Do all air source heat pumps ****?

[kwschumm]

We're planning a new house build and need a conventional ducted heat pump, preferably with separate upstairs and downstairs zones.

Online brand reviews are terrible. All the major brands, like Trane, American Standard, Carrier, Rheem, etc., are being slammed with horrifying reliability. Consumer Reports reliability ratings show that their top five brands are reporting ~25% failures within three years of installation, which is pathetic.

Recognizing that people who have problems are over represented on any reliability survey, I'm asking the HVAC techs here - are new heat pumps really that bad? How does someone go about selecting a reliable system? For us reliability is the most important thing but looking at reviews online makes it seem like reliable products are simply not available, for any price.

At this point the best I can think of is to shop for the best dealer and best warranty and forget about brands entirely.

 

[Gerald O]

Heat pumps ****.

On one side.

And blow on the other.

That figure for 25% failure rate on top brands is highly doubtful. I'll wager that most early failures are due more to installation workmanship defects rather than the equipment itself.

 

[vavet]

Here's a potential gotcha on building a new house. This happened to a few people in my subdivision. The builder negotiates a lower price with the supplier in exchange for a reduced or non-existent warranty, figuring they will warranty the unit with the house warranty, usually for a year.
One problem arises if the builder goes out of business.
A second problem is the shortened warranty period. I don't recall what the typical warranty on a heat pump is, but I believe it's more than a year. After that 1 year period that the builder covers everything on the house- you're on your own. You don't get a factory warranty on the heat pump because the builder negotiated it away.

 

[kwschumm]

Here's a potential gotcha on building a new house. This happened to a few people in my subdivision. The builder negotiates a lower price with the supplier in exchange for a reduced or non-existent warranty, figuring they will warranty the unit with the house warranty, usually for a year.
One problem arises if the builder goes out of business.
A second problem is the shortened warranty period. I don't recall what the typical warranty on a heat pump is, but I believe it's more than a year. After that 1 year period that the builder covers everything on the house- you're on your own. You don't get a factory warranty on the heat pump because the builder negotiated it away.

Good to know, thanks! It's a custom home so I can specify the HVAC contractor. Some warranties (like Trane) don't cover labor at all. It seems all should cover labor for at least a year but they're dumping it on the dealer to warranty labor (or not).

 

[metlmunchr]

Here's a potential gotcha on building a new house. This happened to a few people in my subdivision. The builder negotiates a lower price with the supplier in exchange for a reduced or non-existent warranty, figuring they will warranty the unit with the house warranty, usually for a year.
One problem arises if the builder goes out of business.
A second problem is the shortened warranty period. I don't recall what the typical warranty on a heat pump is, but I believe it's more than a year. After that 1 year period that the builder covers everything on the house- you're on your own. You don't get a factory warranty on the heat pump because the builder negotiated it away.

What's described here is basically impossible. The manufacturer warrants the unit to the end purchaser. A dealer is not an agent of the manufacturer and therefore has no authority to bind the manufacturer to any terms outside those of the stated warranty, nor does he have the power to negotiate the warranty away.

A more likely scenario is a builder using an unlicensed jackleg to do the installation. Warranty terms require the unit be started up and checked out by a licensed contractor else there is no warranty on the equipment.

No contractor with enough brains to get in out of a shower of rain has any interest in starting up a system installed by someone else. Basically, liability for a proper installation attaches to the contractor at that point, and as a contractor you're better off to go fishing or drink beer than to buy into that sort of liability for the relatively few bucks involved. So, the net result is a system with no warranty.

 

[brewchief]

I'd bet a lot of the failures were indoor coils, pretty much every brand has had issues with them in the last few years. I work for a Lennox dealer and we have changed a lot of coils in the last few years, Lennox has switched to aluminum indoor coils that are said to fix the problem, I've yet to see a failure in one of the new coils so it looks positive.


A lot of brands require the equipment to be registered online by the owner, with Lennox equipment this changes the parts warranty from 5 years to 10 years for the original owner. It is not uncommon to find equipment of all brands that was never registered and the owner has to foot the bill rather then the manufacturer, for that reason we as a dealer register all the equipment we sell for the buyer rather then relying on them to do it.


Builders will often use the cheapest equipment they can, many people will see a big brand and think they have top of the line equipment but every manufacturer has multiple lines of equipment, right now Lennox has 6 different gas furnaces that are 93% efficient or higher.

Warranty can be different from model to model within a brand, a value priced furnace made for the new construction market may have a lesser warranty just to keep the price down a few bucks.

 

[danski0224]

At this point the best I can think of is to shop for the best dealer and best warranty and forget about brands entirely.

Most important: The airflow has to be correct, and the ductwork must be properly sized.

(1) Installation quality trumps brand, every time.

(2) High end dealer recognition has more to do with quantity of boxes sold than quality of installation.

(3) My air source heat pump works just fine.

Newer multi stage inverter based models may offer more heating output at a lower outdoor temperature.

Garden variety two stage units offer a way to gain heating capacity without oversizing the cooling capacity.

The airflow has to be correct, and the ductwork must be properly sized.

A variable speed fan is recommended, but the airflow and duct sizing has to be within the equipment specs in order to realize the claimed increase in energy efficiency. That means that your total external static pressure (TESP) needs to be no more than 0.5" wc (spec for most residential furnaces), and the TESP includes restrictions imposed by the AC coil (wet and dry), all ductwork and the air filter. Yeah, that means that 4 tons of air moving through a purple 3M pleated filter won't work when the filter is new, much less 120 days out because the package says it's good for 90 days...

The airflow has to be correct, and the ductwork must be properly sized.

 

[acmikee]

I take it that natural gas is not available. propane prices in Olympia right now are $1.09 and last December I paid $1.99....so your only option is a heat pump but you could get a hybred system a heat pump with a propane furnace. program the tstat so the propane only comes on below 40deg. most contractors will warranty for one year parts and labor mfg will be 5 or 10yrs on the compressor.

 

[kwschumm]

Yeah, no natural gas. Propane is reasonable but the plan is to use it for hot water, cooktop, and to fire the generator during outages (in the boonies). I looked at the hybrid systems and am considering it cost depending. I did not know propane was that cheap these days, last time I bought propane it was $2.85/gal!

 

[ForceFed70]

It's not just heat pumps.

Got me a Lennox high efficiency furnace with central air installed back in 2011. Had it fail every year requiring warranty repair except last year. None due to installer error.

Let me see if I can remember why:
-2x condensate drain problems. Seems it's a poor design. They put in an updated drain tray with larger outlet - seems to have fixed it.
- Limit switch failed.
- Gas valve failed
- Ignition strip failed.

Bought the Lennox for the name - might as well try a Goodman next time.

 

[yeldogt]

I have been using Carrier in my places since for the past 15 years with no problems. Carrier used to sell a factory warranty that covered all parts and labor for 10 years. They stopped doing so a few years back as did every other brand ... I believe Goodman recently revived the factory warranty on labor (maybe only with Amana). Most cover parts for 10-12 years .. and heat exchangers for 20 prorated. One year labor.

As to furnace or straight HP --- it's a question of electric cost and gas cost. Normally with NG available having a furnace is the way to go. With propane it's a question of your electric costs.

My new build will have a propane boiler for radiant and HW -- so I'm going to add a fan coil to the VS HP. The newer VS HP can run in very cold weather -- it's all a question of getting the correct unit and the cost to run vs propene.

I would also consider zoning -- both of my newest builds are zoned HP's. The new VS systems are able to modulate to the whole building need -- sending what's needed to the proper areas. The systems actually learn the ductwork and ramp up and down accordingly. My new build will have a zoned system for the 3500 sf of the main dwelling -- buy one better unit vs two. Also -- don't install one in the attic unless you do an "conditioned" attic.

Most do two systems because it's easy -- not because it's better.

 

[acmikee]

the propane is only this cheap because one neighbors did a group buy. I checked and another company wanted $1.50. luckily I own my tank so I can shop around

 

[kwschumm]

I'm considering a zoned system, had one before (3 zones, 3 stories) which worked fine except for the upstairs master walk-in closet which was always hot or cold (inadequate air supply to it).

On the last house build an independent HVAC engineer (and friend) designed and sized the system, including register locations, duct sizes, returns, even cfm per supply register. I interviewed contractors, checked references, and found a dealer that checked out. The contractor verbally agreed to follow the specified design but didn't put it on the contract and I ASSumed they would do what they said (my mistake). When the installers showed up on site they completely ignored the design and the system was a cluster f*ck that was never right.

So, as I interview companies to see if they do quality work, what are some good questions to ask? I know about licenses, insurance, bonds, etc. I researched some good questions online and most were a joke. "What size equipment is right for your house". "How efficient a system do I need?". "What are the best brands?". Bleh. I'm more interested in technical questions that gauge the quality of their designs and installations.

danski0224 above (thanks!) gave some good technical information that leads to good questions. What are others?

 

[yeldogt]

VS equipment has changed the way zoning is done. You no longer need bypass dumps and the like because the system is able to lower it's capacity and CFM. When designing ductwork today you need to make sure the zone can handle all the air when the system is running at it's lowest setting. Previous, with single speed units every zone needed to be able to take full capacity or be dumped back into the return. With proper zoning your ductwork will be smaller -- it's for this reason that retrofitting a zoned VS unit into a house with bad ductwork can often make a huge improvement.

The zones are normally done at 120 x the lowest capacity of the unit. After a proper load is taken for the building and each room the next step is to see the required CFM's needed to each room ... it's all question of doing the homework. The duct work is designed to deliver the CFM's. You can also set up a slave ... my lower office can't command the unit to turn on because the zone is too small -- so the system only runs this when another zone is also running. The system knows to send more are when the office is calling so the other zone has what's requires.

Finding a person willing and able to install a complex system is the problem -- most guys install simple systems ... many don't even want to get involved. You have to ask -- my new build is in a well to do area and the best guy around works mostly by himself .. installs almost nothing but high end systems.

 

[manwithtools]

Most important: The airflow has to be correct, and the ductwork must be properly sized.

(1) Installation quality trumps brand, every time.

(2) High end dealer recognition has more to do with quantity of boxes sold than quality of installation.

(3) My air source heat pump works just fine.

Newer multi stage inverter based models may offer more heating output at a lower outdoor temperature.

Garden variety two stage units offer a way to gain heating capacity without oversizing the cooling capacity.

The airflow has to be correct, and the ductwork must be properly sized.

A variable speed fan is recommended, but the airflow and duct sizing has to be within the equipment specs in order to realize the claimed increase in energy efficiency. That means that your total external static pressure (TESP) needs to be no more than 0.5" wc (spec for most residential furnaces), and the TESP includes restrictions imposed by the AC coil (wet and dry), all ductwork and the air filter. Yeah, that means that 4 tons of air moving through a purple 3M pleated filter won't work when the filter is new, much less 120 days out because the package says it's good for 90 days...

The airflow has to be correct, and the ductwork must be properly sized.

Thank you, this might be one of the best post's I've ever read in relation to HVAC topics. I'm no expert, but I've done my share of research on this topic. I've also installed 7 units at home and at our business, doing everything but the refrigerant charge if required. My experience exactly mirrors your comments.

 

[MushCreek]

Our heat pump in FL was an American Standard. At the time, they were made by Trane. It performed flawlessly for years, and A/C gets used a LOT in FL. In our new house in SC, I used two Mitsubishi mini-splits, and they are amazing. 27 SEER, and virtually silent, inside and out. It helps that our new house is very well insulated and sealed, and there's no ductwork in the hot attic. They heat down to -13 F., so we're good year-round.

 

[383]

Finding a person willing and able to install a complex system is the problem -- most guys install simple systems ... many don't even want to get involved.

And being willing to pay the difference. Many people go with the low bid and get what they pay for.

I built a house and the owner had a buddy install the HVAC to save a couple of grand. Turns out he sized the unit too big, and it didn't run enough in cooling to get rid of the humidity. Mold issues forced a complete system replacement just a couple of years after the house was built. Unit worked fine, it was completely an installation problem.

I had another customer call me this summer during a thunderstorm saying she had a bad roof leak. When I went up in the attic, the drain pan under the air handler was full and running over. The low bid installer didn't run a drain from the unit, only a drain from the drain pan and something plugged the line.

Most people don't realize that quality of design and installation is as important as quality of equipment, but that is the first thing that is usually missing with the low bid. Good luck finding a good contractor.

 

[Jackfre]

I just visited my old business partner back east and he remodeled an old house on the coast. He went with a 4 ton mini-split set-up. Single condenser with up to eight assorted types of evaporators. Very nice set-up. He used Fujitsu although Mitsubishi makes a similar system. In your area with the rebates, they should be worth a look.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Poor installation techniques may have something to do with it, but IMHO the major problem is technology. The more advanced things get, the larger the potential for failure. I have 18 buildings in my district. The old simple stuff with relays and thermostats works well. The new fancy units with microprocessors and solid state controls go down on almost a daily basis. If it were me, I'd get the most Plain-Jane standard type of unit available from a reputable manufacturer and have it installed by a company with a good history.

Tommy

 

[kwschumm]

I just visited my old business partner back east and he remodeled an old house on the coast. He went with a 4 ton mini-split set-up. Single condenser with up to eight assorted types of evaporators. Very nice set-up. He used Fujitsu although Mitsubishi makes a similar system. In your area with the rebates, they should be worth a look.

This is definitely the most efficient and functional way to go but the inside units are unattractive. I just don't care for the look. In a shop or garage, though, thumbs up.

 

[yeldogt]

Poor installation techniques may have something to do with it, but IMHO the major problem is technology. The more advanced things get, the larger the potential for failure. I have 18 buildings in my district. The old simple stuff with relays and thermostats works well. The new fancy units with microprocessors and solid state controls go down on almost a daily basis. If it were me, I'd get the most Plain-Jane standard type of unit available from a reputable manufacturer and have it installed by a company with a good history.

Tommy

Depending on the house.

There are many simple mid sized homes that work well with a 3T AC and 80k furnace -- proper ductwork. Simple adjustments with the registers or manual duct dampers.

I did a bunch of simple bungalows when I started out as well as city row homes -- all work fine with simple systems and controls .. better today with the lower capacity systems available.

Larger homes with great rooms -- high ceilings .... lots of windows. Big masters with large baths -- simple becomes difficult.

And the solution (stupid) with many development houses -- especially in NJ .. is to install a second system in the un conditioned attic ... really problematic and inefficient.

I have had little problem with my equipment == i'm sure it happens. Every manufacturer has had problems recently (last 10 years)

 

[jacob_coulter]

Almost every HVAC person I've talked to has said they don't make them like they used to and have a lot of problems.

I have a 20 plus year old unit that I would like to replace but I'm afraid I'm going to actually be going into a less reliable unit than my ancient one that has basically been perfect.

I remember replacing a 25 year old unit on a rental property that worked perfectly with a new one so I wouldn't have an issue, the first summer the new one went out. Replaced under warranty but the home was unlivable for a week until they could replace it.

 

[yeldogt]

Almost every HVAC person I've talked to has said they don't make them like they used to and have a lot of problems.

I have a 20 plus year old unit that I would like to replace but I'm afraid I'm going to actually be going into a less reliable unit than my ancient one that has basically been perfect.

I remember replacing a 25 year old unit on a rental property that worked perfectly with a new one so I wouldn't have an issue, the first summer the new one went out. Replaced under warranty but the home was unlivable for a week until they could replace it.

In some situations -- I agree. I had a 4T York AC at my home/office. It was pushing 30 years old and would make ice -- smooth and really not that loud. The problem was as I remodeled over the years the unit was getting oversized and did not run long enough to dehumidify .. when I remodeled again last year w/ foam going into places .....the load dropped again.

The new equipment uses thinner tubing for greater heat transfer as well as greater pressures -- plus nothing is built like years ago. The paint was still fine on that old unit.

 

[toyotadriver]

I have an air source heat pump combined with a propane furnace. New install in a newly built house. It produces heat down to 30* easily and then it switches over to propane below 30*. The air blowing out at 30* still feels warm.

If I had access to natural gas, I'd use a conventional AC with gas furnace. With no natural gas, I'd go with dual fuel propane/heat pump. We love ours. Works great. Keeps the house very comfortable.

Newer heat pumps work better than older ones. We had a heat pump in our last house. It was a Goodman and poorly installed (I had to fix some of the problems with the install). Other than replacing a capacitator about 5 years into owning it, it didn't give us any problems. It had supplemental resistance heating but still worked fine. It was pricy to run when the temps dropped though.

 

[Toomanytools?]

I installed a new Carrier when we moved into our current house, replaced the 30+ years Carrier unit. Had a 10 year parts and labor warranty as long as it was service ever year cost was about $120, to come out clean and check things out. Compressor failed at about 9 years 7 months which I guess was a problem with this model. Since it was on warranty I could replace compressor or buy a new unit for $1500, real cost was like $5000. I went with the new unit for 1500, kicker is doesn't have that 10 year as before only 1 year.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Depending on the house.

There are many simple mid sized homes that work well with a 3T AC and 80k furnace -- proper ductwork. Simple adjustments with the registers or manual duct dampers.

I did a bunch of simple bungalows when I started out as well as city row homes -- all work fine with simple systems and controls .. better today with the lower capacity systems available.

Larger homes with great rooms -- high ceilings .... lots of windows. Big masters with large baths -- simple becomes difficult.

And the solution (stupid) with many development houses -- especially in NJ .. is to install a second system in the un conditioned attic ... really problematic and inefficient.

I have had little problem with my equipment == i'm sure it happens. Every manufacturer has had problems recently (last 10 years)

I was referring to equipment failures, not performance problems. In terms of performance issues, residential is usually small stuff compared to some of the engineering nightmares I've dealt with.

Tommy

 

[taumac]

Ours heat pumps in Florida run most of the year. When I moved in my house in 2006 it had 2.5 ton unit that was still working well. Few years had a issue where it was removed to pour a slam on side of house. The guy that reinstalled it and lied about properly doing the job. We got a new upgraded 3 ton unit because of the deal. Its been running fine for over 10 years except a capacitor going bad. It was a $125 fix. Its Amana 15seer unit with matching air handler.

 

[danski0224]

Almost every HVAC person I've talked to has said they don't make them like they used to and have a lot of problems.

There's an almost equal amount of truth and ******** there.

Yeah, no one makes a forced air furnace like the 1950's lowboys with the cast iron 200k BTU burners and 75k BTU pilot light anymore... and if they did, very few could afford to buy the equipment, much less the assembly and installation.

Unfortunately, the high efficiency stuff needs to be installed properly, or else it won't work well or for long.

Airflow is the key issue for general performance and longevity. Almost every single residential duct installation is undersized. More flex monster BS systems are undersized. All ductwork installed before cooling became commonplace is undersized. All low bid cap and tap ductwork has poor airflow. A duct system can be properly sealed, yet flow air poorly.

The air conditioner will not work properly or deliver the rated SEER/EER without proper airflow, nor will it work if it isn't properly charged. The forgiving nature of a poorly installed beer can cold charged 8 SEER R22 system is gone. The AC systems are at a point where it needs to be done with a set of digital gauges that have a real time superheat and subcooling reading on the display.

The condensing furnace will not deliver claimed performance unless it (1) has proper airflow and (2) is tuned with a combustion analyzer. If a "high efficiency" furnace is connected to ductwork used by a standing pilot 1950's furnace, odds are that the ductwork will be undersized... especially if the new equipment is not sized properly.

Poor airflow and high TESP will (1) kill a variable speed blower motor and (2) cost you way more energy to run.

 

[danski0224]

And being willing to pay the difference. Many people go with the low bid and get what they pay for.

And therein lies the problem.

The customer typically does NOT know what they are getting because there is not a set of plans and specifications covering the job- there is only equipment brand, maybe sizing and a price.

On those 2 or 3 pieces of information, the homeowner is making a decision that costs thousands of dollars, could be impossible to fix later without major cosmetic disruption, and uses about 50% of all utility costs on an annual basis.

And the homeowner will invariably choose the cheapest price.

Those contractors that try to explain what the customer is getting are often met with glazed over eyes and then asked why are you $1000.00 more (or even $50 more) than Joe Hack. Because of this, a contractor doesn't want to provide a detailed listing or specifications that are given to Joe Hack. On jobs that I have lost to Joe Hack, I have NEVER been given a copy of the other proposal after asking for it nicely.

There are sooooooo many corners to cut, the homeowner will not know about it until it is too late, or the system fails due to poor installation.

 

[danski0224]

A lot of brands require the equipment to be registered online by the owner, with Lennox equipment this changes the parts warranty from 5 years to 10 years for the original owner. It is not uncommon to find equipment of all brands that was never registered and the owner has to foot the bill rather then the manufacturer, for that reason we as a dealer register all the equipment we sell for the buyer rather then relying on them to do it.

Why register the equipment for the homeowner, as long as the homeowner is capable of doing it on their own?

This makes no sense.

I provide model and serial numbers and specific instructions (provided by the manufacturer on the warranty page) after payment. If the homeowner neglects to register it, it's on them.

 

[danski0224]

What are others?

Ask what micron reading must be reached per the installation instructions when the vacuum is pulled. Then ask them what equipment is being used to take the reading.

Typical residential systems are 450 microns.

If you can't get an answer from either question, then you know who not to use.

Ask them if they braze the lineset joints or if they use soft solder. Should be brazed.

Ask them if they use a carbon dioxide* purge when brazing.

*That's a fooler question. If they say yes, run. If they say no, we use a nitrogen purge- not carbon dioxide, then you are one step closer.

Ask if they will perform a load calculation once the contract is accepted to verify proper equipment sizing.

Does the prospective contractor ask if there are any rooms that are difficult to heat or cool?

Does the contractor ask what type of air filter you want?

 

[brewchief]

Why register the equipment for the homeowner, as long as the homeowner is capable of doing it on their own?

This makes no sense.

I provide model and serial numbers and specific instructions (provided by the manufacturer on the warranty page) after payment. If the homeowner neglects to register it, it's on them.

Couple of reasons, number one we have a lot of older customers that don't have internet or are only using it for emails that they don't check and looking at their grandkids on facebook.

Number two is if a service tech is there after hours he has no idea if it was registered, by registering it we know that parts will be covered and if he looks at the sticker on the furnace he can see if maintenance has been done, if it has then the repair is covered 100%.

 

[jacob_coulter]

There's an almost equal amount of truth and ******** there.

Yeah, no one makes a forced air furnace like the 1950's lowboys with the cast iron 200k BTU burners and 75k BTU pilot light anymore... and if they did, very few could afford to buy the equipment, much less the assembly and installation.

Unfortunately, the high efficiency stuff needs to be installed properly, or else it won't work well or for long.

Airflow is the key issue for general performance and longevity. Almost every single residential duct installation is undersized. More flex monster BS systems are undersized. All ductwork installed before cooling became commonplace is undersized. All low bid cap and tap ductwork has poor airflow. A duct system can be properly sealed, yet flow air poorly.

The air conditioner will not work properly or deliver the rated SEER/EER without proper airflow, nor will it work if it isn't properly charged. The forgiving nature of a poorly installed beer can cold charged 8 SEER R22 system is gone. The AC systems are at a point where it needs to be done with a set of digital gauges that have a real time superheat and subcooling reading on the display.

The condensing furnace will not deliver claimed performance unless it (1) has proper airflow and (2) is tuned with a combustion analyzer. If a "high efficiency" furnace is connected to ductwork used by a standing pilot 1950's furnace, odds are that the ductwork will be undersized... especially if the new equipment is not sized properly.

Poor airflow and high TESP will (1) kill a variable speed blower motor and (2) cost you way more energy to run.

I'm not talking about the "bleeding edge" type equipment that nobody was building decades ago. Obviously that's going to have all sort of issues with the added complexity.

I'm talking about just the basics like coils that leak because they were manufactured in Mexico or China using ****** materials and quality control.

 

[Stuff]

I thought of a different problem: How do you vet an installer when the sales guy is not the tech that does installs? Would you ask them to have a tech with them during the sales pitch?

 

[jade97]

Couple of reasons, number one we have a lot of older customers that don't have internet or are only using it for emails that they don't check and looking at their grandkids on facebook.

Number two is if a service tech is there after hours he has no idea if it was registered, by registering it we know that parts will be covered and if he looks at the sticker on the furnace he can see if maintenance has been done, if it has then the repair is covered 100%.

I have this situation myself...

My house is just over 2 years old and the builder has/had a plumbing & HVAC company. This week, while I was away on business, the wife found the ac line encased in ice and water all over the basement floor. Texted the builder & one of his guys called the wife recommending a local HVAC guy. While going through the system, called York and found the system was never registered. He also found the HVAC paperwork stuff between the ductwork. Lost a 10 year warranty.

It needed 10 lbs of freon.

Hoping the builder can persuade York into reinstating the warranty at a start date of 2 years ago.....if he even responds. This is the only issue I have had with this builder & will be troubled if I don't get any response.

 

[Gila Monster]

I had this happen myself, I specifically asked the installer if I needed to register my unit online, he said no. Looked it up and he was incorrect. I did it myself. I can't imagine how angry I would be if I lost a warranty over something like that, fortunately I did it myself and got verified for the warranty and put it away in a safe place.

I'm not sure what the "game" here is, but I could see a whole lot of consumers getting screwed as most people aren't used to registering something they paid a professional to install for them.

 

[acmikee]

the serial number give the mfg date that will be your warranty start date if its not registered. with that number they can tell when and where the unit was sold

 

[jade97]

the serial number give the mfg date that will be your warranty start date if its not registered. with that number they can tell when and where the unit was sold

So should I go online and register it now? The tech that actually fixed it last week said the York site was showing the warranty expiring this year. I assume they are going by a mfg date for the default 5 years.

 

[Gerald O]

I... This week, while I was away on business, the wife found the ac line encased in ice and water all over the basement floor. ...
It needed 10 lbs of freon.
.

And probably needed the clogged air filter changed.

 

[jade97]

And probably needed the clogged air filter changed.

Negative - I am religious about changing my filters. Most of the time you wouldn't be able to tell the difference from the 'old' one to the new one.

The only reason this one needed to be changed is that it was soaked........