Does anyone have a "nice" breaker panel ?

[gjbuilder]

I have the same breaker panel you probably do ...


- crummy old primered metal sandwiching in chintzy, loose breakers

- breakers show 1/3 red normally and 2/3 red when broken ... never all red or black.

- no LED indicators for broken/unbroken

- no load or voltage indicator ... in fact, no indicators of any kind

- no ability to label, other than magic marker to the side of the breaker

- no outlets anywhere near the damned thing (god forbid)


But ... in my day job, at the datacenter, we have very very nice PDUs where the breakers are modular, they seat nicely, they have LED indicators, and you can put modular outlets / meters / breakers into a rackmount chassis ... and, surprise, you can label them!


This is the only thing I can find that matches that:


http://www.paneltronics.com/Power_Distribution_Panels.asp?op=19-Rack-Mount


Am I nuts ? Am I the only one that wants a power distribution that doesn't look like it came out of mad max ? Am I the only one that wants an outlet (gasp!) in my breaker box ?

Is this somehow not up to residential code ?

I am trying to find the reason not to install these ... not finding one yet ...

 

[cat06]

$$$$ most people wont pay the extra dollars for that, if you want it most manufacturers can supply you with what you want

 

[ddawg16]

This is mine



Still have some work to clean up the wiring.....proper labels....etc. For now, it's fine.

LED's look pretty....but don't make it work any better. If I trip a breaker, it's pretty obvious....**** is not working.

I figure sometime next spring when the list of tasks is getting short, I'll send the wife and kids away for the afternoon...kill the power....open a beer or two....break out the label maker....and get it all nice and purty.

 

[redmondjp]

If you want a nice home panel, get a Square-D QO with a copper bus. Also search this and other forums, as this topic has been discussed extensively.

One thing I will say about the data center PDUs - they may not have a very high AIC rating - this is the amount of current in amperes that the device can safely interrupt without failure (translation: explosion). Typical household electrical panels and devices are all rated for 10,000A - the devices will say "10K AIC" on them.

 

[Norcal]

I have the same breaker panel you probably do ...


- crummy old primered metal sandwiching in chintzy, loose breakers

- breakers show 1/3 red normally and 2/3 red when broken ... never all red or black.

- no LED indicators for broken/unbroken

- no load or voltage indicator ... in fact, no indicators of any kind

- no ability to label, other than magic marker to the side of the breaker

- no outlets anywhere near the damned thing (god forbid)


But ... in my day job, at the datacenter, we have very very nice PDUs where the breakers are modular, they seat nicely, they have LED indicators, and you can put modular outlets / meters / breakers into a rackmount chassis ... and, surprise, you can label them!


This is the only thing I can find that matches that:


http://www.paneltronics.com/Power_Distribution_Panels.asp?op=19-Rack-Mount


Am I nuts ? Am I the only one that wants a power distribution that doesn't look like it came out of mad max ? Am I the only one that wants an outlet (gasp!) in my breaker box ?

Is this somehow not up to residential code ?

I am trying to find the reason not to install these ... not finding one yet ...

That rack mounted panel is not going work for a residential panel. If your willing spend bucks, a panelboard is much better then a residential loadcenter (they are both listed as panelboards though).



Has generous gutter space, the backfed main does not require a hold down/ retainer kit in that panel. A SQ D NQOB panelboard that uses QO or QOB breakers has a Visi-Trip® indicator that has a red flag when the breaker trips, the panel pictured above is a GE A-Series panelboard, BTW I cannot see a receptacle mounted in a panel flying either. What is wrong with a receptacle mounted adjacent to, or below a panel?

 

[redmondjp]

Just for general information for those that don't know - the difference between a Square-D QO and QOB circuit breaker: The 'B' at the end designates a bolt-on circuit breaker instead of a stab-on.

The QO is the stab-on type, and the advantages of this type from a consumer standpoint are that they are widely available at just about every hardware store and home center, plus they are very affordable.

The bolt-on breakers will be at the electrical supply house only, and more expensive. Plus, you will either have to shut off the main breaker to install them, or use an insulated nut driver and do it live. I like the fact that I can install or remove a stab-on breaker without having to kill power to my entire house.

Where I work, we only specify QOB panels with 100% copper bus bars. We need high reliability in our power systems and are willing to pay for it. If somebody gave me one of these panels and all of the breakers to go with it, you bet I would install it in my house. But would I buy one for my house? No way - not worth the benefit. And I like the fact that I can drive to the Ace Hardware store a mile away and get any breakers I need for my house for $5-20 each (except for the arc fault ones, LOL).

 

[Norcal]

The NQOB panelboards accept either QO or QOB. Cutler-Hammer used to make a PB panelboard that took either CH plug-in, or CHB bolt-on, but was discontinued after Eaton bought the Westinghouse electrical division, so only SQ D offers a panelboard that accepts either plug-in, or bolt-on breakers.

 

[sberry]

Not everything you see at work is a good idea at home.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have the same breaker panel you probably do ...


- crummy old primered metal sandwiching in chintzy, loose breakers

- breakers show 1/3 red normally and 2/3 red when broken ... never all red or black.

- no LED indicators for broken/unbroken

- no load or voltage indicator ... in fact, no indicators of any kind

- no ability to label, other than magic marker to the side of the breaker

- no outlets anywhere near the damned thing (god forbid)


But ... in my day job, at the datacenter, we have very very nice PDUs where the breakers are modular, they seat nicely, they have LED indicators, and you can put modular outlets / meters / breakers into a rackmount chassis ... and, surprise, you can label them!


This is the only thing I can find that matches that:


http://www.paneltronics.com/Power_Distribution_Panels.asp?op=19-Rack-Mount


Am I nuts ? Am I the only one that wants a power distribution that doesn't look like it came out of mad max ? Am I the only one that wants an outlet (gasp!) in my breaker box ?

Is this somehow not up to residential code ?

I am trying to find the reason not to install these ... not finding one yet ...

Those are proprietary and only fit specific brand of rack.

What brand of electrical panel do u have?

 

[dkroth]

Mine.

 

[rlitman]

One thing I will say about the data center PDUs - they may not have a very high AIC rating - this is the amount of current in amperes that the device can safely interrupt without failure (translation: explosion). Typical household electrical panels and devices are all rated for 10,000A - the devices will say "10K AIC" on them.

Correct. At the data center I work at, each cabinet is fed by a Square D QOU breaker that says "10kA 240V~". But the PDU interruption rating inside each cabinet will be MUCH lower. Low enough that it would not be sufficient to use as a main panel in your house (unless you expect to trip your main regularly and have bad things happen).

The QOU breakers on the Starline Busway are fed by Square D JGA36225 (Good grief, why do I know this part number off the top of my head?) breakers in the UPS rooms with 65kA @240V~ ratings. Those are fed by computerized main breakers downstream of the UPS output transformers (computerized breakers delay opening in a predictable way for better coordination) of an even higher rating.

Not something that comes up in a residential setting, but AIC ratings for breakers depend on voltage. That large JGA36225 breaker with a 65kA rating at 240V is only rated 35kA at 480V, so on the higher voltage side of the house, we use different (and more expensive) equipment.

Not everything you see at work is a good idea at home.

Quite true!

 

[gjbuilder]

That rack mounted panel is not going work for a residential panel. If your willing spend bucks, a panelboard is much better then a residential loadcenter (they are both listed as panelboards though).



Has generous gutter space, the backfed main does not require a hold down/ retainer kit in that panel. A SQ D NQOB panelboard that uses QO or QOB breakers has a Visi-Trip® indicator that has a red flag when the breaker trips, the panel pictured above is a GE A-Series panelboard, BTW I cannot see a receptacle mounted in a panel flying either. What is wrong with a receptacle mounted adjacent to, or below a panel?

That's very nice - and much better than the crummy setup we have now (and that I am used to seeing in residential).

However I still think that some decent labeling/marking would be very helpful -typically it's just sharpie marker on the interior of the panel, or a tiny 3x5 card on the inside of the door ...

Further, while I *personally* don't need LED indicators on the breakers, it sure would help when the babysitter or the wife or .. whoever ... is trying to reset things while on the phone with you. That happens.

Finally, there's no indicators for usage or load or ... anything. Sometimes I really do need to know the power draw that the entire house is using, and it's common these days for folks to be measuring electricity usage for various efficiency purposes ... and the only sensible place to do it is right there in the panel. It would be cheap and easy to build that in, but doesn't exist ...

These seem like no-brainers to me ...

 

[gjbuilder]

That rack mounted panel is not going work for a residential panel. If your willing spend bucks, a panelboard is much better then a residential loadcenter (they are both listed as panelboards though).

Can you elaborate ? Is that just because inspectors will be confused ?

 

[redmondjp]

That's very nice - and much better than the crummy setup we have now (and that I am used to seeing in residential).

However I still think that some decent labeling/marking would be very helpful -typically it's just sharpie marker on the interior of the panel, or a tiny 3x5 card on the inside of the door ...

Further, while I *personally* don't need LED indicators on the breakers, it sure would help when the babysitter or the wife or .. whoever ... is trying to reset things while on the phone with you. That happens.

Finally, there's no indicators for usage or load or ... anything. Sometimes I really do need to know the power draw that the entire house is using, and it's common these days for folks to be measuring electricity usage for various efficiency purposes ... and the only sensible place to do it is right there in the panel. It would be cheap and easy to build that in, but doesn't exist ...

These seem like no-brainers to me ...

I agree with you, but don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen on branch circuit panels. Everything today is about minimizing cost, not about adding features (unless code-mandated). I could write an entire paper on how high-efficiency gas furnaces have been "value-engineered" over the past 20 years, as another example.

You know what else seems like a much bigger no-brainer to me? Having the NEC require a whole-house surge arrester, to protect the thousands of dollars' worth of electronic control circuit boards in all of the major appliances. Why don't they? Because industry likes to sell stuff. Call me cynical, but that's what drives things these days.

 

[csp]

Further, while I *personally* don't need LED indicators on the breakers, it sure would help when the babysitter or the wife or .. whoever ... is trying to reset things while on the phone with you. That happens.

How often are your breakers needing to be reset? We haven't had one pop in several years.

The description of what you have makes it sound like you just need a panel that's current, instead of fancy.

 

[redmondjp]

How often are your breakers needing to be reset? We haven't had one pop in several years.

The description of what you have makes it sound like you just need a panel that's current, instead of fancy.

I like the pun you unintentionally included there!

It could well be a problem with the sometimes-flaky arc fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) breakers, known to cause nuisance tripping when certain electrical loads are fed from them (typically universal motors on which the commutator brush arcing fools the breaker into thinking there is a fault - these motors are used in vacuum cleaners, blenders, etc.).

 

[1/2 Cup]

Here is my garage sub switchboard panel with the cover off. They are a little different to what you guys would be used to.

View media item 37412
Regards

 

[redmondjp]

Here is my garage sub switchboard panel with the cover off. They are a little different to what you guys would be used to.

View media item 37412
Regards

Thanks for sharing that! Love the DIN-rail-mounted breakers. That looks like an industrial control panel that would typically be seen in a manufacturing or processing plant.

 

[ishiboo]

I am putting a breaker panel on a PTO generator. Looked into DIN-rail as I also need a 100A contactor and a few electrical devices, and I have dual volt/amperage meters for each hot leg plus two hz meters (one on that panel, and one facing the PTO input for easier speed adjustment). My gut feeling is that bussed panels are the way to go. Getting one big feed to all the DIN devices seems like a pain in the *** at current levels above what a simple bus bar provides, plus to do both hots for 240v...

For a residential panel, standard panels seems to be a no-brainer. Not sure how much higher tech you want to look, very large installations use QO breakers on huge panels and don't look much different than the one in your home.

 

[hh76]

That's very nice - and much better than the crummy setup we have now (and that I am used to seeing in residential).

However I still think that some decent labeling/marking would be very helpful -typically it's just sharpie marker on the interior of the panel, or a tiny 3x5 card on the inside of the door ...

Further, while I *personally* don't need LED indicators on the breakers, it sure would help when the babysitter or the wife or .. whoever ... is trying to reset things while on the phone with you. That happens.

Finally, there's no indicators for usage or load or ... anything. Sometimes I really do need to know the power draw that the entire house is using, and it's common these days for folks to be measuring electricity usage for various efficiency purposes ... and the only sensible place to do it is right there in the panel. It would be cheap and easy to build that in, but doesn't exist ...

These seem like no-brainers to me ...

I think you're overestimating the number of people who would ever care about, or even be able to interpret load monitoring.

I've offered lower cost monitoring to many past customers, never sold well. And these were people who were purchasing solar arrays, so they were a little more interested than the average homeowners.

Most people would be a lot happier paying less, and never opening the door to the panel.

I do agree about labeling. Using sharpies makes for a horrible mess, especially when changes are made. I like to use cheep stick on labels, and leave a few extras for future changes.

 

[Dragfluid]

Mine.

Well, at least you have a meter in it.

As long as we're measurebating over panels, here's the sub for the apartment that's fed from the main in the shed. Not pretty, but it works.

 

[arsco]

B Y O or B R BL both in one panel hurts my head for some reason.

Im not a sparky

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That's very nice - and much better than the crummy setup we have now (and that I am used to seeing in residential).

However I still think that some decent labeling/marking would be very helpful -typically it's just sharpie marker on the interior of the panel, or a tiny 3x5 card on the inside of the door ...

Further, while I *personally* don't need LED indicators on the breakers, it sure would help when the babysitter or the wife or .. whoever ... is trying to reset things while on the phone with you. That happens.

Finally, there's no indicators for usage or load or ... anything. Sometimes I really do need to know the power draw that the entire house is using, and it's common these days for folks to be measuring electricity usage for various efficiency purposes ... and the only sensible place to do it is right there in the panel. It would be cheap and easy to build that in, but doesn't exist ...

These seem like no-brainers to me ...

It actually wouldnt be cheap nor eqsy to build that into panels. The cost to test and list something with an NTL such as UL labs is extraordinary. And why would a panel manufacturer bother to spend the thousands on R&D when most residential and commercial customers probably wouldnt be willing to spend the added cost on a panel with load monitoring.

On the contrary, u could build your own load monitoring using CTs and a read out.

Or buy a current clamp...

 

[gpflepsen]

I made an excel spreadsheet for the panel interior door surface. Sized 4"x7" and taped with clear packing tape. Makes a legible and changeable way to keep track of circuits.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[rockwithjason]

Am I nuts ? Am I the only one that wants a power distribution that doesn't look like it came out of mad max ? Am I the only one that wants an outlet (gasp!) in my breaker box ?

Is this somehow not up to residential code ?

I am trying to find the reason not to install these ... not finding one yet ...

you are totally out of touch with the general market. working in data centers spoils you quickly. very few people want or care about the things you mention.

 

[nwhomesteader]

Re: Does anyone have a "nice" breaker panel ?

This is like panel **** with the pictures...and why do I like it??? Lol

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

 

[pepi]

Well, at least you have a meter in it.

As long as we're measurebating over panels, here's the sub for the apartment that's fed from the main in the shed. Not pretty, but it works.

I am digging the patina.. really old school, best looking panel posted yet

 

[bczygan]

Mine.

Mine is similar.

I call it "Old Sparky!"

 

[mike93lx]

I made an excel spreadsheet for the panel interior door surface. Sized 4"x7" and taped with clear packing tape. Makes a legible and changeable way to keep track of circuits.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Wow, 3 circuits for your master bath?

Nice layout and great idea.

 

[sberry]

You may want an outlet below a panel but you do not need one in it. These are some great ideas to think about but really not correct for the application, your home is not a server rack. You want the common typical equipment found in homes.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I made an excel spreadsheet for the panel interior door surface. Sized 4"x7" and taped with clear packing tape. Makes a legible and changeable way to keep track of circuits.

If you dig around on the manufacturer's websites, they often have a template for the panel schedule that can be downloaded. Having said that, I agree it's easy enough to simply make your own using Excel or a word processing program.

 

[gpflepsen]

Wow, 3 circuits for your master bath?

Nice layout and great idea.

It's a master bath "suite". Two walk-in closets and small hallway outlet on a 15A, separate his/her vanities with separate 20A circuits.

Yes, even though she has her own vanity with two outlets, my vanity invariably hosts one of her hot hair tools... One gets hot to make hair dry, one gets hot to make hair curl, another gets hot to make hair straight. Crazy world!

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[MikeF2316]

I made an excel spreadsheet for the panel interior door surface. Sized 4"x7" and taped with clear packing tape. Makes a legible and changeable way to keep track of circuits.


Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

I made something that look almost identical, but I made the spacing match the breaker spacing. Then cut it in half lengthwise, and each breaker has it's purpose right beside it. But there's not room inside to make the wires as neat as I'd like to.

It's still a work in process, I'm adding a couple of outlets in the kitchen, and a couple of 3 way switches which will change which circuits certain lights are on. But the beauty is you can ink in your changes, go over to your computer, print a nice clean copy with your changes.

 

[Norcal]

You can always tell a Canadian panel by the lack of a door on the larger ones.

 

[86turbodsl]

I like a clean neat panel too. My panels are all Siemens, and i laid out my panel and wires carefully. I had the inspector in for final, he took one look at it and passed me. Workmanship counts too. Tells the AHJ that you care.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You may want an outlet below a panel but you do not need one in it. These are some great ideas to think about but really not correct for the application, your home is not a server rack. You want the common typical equipment found in homes.

Yeah Im still trying to figure out WHY he would want an outlet INSIDE his panel instead of below it. He would have to leave the cover off. Whats the point?

But what do i know?

 

[Norcal]

I assumed that the OP wanted a receptacle mounted in the panel front, not a good idea,IMHO.

 

[rlitman]

Yeah Im still trying to figure out WHY he would want an outlet INSIDE his panel instead of below it. He would have to leave the cover off. Whats the point?

But what do i know?

He's thinking in a different paradigm than you. That's why you're not getting it.
You're thinking within the lines of electrical/building code (which is completely reasonable, since codes exist for good reason), which provide a rigid structure for the "right" way to do things. They provide safe boundaries which can accommodate many ends, but are not the only means.
i.e. you're thinking in Erector Set, and the OP is thinking in Lego.

Here's are some examples of why you might want an outlet in your panel:

Say you wanted to test voltage at different points on the bus. An outlet on the panel would allow you to access this without removing the cover.

Or to power a work light for work in the panel (or a night light, status indication, safety warning, who knows what else...).

But the OP (and I) are not advocating to wire an outlet into a conventional panel (and I'm not saying that the above uses are useful to ME, but perhaps they are useful to someone, which is why providing the option makes some sense to me).
He's suggesting that as an example, a manufacturer could make a circuit breaker module with an outlet built in that you could plug into a more universally modular panel system.

 

[onthefence777]

I agree with you, but don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen on branch circuit panels. Everything today is about minimizing cost, not about adding features (unless code-mandated). I could write an entire paper on how high-efficiency gas furnaces have been "value-engineered" over the past 20 years, as another example.

You know what else seems like a much bigger no-brainer to me? Having the NEC require a whole-house surge arrester, to protect the thousands of dollars' worth of electronic control circuit boards in all of the major appliances. Why don't they? Because industry likes to sell stuff. Call me cynical, but that's what drives things these days.

I have a whole-house surge arrester that I had installed because I am very picky about what I buy, and anything I intend to buy I prefer to buy it just once. I lost an LCD monitor once before install, nothing since

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I can see where the OP is wanting a "tricked out" breaker box and his ideas are cool.......but the readers need to reminded, that the code is specific about what happens inside the breaker box enclosure. Adding a receptacle with any part of the receptacle/box penetrating in to a breaker box that was "not installed as part of the manufacturer's design" ...... gets questionable to the AHJ... Ammeters, CT's, voltmeters, yep, way cool .......but ?

I think many will agree that most times whenever there is a fire that destroys a home to the extent that it takes a thorough investigation by the fire investigation AHJ....., they go to the electrical systems first to look for the source of ignition.....

It will not take them long to see unapproved wiring measures/devices on or inside the breaker box. Nor will it take them long to find out if the box was the original or had been replaced with all the approved permits and inspections.... or not. All evidence that can/will be given to the owners insurance agent for their review if requested. Being too much of a worry wart here ? Maybe. But not totally void of the possibility of it happening. Why risk "tricking out" ones breaker box ? Just get one custom built by Sq. D if it has to be, with all the tricks listed above installed and UL listed and approved. JMO though