DIY Kitchen remodel, cost?

[WisJim]

Lots of granite countertops around here, which is a good thing, as that is my son's business. And he is busy.

The wife and I were just talking about kitchens, cabinets, etc., and how they have changed over the years, from kitchens with a sink, stove, and table, no cabinets at all except maybe a Hoosier cupboard type, and maybe a small pantry, to today's kitchen with googads of cabinets, but probably have less cooking done than the old poorly equipped kitchens had going on daily.

 

[jar944]

There was a switch from lower cabinets to pulls... We did our kitchen that way. Obviously you can't do it up top, but most of our kitchen below the counter is pull drawers. It's easier on you ergonomically, if we have to justify....

Lower drawer stacks are still cabinets (and arguably cupboards) though.

 

[dcg9381]

Lower drawer stacks are still cabinets (and arguably cupboards) though.

The difference in ergonomics is that I can roll the drawer out and get to something in the "back"... Beats bending over and having to reach, especially if you're tall. And old.

 

[jonesg]

This was a more recent architectural style thing. Looks great to me. But my **** gets firmly kicked out of designing the kitchen.



Quartz, granite, silestone - buyers choice.

Here's the one that I had done. Cabinet guy was one of the best contractors I've ever worked with. Lighting is mine.



These were designed in CAD with a 3d rendering.

thats what its all about, selling the latest **** to consumers who don't know what kitchen design is about.

 

[paredown]

I've been curious about the companies that sell premade cabinet boxes to order, and then you decide on door style etc. I think I saw someone in Fine Homebuilding for whom this was his preferred way to work. You are starting with square cabinet boxes, and then doing your own plinth/leveling and interior build-out and cabinet doors. I think the outfit was www.cabparts.com

The other (relative) bargain out there are Ikea--decent premade/assemble yourself. I like the new version of these less than the last (Akurum) but they are decent Euro style cabinets with good hardware. There is a limited menu for fill pieces and stuff, but if you are willing to do some custom work on modifying their trim pieces to work, you can get a nice Euro look for short money.

For our current kitchen, I used a combination of used kitchen we bought on Craigslist, and Ikea fill pieces and trim. We thought of it as a temporary kitchen, but here we are, going on 10 years and my lovely wife does not hate it, so I guess we'll continue to enjoy it. I had lots of water damage to repair, new floor, and some reconfiguration but I think all in it was less than $10,000...

 

[dcg9381]

thats what its all about, selling the latest **** to consumers who don't know what kitchen design is about.

Counter materials or the pull drawers instead of under-counter cabinets? Both make good sense to me.

Different people use kitchens different ways. I would not assume what a consumer wants to use in the kitchen. But if I was a home builder, I could probably figure out what's selling and market trends.

 

[jar944]

thats what its all about, selling the latest **** to consumers who don't know what kitchen design is about.

Please enlightening us on proper kitchen design

 

[Garcky]

I haven't seen a new build with anything but stone In a very long time. Median here is expensive though.

Yes. New gets better stuff. Remodels for homes going on the market don't, necessarily. Particularly at the lower end of the market. I sold my previous home here in St. Paul, MN, in 2021. No kitchen remodel. New range and fridge. Old counters. Cabinets repainted. Sold at the median price. We bought a 1974 townhouse close to the same price. Kitchen was original. Not everyone cares, actually.

There's a range. First time buyers buy what they buy. Downsizers do the same. There's more than one market out there.

 

[dcg9381]

I mean who has a kitchen without any cabinets

It's a more modern style. The first photo, obviously done for window reasons... But to each their own home (or kitchen).
Seems like it'd save a bunch of money.

 

[jar944]

It's a more modern style. The first photo, obviously done for window reasons... But to each their own home (or kitchen).
Seems like it'd save a bunch of money.

That kitchen is full of cabinets.

 

[jonesg]

Do you get out much? That's a pretty common residential kitchen layout.

Who buys a home these days that doesn't have stone countertops and an island.

residential kitchen design is done by people who have no idea how kitchens work.
You want a garage designed by a chef ?

Islands destroy flow in a kitchen, countertop with cupboards overhead are unusable except for storing clutter and gadgets.
Thats all for pretty appearances, but to the trained eye it doesn't look clever because it has no functional use.
If you put doors on your shelves you don't know what you've got.

 

[dcg9381]

That kitchen is full of cabinets.

I count two on this kitchen (first photo).

residential kitchen design is done by people who have no idea how kitchens work.

I'm good with that. I'd prefer to not know how the kitchen works.

Islands destroy flow in a kitchen, countertop with cupboards overhead are unusable except for storing clutter and gadgets.

Our island is our dinner table. We don't have a "formal dining" room. It gets a ton of use.
But you're right, I still don't know where things are in the upper cabinets. I do my best to keep it that way.

 

[jar944]

I count two on this kitchen (first photo).

Drawer base lower cabinets are cabinets.

 

[dcg9381]

Drawer base lower cabinets are cabinets.

Ahh. Here we call them drawers or pulls.

 

[jonesg]

Drawer base lower cabinets are cabinets.

bureaus are better left in the bedroom, clear everything away from the stove sides for better ongoing cleaning.
They try to cram as much **** into every cranny because thats what they're selling, they don't make money on functional work space.

 

[K13]

Ahh. Here we call them drawers or pulls.

A cabinet is the box. What is in the box drawers, shelves with doors etc doesn't change the fact its a cabinet.

 

[jonesg]

trying to upload a photo, doesn't want to go.

heres the working end of my kitchen, things to note.
6 feet x 4 foot stainless work table with storage shelf underneath.
No doors on the shelves to the right.
backsplash behind stove.
Both sides of stove accessible for cleaning.
3 bright work lights directly above work table, no subdued lighting. Critical lighting is err...critical.
It costs a lot less to do it to professional protocol than some "kitchen designers" at home depot.

 

[jar944]

residential kitchen design is done by people who have no idea how kitchens work.
You want a garage designed by a chef ?

Islands destroy flow in a kitchen, countertop with cupboards overhead are unusable except for storing clutter and gadgets.
Thats all for pretty appearances, but to the trained eye it doesn't look clever because it has no functional use.
If you put doors on your shelves you don't know what you've got.

If the only thing the kitchen is used for is food prep than maybe. You are trying to correlate commercial kitchen design with residential kitchens. A residential kitchens function is more than just food prep. Its possible to have a kitchen that literally never gets used for cooking.

I don't have a drive through pit in my garage since it's not a quick lube.. even though it would be faster for oil changes.

 

[jar944]

The difference in ergonomics is that I can roll the drawer out and get to something in the "back"... Beats bending over and having to reach, especially if you're tall. And old.

Right i agree 100%, I don't know anyone who prefers doors to drawers on lowers.

 

[jonesg]

If the only thing the kitchen is used for is food prep than maybe. You are trying to correlate commercial kitchen design with residential kitchens. A residential kitchens function is more than just food prep. Its possible to have a kitchen that literally never gets used for cooking.

I don't have a drive through pit in my garage since it's not a quick lube.. even though it would be faster for oil changes.

the trend ( for at least the past 20 years) has been to emulate pro kitchens.
Thats why we see these very pricey 12 burner stoves with dual convections underneath.

 

[jonesg]

If the only thing the kitchen is used for is food prep than maybe. You are trying to correlate commercial kitchen design with residential kitchens. A residential kitchens function is more than just food prep. Its possible to have a kitchen that literally never gets used for cooking.

I don't have a drive through pit in my garage since it's not a quick lube.. even though it would be faster for oil changes.

and if you decide a pit would be useful in your garage, do you want a cook to design it for you?

 

[Sumboodie]

Quartz or granite countertops are going to run around $100 sqft minimum. You can go slightly less for the highly undesirable colors.

May as well just use stainless at those prices.

 

[Sumboodie]

Do you get out much? That's a pretty common residential kitchen layout.

Who buys a home these days that doesn't have stone countertops and an island.

I've only been in 1 house with an island or stone counters.

I've always had plastic counters over wood, whatever that's called. Laminated counter? Has worked just fine.


Maybe some folks get excited over $1000 counters, I'd rather have $200 counters and $800 towards useful things.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I've only been in 1 house with an island or stone counters.

I've always had plastic counters over wood, whatever that's called. Laminated counter? Has worked just fine.


Maybe some folks get excited over $1000 counters, I'd rather have $200 counters and $800 towards useful things.

I'm willing to be that getting materials to Alaska makes it cost prohibitive, hence the lack of people using it.

$1000 for a countertop would be a dream. Only getting that inexpensive if you use butcherblock and install yourself.

 

[Wiz02]

The kitchen design trend that I don't understand is white cabinets, nearly white counter tops, backslashes and walls. Most homes that I have visited are far from "white glove" level clean and I am not even considering homes with small children. White looks dingy unless you are constantly cleaning and who has time for that today?

Not to mention that I can mess up an entire kitchen making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without even trying. God knows what SWBO would do to me if we had a white kitchen

 

[jar944]

the trend ( for at least the past 20 years) has been to emulate pro kitchens.
Thats why we see these very pricey 12 burner stoves with dual convections underneath.

Emulate as in the 8+ burner wolf and a sub-zero, that wolf likely never gets used. No one is covering their residential kitchens in stainless. Making it look like the a inside of a commercial kitchen is exactly the opposite of the typical goal, which is to look expensive. It's the entire reason for the two kitchen homes with a show kitchen and a second kitchen for actually preparing food.

Islands (no idea why you insist on calling them bureaus) are for storage, sitting, dancing gift wrapping, usually eating dinner and so on. They are the center of the kitchen because the kitchen is a entertainment space in modern design. Meal prep is low on the list of activities.

As for shelves vs cabinets, maybe you can't remember where things are, unless they are in front of you but I can. I can also tell you what drawer my 10mm socket is it. It's not a space where a new hire needs to visually see everything the day they show up for work. Not to mention open shelving is a great to collect dust on everything. There's a reason kitchens cabinets have had doors for about as long as cabinets have been in kitchens.

There is a reason people spend 100k+ on a residential kitchen, and it's not to better prepare meals.

I've only been in 1 house with an island or stone counters.

I've always had plastic counters over wood, whatever that's called. Laminated counter? Has worked just fine.


Maybe some folks get excited over $1000 counters, I'd rather have $200 counters and $800 towards useful things.

I'd guess the plastic counter is 1k+, stone is usually closer to 5-10k

May as well just use stainless at those prices.

Stainless would be considered the low rent/cheap option typically.

 

[Kpaige]

Our last house I’ve remodeled the kitchen around 2016 it was 25k but that was a lot of cabinets and it was all real wood and hickory fronts and cherry trim and crowns. Today I would hate to see the cost.
New house all it needed was countertops and friend owns an insert company so he put it all the fancy pull outs and such for the wife.

 

[Kuma601]

Back when we were going to do ours we visited a few of the kitchen designers to get some rough quotes. One guy said he doesn't turn on his computer unless it is going to be $100K+ job. We looked at his album and yes it was very nice in those $1.5M+ homes. It had no place in our $600K. We projected $35K but all the little updates for ball bearing and fill length extensions, baltic birch from MDF, quartz composite counter top was all stacked in. The floor also was done so in the end it was $18K over projected. Saved a bit by doing some of the trimming and hardware parts. In the end she was happy so well worth it and we've lived with it now for about 18 years. Still makes her happy except for the dying appliances. (We despise Bosch!)

I don't want to even think what it would cost now.

 

[bigdav160]

I have never worked in food service so I have no idea what a "professional kitchen" looks like. But if it looks hard to clean like the pic above I might not eat out

Posted before, I built this a dozen years ago in my 4500 sq.foot hacienda for $15k. I had to gut the hot wall to bring in NG and water. 2/3 of the cost was in appliances. Rough lumber purchased from a saw mill. Primary wood hickory and cherry as secondary. All drawers through dovetailed and blum soft close slides. I reused the oven and hand painted tiles.

 

[Garcky]

Many kitchen designs are really for show. Many people who own expensive homes with beautiful kitchens don't really cook much at all in them. They're for people to ooh and aww at when they are guests in those homes.

 

[ybnormal]

I have never worked in food service so I have no idea what a "professional kitchen" looks like. But if it looks hard to clean like the pic above I might not eat out

Posted before, I built this a dozen years ago in my 4500 sq.foot hacienda for $15k. I had to gut the hot wall to bring in NG and water. 2/3 of the cost was in appliances. Rough lumber purchased from a saw mill. Primary wood hickory and cherry as secondary. All drawers through dovetailed and blum soft close slides. I reused the oven and hand painted tiles.

all done by yourself? I imagine the cost would be triple if we had to pay for that kind of nice custom work.

 

[bigdav160]

all done by yourself? I imagine the cost would be triple if we had to pay for that kind of nice custom work.

The copper hood I purchased from Art of Rain. He made me a great deal. The copper sink, the faucets I scrounged from craigslist. The Corian sheets I caught on closeout. The spouse hated the wild grain the hickory so she insisted on the milk paint. The vintage swag lamps over the sink and the power vent were from eBay. All other labor was done by myself over the summer.

 

[Max]

I would hate to have a commercial kitchen in my home. As @jar944 notes, a kitchen in a house is a place where people _live_ and not just work at until they go home. For example, I’d absolutely hate the visual clutter and mess of open shelves. They are slightly more efficient - sure. But a mess to the eyes all day long. And it’s not like it’s rocket science to know where you put stuff.

I am not a big time kitchen designer. And I’ve never worked in a commercial kitchen, although I have helped in one at a fellowship lodge. But I do know that we do much more in our kitchen than cook - we eat, laugh, visit, drink, relax, and read. And yes we cook - all of our meals are from scratch and we may eat out once a month so our kitchen gets a lot of use. Not everyone wants or needs a commercial kitchen - grant us the grace to enjoy ours our way just as we grant the same to you…

 

[Dakotadadv8]

Good DIY projects did it twice, 27 years ago after moving in and again 5 years ago. If you are really ambitious make your own cabinets, nice to have table saw and router.

 

[Max]

Good DIY projects did it twice, 27 years ago after moving in and again 5 years ago. If you are really ambitious make your own cabinets, nice to have table saw and router.

I’d add a track saw as well as they are awesome in accurately breaking down sheets of plywood.

 

[dcg9381]

Many kitchen designs are really for show. Many people who own expensive homes with beautiful kitchens don't really cook much at all in them. They're for people to ooh and aww at when they are guests in those homes.

I've done 3 kitchens. I'll be transparent about the costs.

Kitchens sell houses though... Much more than garages do, so as much as I use the garage more, I'm aware that I'll eventually need to sell the house.

---

Shop Kitchen (DIY)
This is my "shop kitchen" - which was our stepping stone (we lived in the shop for 1-2 years). Fully DIY, my first plumbing jobs, gas lines all of it. These cabinets are HD "off the shelf" stuff - Hampton Bay. The counter is Laminate, cost about $225 after you iron-on the end caps. Sink and fixtures are China.

Total in the counter and kitchen cabinets? Maybe $2500 (no appliances). We used "induction" plates to cook on if we were not grilling. All my labor though.

---

Apartment Kitchen:
This is the 2nd kitchen that I designed. It's a rental apartment. You'll notice that there is no stove or oven. Cooking is done by induction plates that are stored in drawers, we copied that off our shop lifestyle. If you need to bake, we installed a convection microwave. The idea is to maximize the bar area. These were what I'd call "mid-grade builder" cabinets. They were installed for me, but the hardware on them is slightly better than the **** from home depot. Fit and finish was good, but I had to make some "post contractor" adjustments and had 2-3 call backs.. Maybe $5-7k in cabinet costs, but it's a small kitchen. Counters were $3k in quartz.

---

House kitchen (posted earlier).
Cabinets were $25k. Hand built, custom designed for the space, so no lego cabinets.. Not solid hardwood, boxes are tongue and groove plywood. High end hardware. I went with a recommendation from a family member who is a professional wood worker and knows the other local craftsmen. Best damn contractor I ever worked with, hands down in terms of planning, precision, and attention to detail.

Counters were $8k (granite). Granite shop made multiple screw ups, had to provide a 2nd slab, ended up installing a larger sink because they don't understand orientation and had to cut a bigger hole... But they covered it - never pay any contractor up front.

To do "full hardwood" cabinets, expect 100%-200% more than what I've paid. Pulls were added later. Lighting was finished. Someone bused the glass on the induction stove, so I still need to fix that.

 

[TurnipTruck]

This lake house needed everything except a foundation. This is some of the kitchen transformation from 2015 to 2016:

As found:


As hoped:


Seven months later:

$14k for quartz, $14k for cupboards and cabinets, $14k for appliances.

I did everything except the counters. I could have done it quicker, but the floor needed reinforcement, the trusses needed repair, I had to reroof the entire house, every window and door got replaced, the plumbing, natural gas, and power needed a top to bottom replacement, and the boiler got relocated and modernized.

 

[jonesg]

I have never worked in food service so I have no idea what a "professional kitchen" looks like. But if it looks hard to clean like the pic above I might not eat out

Posted before, I built this a dozen years ago in my 4500 sq.foot hacienda for $15k. I had to gut the hot wall to bring in NG and water. 2/3 of the cost was in appliances. Rough lumber purchased from a saw mill. Primary wood hickory and cherry as secondary. All drawers through dovetailed and blum soft close slides. I reused the oven and hand painted tiles.

its the opposite way around, pro health inspectors would shut you down because its not possible to clean properly.

 

[Max]

its the opposite way around, pro health inspectors would shut you down because its not possible to clean properly.

Wow - you’re really reaching. Except for maybe the one small wood surface area his counters all look easy to clean.

And this would be opposed to commercial kitchens that get poorly rated/closed for rodents, insects, lack of cleaning, improper food storage, and improper tossing of old/bad food.

 

[bigdav160]

Good DIY projects did it twice, 27 years ago after moving in and again 5 years ago. If you are really ambitious make your own cabinets, nice to have table saw and router.

Plus a jointer, planer, wide drum sander, shaper and dovetail jig