Do you consider ASE's tools?

[knocker]

ASE testing starts again this week and as I was browsing Garage Journal I got a reminder email of my test dates. It got me thinking, I do consider them to be very useful tools. They help me do my job better and also pay me more to do that job. I was wondering how you guys feel about ASE certs and who has which or all and which are you signed up for.

 

[znowaczyk]

they for sure are not a tool. Just as my "toolbox" hasnt made me a dime, my ASE's have had little or nothing to do with any money I have ever made. I used to work at a VW dealer and the certs were worthless. I have since worked in two indy shops, and I find they are equally worthless (to me anyway) there. They are pretty much wall paper for my boss to hang up to make the cutomers feel better.

 

[oldtools]

I am not a professional so I don't need to be ASE certified.

 

[Shipfittin]

No, I would not consider an ASE certification as a tool. I have a lot of qualifications in my trade and do not consider them tools either.

There is nothing that a qual brings to the table that an unqualified person can not do. All it does is present proof that the person was competent enough to pass a test based on a certain task(s).

 

[davesnothere]

Wow, I was expecting different answers.

 

[znowaczyk]

Wow, I was expecting different answers.

I'm sure they will show up. Some dumb young kid who just spent $50K at wyotech or UTI who thinks that ******** piece of paper is his gateway to a fortune...Reality can sure be painful. Only reason I keep mine current is...well...hmmm...it's cheaper to recertify than to let them lapse and have to retest...

 

[ibedayank]

knowledge is power...certs can get you in the door but you knowledege keeps you there

 

[Shipfittin]

I'm sure they will show up. Some dumb young kid who just spent $50K at wyotech or UTI who thinks that ******** piece of paper is his gateway to a fortune...Reality can sure be painful. Only reason I keep mine current is...well...hmmm...it's cheaper to recertify than to let them lapse and have to retest...

Exactly, it's nothing against anyone who is ASE certified. It's just not a tool, it's a certification. In my end of the world we refer to it as glorified toilet paper. But it is one of those things that is pretty much a requirement to have in the industry. Just like in mine we have a lot of different quals. Without them I can not work on certain systems or components. So I have to keep them up to date in order to do my job. But being certified doesn't promote job performance.

 

[bamackc]

glorified toilet paper.

Thats really all it is.

but face it, who doesn't love toilet paper?

Then think of glorified toilet paper.

 

[ibedayank]

Thats really all it is.

but face it, who doesn't love toilet paper?

Then think of glorified toilet paper.

go apply for a pressure vessel job without that cert and see how far you get

 

[muddyjoe15]

I'm sure they will show up. Some dumb young kid who just spent $50K at wyotech or UTI who thinks that ******** piece of paper is his gateway to a fortune...Reality can sure be painful. Only reason I keep mine current is...well...hmmm...it's cheaper to recertify than to let them lapse and have to retest...

My scool makes us take two ASEs before we can graduate. In my opinion they prove nothing. Some are better at taking tests then others, does that mean they can do the service in the field, any better? I had a instructor who knew very little about or had an automatic transmisson apart, but passed the automatics ASEs with flying colors. I bet if you gave him a 727 he wouldnt get to far without having to ask an experianced tech!

In my opnion its just another rackater(speeling) to make more money. A none certified tech earns less even though he may do the job better/quicker? And a shop can raise prices because their "certified"?!

But hey if my school is going to pay for me to take two ASEs, why not take them!

 

[Shipfittin]

go apply for a pressure vessel job without that cert and see how far you get

We're not saying that it isn't a requirement to have. We are just saying that it doesn't actually get the job done. It does nothing to actually turn the wrench or bang the steel.

 

[Fordfixer]

ASE is in it for the money that you give them every few years. I am certified A1 thru A8 and let my L1 expire. Ford no longer requires them as part of being master certified.

 

[ibedayank]

knowledge is power...certs can get you in the door but you knowledege keeps you there

as i said here....

 

[Eagle Point]

Nope. Regarding the automotive industry it is another patch to sew on your shirt and a paper to frame and hang over your bench. Even back in the 70's and 80's when I was a journeyman mechanic at the dealership (they did not call us technicians then!) when ever they hired an ASE certified mechanic they ended up being slow, not very skilled and just did not seem to catch on. They were good test takers but not very good at hands on which is where it counts. From what I have seen most of what comes out of UTI and Wyotech are not the sharpest of the group. The other so-called training program back then that was a complete waste of time was the Local Union Apprenticeship Program. To me, growing up as a kid helping Dad tinker on the cars or anything mechaniacal and being hands on and mechanically inclined was the best training along with auto shop in high school. Working at a dealership and attending the factory training classes was very helpfull for the most part. These days the automotive repair industry is real scary and seems like it is getting worse..........

 

[bamackc]

go apply for a pressure vessel job without that cert and see how far you get

I'm advocating the certs.
Look at it like this OP

Situation 1: No one has a ASE cert at this shop, should I get my car fixed here?

Situation 2: there is no toilet paper in this bathroom, should I pinch one here?

Think about it, it's always better with toilet paper.

 

[Fedwrench]

Yes, if what you're trying to fix is being unemployed.

Ase tests measure knowlege. They do not offer knowlege or enhance your abilities to repair vehicles. However, they do show a level of personal commitment and can help you get a foot in the door for a better job.

To me they've meant more money. Either a higher wage, remimbursement of testing costs plus a bonus for passing. They serve a purpose in a world without licenses for technicians.

 

[Wrenches of Death]

I was wondering how you guys feel about ASE certs and who has which or all and which are you signed up for.

I put it off for years. I really didn't see any need for bothering with it. I was stubbing good hours, my pay scale was the max that the shop paid, I wasn't on a team system, the dispatcher didn't hate me, and nobody messed with me. Life was good. About the only guys that I'd see wearing the ASE patch were the kids fresh out of trade school.

Then in the 1980's, the service director of the dealership I was working at decided that he wanted every wrench puller in the place certified. If I remember right, this had something to do with either the Mr.Goodwrench advertising or GM's big customer satisfaction push.

At any rate, there wasn't a whole hell of a lot of interest by the mechanics. <yawn>

Then he figured out a way to get our attention...

He offered to pay for and order the study guides, pay the test fees, chauffeur us to the test site, and then pay each of us fifty bucks cash for each certification we passed. If we got them all, he'd toss in an extra hundred bucks I think it was, for the "master" certification.

I took him up on the offer, as did pretty much the entire shop. I passed them all and did the same for the truck "master" certification when the next testing cycle came around.

Other than the bribes that I was paid to pass the tests, I honestly don't think that the certification ever made any impact on my earnings. I let them expire.

But, it's been a couple of few years since I darkened a stall in a dealership other than to visit. It's very possible that today, the worm has turned and the certifications will further your career. If nothing else, if you're looking for a job in this job market, the certification might make the difference between you getting hired or not getting hired.

WoD

 

[shampoop]

To me, they seem to be most useful when you're first starting out like myself. It's the #1 thing that set me apart from everyone else like me when applying for a job when you've just completed school. I took and passed 6 while still in school, and just haven't got around to taking the final 2 yet even though they're supposed to be the easiest ones. To a potential employer, they are proof that I'm at least not a complete *****.

 

[Wrenches of Death]

knowledge is power...certs can get you in the door but you knowledege keeps you there

I think that you hit the nail on the head.

WoD

 

[not-required]

I think that you hit the nail on the head.

WoD

I 3rd that.

 

[wafrederick]

Overcharge a little bit,price of the test and the test registration fee.

 

[VegaS10]

I'm about a week away from graduating my CC in the auto program, and I've been looking around at jobs in the area. Pretty much ALL dealerships want ASE certs to even fill out an application, and the small indy shops are junk paying nothing regardless of your intellect.

I know some of the techs at the dealerships and they say they start your pay based on your ases. Once in the door, they forget about them and you take the dealer's cert program. They tell me it's a great tool to get your foot in the door...and that's it.

I already landed a job that didn't rely on ase certs, rather so more on my previous job (but my schooling definitly helped). I will get a couple of my certs, as I want more than just an assoc. degree for the two years I spent in school.

 

[ptschram]

I've had a certification since 1981.

It has done absolutely nothing but improve my ego.

My wife refuses to allow me to take any more as she says they are just bought certs.

I doubt my pile of college diplomas is very valuable either.

 

[justanengineer]

After I got out of the military and was pursuing my bachelors in mech engineering I worked at several small shops and a dealership. Despite my having them, my certs were never discussed, but my military experience was brought up during interviews quite often. I was actually told by the service manager at the dealership that the certs counted for very little to him, but I was hired because I was in the military.

 

[diesel research]

Half of the tools in the average techs box are NOT mandatory. They MAY make the tech extra money by performing a task faster. Example, a special wrench that prevents having to remove ___.

ASE are not always mandatory. They MAY make the tech extra money in the way of a 1 time bonus or a wage increase ranging from cents to dollars per test.

A lot of people absolutely refuse to take them, not due to cost, but because they are poor test takers. Then they make generalizations or stereotypes that certified guys are worse.

I do not currently maintain any, for the same reason I do not have hardly any metric wrenches at work. Right now, both are about equally useless to me personally. That may change in the near future, and I will prepare myself accordingly.

It's like health insurance. Useless....until you need it.

____________________
I was discussing this with one of those poor test takers who is looking to leave and switch jobs. I suggested he get certified, and he claims he doesn't need it to "get a foot in the door". I ask how he figures he will wow them in the interview (interviewer likely a non technical person) and he seems to think they will simply know his intelligence and skill by his use of technical jargon. Also seems to think they will let him out in the shop to prove his technical ability firsthand. He was pretty furious with the notion of becoming credentialed.

....little does he know, with his 10 years of experience, the company still pays him $4/hr less than the new tech school graduates coming into that place.

 

[gibbon_guy]

I think ASEs are a tool to use when getting job, make more money per hour, and to show to customers.

Some customers will not go to your shop unless you have them.

A friend of mine got paid $1 extra per flat rate hour over the entry level rate. So instead of $15 per hour he made $23. I'd take all eight if that is what it would take to make that kind of a jump in pay.

A lot of dealerships and other shops like to see ASE certifications and AES certifications (emissions specialist). They also like experience and factory training at both dealerships and independent shops.

I have to recert on A1, A6, and A8! New cert on A2, A3, and L1! It's going to be a long two nights for me.

 

[TruckTech]

I work in the heavy duty truck field and find that ASE certified techs are almost non-existent. Ive always thought this might be due to the much smaller indy segment.

Manufacturer training courses and certifications are far more valuable to me. Im pushing like hell to for my employer to get me Allison certified right now. I would view manufacturer training and certs as tools just as I would view a repair manual as a tool. They teach you how to do your job effectively. ASE's dont really teach you anything.

As said before, they do make nice filler for a resume, though.

 

[wornoutoldman]

Although now retired I am A1-8 plus L1 and Master Machinest Certified. When I was working for the man those certs were worth an extra $250 a week in base pay and a foremanship. Personally I'd encourage anyone working in the field to take them. Don't test well? Process of elimination. With 4 answers to choose from you can usually rule out 2 of them as incorrect if not 3. You will likely test better than you think might. Also motorage makes great study guides. It can only help you.

 

[Layspeed]

I have my A2-A8, but I think a couple lapsed last December. I was about to test for the A1 a couple years ago, but life took a **** on us. When I first got the certs, it helped me land some jobs though. Afterwards, no one but my friends who see them on my tool box ask about them. I'm working in BC, now and ASE's are pretty non-existant here.

 

[ptschram]

Although now retired I am A1-8 plus L1 and Master Machinest Certified.

ASE dropped the machinist cert. after the most recent round of testing. I wanted to get it before it went away but SWMBO didn't see the benefit and she was right, it was an ego-only thing.

You're lucky you got it while it still existed.

 

[Krawlin98ZJ]

When my previous employer was offering to pay the testing fees I went and took a handful of tests. But after I easily passed 5 out of 5 tests without even a cursory glance at any sort of study material my opinion of "ASE Certified" was greatly diminished. Now I just have a few certificates in a drawer somewhere and a few extra lines on my resume.

 

[diesel research]

. Now I just have.....a few extra lines on my resume.

In todays market, that is what matters. Lines on resume. I was talking to an older coworker who is 52. He has worked 4 jobs in his life. I laughed and remarked "I may have a fourth one for this year alone"

He kind of sighed and shook his head, while remarking "thing's just aint the way they used to be. Used to be you got a job out of highschool and retired, I was only a few years short of full pension."

He didn't need to concern himself with certifications. Job was secure and pay was "good enough". Once he found himself on the street, having only worked at 1 place, in a new and strange world, having no credentials, he found that life had become a lot tougher.

If you have already been somewhere for quite sometime, and KNOW you will continue to be, they may not be very important, since your character and performance speaks for itself. If you may find yourself a product of current/future situations, they certainly may be the tool used to gain employment or desired salary. Prior experience alone isn't as effective, because it is hard to prove in an office.

 

[jrherald420]

Just got done taking my A1 and A8 Tests, My A6 is on Tuesday. Around here ASE gets you in the door and let the dealer know you can store info in your head, letting them know you could do there training and not waste their money to train you.......again. Ive got 5 classes left before i get my degree and i think the chances are slim ill even do auto repair for a living. As far as it being a tool, not really, its more like the gold star next to your name when you were in Kindergarden, it just makes you feel good to see it there.

 

[Bullet_101]

Here in Canada, ASE's are literally useless. The only thing anyone, anywhere cares about is your red seal, which you get after your 4th year of apprenticeship. It is literally a fight every step of the way to get an apprenticeship and have a honest boss that won't screw you out of hours/ going back to school to keep profits (as he loses a tech for 8 weeks four times).

However if you look for jobs as a AST up here, 90% want journeyman status red seal techs.. no im not bitter, at all

 

[Toolhorder]

People that say they are worthless I've found don't have them because they can't pass the tests or they don't care about being a professional tech.
These are usually the guys who don't buy quality tools, show up late everyday, can't keep a job with 1 dealer very long, complain constantly about how everyone is screwing them over, etc..

I had my Master/L1 but a couple have lapsed and I haven't had time to get retested. Waiting for the computer based testing actually.
I can tell you I got a good job with the local city I live in and they were impressed with the master cert. I had in my resume. You have to shoot higher then jimbob's independent garage if you want to see if they matter or not.

 

[Toolhorder]

Here in Canada, ASE's are literally useless. The only thing anyone, anywhere cares about is your red seal, which you get after your 4th year of apprenticeship. It is literally a fight every step of the way to get an apprenticeship and have a honest boss that won't screw you out of hours/ going back to school to keep profits (as he loses a tech for 8 weeks four times).

However if you look for jobs as a AST up here, 90% want journeyman status red seal techs.. no im not bitter, at all

Nobody cares what the hinge heads do up there.

 

[shampoop]

People that say they are worthless I've found don't have them because they can't pass the tests or they don't care about being a professional tech.
These are usually the guys who don't buy quality tools, show up late everyday, can't keep a job with 1 dealer very long, complain constantly about how everyone is screwing them over, etc..

That's the feeling I get as well. Right after my tech school ended I got a job at a local dealership. They acted soo amazed that I passed all 6 of the ASE's I took first try. They said most people who apply for the entry level positions act like they're not a big deal. First thing I thought of was that most people can't pass them. Pretty positive the tests were main reason why I got the job.

 

[Wrenches of Death]

These are usually the guys who don't buy quality tools, show up late everyday, can't keep a job with 1 dealer very long, complain constantly about how everyone is screwing them over, etc.

It wasn't all that many years ago that most places would fire you if you either showed up late three times without having a pretty good reason, or didn't show up at all one day, without calling and having a really damn good reason for not being there.

I can still remember the condition of some of those guys that dragged themselves in on Monday mornings after a solid weekend of drinking. They looked and felt like ****, but they were there, because they needed the job. They didn't get a whole lot done that day, but they were there.

WoD

 

[Toolhorder]

That's the feeling I get as well. Right after my tech school ended I got a job at a local dealership. They acted soo amazed that I passed all 6 of the ASE's I took first try. They said most people who apply for the entry level positions act like they're not a big deal. First thing I thought of was that most people can't pass them. Pretty positive the tests were main reason why I got the job.

If you can afford to take them then I would. I have to recert. two of mine to get my Master cert. current plus I need the L1. That's a couple hundo right there then in order to renew my CA. smog license I need the ASE's just mentioned plus two update 8 hour courses which are $250 a pop. I'm looking at almost $1k for "paper" on my resume. Does it mean I'm a good tech? Maybe. Continuing education is important if you want to be in the know. Do I need it to do timing belts and brakes all day? Nope.
Many indy shops don't do complex repairs I've found so maybe they can get by on a 20 year old education and a job education where you work on cars 10 years old or above. Personally I think these guys are below the top rung on the mechanic ladder but that's just me.