda have to respect the way this guy didn’t attempt to placate me but man, **** Proto.

Ugh. I can't stand when customer service people have an attitude like that. If you can't help because of policy or whatever, fine but don't be jerk about it. Not surprised though, this is generally how it goes with customer service "professionals". Where I work, we routinely do call listening. I will go out of my way to get people reprimanded or fired when I hear them treat customers like ****, revel in being unhelpful or having zero empathy. I'm a big believer in what Bob Sutton calls the No ******* Rule™.

 

[American Locomotive]

In the meantime, I'm not convinced there's anything "defective" about that unit that according to the OP's opening statement worked just fine when he first used it.

Defective does not mean "completely broken and unusable out of the box". It could be problems with the forging process, poor heat treatment so the metal is too soft, incorrect assembly from the factory leading to excessive wear, debris left from manufacturing wearing and jamming things eventually.

Just because something worked initially doesn't mean it wasn't defective. There's a reason why companies' warranty terms are typically "years" long, or "lifetime".

No ratchet ever should "wear out" in 4 months. Like I said, I can defend Wright not offering a free rebuild kit for a many years old ratchet that just genuinely wore out. But proto should absolutely be stepping up and resolving this problem with a 4 month old ratchet.

 

[liliysdad]

There is most certainly "another option"

^ This right here

Send the thing in to SBD and let's see what they have to say on it.

In the meantime, I'm not convinced there's anything "defective" about that unit that according to the OP's opening statement worked just fine when he first used it.

More to the point: there is nothing at all about the transaction that does not comply (to the letter) with Proto's written warranty policy..
What your Snap-on guy does, or what Harbor Freight does, isn't relevant.
Again, if you expect and want Snap-on warranty service, deal with your Snap-on guy.
If you want Harbor Freight warranty service, deal with Harbor Freight.

NO successful business ever stayed successful because they did everything the same way as their competition.

It is interesting how much you despise Snap On, as evidenced in other threads, yet defend Proto like a knight defends his castle.

If a quality ratchet fails within months of purchase, and has not been abused, it’s defective. Period.

 

[rust in the eye]

If you want Harbor Freight warranty, shop at Harbor Freight.
If you want Snap-on warranty, shop on the Snap-on truck.

I find them comparable.
OP didn't buy from either.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The

USA suffers from a Supreme Court case concerning tax law that was made during the late 1970s.
Production costs cannot be depreciated in the USA while inventory sits on a shelf, which was the standard accounting procedure before the decision was made.
Unless huge production run cost savings can offset capital ******* in shelved parts, manufacturers prefer to operate with lower inventory levels.

Thor Power Tool Co. v. Commissioner - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In my presidential campaign, reforming this would be top priority. I will make speeches and blame at congress. In all seriousness, that's been a major issue for US manufacturing. Which creates.... backorder. That said if they have a higher incurred cost they can raise their prices or cut the margins, and offset the tax liability. To a point anyway.

This along with jail time for not returning shopping carts, it would be a cornerstone of my campaign.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Valid point, but fails to address any and all variables involved. (and it's five months: April May June July August September)
Did the user "adjust" the unit by tweaking that tiny TORX screw on the top?
Was the wrong lubricant used?
Those are questions for which answers have not been provided. There may be other variables involved that I'm not aware of.
Not everything is simply black and white.

The fact that the OP states "he loved it" when first purchased tells me the unit functioned flawlessly when first used. The OP states later that " it probably encountered 100-200 fasteners in total."

So... as my buddy would ask me when I call him on the phone to tell him that one of my machines isn't working properly (whether that be my truck, a lawnmower, the blender, or some other mechanical device) his first question is always the same: "What did you do to it?"

Somewhere in between April and September something changed, obviously. It is not the nature of ratchets to change on their own of their own volition.


I'm not seeing any parts "broken off" in the OP's first set of photos. I'm seeing an odd wear pattern.

Pieces/area are missing from the ratchet surface. Unless it became very fine powder (which is probably worse), there are pieces hanging out in the mechanism. Little grains of sand. Unless OP cleaned out the ratchet I'm betting we could find some pieces with a magnifying glass.

I would agree, a proper functioning ratchet with no defects - ratchets doesn't change. Even if he adjusted the screws, doing that makes ratchets unusable very quickly. IDK how changing the oil/grease would destroy tool steel so quickly. And there's no evidence he did either.

When I worked at the tires store, occasionally you got a tire which wasn't round. Sometimes ratchets aren't made right and fail quickly. It's a trade off for mass production. They could individually proof every single ratchet if they wanted, for an insane cost like the $35 single bolts the military buys because they've been xray'd and made love too and perfection is quantified. Being that they don't, because the price would be insane, they carry a warranty liability.

If OP did secretly adjust the screws, how do we prove thus? Proto can say "yeah bro our stuff doesn't break like that, you must've broken it"?


The primary issue I have with thus, is the brand. Proto is quality. My beef isn't a failed tool, that happens. My issue is the laissez faire attitude they have. This ratchet doesn't represent proto. Proto makes high quality goods. But the ideal or insinuation of "well then OP broke it somehow by secretly modifying it" is outlandish at best. It's a defect. Proto makes excellent tools. With no evidence to the contrary there seems to be no malfeasance on the part of OP.

The simplistic answer is often the correct one. A widget produced in batches by the 1000s has a known degect rate. Said defect rate likely applies..

 

[NORDFORD]

I’ve been selling tools since 2001. SK, Facom, Proto, Wright, Armstrong, Gearwrench, Tekton, GP, Williams, etc.

The Proto ratchet you bought may be the biggest POS ever sold. It’s a Facom. They also used to build ratchets for SK. Same issue. Before SK went **** up, I bet I warrantied 3 ratchets per week - of all styles.

I will say this. Since we switched to Proto we have had very few issues. I bet I’ve only warrantied 15-20 ratchets since 2007.

The right tool for the job is paramount here. The fine tooth ratchets break when used to break fasteners loose. Finer gears are weaker in most designs (there are exceptions).

Also, what “extra” do you deserve? They are back ordered. If you don’t like backorders, don’t buy any of SB&D products. There’s a saying in our industry, “if you want to ruin a company, sell it to Stanley”. I’ve seen it happen a handful of times in 23yrs.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Something for future readers:

If you have a Proto warranty issue, just mail it, wait, and hope. Proto phone people seem employed to just tell you that.

 

[BrandonV]

Something for future readers:

If you have a Proto warranty issue, just mail it, wait, and hope. Proto phone people seem employed to just tell you that.

Wait you will. I think the average time it takes for a Proto return in the mail for me is upwards of a year.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

Something for future readers:

If you have a Proto warranty issue, just mail it, wait, and hope. Proto phone people seem employed to just tell you that.

Yep. That is exactly it. When you call, the CS rep is going to email you instructions for how to send the item in and that’s that. No extra help anymore. Something changed with Proto’s CS. They used to be really cool people but now the reps just seem like they are reading off a script.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Wait you will. I think the average time it takes for a Proto return in the mail for me is upwards of a year.

I waited over a calender year for a gearwrench swivel socket. When I finally remembered about it and called back, the lady seemed pretty embarrassed about the whole thing.

Jokes on them, I already bought a replacement from Matco. However the joke was actually on me, because at the time I think the same group owned both brands. LOL

 

[Under_Pressure]

My issue, is the cultural acceptance of backorder. "Guess there's nothing we can do". Backorder is a choice. Backorder is known, it approaches, and is eventually reached. We know units going out, units coming in. If back order is reached, so be it. But fix the situation for people. If one cannot directly replace the item, try to find a work around. If you NEED 2x4s, and they're back ordered, buy 4x4s and cut them. If that's too expensive, remember that when it's time to figure out the inventory load of 2x4s.


Back order can be a rare occurrence, which needs to immediately have effort put into resolution. It is not an acceptable "normal operating procedure" as it seems so many brands are accepting. OEMs in the automotive space just have backorder out the ***. Then fix your systems which are leading to all of these back order issues!

This is my biggest thing across all businesses (and many consumers) since covid- the acceptance of failure at their core responsibilities. Failure to have products available, failure to provide good service, failure to control prices. Before 2020, businesses would at least be ashamed of stuff like this and take action to correct it. Since then, there has been an attitude of "you're lucky we sell you anything at all" in a lot of places. I think the old across-the-board "customer is always right" policy could be a little extreme as well, but we've gone way to far the other way.

Yes, a lot of it is out of companies' control- inflation drives price increases for example. But that doesn't mean that businesses, and their consumers, should just accept whatever crazy increases there are and shrug and say "eh, inflation, what can you do?" as they jack up prices another 10%. They should be obsessing over whether than 10% increase could really be 9% or 8% or 6%. But they know they can get away with 10% and use the extra for bonuses or creating a new "Chief Innovation and Human Experience Officer" position or whatever, so why bother? Same goes with production issues- it's one thing if there is literally no way to produce what you need, and all options are exhausted. But over the last several years, it's again throwing their hands up and saying "eh, supply chain issues, what can you do?" IDK, but I'm sure there is SOMETHING that might not completely solve the problem but will at least marginally improve it.

I don't want to say too much and veer into the political, but let's just say that a lot of this, at least with big corporations, has stemmed from companies buying into the idea that their success isn't just defined by providing the products/services that customers want, when they want them, at the lowest cost possible, but rather... other metrics.

 

[Schurkey]

As far as I know, those "palm grip" type Facom ratchets have been manufactured in Italy for some time. nice design very nice action, but touchy on the adjustment screw (noted above.) too heavy a lubricant will also cause it to malfunction.

Looks much like the ratchet head on my Jo-Line torque wrench...which was modeled on the Facom as described by the grandson of the Jo-Line founder in another thread on this site.

The ratchet worked fine out of the box. It's NOT "defective". A "defective" ratchet would malfunction right out of the gate.

Of course it's defective. Low use, fairly new, and crunchy--slippy inside. SOMETHING or several somethings were not made properly. Improper tolerances, improper heat-treat, improper grade of steel...there's probably other possibilities.

Customer service is easy when things go right, companies prove how they really operate when things go wrong.

God bless you.

An item can certainly have defect in design or manufacturing, and not be broken in half out of the box. Ford, is the perfect example of this, pick your engine family. A plastic intake manifold which cracks and splits, is a defect in design or manufacturing. Exhaust manifolds heat cycle, and if they're breaking apart at 50k, somebody screwed up. It was built wrong, the design was wrong, or the bean counters gambled wrong. If spark plugs break off in the head from being carbon locked, that was a defect in design and manufacturing. If the 1.5L ecoboost all blow head gaskets and have coolant intrusion due to an insanely small 2/3 sealing surface, that's a defect in design and manufacturing.

Ford and "defects in design and manufacturing" go hand-in-hand. But the concept is strong--companies cost-cut in as many ways as the human mind can conceive; and then the customer suffers. OK, we're not all going to drive Rolls-Royce cars with fanatic attention to detail. But when there's a problem, the company needs to handle it with grace and dignity, and with the least inconvenience to the customer as possible.

Don't get me started on OTC Tools and their "Lifetime Marathon Warranty".

 

[dnschmidt]

And people gave me **** when I said: "Within ten years Harbor Freight will rule the world." I'm willing to modify that statement now: make it five years.

 

[four.cycle]

It is interesting how much you despise Snap On,

I never said that.

What I said was: they are ridiculously overrated and outrageously overpriced.

You're free to disagree with my opinion, but not free to put words in my mouth.

Thanks.

 

[liliysdad]

I never said that.

What I said was: they are ridiculously overrated and outrageously overpriced.

You're free to disagree with my opinion, but not free to put words in my mouth.

Thanks.

Sounds like a lot of extra words to say the same thing.

 

[four.cycle]

Thanks in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[Wrench97]

I’ve been selling tools since 2001. SK, Facom, Proto, Wright, Armstrong, Gearwrench, Tekton, GP, Williams, etc.

The Proto ratchet you bought may be the biggest POS ever sold. It’s a Facom. They also used to build ratchets for SK. Same issue. Before SK went **** up, I bet I warrantied 3 ratchets per week - of all styles.

I will say this. Since we switched to Proto we have had very few issues. I bet I’ve only warrantied 15-20 ratchets since 2007.

The right tool for the job is paramount here. The fine tooth ratchets break when used to break fasteners loose. Finer gears are weaker in most designs (there are exceptions).

Also, what “extra” do you deserve? They are back ordered. If you don’t like backorders, don’t buy any of SB&D products. There’s a saying in our industry, “if you want to ruin a company, sell it to Stanley”. I’ve seen it happen a handful of times in 23yrs.

Probably would not be an issue if the rep simply said, I'm sorry sir the kits are on backorder most likely for at least another month give me your address and we'll mail you one when they come in.

It's more of a customer service issue because the rep said to call back in a month and see if we have any in then.

 

[four.cycle]

Probably would not be an issue if the rep simply said, I'm sorry sir the kits are on backorder most likely for at least another month give me your address and we'll mail you one when they come in.

Perhaps, but to reiterate my first comment in this thread: I think there's more than one side to the story about the phone call.

 

[liliysdad]

Perhaps, but to reiterate my first comment in this thread: I think there's more than one side to the story about the phone call.

I still find it odd how hard some folks work to defend garbage customer service.

He had a ratchet. It was defective. The manufacturer offered no real recourse.

Garbage.

 

[Beerhippie]

Long ago, in a place far away, was a giant empire that ran on this same stocking principle for spares and replacement parts.

"Da, comrade, we have part, back-order. Call again five years."

That empire is no longer around.

 

[garfunkle24]

Long ago, in a place far away, was a giant empire that ran on this same stocking principle for spares and replacement parts.

"Da, comrade, we have part, back-order. Call again five years."

That empire is no longer around.

The one that put a guy in space before you did?

We're just randomly throwing shade at other countries right? I assume the country and not the regime as that would be political and you wouldn't go there, right?

Also, you didn't have to change it from "country" to empire", "country" was fine.


On topic: The warranty discussions on here blow my mind. You have some guys that think you should be able to use a screwdriver as a chisel, prybar and hitch pin for 50 years, dissolve it in acid and return the unlabelled mixture to the vendor for a no quibbles replacement. On the other end we got the ones that think a ratchet that fails after a few months of normal use isn't worthy of warranty?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Probably would not be an issue if the rep simply said, I'm sorry sir the kits are on backorder most likely for at least another month give me your address and we'll mail you one when they come in.

It's more of a customer service issue because the rep said to call back in a month and see if we have any in then.

Yup, all about perception and optics. Even if the results are the same proper customer service tilts perception as best as possible. If someone misses a dentist appointment, they are subject to a cancellation/no-show fee. The guy who seems legitimately apologetic and guy who shrugs his shoulders both gave the office a chair with no patient, and no revenue. One is much more likely to have the no-show fee waved.

The one that put a guy in space before you did?

We're just randomly throwing shade at other countries right? I assume the country and not the regime as that would be political and you wouldn't go there, right?

Also, you didn't have to change it from "country" to empire", "country" was fine.


On topic: The warranty discussions on here blow my mind. You have some guys that think you should be able to use a screwdriver as a chisel, prybar and hitch pin for 50 years, dissolve it in acid and return the unlabelled mixture to the vendor for a no quibbles replacement. On the other end we got the ones that think a ratchet that fails after a few months of normal use isn't worthy of warranty?

What's crazy is the USSR won the space race in basically every aspect BUT the moon landing. Pretty sure the USSR orbited the moon first as well. First satellite, animal in space (which died per mission expectation IIRC), first animal to make it back, man in space, woman in space, space walk, space station, etc.

The US either beat them to the manned lunar landing, or constructed the greatest fabrication and coverup of all time. Not sure which I'd say would be more impressive.

 

[tamaraw]

Probably would not be an issue if the rep simply said, I'm sorry sir the kits are on backorder most likely for at least another month give me your address and we'll mail you one when they come in.

It's more of a customer service issue because the rep said to call back in a month and see if we have any in then.

Yup, all about perception and optics. Even if the results are the same proper customer service tilts perception as best as possible. If someone misses a dentist appointment, they are subject to a cancellation/no-show fee. The guy who seems legitimately apologetic and guy who shrugs his shoulders both gave the office a chair with no patient, and no revenue. One is much more likely to have the no-show fee waved.

I agree that ***** to hear as an end user, but hardly the rep's fault if the company doesn't support customer backorders. I think that's pretty common for manufacturers that don't do direct sales (vs a vendor). You guys are both making a big assumption that the rep can offer what you describe in the first place.

I see so many entitled morons think the guy at the counter owes them free stuff because they spent $7.68 five years ago. Or that they hold sway to call up a factory and make discontinued items magically appear if they just weren't so stupid/lazy. In reality, it's often some poor sod making close to minimum wage and taking all off the abuse with zero agency to offer deals or the like.

We already know that OP kept whining to the rep about inconvenience after being told that the parts weren't available. And told the rep how they are going to badmouth the company. And demanded an oddly specific socket for free as comp. And then came on here to post "man, **** Proto" when they got turned down. It's not a good look, imho.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I agree that ***** to hear as an end user, but hardly the rep's fault if the company doesn't support customer backorders. I think that's pretty common for manufacturers that don't do direct sales (vs a vendor). You guys are both making a big assumption that the rep can offer what you describe in the first place.

I see so many entitled morons think the guy at the counter owes them free stuff because they spent $7.68 five years ago. Or that they hold sway to call up a factory and make discontinued items magically appear if they just weren't so stupid/lazy. In reality, it's often some poor sod making close to minimum wage and taking all off the abuse with zero agency to offer deals or the like.

We already know that OP kept whining to the rep about inconvenience after being told that the parts weren't available. And told the rep how they are going to badmouth the company. And demanded an oddly specific socket for free as comp. And then came on here to post "man, **** Proto" when they got turned down. It's not a good look, imho.

I can't speak for how the situation went down. I won't broach that topic as I have noting but assumptions.



This is why customer service is so important. And we can't blame the dude on the phone, it's not his fault. Customer facing people get **** on in a lot of positions, and it's really not fair to them. For instance if the cook overcooks your medium rare burger, he gets paid, the server gets the bitching and maybe no tip. My snap on dealer said people would get absolutely nasty with him over backorder (grrr) and stuff that's straight up not warranty in any way. Imagine someone having a melt down and smahing a cordless impact to pieces throwing it agianst the ground, then giving the truck driver attitude about not warrantying their hissyfit. Because the guy in the truck has the forge at his house and just needs to spend a weekend pounding out some sockets for you, to fix that backorder.

My beef with backorder is always in the lens of the operation, not the individuals. Most individuals cannot course correct for that. The board of directors can.

 

[liliysdad]

It is absolutely a customer service issue. If a company, like Proto, who advertises high quality tools as purports to back those tools, has a supply chain issue, they need to fix it. In the mean time, and in unavoidable situations, the correct answer is "Sir, we seem to be having problems getting those ratchets, can I send you something comparable?"

Instead, it's "Man, I don't know when we are getting those, maybe try later. Good luck."

That's not how the game should work, and the very reason those white trucks will keep on rolling.

 

[tamaraw]

Putting aside the drama, let's look at what went wrong mechanically and how we can fix it.

Besides the Facom/USAG kits I mentioned earlier, I remembered that you could also check stock with MAC dealers since they use the same round heads.

That said, there are 6 components in the head besides the handle (anvil, heart spring, selector dial, spinning plate, and torx fastener). The two photos of the anvil you posted look fine, I would be more interested in what the heart spring or the teeth on the handle and pawl look like in order to suggest repair options.

The mark that you have circled on the left of the first photo doesn't make sense as damage in use.

1. Factory finish is still intact. Scratches or wear will present as shiny silver which you can see in other sections off the photo.

2. The construction of the ratchet leaves a fair bit of clearance between the selector dial and anvil in order to accommodate the heart spring and allow it to flipflop unimpeded. You would need a rather large chunk of anything to get wedged in this space.

3. The selector dial stays fixed relative to the anvil when using the ratchet. In other words, even if a piece of something were stuck in this space, it wouldn't gouge when turning the ratchet. The only time that they slide against each other is when you turn the selector with your fingers.

The part you have circled in your second photo just looks like a blob of the factory lube used between the anvil and the pawl. Facom likes to use a thick graphite based lube there. It's an odd shape for a piece of metal, is it solid?

You can use this video as a guide, the two primary reasons for it not functioning would be the torx screw being overtightened or the dowel on the selector switch not being aligned correctly in the "V" of the heartspring.