Do people really care where tools are made

[RedneckWelder]

Snapon sublets their name out on those things...don't actually make them...like Mac and matco do on everything

AFAIK Mac is coming back to their own stuff. Stanley ownership looks to have been pretty good for them. Personally I'll buy Proto instead but if Mac keeps on making a recovery from the rebranding trap it'll be nice.

Matco, on the other hand...I don't know why anyone buys a lot of their stuff these days. I understand they make a couple of desirable items but much of thier stuff is rebranded from much cheaper sources.

 

[nicksnothereman]

since I'm not a professional I tend to buy tools based on a few things.
price
quality
frequency of use
country of manufacture

if its' a tool I will rarely use, price comes first. I rarely use an oil filter wrench, so I can't warrant the expense of buying the best.
if its' a tool that I use frequently, i'll spend more. I happen to own a 20 year old set of craftsman(made in the USA) sockets. they are still like new!

while I respect quality tools, I have had very good results from cheaper tools over the years.

Still...gotta be careful with what you buy. While I'm a "true believer" in cheap tools, I don't just look at the price and say "what the hell" unless it's really cheap (under 5 bucks, maybe less). I think weight is the most important thing when it comes to super cheap tools; if it's weighty (I don't care about something being light) there's a good chance it's going to be a fairly durable tool that I'll get good use of.

Okay...I buy too many what the hell tools but I rarely get burned, at this point it probably doesn't matter how durable my what the hell tools are because I've got plenty of them. ***** for the snap on driver but that's not my problem; as I've said if the price is service + warranty I'd easily pay 30% of what they're charging (at least for the drivers and some of the impact) for no truck service and a 5 year warranty, I don't think that's unreasonable on my part.

 

[85FourEyedGT]

Something about using tools, driving cars and wearing clothes that all say "Made in USA" just honestly makes me feel good inside. Its my money, I choose how to spend it

Like someone said previously , Craftsman built its reputation on " Made in USA" and "Lifetime Warranty" , thats why the COO things is such an issue

 

[mechanicalmoron]

There's nothing inherently wrong with importing stuff, but I don't like supporting trade deficits or profiteering businesses practices that hurt the US.

I sometimes buy an interim or test chinese tool, or something that I rarely use - my riviter, crimper, and wire cutters, for instance - but I feel sort of guilty about that, I generally keep that sort of thing seperate from my good tools.

If I'm buying used I don't care as much, but also won't pay anywhere near as much for something with an undesirable coo, even used.

My one exception, of tools that I consider to be quality and trustworthy despite being sourced from all over, is duralast. They have a lifetime warrenty, and auto-zone has chosen outstanding suppliers and designs, in my experience. I have a moral problem with ONLY buying cheap tools from outside the US, that ruins the US economy and turns us into consumers, not producers, globally - but I don't have a problem selectively importing quality items, as long as it's well balanced with US support. I have a giant problem with outsourcing, it's totally morally different than just starting a business with a different model, I will NOT buy any chinese craftsman products.

 

[Canadian Charlie]

I have tools from just about everywhere, USA, Canada, UK, Italy, Germany, Tiwaan, China, etc, etc. Yes I have alot of Snap On tools and alot of China tools, I've fallen into the Snap On trap quite a few times but was lucky to buy used. To me I just want a tool thats affordable, won't break on its first use, easy to obtain and feels good in my hands.

If we had Harbour Frieght here in Europe I'd be there every week

 

[bowmard]

I totally agree. You can only rob Peter to pay Paul for so long.

 

[MDSPHOTO]

Nope.

 

[Rustypigeon]

I prefer my tools to come from USA, Canada, western Europe and Japan. Those countries seem to produce the best quality.

Most of my tools are USA Craftsman, Snap-On, SK, Klein and Channelock. I no longer shop at Sears since I can buy tools made in China at Harbor Freight if that is what I want.

The only time I prefer a cheaper tool is for my emergency tool bag in the trunk of my car. I like to have a wide variety of tools in this bag for emergency road repairs, but I don't want to spend a lot of money since these tools sit in the car and hardly get used. The emergency bag is the only tool collection I have that has a significant proportion of Chinese made tools.

 

[autonaut]

I Do.

Knowing the mentality and culture of the germans i buy from them.

The country was almost wiped off the earth in the 40'ies, and is now what keeps Europe's exonomy afloat. Most of my tools are german, except for a lot of swedish pliers and english torque wrenches and vice's.. The old world tools never fail on me.. I rarely buy anything but specialty tools as my existing one's dont break.

With that being said, i have a Proxxon Taiwan made socket and ratchet set i've been using several times a week for 5 years straight. I abuse them intentionally to see what they will take. So far they hold up. Kindda makes me wonder

 

[luccre]

Yes i do. It depends on how expensive it is. Why is it so expensive!!

 

[6PTsocket]

When I was at the USAF Museum in Dayton Ohio, I noticed all the stuff in the gift shop was imported. When I mentioned that our own government wasn't buying American, the sales lady said they tried American made but people would not pay the price.
I used to buy SK and I have a lot of old USA Williams inch stuff, long before they were bought by Snap On. I have pieces of both brands that are roughly made. I think tools have gotten prettier if not better. Almost everything is full polish today.I have bought more import stuff lately as USA prices have gone off the wall. So far so good. Craftsman is just a marketing name for whoever is supplying Sears this week. Way back when Easco made Craftsman wrenches. Danaher (Armstrong, Jacobs, KB, Gear Wrench, Allen and many other companies) made their USA wrenches. SK also supplied them for a time. I agree it has been a down hill slide for years over at Sears. HF does sell some junk but a lot of their stuff is the same as much more expensive imports sold by others. My HF caliper kit is identical to the Astro Pneumatic at twice the price. There is a place on the box for the foil brand name label of your choice

 

[Southern]

Any tool I buy, I try to make sure it's what I research to the very highest quality, best made, best warrantied one.

That means if you put every single tool I own in a huge pile, the pile would be 95% USA, 4% split between Germany and Japan, and the last 1% Canadian and Swiss. Positively 0% South Asian.

In any cases possible, I will buy something inferior if it's American Made. Case in point are my Makita 12'' mitre saw and 5'' sander. Neither are as good as the Festool equivalent, but both made in the USA. Another good example is my new 20v DeWalt drill/impact driver combo. I ****** hate DeWalt, seriously, but this set is assembled in the states so I went with it straight away.

Short answer, yes COO plays a primary role in every single thing I purchase, not just tools. I haven't bought a single product, at all anywhere in my life, made in China in the last, probably, 5 years. In the last year I've actually committed to only buying Made In USA (everything - clothes, housewares, car stuff, electronics, recreation, supplies, name it), and run about an 80% clip or better.

 

[SawtoothJL]

The fact of the matter is that is if a tool is good it's a good tool. That means it could be made in China or it could be made in the USA. People just need to do research before they buy and stop getting all upset about COO.

Sent from my SPH-M950 using Tapatalk

 

[d.mcfarland]

^^^ Agree that a tool can be good if made outside of the USA. However, most companies know that moving production lowers cost at the expense of quality. That's the trade off and the reason why it is likely done.

 

[Davefr]

The fact of the matter is that is if a tool is good it's a good tool. That means it could be made in China or it could be made in the USA.

That's true however there are very few examples.

The motivation to move to China is low cost, low cost, low cost. I have no doubt Chinese manufacturing is capable of "dialing up" quality if more $'s are thrown into the equation.

I can't think of any Chinese tool example where quality trumps cost.

There's probably a small market for top tier quality at a price point lower then premium US suppliers but higher then the typical "HF like" garbage. It would be interesting see what the Chinese could come up with.

 

[1foxracing]

In the last year I've actually committed to only buying Made In USA (everything - clothes, housewares, car stuff, electronics, recreation, supplies, name it), and run about an 80% clip or better.

Just curious as to what USA manufactured electronics you are purchasing? Not doubting at all but I would be happy to support any company making electronics in the USA.
I think Curtis Mathes was the last US manufactured TV and they have been gone quite a long time now.

 

[ecotec]

^^^ Agree that a tool can be good if made outside of the USA. However, most companies know that moving production lowers cost at the expense of quality. That's the trade off and the reason why it is likely done.

What if it did not? What if it was just as good? What if it was better? It probably isn't, but what if. The reason to buy USA, in my opinion, is to support American manufacturing. It is to feed my neighbors and countrymen before foreign people. I try to buy USA first.

I bought some calipers at HF yesterday. I am not a buy only USA kind of guy.

I prefer to buy USA. Sometimes I cheap out.

Take deadblow hammers. An American one is like $30. A Tekton one owned by Michigan Industrial Tools but made in Taiwan is about $20. A HF one owned by HF in California but made in Taiwan (it looks exactly like the Tekton) is around $9 and with a 25% off coupon on my phone is $6.75. Why buy the Tekton one? In my opinion, that is dumb. I would buy either the $30 one or the $6.75 one. If you buy the American one, you are helping feed the American people who manufacture it. If you buy the HF one, you save $23. So you are keeping more buying power for your family. If you buy the Tekton one, you are not helping American jobs and you are not saving your family as much buying power. You are throwing away $10. If Tekton wants my money, they can make their deadblow in USA or sell the Taiwan one to me for $6.75.

If you find an American one at a garage sale or estate sale, even better. That really is the best way to find all but the most precision tools, if you are not in a hurry.

 

[ecotec]

I can't think of any Chinese tool example where quality trumps cost.

Milwaukee. It is owned by the chinese AND made by the chinese. It is probably the best and most innovative line of power tools (especially their cordless lineup) today.

 

[Davefr]

Milwaukee. It is owned by the chinese AND made by the chinese. It is probably the best and most innovative line of power tools (especially their cordless lineup) today.

That's a great example!! GJ members seem to have a love affair with Milwaukee with a minimum of COO whining.

I haven't stumbled onto many examples of Milwaukee quality going into the ******* when they moved to China.

The parent company obviously made it a goal to keep quality high and let price adjust to where it needed to be to maintain high quality.

 

[ecotec]

When I started in the trades in '94, in almost every companies gangboxes, there were Dewalt cordless drills, Milwaukee corded drills, Milwaukee sawzalls, Metabo grinders, Milwaukee portabands, Hilti hammer drills.

Then one year… Stout portabands started showing up on jobs… They were a major timesaver.

Then Milwaukee made their own version.

Since then, every companies gang boxes are more and more Milwaukee and less and less of the other brands every year.

When was the last time you saw a Stout on a job? They changed the world, and got run over.

I can't wait to see the Milwaukee cordless knockout sets on jobs.

Milwaukee needs to come out with a cordless crimper for crimp dies and lugs.

 

[oldtools]

Just curious as to what USA manufactured electronics you are purchasing? Not doubting at all but I would be happy to support any company making electronics in the USA.
I think Curtis Mathes was the last US manufactured TV and they have been gone quite a long time now.

I believe Vizio (started by a Chinese guy) is an American company. Though other companies like LG make TV for them, Vizio assembled them in the US. That is the closet you get to an American TV maker for now.

 

[ecotec]

Milwaukee should send a guy to the 100 biggest industrial jobs, 100 residential jobs, 100 normal large commercial jobs and look in the gang boxes of the plumbers, electricians… They should look in every trades gang boxes.

If there is a power tool in there that they do not produce, they should make produce a version. Even if they only break even on that tool, it will be worth it in the long run for them.

Cordless crimp tools being just one example. I do not understand why they have not jumped on this tool.

 

[ecotec]

I believe Vizio (started by a Chinese guy) is an American company. Though other companies like LG make TV for them, Vizio assembled them in the US. That is the closet you get to an American TV maker for now.

http://www.elementelectronics.com

 

[Southern]

Just curious as to what USA manufactured electronics you are purchasing?

Electronics can be challenging because you have to make compromises. First of which being you're pretty much only going to get assembled in the USA of parts mostly from Japan and Germany (few people know that most of the guts in your electronics are actually Japanese, China doesn't actually build as much technology as everyone thinks, only assembles most stuff with dirt cheap labor). The other compromise is you're usually buying American assembled goods from foreign and Asian companies. My system isn't perfect, but it's better than doing nothing.

Without providing a detailed list of the things I own, I get electronic and appliance stuff from Lenovo, Motorola, Element Electronics, Aprilaire, Jenn-Air, Vizio, and OWC that are all made or at least assembled in the US.

The only product I insist to have despite my principles is my Kindle. To reconcile that, I bought it used, so I wasn't giving Amazon any money for it. The day they make an eReader in the US, I'm sellin' this thing.

 

[chad2198]

I care where tools are made as well as other things. I hate buying things made in China.
It's getting really hard to find anything made in the usa anymore.


So if I can find a usa made tool. I'll gladly pay more for the tool if it was actually made in the good ole usa.

I have nothing against Chinese people. But I noticed that when my brother bought some taffy candy it said made in "CHINA" I was like wtf.

I used to buy made in usa taffy. Now they have to ship that overseas as well? "Shaking my head".


When I go to buy radiator hoses for my truck. I go to oreillyauto as the hoses are made in the usa as opposed to autozone which sells made in china hoses.

The made in china hoses are only 3 dollars cheaper than the made in usa ones. So I go for the usa made hoses.

Chad

 

[ecotec]

Years ago, tool websites put COO in the online listing. Now, it is often nowhere to be found.

 

[BikerDad]

I have no doubt Chinese manufacturing is capable of "dialing up" quality if more $'s are thrown into the equation.

Nope, at least not to the level that US/Canadian/Japanese/Western European manufacturing can produce. It's not a question of money. The Chinese gov't has thrown hundreds of thousands of man years into their fighter jet programs. They've reverse engineered almost everything the Soviets/Russians have shared with them. Yet, they still aren't able to build copies of 30 year old Soviet jet engines that are as reliable as the originals. And those originals weren't even up to the quality standards of Western engines of the time, much less today.

It's like this with a LOT of very advanced technology. Now, most of the tool technology that we're dealing with here is a lot simpler, so if the Chinese really, seriously want to, they certainly can do it. Yet, even when attempting to compete / knock-off the Lie-Nielsen updates to the classic Stanley metal planes, it took THREE generations of product to market to get it right. Think about that. Using some of the latest and greatest technology available to copy an update of something that was produced a hundred years ago, it still took three product generations.

Will they want to do it?

 

[Dave.R]

What if it did not? What if it was just as good? What if it was better? It probably isn't, but what if. The reason to buy USA, in my opinion, is to support American manufacturing. It is to feed my neighbors and countrymen before foreign people. I try to buy USA first.

I bought some calipers at HF yesterday. I am not a buy only USA kind of guy.

I prefer to buy USA. Sometimes I cheap out.

Take deadblow hammers. An American one is like $30. A Tekton one owned by Michigan Industrial Tools but made in Taiwan is about $20. A HF one owned by HF in California but made in Taiwan (it looks exactly like the Tekton) is around $9 and with a 25% off coupon on my phone is $6.75. Why buy the Tekton one? In my opinion, that is dumb. I would buy either the $30 one or the $6.75 one. If you buy the American one, you are helping feed the American people who manufacture it. If you buy the HF one, you save $23. So you are keeping more buying power for your family. If you buy the Tekton one, you are not helping American jobs and you are not saving your family as much buying power. You are throwing away $10. If Tekton wants my money, they can make their deadblow in USA or sell the Taiwan one to me for $6.75.

If you find an American one at a garage sale or estate sale, even better. That really is the best way to find all but the most precision tools, if you are not in a hurry.

The TEKTON one is California Prop 65 compliant to be free of leads and phthalates. Also we don't require sales slips, or taking the tool in anywhere, just contact us or me, I normally just ask for a picture verifying the damage. I'm seeing 11.99 vs. 19.16 online price, but I'm not sure if it is different in your local store.


I live in Grand Rapids Michigan, This company provides me and my 75 or so coworkers a great job.

 

[Askme42]

Years ago, tool websites put COO in the online listing. Now, it is often nowhere to be found.

I recommended this to a buddy of mine that runs web design for a quickly growing safety/industrial tool company.

Sadly my advice was not followed thru on.

 

[ecotec]

Dave, I appreciate the deal you made with Wilde. I will pick up some of those pliers when I see them in a store. I want to do my part to reward that deal. You should try to make a deal to sell the made in USA Wilde pry bars. They are a wonderful tool and made by a wonderful company.

It is not $11.99 when you buy them on sale AND use a 25% off coupon. Not even close. It is not right, in my opinion, to pay full price for an emerging market tool. Every dollar is a vote. I respect your job in our wonderful state, but you are not getting that $10.

I realize that my way of thinking is hypocritical, as I buy Milwaukee, but it is what it is.

 

[ecotec]

Southern, how do you like your Element television?

 

[slob]

Judging by the rusty, horrendous, flea-market, knockoff, no-name scrap metal inhabiting the toolboxes of the mechanics at my job, no, nobody cares. I do, though. I buy USA whenever possible.

 

[ecotec]

They are dissimilar products, but I see your point.

I think calling them a dissimilar product is an exaggeration. They are both dead blows that look like they are made in the same factory on the same molds. They are both made by American companies and manufactured in an emerging market factory (the same one?).

I will take a picture of your product, the next time I am at Production Tool & Supply, and take a picture of the HF. Lets let the people following this thread decide if they are a dissimilar product.

Edit, you meant that the Tekton tool line and Milwaukee are dissimilar products. You are correct. I was just conveying that my preferences could be seen as hypocritical.

 

[Dave.R]

I think calling them a dissimilar product is an exaggeration. They are both dead blows that look like they are made in the same factory on the same molds. They are both made by American companies and manufactured in an emerging market factory (the same one?).

I will take a picture of your product, the next time I am at Production Tool & Supply, and take a picture of the HF. Lets let the people following this thread decide if they are a dissimilar product.

Edit, you meant that the Tekton tool line and Milwaukee are dissimilar products. You are correct.

The composition of the materials used are different. That doesn't matter to some people, but it does to others.

We go through the trouble to be sure ours are lead and phthalate-free. When you make things with better materials the pricing shows. But again I'm all for buying whatever suits you best. I can assure ours are made to our specs and our formulation.

 

[ecotec]

The composition of the materials used are different. That doesn't matter to some people, but it does to others.

We go through the trouble to be sure ours are lead and phthalate-free. When you make things with better materials the pricing shows. But again I'm all for buying whatever suits you best. I can assure ours are made to our specs and our formulation.

I can appreciate that. And… You will still get my money… When I see the Wilde pliers in a store…

Thank you for your presence on the forum.

 

[oldtools]

http://www.elementelectronics.com

I guess there is two maybe even three as Apple want to get into the TV business.

 

[monomach]

"I can assure ours are made to our specs and our formulation."

Pretty much the exact same thing is on every junky Irwin product's label, including their vises...which are exactly the same as HF's.

It's a meaningless phrase.

 

[-Brent-]

I care on multiple levels. I'd type it out but it's more of a conversation I'd have over a beer - it's too much to type. That said, I'm going to list out a bunch of different "folks" I've seen/encountered as far as tools and COO is concerned:

Some folks care to the point they'll spend extra time seeking the US-made tool and extra money purchasing it.

Some folks say they care (and do) but cost dictates what they purchase and this can lead to purchases of items produce by out-of-country manufacturing locations.

Some folks put quality as priority number one. USA may or may not win out.

As well, lots of us have seen some folks desert a company based on their moving manufacturing out of the states.

Some don't care at all.

Some make business decisions to send production out of the country because they feel that they can no longer flourish/maintain margins here in the states.

Some don't know enough to care and they believe a tool company's marketing hype.

Some people love cheap knock-offs.

Some others believe gimmicks/marketing that allude to a product actually being made in the US. These people don't read the fine print.

Some folks see things through a global perspective and choose quality over politics.

Some folks don't do anything but buy what someone else buys. If you're not thinking for yourself, you probably don't care.

Some people see 30% off an arbitrary MSRP and jump at it. They're called suckers and they likely don't care about COO either.

Some do care about COO but there's a hierarchy of countries. Germans are the best at this, Japanese at that, Taiwanese for this, Spain for that, and so on. Somewhere in the mix USA falls. I suppose that depends on what the tool is and such.

Some will buy anything but Chinese-produced tools.

Some end up buying only Chinese-produced tools.

Some people buy whatever they can access. They may or may not care... but the S-O truck isn't driving 200 miles into the middle of nowhere for one client.

I could go on.

So, do people (as a whole) really care? I'm not sure that's the way to frame the question. People don't agree on much and those you can find to agree with you, are most likely a minority of the population.

 

[Southern]

Southern, how do you like your Element television?

They can be bought at Target cheaply enough. It's no Sharp or Samsung, but the "Assembled in the USA" sticker tricks my brain into thinking it's the most high-def thing I've ever seen.

 

[NFH2740]

I care. US COO is my preference; Germany second. Even when buying a small item that will not be used reguarly, I hang my head in shame if it is from China.