23ford
Well-known member
I use stands
Do you ALWAYS use jack stands? Help settle the argument.
- Thread starter JackOfDiamonds
- Start date
sean Buick 76
Well-known member
Do you loosen the lug nuts a bit before you Jack it up?
Only if doing it with a breaker bar by hand.
Or do you just jack it up, zip the nuts off with an impact?
Yes! But each nut goes back on by hand then snugged up with the impact and then torqued once the vehicle is in the ground.
How many miles before you re-torque the lug nuts?
30-50 miles
Only if doing it with a breaker bar by hand.
Or do you just jack it up, zip the nuts off with an impact?
Yes! But each nut goes back on by hand then snugged up with the impact and then torqued once the vehicle is in the ground.
How many miles before you re-torque the lug nuts?
30-50 miles
GaryM909
Well-known member
I never use jack stands when changing tires but I only do one corner at a time. I always use stands when I am underneath for almost anything else. There is no way I am crawling around under a vehicle that is only supported by just a jack of any kind. I jack my vehicles up to do oil changes and put wood under the tires instead of using stands.
racecougar
Well-known member
You're doing it all wrong. 
One 4"x4" for safety is all ya need.
One 4"x4" for safety is all ya need.jayemm
Well-known member
This is the type of jack that came with my new VW Jetta back in 1985. I tried to see if it would really work. The shoe/base just slid under the car on the smooth concrete when load was applied by cranking. Couldn't Fkn' believe how it was expected to work. No stability whatsoever. At least it wouldn't slid on soft dirt, just burrow into the ground. Replaced it with a small trolley jack that I kept in a small toolbox in the trunk.
I tend to use jack stands (and have taught my son to always use them) as I have gotten older but that wasn't always the case. I actually helped a buddy drive his Blazer about 1-1/2 miles on a floor jack after losing a wheel and 1/2 axle (ah, to be young and stupid lol). I still will sometimes rely on just the jack if it's just one tire and something easy (bleeding brakes comes to mind) but will always use a pair of stands if more than one wheel is coming off the ground. The only jack failure I've ever had was changing a flat roadside with the factory scissor jack and the screw sheared. Replaced that jack with a bottle jack same day it happened. Fortunately tire was still attached to vehicle when it dropped but that was an eye opener for sure.
four.cycle
Well-known member
RE: wood blocks
We do not have "white oak" here on the west coast. Our native oak is a "Garry Oak".
We have lots of Douglas Fir, which is perfectly fine for blocking up a vehicle. Western Hemlock - eh.... not so much (a bit softer species.)
Scavenge cut-offs of 6" x 8" (or 6" x 10" if you can get it) from construction sites.
Works just dandy. Don't underestimate kiln-dried Doug Fir.
Sitka Spruce is fine, but you generally won't find it cut in those dimensions.
We do not have "white oak" here on the west coast. Our native oak is a "Garry Oak".
We have lots of Douglas Fir, which is perfectly fine for blocking up a vehicle. Western Hemlock - eh.... not so much (a bit softer species.)
Scavenge cut-offs of 6" x 8" (or 6" x 10" if you can get it) from construction sites.
Works just dandy. Don't underestimate kiln-dried Doug Fir.
Sitka Spruce is fine, but you generally won't find it cut in those dimensions.
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IndyGarage
Well-known member
Well, I guess if I'm just changing a single tire - no I don't use jack stands.
If I'm getting any part of my body under the vehicle, then Jack stands.
If I'm getting any part of my body under the vehicle, then Jack stands.
jar944
Well-known member
Changing tires.. no
sz0k30
Well-known member
I don't understand why you are getting under a car to swap wheels/tires?
dcg9381
Well-known member
I was teaching the kid today to do an oil and coolant change. First thing I said was "we ALWAYS" use jack stands, even if we're not on a jack. It's not optional.
It takes 2 minutes. Cheap "lets not get killed" insurance.
It takes 2 minutes. Cheap "lets not get killed" insurance.
VolvoRyan
Well-known member
The best case scenario from a jack failure (slow leak down) is still a PITA. Jack stands.
-Ryan
-Ryan
Omitting jack stands when you're not getting any part of you under the vehicle is just fine. The problem is you have to police yourself - and it's easy to make a mistake.
You can't go taking safety shortcuts if you can't be trusted not to reach under there if a lug nut rolls away from you or sticking your arm inside to pull on a wheel that corrosion stuck onto the hub. Could you get too close when lining up the wheel and have your toes under the car? No bueno.
So of course you can do with a jack stand, if you're not putting ANY part of you under the vehicle, for any reason. You don't have to wear a helmet when welding either, provided you keep your eyes closed.
But are those good habits?
You can't go taking safety shortcuts if you can't be trusted not to reach under there if a lug nut rolls away from you or sticking your arm inside to pull on a wheel that corrosion stuck onto the hub. Could you get too close when lining up the wheel and have your toes under the car? No bueno.
So of course you can do with a jack stand, if you're not putting ANY part of you under the vehicle, for any reason. You don't have to wear a helmet when welding either, provided you keep your eyes closed.
But are those good habits?
thooks
Well-known member
When using a jack - yes, 100%. Except if it's changing/rotating tires, then I will leave the jack on the center lifting point in the rear (usually a FWD small SUV in my case).
I use the plastic ramps for oil changes - I have a 12k pair, I do seem them "struggle" holding up the front of my Tundra and LX570, probably 4000 lbs on them. I trust them, they are engineered to be on concrete, that is what I use them on. They are NOT engineered to be used on gravel, dirt, etc. On asphalt, I'd put plywood under them...
I use the plastic ramps for oil changes - I have a 12k pair, I do seem them "struggle" holding up the front of my Tundra and LX570, probably 4000 lbs on them. I trust them, they are engineered to be on concrete, that is what I use them on. They are NOT engineered to be used on gravel, dirt, etc. On asphalt, I'd put plywood under them...
If I am just changing wheels, then I might put a floor jack under the pinch weld by a particular corner so the vehicle is still on three tires at a time. Same idea if I were looking for a noisy rock in the tire. I just barely lift it high enough for the tire to come off the ground and never put my hands underneath, so there is minimal risk to me or the vehicle if the jack decides to collapse.
I would never use just a floor jack if I were lifting from a central point, putting two wheels off the ground at a time, or if I was lifting it any higher than described above.
When I do go underneath a vehicle, I have at least two jack stands on the pinch weld lift points, put my floor jack in contact with a central point, and put any wheels I might have removed under the pinch welds as well.
But hey, if you are more comfortable lifting half the vehicle at a time and using jack stands to change tires, then stick with that. It is perhaps slower as your friend says, but it's not less safe and it gives you a chance to inspect brakes/suspension like others have said.
IndyGarage
Well-known member
If they are followed all the time they are good habits. I spent probably 7-8 hours this weekend under vehicles. As I have for many many weekends over many many years. I do not put my hands under a tire when the car is only on a jack, or under anything that would hit the ground if the jack fell down. I pay very close attention to where the vehicle would land if it falls. I do pull tires from the side, and yeah I've had a car fall off a jack before.
If I'm under the vehicle it's not on only a single jack or even usually a single jack stand. Almost always I use both a jack and a jack stand if I'm under it. The point you always want to make to yourself is this - if that jack fails, or that jack stand fails, will I get crushed? If the answer is yes, then take the time for additional support. I have a car right now sitting on 4 jack stands pretty high in the air. When I go under it I put something additional under it just to catch it if it falls. Hopefully if one of the stands fails then this will give me enough support to escape.
IndyGarage
Well-known member
I will say that I've had a steel ramp fail - and it just crushed and dropped under load after the vehicle had been sitting on it for 30 minutes.I was teaching the kid today to do an oil and coolant change. First thing I said was "we ALWAYS" use jack stands, even if we're not on a jack. It's not optional.
It takes 2 minutes. Cheap "lets not get killed" insurance.
They were almost new ramps too - just collapsed with my Chevy Caprice on them. That was a long time ago, and I'm sure those plastic ones are better, but I have not used ramps since and probably never will. It was a good lesson for me not to trust a single lift source.
danielbuck
Well-known member
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most of my vehicles are high enough off the ground that I can easily change oil and do most maintenance work on the underside without jacking the vehicle up. But if I do need to jack the vehicle up and I'm going to be under it (brakes, suspension and what not), I use stands.
If I'm going to be working on the vehicle a lot (more than just a quick brake pad change or something) and it's going to be up in the air for more than just an afternoon, I'll use my larger 10 ton Sunex stands. They are more secure, and can get the vehicle quite high off the ground if I set them to the highest setting on all 4 corners (they raise up to about 30 inches).
If I'm going to be working on the vehicle a lot (more than just a quick brake pad change or something) and it's going to be up in the air for more than just an afternoon, I'll use my larger 10 ton Sunex stands. They are more secure, and can get the vehicle quite high off the ground if I set them to the highest setting on all 4 corners (they raise up to about 30 inches).
Depends on the situation somewhat;
I rarely lift just one corner to swap one tire. I don't do winter/summer tires although that would be nice.
If I have to rotate tires I have no way other than using stands. Two under the frame rails in front (GX and F150) and then lift the rear with the jack. No stands in back as I'm not getting under the vehicle, just rotating tires.
For anything that requires me to stick my head in/under, or crawl in/under, it's jack stands 100% of the time. Why not? If I'm in that much of a hurry I can't spare the 5 minutes to place jack stands I'm likely in too much of a hurry to be focusing on the job in the first place.
I rarely lift just one corner to swap one tire. I don't do winter/summer tires although that would be nice.
If I have to rotate tires I have no way other than using stands. Two under the frame rails in front (GX and F150) and then lift the rear with the jack. No stands in back as I'm not getting under the vehicle, just rotating tires.
For anything that requires me to stick my head in/under, or crawl in/under, it's jack stands 100% of the time. Why not? If I'm in that much of a hurry I can't spare the 5 minutes to place jack stands I'm likely in too much of a hurry to be focusing on the job in the first place.
I built ramps out of 2x8. Four layers, each about 4" shorter than the next with a 45 cut on the leading edge of each to make the climb a little nicer. Glued and screwed together. No need to worry about failure with those.
for tire change I’ll take a jack stand and put it under the pinch weld on the frame but I won’t bother to adjust it
on most regular cars the height needed to change the tire is just about where a jack stand will slide under a pinch weld without needing to be raised
if the jack fails it will lower the car onto the stand and it might damage the pinch weld a bit but I’m okay with that
if the jack fails and the car falls down onto the rotor I’m going to be all kinds of sad
i just imagine the rotor bending and taking some other stuff with it and I keep one jack stand in each car next to the jack and multiple jack stands in the garage so the extra 20 seconds to slide the jack stand under compared to hundreds of dollars of damage for parts and hours of repair effort if Jing Yong‘s jack seal failed while I’m changing the tire.
honestly if you could still get jacks made in the US I’d be less obliged to use a jack stand for tire changes
on most regular cars the height needed to change the tire is just about where a jack stand will slide under a pinch weld without needing to be raised
if the jack fails it will lower the car onto the stand and it might damage the pinch weld a bit but I’m okay with that
if the jack fails and the car falls down onto the rotor I’m going to be all kinds of sad
i just imagine the rotor bending and taking some other stuff with it and I keep one jack stand in each car next to the jack and multiple jack stands in the garage so the extra 20 seconds to slide the jack stand under compared to hundreds of dollars of damage for parts and hours of repair effort if Jing Yong‘s jack seal failed while I’m changing the tire.
honestly if you could still get jacks made in the US I’d be less obliged to use a jack stand for tire changes
Bubba Fett
Well-known member
Changing one wheel/tire at a time? Just a jack is fine, but it's best to chock the wheels on the other end.
If I have to get underneath, I will use ramps and chocks if possible.
The only time I use jack stands is if I need to remove the wheels to work on something else, and even then, I'm hesitant to trust them.
Gravity always wins.
If I have to get underneath, I will use ramps and chocks if possible.
The only time I use jack stands is if I need to remove the wheels to work on something else, and even then, I'm hesitant to trust them.
Gravity always wins.
Exactly. It only takes a second.
lol. I can't believe how many people are weighing in without reading the first post at all.
Now that I think of it, probably the best odds for injury are hoisting wheels up if you're dealing with a truck. Getting older and all, I probably should hunt around for some little jack thingie that picks up the tire.
Jeez, you must be at least as old as I am!
When I started working on cars, they only came with bumper jacks. One day I was changing a tire on my 65 chevy using a bumper jack on a level concrete surface where I had worked before. All of a sudden the car moved and swung at me, as the bumper jack decided to try to tip over. I wasn't under the car when this started, but if the jack had tipped over, the car would have swung over on top of me.
Fortunately, I was able to steady the vehicle and get it back on the ground. I was extra spooked because a good friend of mine had been killed recently when his car fell on him.
My next paycheck, I bought a floor jack and a couple of jack stands. I use jack stands religiously even when changing tires, taught my kids to always use them, and if they're on the road trying to fix a spare tire, to always put a tire under the vehicle.
I've also seen those cheap OEM scissor jacks go wonky multiple times.
Gotta ask.
Does everyone have a pair of jackstands in their car in case they have a flat?
Side note: I admit that bumper jacks are sketchy. I've only used one in anger once. Far end of P-code Galaxie, all one million pounds of it, teetering in the breeze. I'm here to tell the tale, but it's not pretty.
Does everyone have a pair of jackstands in their car in case they have a flat?
Side note: I admit that bumper jacks are sketchy. I've only used one in anger once. Far end of P-code Galaxie, all one million pounds of it, teetering in the breeze. I'm here to tell the tale, but it's not pretty.
whateg01
Well-known member
I bet a bunch of cars falling off bumper jacks could have been prevented with a set of wheel chocks and knowing which way the car wants to fall. Same goes for scissor jacks.
It's a good question - but what conclusion would you draw, assuming the answer is no?
E.g. I think you can change a tire without jackstands - if you treat the car like a live snake that will bite any extremity placed below it. That's exactly what I would do, and have done, on the side of the road.
But it's also a shortcut and a bad habit. If you can't trust yourself to remain vigilant (and its pretty easy to accidentally reach for a socket rolling under the car, or put your body in a bad position while lifting and aligning a heavy wheel) - use jackstands.
I doubt most people, even the most ******** GJ folks do not.
One thing though, several of the european cars I've worked with over the last few years, and a few of the others, come with wheel chocks, and the owners manual suggests to put the spare under the car while you're jacking it up.
Just for swapping summer and winter wheels no jack stand. Dealing with that takes longer then the amount of time the wheel is off. Now if the car is going to be jacked up for any length of time like you're taking the wheels off to mount other tires then yeah it goes on a stand.
Jay__Dub
Well-known member
If I'm just putting the snows on, no, but any repair, like brakes etc, or under car work, I always use jack stands.
Why do you need jack stands when you are just rotating wheels?
There just seem to be a lot of people who no how no way will change a tire in their garage without a jackstands, so I'm curious if they carried some in their car. You'd think that would be an even sketchier circumstance.
On a related note, if hydraulic jacks are so prone to failure and killing you, maybe someone should work on a top notch screw-type, or some other mechanical deal, rollaround jack (I swear that I used to have a vintage transmission jack that was like that). I admit that jackstands are a nuisance (and I never really trust the ratcheting kind).
PlanB
Well-known member
For tire changes i used to be jack only....then the jack started to slowly fail. I now have a new and improved jack. and use jack stands.
whateg01
Well-known member
The one I am most familiar with was the Walker transmission jack. No idea of model number, but it had handwheels for controlling lift and tilt.
By golly, I think you might be right. Kind of cool, but probably unbuildable now for any kind of decent price point. I left one behind in Tucson sometime in the late 1970s.
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Badgerstate
Well-known member
I personally use jack stands all the time, no matter what because I was always taught that a jack is for lifting and jack stands are for supporting weight.
However, as long as you arent crawling under the vehicle, youd probably be fine just using a jack. I mean, even if it were to fall, as long as you arent under it, nothings going to happen.
However, as long as you arent crawling under the vehicle, youd probably be fine just using a jack. I mean, even if it were to fall, as long as you arent under it, nothings going to happen.
I have several pieces of 6 X 6s that I use and feel they are much safer than jack stands.