Do I Need Air Impact Wrench

[bull_duck]

I am having a problem removing the brake rotor disks from the wheels of my 2008 Road Glide. They might be held with Lock-Tight.

I tried my regular ratchet and big arm bolt breaker. Neither worked and my torx bit twisted.

Off to Sears and bought a torx bit with a "lifetime" Warrenty. Attached my air ratchet and snapped my new torx bit in two.

What to do. I have a good offer on new tires for my Harley. But my tires must be brought to the shop without rotors.

 

[k-os]

Have you tried applying some heat to the head of the bolt? If it was put on with red loc-tite the only reliable way to loosen it up is to head the bolt and break the loc-tites bond.

 

[bull_duck]

Have you tried applying some heat to the head of the bolt? If it was put on with red loc-tite the only reliable way to loosen it up is to head the bolt and break the loc-tites bond.

Good suggestion.,
How is the heat to be administered? Butane blowtorch which I have, or cigerete lighter which I use for heat shrink tubing?

 

[ATC]

A small torch would be the best. The lighter doesn't put out enough heat fast enough, and in a small enough concentrated area IMO.

 

[zkling]

So are the rotors held on by a torx head bolt? Are they corroded?

Heat is usually my last resort, next to a welder. Do you have a hand impact tool? I would try that before I applied much heat.

 

[jjjrmx5]

I'm never hesitant to go with a hand held propane torch unless the fasteners are all extremely pretty. But off's still gotta mean off.

Next step up is MAPP gas on the same trigger unit and then the O/A torch.

By O/A time that mofo is coming off one way or the other.

I love my hand impacts but they often do need help with some heat as well.

 

[bull_duck]

So are the rotors held on by a torx head bolt? Are they corroded?

Heat is usually my last resort, next to a welder. Do you have a hand impact tool? I would try that before I applied much heat.

Not corroded, hence my hypothesis regarding LocTite. I do not have a hand impact tool.
Rotors are held on by T45 toro head bolts.

 

[zkling]

Not corroded, hence my hypothesis regarding LocTite. I do not have a hand impact tool.

If it is a steel bolt in an aluminum wheel, it may have galvanic corrosion on the inside. Additionally the heating / cooling cycles of the brake may cause it to be really in there.

It may be time to invest in ($25 at sears, USA, lifetime) or borrow a hand impact driver, especially if it is a torx head. The impact is much different than a constant torque wrench / breaker bar. The sharp rasp of the impact is what you need to break the fastener free.

Also try a shot of PB blaster or Kroil

 

[RCStocker]

You might want to try the weight room first. LOL No one needs an impact as long as you have the proper werench or socket set.

 

[shockwave]

I would try an impact screwdriver with a torx bit. As an imact wrench will strip heads and the u will have to break out the punches and manually unsrew with punches. And heating up with a torch will help aswell but a impact screwdriver and a bfh u are set

 

[bcradio]

You might want to try the weight room first. LOL No one needs an impact as long as you have the proper werench or socket set.

spoken like a true novice... unless it doesn't matter if you shear the bolt head off

 

[firebox40dash5]

You might want to try the weight room first. LOL No one needs an impact as long as you have the proper werench or socket set.

No offense meant, but have you, uh, worked on vehicles?

There's tons of applications where an impact will make speedy work of something that would be a total PITA by hand. Whether that's because it's not trying to rotate the piece you're working on (lug nuts) or because you're not trying to apply torque 3" past the end of the fastener (those awful GM Torx caliper pins). And the impact action breaks stuff loose that would normally strip the head, like P3 rotor screws.

I've got little doubt there's red Loctite on those rotor screws. IIRC they usually aren't torqued very tight, but are always crazy tight to remove. I'd hit the head with the micro torch, to minimize the chance of messing up the wheel finish.

 

[zkling]

You might want to try the weight room first. LOL No one needs an impact as long as you have the proper werench or socket set.

Talk about a useless post.
Yes, OP. Go train for a few months in the weight room and then come back to your problem. Great solution.

Technically a 5 year old could remove lug nuts if he/she had a long enough lever arm.

The issue with torx and other internal screwdriver type bits is the camming action they will undergo with high rotational loads.

When you use a hand impact you are exerting a axial force as well as a rotational force. The axial force keeps the bit securely locked into the fastener while the rotational force is applied and twists the fastener loose.

Your torx bit twisted due to a sustained load from the breaker bar. Where as an impact give high impulse loads over a very short period of time.

 

[jjjrmx5]

Not corroded, hence my hypothesis regarding LocTite. I do not have a hand impact tool.
Rotors are held on by T45 toro head bolts.

Yep.

First PB Blast.

Then heat if red Loctite. If red then heat is "Totally" necessary.

No way around that.

Maybe new fasteners in the end but new rotors only if worn out.



Remember folks, an air impact hammers on the fastener head so if improperly torqued or using the wrong (if any) locker means beating up the fastener head before the threaded body to remove it.

 

[bull_duck]

Thanks those with useful comments.

Amusing:
1.Strength - though 66, I am fortunate to have the bio-stats of onein their mid 20s. Not that it is relevant, I do have an exercise room in my house that I use regularly. I have never had the need for an impact wrench, and I don't buy tools that I don't need.
2. Background - I do most of my own work on my 3 Harley's and Porsche. No offense taken btw. Don't mistake me for someone that gives a s#%^
3. If you don't know the answer to the question, and you cannot provide the answer in a clear concise manner, then just shut the f}#%^ up, and yield forum space to someone with information and knows how to use the information.

 

[bull_duck]

I have used my small butane to heat. I heated, but not to what I thought would cause the metal rotors to warp. Torx bolts still on solid.

I do not want to use the tapping screw approach, but might need to do so.

 

[zkling]

I would really go with the hand impact driver. $25 will save you lots of frustration and possible stripped screws.

P.S. Don't get too worked up over the responses. Some folks are just that way. You will notice a pattern of who they are.

 

[firebox40dash5]

The hand impact really can be great for an application like this. For one, smacking the **** out of the screw can help loosen it. Two, in addition to the turning force, you're hitting it hard with a hammer, helping to prevent stripping.

I swear by electric or air impacts, but for something like this (like those Honda rotor bolts) even I break out the hand impact and the BFH.

 

[diesel research]

hand impact or air impact is best options.

Along with this:

before you write it off as pretentious or over glorified, consider the fact it really is stronger.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=680902&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[Murphy4570]

Impact driver is the cat's meow for stuff like that. Use a big hammer and smack it like a red headed step child.

 

[Rico.]

Use a big hammer and smack it like a red headed step child.

 

[crewchief888]

little bit of heat, hand impact driver, and a quality torx bit, like the SO gold bit seen above.

and they probably do have a drop of loctite on them from the factory

 

[DirtRoad]

**** run down to HF and pick up a earthquake 1/2 drive impact wrench. Hopefully you have one.

You will see victory after a few minutes when you get home.

 

[bull_duck]

Then the answer to my question is "yes."

I wanted confirmation on buying a tool which I had previously considered of little value to me in my weekend garage.

Thanks for the helpful comments.

 

[customh]

I'd take note of the suggestions to use the hand impact like the Craftsman Impact Driver that you hit with a hammer. Will do more good than an air impact in this case.

 

[wise]

If it is indeed red loc-tite, if you use an impact you can actually damage the threads. As much as it might hurt putting a torch to your wheels, it might be the only way to safely get them off.

I say safely because if you damage the threads, and don't realize it, they *could* work there way loose on a ride, or totally strip out upon re-installation, and you'd have to heli-coil them.

That said, the only way it would be red loc-tite is if someone else in between factory and you getting the bike added it at some point, so it's improbable, but never say never.

Impact Drivers are handy to have around, especially if you own a somewhat older vehicle, or pieces of equipment that are exposed to the weather. In a pinch you can just put a cheap-o torx socket on the fastener, and give it a strong tap a few times with a hammer, and they will usually turn out pretty easily after that (breaks the rust/galvanic seal between the threads).

But yeah, if you suspect red loc-tite, use extreme caution especially if the bolt is mated to aluminium!

 

[pop pop]

Good suggestion.,
How is the heat to be administered? Butane blowtorch which I have, or cigerete lighter which I use for heat shrink tubing?

Checked my 03 shop manual and no mention of locktite is made. Torque to tighten is 16 - 24#. Manual does state to use NEW bolts if the disc is removed. Loctite is recommeded for the axle bolt.

 

[theknurl]

hand impact and a big brass hammer

remember the impact is axial and then it rotates

if it has #271 on it the bolt/wheel needs heat too

i have 2 Swench wrenches and air impacts but they're not needed here

the impact pushes the bolt in, releasing friction

 

[TwoInch]

rcstocker and the OP are both thinking impact wrench i believe, and not an impact driver. in impact wrench is not what is needed here.

OP, you can get a $9.99 impact driver from menards or Harbor Freight even cheaper. they absolutely will work for your application. no need to buy a craftsman or snap on if it will be rarely used.

 

[cryan]

Soak the thing in diesel or spray with WD40 and leave overnight then try again, you might be surprised.
Thread locker is a great thing if people use it correctly, ie, they place a small drop on the first two threads. When they coat the bolt in the stuff it becomes a problem. however I've never seen it break tools.
I would be careful about heating brake disks as they might warp.

 

[acdeucey]

At around 100,000 miles I replaced the rotors on my Deuce. Like you, I couldn't get the bolts out. Twisted the torx bit too.

Finally gave up and took the wheels to my local Harley dealer and one of the mechanics zipped the bolts off with an air wrench in about 30 seconds. He also installed my new rotors, but I don't recall for certain if he used Loctite. I think he did.

Good luck.

Don

 

[Zrexxer]

I had the same kind of hell getting the rotors off a Ducati, and yes they were certainly loctited in at the factory. They were hex heads instead of torx, but I twisted a Snap On hex driver up like a candy cane with an impact wrench. Finally had to focus concentrated heat from an oxyacetylene torch on the bolt heads to get them out.

 

[jethro29]

hand impact driver is the way to go.

 

[padronanniversary]

my ducati as well was red loctited down. Used a hand impact driver and two good hits and it came off.

 

[F16CrewChief]

A quick impact tool would be to place your torx socket on a 6" extension and hit the extension that way. The blow to the extension would travel into the screw to help loosening it. But that's just to try, if all else fails, go get the hand impact and be done with it. Then 6 months from now when you have another random stuck screw, you have the right tool!

 

[zkling]

Then the answer to my question is "yes."

I wanted confirmation on buying a tool which I had previously considered of little value to me in my weekend garage.

Thanks for the helpful comments.

Just to make sure we are clear here. Technically the answer to your question "Do I need air impact wrench" is NO. You do not need a "Air impact wrench" but instead a hand impact driver.

rcstocker and the OP are both thinking impact wrench i believe, and not an impact driver. in impact wrench is not what is needed here.

OP, you can get a $9.99 impact driver from menards or Harbor Freight even cheaper. they absolutely will work for your application. no need to buy a craftsman or snap on if it will be rarely used.

X2

An impact wrench is air or electric powered. A hand impact driver is powered by the blow of a hammer.

No smarta$$, just making sure we are all on the same page.

 

[G_P]

Hand impacts are invaluable when it comes to removing large screws and hex/torx fasteners.

If your torx bit is looking chewed up on the end grind it down so you have a good bite on the fastener. Seen many a bolt wrecked by damaged torx bits.

Sent from my C5120 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Olafur]

This is one way to do it:
http://www.baggersmag.com/tech/0701_hrbp_brake_bolt_removal/

 

[kunkernator]

Heat and hand impact driver.

Please make sure that you know the difference between a hand impact driver, and an impact wrench. The wrench can, and probably will screw up your bolt. The hand driver is the way to go.

 

[bull_duck]

Thise comments are very helpful. I will purchase both an air impact wrench and a Sears Craftsman manual impact driver.