Does Anybody Stick Weld Anymore?

[dnschmidt]

I've been asked to evaluate the welding program at a local community college and in my opinion this program is geared toward 1955. There is a heavy emphasis on stick welding and on Ox-Acetylene welding and to me these are both artifacts of the industrial revolution. MIG and TIG are covered but much more briefly and in far less depth than I think they should be. Most of the class consist of welding 1/4" coupons with stick (and they use that crappy 6013 electrode instead of 7014 or 7018 both of which I think are superior) and then it's on to Ox-Acetylene to weld 1/8" thick coupons which I think is stupid since I'd only use Ox-Acetylene for sheet metal as it takes too damn long to gas weld 1/8" coupons. If they want to teach me how to gas weld up a muffler I'm OK with that. For 1/8" plate I've got an HTP Propulse 200. Ox-Acetylene cutting was a 10 minute demo with no student hands on. To me that's the primary purpose of gas today.

The only people that I know of that routinely use stick are pipe welders and I'm way too old to be working in a refinery. In Germany they have pulse MIG and pulse Stick and a lot of advanced welding technology in their schools. Here in American we're teaching students skills that they needed in 1940 to weld tanks together. Another reason we're falling behind.

 

[fordkid88]

Self taught here, I started with wire feed for the first few years and the got my hands on a cheap lincoln buzz box and that really improved my welding abilities. So I would say its not dead, its pretty useful and viable.

 

[Farmer J.]

I still use stick welding for repairs to rusty dirty old farm machinery because the arc can burn through the crud, apart from that everyone says it's hardly used. I never did get the hang of gas welding and no point learning it now since MIG came along..

 

[DetroitDIESEL444]

Stick welding is great for outdoors where wind doesnt blow away the shielding gas, great on dirty metal. I think its easier to get a good penetrating weld. Im the only one at work that still stick welds, everyone else seems to prefer the mig

 

[duhicky]

Vast majority of field construction is done with stick and mig. Stick is and will always be more popular in field construction for many reasons. A 6 pack of welders can be placed close to its power source and a welder only has to spend time running a lead to his work and then a 10lb rod caddy. Mig requires lead, head cable, and gas line. Then the welder has to lug the suitcase up stairs or scaffold ladder in addition to a 40lb spool of wire. Now you have to deal with liners, tips, cups, and keeping your whip straight enough to run smooth. In addition to all that you now have to make sure there are no drafts or wind if your out side. If there is go get the plastic out and build a tent and hope safety doesn’t try and call it a confined space.

 

[Htscheg]

almost every pipeline is stick welded so Id say yes its still relevant

 

[jumbojak]

I still use stick welding for repairs to rusty dirty old farm machinery because the arc can burn through the crud, apart from that everyone says it's hardly used. I never did get the hang of gas welding and no point learning it now since MIG came along..

That's what we do too. Been considering a wire welder but we would be using flux core almost exclusively. When you're stuck working outside stick is still very useful.

 

[1/2 Cup]

IMHO, Stick welding will always have its place...

 

[WittHay]

Is the college program a welding course for the trades or evening classes for backyard welding.

If for the trades, don't you learn with the old hard stuff first and then refine your skills on whatever your job requires. Like wanting to be a truck driver, you should know how to drive a standard even though tons of automatic trucks out there.

 

[rustbucket5]

stick welding has its place and we use it occasionally but mig is more important i would say. gas welding is good practice just for understanding and practicing with puddles. i took HD mechanics and it was the same as you describe and it didnt help much since mig is used 99% of the time. they didnt even let us touch a mig machine

 

[Fbmoose48]

Stick welding will die right after manual screwdrivers

 

[dnschmidt]

It's a night course where most of the students are as old as I am (65). Don't think many of these guys will be welding pipelines anytime soon.

 

[buffalobill]

Lol, I dunno what I'd do without a stick welder at work, mig is nice for little stuff, but won't cut it on dirty rusty stuff...

 

[unslow1]

The night courses here focused on MIG welding auto body panels. Most of the guys that were taking it were doing home restorations not looking to start a trade. My Grandfather took it before starting the restorations of his last cars. They did cover the other types but concentrated mostly on light MIG welding. When I took it in the late 80's to early 90's they were nearly all stick and gas. We barely touched a MIG and never a TIG.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I have a Miller 250 and a Lincoln 255 wire feeds; but the 225 amp Lincoln Tombstone that cost Me $99.99 back in 1975 still gets used regularly. I would be lost without it for many of the reasons that have been stated.

 

[Alchymist]

A lot of the skill involved with gas welding transfers over to TIG welding.

 

[dr_clyde]

Oxy-acetylene welding and stick welding are critical learning tools. They are welding fundamentals. There is a reason they teach those to beginners. They teach heat input, muscle control and puddle dynamics way better than a MIG welder or TIG welder. Once you understand the basics of welding, gas and stick, the rest comes easily.

Walk before run.

I went to college for welding. I took extensive courses. And they make you take oxy-acetylene and stick welding first for a reason. Because it's the best way to learn.

And while oxy-acetylene welding isn't super common, stick welding is commonplace in industry. Construction, field repair, pipefitting, out of position work, and countless other niche applications.

 

[dr_clyde]

As far as 6013, that's a rod designed for thinner metal, and is very easy to run. It is a good rod to start on. It's also very available, sold at places like tractor supply. So it's a fair rod to use to teach hobbiests, as it's probably what they're gonna use.

Industry uses mostly 6010 and 7018.

 

[Sjfab]

I’d be willing to bet that there’s more stick welders out there than mig welders. I’m a pipefitter by trade and we only use stick welding on the job. Main reason is convenience. I can grab our miller max star 150 and an extension cord and weld on a small 1/8” thick bracket in about 5 minutes. Takes me longer to put the welder back in the box.

Schools start out with the basics. Gas welding is the most basic. That’s why you push puddles. Start tig welding and you get brought back to your days in the welding booth at trade school pushing puddles. Once you push puddles for a few plates, you add filler and so on.

The stick welder won’t be going anywhere for a long time.

 

[royce]

I agree with dr clyde, there is so much learned from gas and stick welding that can be applied to the other processes and you will be a better hand for it

I would teach in this order;
1 Cutting torch, including scarfing.
2 Gas welding
3 6010 downhill
4 6010 uphill
5 7018 uphill
6 tig steel, then SS, then aluminum
7 mig hard wire
8 mig dual shied/ flux core

I'm going to ride this stick welding dinosaur to the end.

Royce

 

[Mhyde52]

Sounds like you could use some updating, but not by taking out O/A Welding and Stick. With those two "mastered" any wire feed and the gtaw process will be a breeze to move into. Without a heavy emphasis on O/A and Stick, the rest will take much more time, and many fundamental skills may be missed.

That said, if its a night class for hobbyists, there should probably be a little more variety mixed in. Our local welding school would allow anyone to jump into one of the core processes if they had the money. Unfortunately, the end goal of the training for the hobby guy was the same as the full time day student. Which was to pass a certain test, or tests, for each respective process. Not super helpful for a hobbyist to spend weeks upon weeks welding 1" plates with flux core.

 

[anndel]

When I was attending Auto Mech school at the community college, we were required to take 1 semester of welding and back in the 1980's it was ox-acetylene and arc (stick) welding. With the advent of TIG-MIG welding, I still believe all 4 should be taught equally - gas, stick, TIG and MIG as each has advantages/disadvantages.

 

[cliftonbros89]

All we have on the farm is a Lincoln stick welder. I’ve had my brother-in-law do a few quick small jobs for me that was some thin stuff the stick welder was too big for. My dad has done everything with that stick welder. He knows what he’s doing and it’s walls great results. Stick welder, torch, and a small plasma cutter is enough to get us by.


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[mowkep]

I believe our welder (welds at home out of his garage) uses rods to weld our magnesium weldments. I'll take a picture the next he welds one. He is very good at what he does.

 

[Sycan]

A Miller Bobcat 225 is all I use on my service truck. I keep 3 different diameters of 7018 for different thickness steel.

 

[PugetDude]

I gave away my Lincoln 225 Buzzbox in 2002 when I bought my first FCAW/MIG welder.
There have been many times over the past 15 years that I wished I had it back- they both have their place.

 

[AA/FC]

I took a welding class at a local tech school about 30 years ago. Same deal..... spent most of the year gas and stick welding. I remember asking the instructor.... "when are we going to start mig welding?" His answer was..... "Do you know what the harderst part of teaching MIG welding to a Monkey is? Teaching the Monkey to keep the welding helmet on."

I took that as.... we'll teach you the stuff that needs to be taught. You can figure out the easy stuff on your own.

 

[Roberts210]

I learned to stick weld in Ag. Shop too many years ago and still prefer it. Not everything I've welded comes out pristine, but if I mess it up I just grind the weld down and change some settings until the weld starts looking good.

 

[ALLFAST]

The school needs to reevaluate having the OP doing any reevaluation and bring in an actual expert in this extrememly important field of education.

 

[thooks]

Uh yes.

Pipe
Structural
Industrial


It flat out amazes me at how many people don’t have a clue about heavy industrial work.

 

[dnschmidt]

I'm a student and they gave out evaluation forms as the end of the class is fast approaching. Before I went off on how outdated I thought the course was I figured I should find out what others think. Here's what I think they should do to improve the class.

1) Start off with stick but midway through the stick program switch off from 6013 and get into 6010/6011 and 7018. Or blow off the 6013 altogether and go with 7014 which I feel is a much better all position rod.
2) For the gas welding use 1/16" coupons as 1/8" coupons take forever to weld and I can't see anybody welding 1/8" plate with gas.
3) We spent 6 weeks on stick, five weeks on gas and one week on MIG. Seems to me that one week should be stolen from stick and gas and added to MIG.

 

[Ign]

Oxy-acetylene welding and stick welding are critical learning tools. They are welding fundamentals. There is a reason they teach those to beginners. They teach heat input, muscle control and puddle dynamics way better than a MIG welder or TIG welder. Once you understand the basics of welding, gas and stick, the rest comes easily.

Walk before run.

I went to college for welding. I took extensive courses. And they make you take oxy-acetylene and stick welding first for a reason. Because it's the best way to learn.

And while oxy-acetylene welding isn't super common, stick welding is commonplace in industry. Construction, field repair, pipefitting, out of position work, and countless other niche applications.

This exactly. If you can walk it’s not a stretch to run.

Same for machining, learn to indicate a 4 jaw and tram a head before you’re allowed to touch CNC anything

 

[Mark in Indiana]

If you can stick weld and gas weld, you can easily pick up MIG & TIG welding. Also, for the amount of welding that I do, it doesn't make sense for me to have more than a good, quality brand buzz box and tank set.

 

[Bacon Man]

Like its been said on the farm it is useful, specially if you have a ways to go for a welding supply store.

We use stick welders for dock plates, bumpers, and guard rails at work. Very few guys know how to do it, so those who can always get screwed.

 

[Ign]

I'm a student and they gave out evaluation forms as the end of the class is fast approaching. Before I went off on how outdated I thought the course was I figured I should find out what others think. Here's what I think they should do to improve the class.

1) Start off with stick but midway through the stick program switch off from 6013 and get into 6010/6011 and 7018. Or blow off the 6013 altogether and go with 7014 which I feel is a much better all position rod.
2) For the gas welding use 1/16" coupons as 1/8" coupons take forever to weld and I can't see anybody welding 1/8" plate with gas.
3) We spent 6 weeks on stick, five weeks on gas and one week on MIG. Seems to me that one week should be stolen from stick and gas and added to MIG.

Every program is different. I started w both 6011 and 7018. With 6011 they taught us dig ‘n fill. With 7018 they taught us to weave.

There’s little reason to add any time to MIG it’s so stupid easy. If you’re a good stick welder (or weldor if you prefer) you can wire feed while browsing GJ on your phone w the other hand.

I live in the gas patch.....wanna know how they put pipelines together in the field? And I don’t think anyone’s building bridges w wire feed.

Our world is literally held together w stick welds from bridges to high steel.

 

[Farmall450]

Stick welding will die right after manual screwdrivers

That's a pretty fair comparison.

 

[Ign]

Like its been said on the farm it is useful, specially if you have a ways to go for a welding supply store.

We use stick welders for dock plates, bumpers, and guard rails at work. Very few guys know how to do it, so those who can always get screwed.

Plus wire feeds are temperamental....tips clog, liners wear, the drive roll mechanism isn’t meant to be in a dirty outdoor environment.

A stick welder has no moving parts, perfect for farms, etc. In a pinch you don’t even need actual welding rod. And stick welders can even cut if necessary, although it ain’t pretty farm fab rarely is

Hell in a pinch you don’t even need a stick welder, just a couple batteries and some jumper cables!

 

[619DioFan]

I was taught on a lincoln tombstone. this is what I am most comfortable using. for lighter stuff I have a hf flux core wire welder ( 110 v ) use lincoln wire in that. for my needs these cover all the bases as I am just a serious DIYer.

 

[dnschmidt]

Duckface, I'm not going to reproduce three single spaced typewritten pages. However I don't think it's a me problem or a their problem I think it's an us problem. As mentioned most of the "students" are guys my age that want to build things around the house with box tubing or angle iron or work on a classic car. The thickest metal we will ever weld in our lives (however much more time we've all got considering that most of us are on Medicare) would be 1/4" which any 220V MIG is easily able to handle with good penetration (My HTP Propulse 200 certainly can). If **** gets real it has a synergic dual shield program that makes welding 3/8" plate easy. Dual shield is the bomb. Also, Phoenix is not known as a big farming community. I live in North Phoenix off of Bell Road. I don't see many farms around here unless you consider golf courses farms. Paradise Valley High School where Glendale Community College conducts it's welding classes is not exactly in a rural area.

If we were trying to be professional welders I can see the heavy emphasis on stick. But few people that I'm aware of use stick to put on a quarter panel or weld 0.084 wall box tubing to build a workbench or make a barbecue or smoker. I think the audience should determine, to some degree, what the priorities should be.

 

[sberry]

I am a career welder. Its different than wanting to do hobby maintenance stuff. I could really do about all the work I do with a 200A feeder. I use stick for other reasons, field work, pull up on the apron, sometimes just cause I can. Great overhead.
But hard wire and gas isn't used on bridges, Innershield is. Its like 7018 on steroids with turbo boost. The quality can be even better, don't have to stop in bad places, can run way more power, rod doesn't change as it burns off. Lots of pipe done with it too. I talked to a carny guy, had a new TB and said its great but could have done without the feeder that became an expensive piece to haul around.
I don't have feeder on my service truck and use a Maxstar where I can. I havnt used gas weld in decades, wire feeder is so much easier faster and cheaper. I kind of agree, some classes could give up a week on it for mig. I agree for a young sprout wanting to be a career welder with field work and construction it pays to be a good stick welder that can pass tests.
This is still my go to shop stick unit, has a stinger that reaches a booth and the bench, has leads to work outdoor.