stockf7
Member
Just checking to see if anyone has geothermal in house or shop, any info on this would be good
Does anyone have geothermal heating?
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kd3pc
Well-known member
my father installed a three well system on his house when he built it 6-8 years ago.
4 zone heat and cool, pex and manifolds. His heat/cooling is $35-40 a month year round for a just under 4000 sq foot rambler, with a loop in the garage, which is just under 1000 sq ft. He used baseboard radiators with the exception of walmounts in the two bathrooms. The manifold, water exchanger and other equipment does take up some room in the basement when compared to conventional HVAC.
It was about 3 times the cost of a conventional heat pump, but has almost paid for itself in savings.
He has had two circulation pump failures (one was infant mortality, not sure about the second) in that time, other wise nary an issue.
If I had the budget, I would certainly use it, especially with fuel costs being what they are, and are sure to go up in the future.
4 zone heat and cool, pex and manifolds. His heat/cooling is $35-40 a month year round for a just under 4000 sq foot rambler, with a loop in the garage, which is just under 1000 sq ft. He used baseboard radiators with the exception of walmounts in the two bathrooms. The manifold, water exchanger and other equipment does take up some room in the basement when compared to conventional HVAC.
It was about 3 times the cost of a conventional heat pump, but has almost paid for itself in savings.
He has had two circulation pump failures (one was infant mortality, not sure about the second) in that time, other wise nary an issue.
If I had the budget, I would certainly use it, especially with fuel costs being what they are, and are sure to go up in the future.
Trey T
Well-known member
^How deep were the wells?
Streetbu
Well-known member
Definitely interested in this. Talked about it doing it when we tear down our current house and rebuild. We're currently on HHO :/
volleyball
Well-known member
I changed from electric baseboard to a warm air geothermal system. Had ductwork installed on both floors.
It has been in a few years now and I wish I had done it sooner. Was expensive but with 30% Fed tax credit, the payback is considerably shorter.
I have the 10 kw backup element in case the unit cannot keep up with extreme cold but with below zero, it has not been needed. Matter of fact, I have yet to install it.
Summer cooling is great. I get up to 5 gallons per day extracted so it is sized well.
I have 2 450' wells bored in my front yard. It was the only place I had and it was next to an old well head so I thought I'd hit a big well with it but no dice. 110' of clay then 340' of solid quartz-stone.
I can tell you having the right guy is the most important thing. Not that every detail was discussed with me from which unit, the size and how every duct and register was run.
I run the system 12 months a year due to anothers allergies, mostly allergic to hot and cold.
I have a 4 zone controller but only use 2 right now.
It has been in a few years now and I wish I had done it sooner. Was expensive but with 30% Fed tax credit, the payback is considerably shorter.
I have the 10 kw backup element in case the unit cannot keep up with extreme cold but with below zero, it has not been needed. Matter of fact, I have yet to install it.
Summer cooling is great. I get up to 5 gallons per day extracted so it is sized well.
I have 2 450' wells bored in my front yard. It was the only place I had and it was next to an old well head so I thought I'd hit a big well with it but no dice. 110' of clay then 340' of solid quartz-stone.
I can tell you having the right guy is the most important thing. Not that every detail was discussed with me from which unit, the size and how every duct and register was run.
I run the system 12 months a year due to anothers allergies, mostly allergic to hot and cold.
I have a 4 zone controller but only use 2 right now.
kd3pc
Well-known member
In winchester VA, they were just under 300' deep and spaced about 15-20' apart, a system I worked on in Roanoke, VA was just over 200' and they only had two wells, still spaced about 15 apart. The Winchester wells were standard 6" diameter and were filled with a transfer grout. Was not in Roanoke when the wells were dug.
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
IMHO, the best combination is geothermal and propane. Propane for heating water, cooking, drying clothes and some kind of back up heat (fireplace logs). With a big propane tank, you could also run a generator for backup electric.
turbowoodworker
Well-known member
We are installing it in our current build. We used horizontal trenches rather than vertical wells. No difference in performance and less expensive but you have to have the land to do it. I'll let you know how it works after a year. We move in in a couple of months.
volleyball
Well-known member
Funny you should say that as we had a gas dryer and bought a dual fuel mega range. And will be putting in a on demand water heater, which won't have to come on in summer due to the tap off from the geo system.
I actually had all the pies run when we decided on geo and had to tear half of it out as the ductwork needed to go there as I had the ducts running in the joist space to give me headroom in the basement. I am tall and had it with those low flying trunk lines.
After I repiped the lines, converted the appliances to LP, they are up and running.
But that has nothing to do with the backup heater. Just like the cheaper air heat pumps, there comes a time when you cannot extract enough heat that it becomes efficient. Then the backup kicks in. The unit was really cheap. So I bought it. And I still have half the original baseboard to use.
volleyball
Well-known member
Your frost line is a lot closer to the surface than mine. Plus you have the room. I didn't. I live on a hill and a lot of my land is unsuitable. Plus the soil would have been a problem. Plus I have a mature lot that I wasn't willing to lose. I already have a septic field I cannot use, a second one for the geo loops was impossible.
I should also mention that I had my wells drilled deeper than what was suggested. You only have one shot at doing this and like your garage, you always wish you went bigger. The extra cost of drilling is offset by not needing the expensive aux heater.
soapii
Well-known member
I have a closed loop horizontal geothermal system in our house. Typical forced air. Unit has a 10kW backup coil too but it never turns on. We keep the house at 68* all day everyday. The unit itself is a Bryant GT-PX.
We have natural gas service at the house but it is only used for the water heater and the dryer, stove is electric. Natural gas also runs the radiant tube in the garage and the 20kW whole house backup generator.....when they turn on of course.
--Joe
We have natural gas service at the house but it is only used for the water heater and the dryer, stove is electric. Natural gas also runs the radiant tube in the garage and the 20kW whole house backup generator.....when they turn on of course.
--Joe
mygarageone
Well-known member
I for the life of me can not figure out how you can save money when the initial equipment and install is so high ? The pay back in my opinion is way to long when there is Nat gas available. And before it's payback is meet , you are looking at new equipment , not to mention the high cost of service when needed !
I have removed several of these units and installed hi eff nat gas units and the cust always comes Out ahead. One of them even worked for the Elec power company.
I have removed several of these units and installed hi eff nat gas units and the cust always comes Out ahead. One of them even worked for the Elec power company.
soapii
Well-known member
You may be right, I don't know of anyone be who has had both running at the same time to make an equal comparison.
For a retrofit I agree the cost may take longer to recoup. In my case we built new and plan to stay here forever. I was able to compare the new cost of both prior to deciding and in my case the recoup will only be a few years....and even quicker if we keep having winters like we are having. Also you are forgetting that you have the option of getting a discounted electric rate (and separate meter) for geothermal heating.
I kept my house at 68 all last month and it was brutally cold, single digit highs and windy for most of the month.....my heating electric bill was $87.
--Joe
Not worth it IMO…
Lets say you spend $25000 on loop and indoor equipment. That is not an unrealistic number, thats not including ductwork.
Lets also figure a real nice air to air 2 stage heat pump and 98% gas furnace. $10000 would be on the middle to upper end of that without ductwork.
Lets also say we are going to get 20 years of service out of them. That isn't an unrealistic number at all, especially for the geo…
Theres 240 months in 20 years and lets say you're gonna save an average of $50 a month on heating and cooling costs. Thats only $12k you saved over 20 years… Spent more than that on the install...
Lets say you spend $25000 on loop and indoor equipment. That is not an unrealistic number, thats not including ductwork.
Lets also figure a real nice air to air 2 stage heat pump and 98% gas furnace. $10000 would be on the middle to upper end of that without ductwork.
Lets also say we are going to get 20 years of service out of them. That isn't an unrealistic number at all, especially for the geo…
Theres 240 months in 20 years and lets say you're gonna save an average of $50 a month on heating and cooling costs. Thats only $12k you saved over 20 years… Spent more than that on the install...
These numbers are pretty damn close IMO. It's a lot of damn money to put out up front and the returns are not worth it.
^ Have a client looking to put 2000 SF onto an existing 3700 SF house, which currently has geo. Theres no nat' gas out where he is, so the options are geo & propane. Numbers from the sub show the same as above : in a 20 yr span you won't recoup the initial install. This is for a vertical well system here in Jersey. Michigan is a bunch colder- ROI should happen sooner... but soon enough?
When I move to a house I plan on living in forever, I intend on going to a horizontal geo system. Around here 1/3 to 1/2 the price is in the excavation / running of the loops, and I can do all that for the price of the PE tubing, so I see the ROI coming much quicker for me than the average person
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rburke65
Well-known member
No......no one has geothermal heating.
98ssuck
Well-known member
As a hvacr apprentice I have only ever seen two geothermal systems in the 4 years I have been in the trade. The frist system the geothermal part had been previously disconnected from rest of the heating system because it didn't work reliably, the owner just used the backup boiler full time. The second I ripped out because it didn't work reliably and was replaced by a boiler. Personally I like the idea of geothermal systems but they are big investment. For the price of a geothermal system in my area you could install a radiant floor system with a electric boiler and enough solar pannels to run it all
Streetbu
Well-known member
Only save $50/month? LOL We will spend almost $3,000 to heat our house this winter! Betcha If we switched to geothermal we'd save A LOT more than $50/month!
TractorJeff
Well-known member
Volleyball
What state are you in?
Curious minds want to know!
What state are you in?
Curious minds want to know!
kd3pc
Well-known member
My dad's system does not save $50 a month, that is what he pays per month.
heat/cool 4000 sq ft avg cost is $50 a month, vs well over $220 a month. Savings at least $150-200 a month over heat pumps his neighbors have on smaller homes.
My heat last month (granted had some single digit days) in TN, doubled to $240. And we have pretty cheap electric rates since TVA. Last year in VA, with home heating oil...fuel oil alone was almost a $1K per month for 4 winter months and electric charges up to run the blowers almost full time
$200 a month savings comes out to $2400 yearly, 7 years installed, $16,800 saved....system was just under $20K so payoff will be soon.
Two circ pumps replaced..in that time, and system life is approaching 30 years with regular maintenance.
To 98SS, you can't build enough solar to run a 4K sq ft HVAC system for much less than what the geothermal costs, you need batteries to run it all over night or heavy loads, then the inverters and combiners cost, and very few of the inverters last more than two or three years in heavy use. Same for very big batteries.
Doesn't get much better than that.
heat/cool 4000 sq ft avg cost is $50 a month, vs well over $220 a month. Savings at least $150-200 a month over heat pumps his neighbors have on smaller homes.
My heat last month (granted had some single digit days) in TN, doubled to $240. And we have pretty cheap electric rates since TVA. Last year in VA, with home heating oil...fuel oil alone was almost a $1K per month for 4 winter months and electric charges up to run the blowers almost full time
$200 a month savings comes out to $2400 yearly, 7 years installed, $16,800 saved....system was just under $20K so payoff will be soon.
Two circ pumps replaced..in that time, and system life is approaching 30 years with regular maintenance.
To 98SS, you can't build enough solar to run a 4K sq ft HVAC system for much less than what the geothermal costs, you need batteries to run it all over night or heavy loads, then the inverters and combiners cost, and very few of the inverters last more than two or three years in heavy use. Same for very big batteries.
Doesn't get much better than that.
Will S.
Well-known member
I'm very interested in this thread, as we are still heating with the original DuCane oil-fired hot air furnace installed in 1996. Other than cleaning, some nozzle replacements and one blower motor, it has not needed service. I heat 2550 sf, and with the high cost of heating oil these days, it costs me about $1500/yr to heat. We have had an exceptionally cold winter.
I've been thinking about what to replace this ageing system with, and know a neighbor who has gone geothermal. But it ended up costing him $35k when all was done, and he has spent more on maintenance and service in 3 years, than I have spent in 16. So I don't think I will even see a payback with geo. I'm 68.
Maybe a hi-eff conventional heat-pump, with oil backup? I got a price quote for a new oil-fired hot air furnace last week, and the unit, without labor (which I can do), was about $1600. If I replace my old 3.5T AC with a heatpump, I have 2 new heating systems; HP primary and oil backup, and the HP is also higher efficience A/C, all for around $10k.
I've been thinking about what to replace this ageing system with, and know a neighbor who has gone geothermal. But it ended up costing him $35k when all was done, and he has spent more on maintenance and service in 3 years, than I have spent in 16. So I don't think I will even see a payback with geo. I'm 68.
Maybe a hi-eff conventional heat-pump, with oil backup? I got a price quote for a new oil-fired hot air furnace last week, and the unit, without labor (which I can do), was about $1600. If I replace my old 3.5T AC with a heatpump, I have 2 new heating systems; HP primary and oil backup, and the HP is also higher efficience A/C, all for around $10k.
Streetbu
Well-known member
Tell me about it! HHO is expensive, just went up again to $4.159/gallon
GPark
Member
I install geothermal systems at work, maybe I could answer some questions. Both the owners of the company have it installed at their houses and our shop as well. In five years we have done about 1000 installations.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
It is true that if natural gas is available, the pay back time will be a lot longer than oil or propane.
You live in Munising, MI near the shore of Lake Superior. How many days a year would some one run their heat pump in A/C mode ? A dozen ? Certainly less than 2 dozen ! And over night cooling is pretty much unheard of up there ! Cooling is where heat pumps, either air sourced or ground water sourced, really shines and pays back.
volleyball
Well-known member
I am in Upstate NY. A place of high energy costs.
The payback will be less than twenty years. And if I need a new unit, I only have to get a new unit and some ducting to make it fit.
I had all electric house and for 20 years and changing to anything else had an over 20 year payback. Oil, LP, solar, wood, and Voodoo. I and no pro could ever come up with a better number. They all thought they could.
My journey started with a need to filter and condition the air in warm weather. It hurt me as I have great cross ventilation and did not install my window units most years.
But with getting my woman to move in, I had to do something. Window units were out. Through the wall units were not good and not deemed ascetically pleasing.
Now I had to add ductwork to a 2 story 2k sf colonial. First thought was just an A/C unit but then realized a heap pump would pay back for the transition months.
Had an unused well and thought I could use it, no drilling. Found out about the tax credits.
So depending on how you look at it, the difference cost pay back is less than ten years, the total cost less than 20.
Plus I don't get hit with price jumps due to shortage. Anyone got hit with a LP or oil price spike or shortage.
My unit has a 10 year warranty, Hydron Module, so not service costs. The only issue I had was the sensor for the zone control failing and a call to the company, they sent me a few of their new design which I installed.
My guy went and got a unit like mine to replace his 20 year old unit which was still working fine because the one I have was designed for northern climates.
With its variable speed blower and 2 stage operation, you can easily tell how much more comfortable it is with 2 thermostats than the 10 I had with the baseboard.
Part of my satisfaction has to do with the new ductwork. It is a thing of beauty if you are into that sort of thing. It cost extra for all the custom work and time to install but well worth it to me.
The payback will be less than twenty years. And if I need a new unit, I only have to get a new unit and some ducting to make it fit.
I had all electric house and for 20 years and changing to anything else had an over 20 year payback. Oil, LP, solar, wood, and Voodoo. I and no pro could ever come up with a better number. They all thought they could.
My journey started with a need to filter and condition the air in warm weather. It hurt me as I have great cross ventilation and did not install my window units most years.
But with getting my woman to move in, I had to do something. Window units were out. Through the wall units were not good and not deemed ascetically pleasing.
Now I had to add ductwork to a 2 story 2k sf colonial. First thought was just an A/C unit but then realized a heap pump would pay back for the transition months.
Had an unused well and thought I could use it, no drilling. Found out about the tax credits.
So depending on how you look at it, the difference cost pay back is less than ten years, the total cost less than 20.
Plus I don't get hit with price jumps due to shortage. Anyone got hit with a LP or oil price spike or shortage.
My unit has a 10 year warranty, Hydron Module, so not service costs. The only issue I had was the sensor for the zone control failing and a call to the company, they sent me a few of their new design which I installed.
My guy went and got a unit like mine to replace his 20 year old unit which was still working fine because the one I have was designed for northern climates.
With its variable speed blower and 2 stage operation, you can easily tell how much more comfortable it is with 2 thermostats than the 10 I had with the baseboard.
Part of my satisfaction has to do with the new ductwork. It is a thing of beauty if you are into that sort of thing. It cost extra for all the custom work and time to install but well worth it to me.
LennyTheLizard
Well-known member
I installed geothermal in June 2011 and love it.
I have about 1400 sq ft main floor + fully finished basement (conditioned but not controlled by thermostat). Before geothermal, we had 100% electric cental A/C and Resistance Furnace. Electric bills were hitting $400-500 / month for coldest and hottest months (about 6 months of the year).
No natural gas is available in country, and propane has a pretty big price swing.
I was planning to put in Outdoor wood boiler for both house and shop. Although it was going to cost ~$10,000 and would only provide heat (plus I had to cut firewood on someone elses land).
My A/C went out so I started investigating geothermal. Installed horizontal ground loop, geothermal heat pump with hot water heater coil. I didn't realize how much money goes into the hot water heater every month!
I keep the thermostat on 71 cold side 76 warm side (about the same as old furnace). My December electric bill was $193. According to HVAC company, I would save ~$200 / month on electric bill (Conditioning + Water Heater). I'm actually saving an average of ~$150 / month, but I haven't finished putting in the recommended insulation in the attic.
System installed (3 ton) - $13,570
30% Federal Tax Credit - $4,071
Utility credit - $450 ($150 / ton)
ROI = 9049 / $150 (60.3 months payback)
No work to keep house conditioned (except clean filter 1/month)
One of the most expensive parts is the ground loop install. I wish I would have had a second set of lines put in and ran to my shop while they were at it!
I have about 1400 sq ft main floor + fully finished basement (conditioned but not controlled by thermostat). Before geothermal, we had 100% electric cental A/C and Resistance Furnace. Electric bills were hitting $400-500 / month for coldest and hottest months (about 6 months of the year).
No natural gas is available in country, and propane has a pretty big price swing.
I was planning to put in Outdoor wood boiler for both house and shop. Although it was going to cost ~$10,000 and would only provide heat (plus I had to cut firewood on someone elses land).
My A/C went out so I started investigating geothermal. Installed horizontal ground loop, geothermal heat pump with hot water heater coil. I didn't realize how much money goes into the hot water heater every month!
I keep the thermostat on 71 cold side 76 warm side (about the same as old furnace). My December electric bill was $193. According to HVAC company, I would save ~$200 / month on electric bill (Conditioning + Water Heater). I'm actually saving an average of ~$150 / month, but I haven't finished putting in the recommended insulation in the attic.
System installed (3 ton) - $13,570
30% Federal Tax Credit - $4,071
Utility credit - $450 ($150 / ton)
ROI = 9049 / $150 (60.3 months payback)
No work to keep house conditioned (except clean filter 1/month)
One of the most expensive parts is the ground loop install. I wish I would have had a second set of lines put in and ran to my shop while they were at it!
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mygarageone
Well-known member
You pretty much nailed the AC days of use , most times 5 - 7 days if you live in land . If on the water seldom at all.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I have spent some cold nights camping not far from Munising in July !
mygarageone
Well-known member
That can be the down side to being near or on this lake , most nites are fairly nice but we have had snow a few times during the 4th of July week end. But most times the days are warm and the nite's are cool , great sleeping weather.
Just in case you are interested , we have a large classic car show and cruise in the 3rd wk end of Sept. Last yrs show brought in 85 cars of every type you can think of.
Streetbu
Well-known member
Well in Upstate NY we had one of the hottest summers on record last year. We were over 90 degree's for about 15 different days. We need a/c & heat, sometimes in the same week LOL
Dick in Wisconsin
Well-known member
I own a house in Shawano Wisconsin (25 miles NW of Green Bay). My parents built the house in 1955. A ground water (geothermal) heat pump was installed at that time. House is wired for 480 three phase, a 7.5hp motor ran the compressor, the air handler was 220 three phase as was the well pump. The house is on a river and the water is discharged into the river. No NG was available. Only oil or electricity. Shawano has municipal electrical utility so I think rates were and probably are a little low.
I think the huge compressor was late 1930's technology (my Dad's business had the same compressor put in in 1947 ... so I figured that maybe no much changed in the compressor technology during WWII). The water tank with the copper coils was open. As I said before the water discharged via gravity into a river. Well water was around 52 or 54 degrees all year around. Everyone how ever saw this thing work were in just awe of it. It was really, really cool!
The old compressor was rebuilt a couple of times over the decades. It failed in 2001 (probably a seal as all the Freon escaped in a blue haze (oil)). Dad had put in a NG back up in the late 60s or so. In 2003 I acquired the house and installed a WaterFurnance. Pretty happy with it. The compressor failed after about five or so years and WaterFurnance completely replaced it NO CHARGE.
The tenant is happy with it.
I am NOT an engineer; but I've thought about, studied, ruminated, and read about geothermal for years.
Here is my take on geothermal.
1. If you already need a well, that is a plus. Our house is on city water, so the well was "extra".
2. If you have a way to easily get rid of the water ... permissible river, stream, lake, marsh, swamp, woods downhill, field, pond, etc. ... that is a plus.
3. If you don't have access to reasonably priced NG, that is a plus.
4. If you have "high" A/C requirements that is a plus.
5. If your electricity costs are cheap to reasonable, that is a plus.
6. If your A/C requirements are higher than your heating needs, that is kind of a plus.
Here is where I would NOT use geothermal:
High heating requirements (lots of below zero), very little A/C needs, NG in the street, moderate to high electrical costs, difficulty getting enough water, difficulty getting rid of the water (need for injection wells or a huge underground grid system), low ground water temp (I think mid 40's or lower).
Somewhere, someone has a model that takes this all into consideration.
Question to the Forum ... why isn't geothermal used more for A/C? I would think that is where the big bang for the buck is. Every time I see a house or commercial facility on a well, near a place to dump the water, with lots of glass and square footage and see the outside A/C units whirring away ... I think "why not geothermal?"
I think the huge compressor was late 1930's technology (my Dad's business had the same compressor put in in 1947 ... so I figured that maybe no much changed in the compressor technology during WWII). The water tank with the copper coils was open. As I said before the water discharged via gravity into a river. Well water was around 52 or 54 degrees all year around. Everyone how ever saw this thing work were in just awe of it. It was really, really cool!
The old compressor was rebuilt a couple of times over the decades. It failed in 2001 (probably a seal as all the Freon escaped in a blue haze (oil)). Dad had put in a NG back up in the late 60s or so. In 2003 I acquired the house and installed a WaterFurnance. Pretty happy with it. The compressor failed after about five or so years and WaterFurnance completely replaced it NO CHARGE.
The tenant is happy with it.
I am NOT an engineer; but I've thought about, studied, ruminated, and read about geothermal for years.
Here is my take on geothermal.
1. If you already need a well, that is a plus. Our house is on city water, so the well was "extra".
2. If you have a way to easily get rid of the water ... permissible river, stream, lake, marsh, swamp, woods downhill, field, pond, etc. ... that is a plus.
3. If you don't have access to reasonably priced NG, that is a plus.
4. If you have "high" A/C requirements that is a plus.
5. If your electricity costs are cheap to reasonable, that is a plus.
6. If your A/C requirements are higher than your heating needs, that is kind of a plus.
Here is where I would NOT use geothermal:
High heating requirements (lots of below zero), very little A/C needs, NG in the street, moderate to high electrical costs, difficulty getting enough water, difficulty getting rid of the water (need for injection wells or a huge underground grid system), low ground water temp (I think mid 40's or lower).
Somewhere, someone has a model that takes this all into consideration.
Question to the Forum ... why isn't geothermal used more for A/C? I would think that is where the big bang for the buck is. Every time I see a house or commercial facility on a well, near a place to dump the water, with lots of glass and square footage and see the outside A/C units whirring away ... I think "why not geothermal?"
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I don't think you can use a drinking water well for geothermal.
Many (most ?) geothermal units run a loop of pipe down the well. A bit more expensive, but no discharge (well) is required.
In some southern states, geothermal is MANDATORY for any new municipal construction (schools, etc).
I'm still surprised that there has NOT been a massive change over to geothermal in FL. Probably because the 5-10 year payback is longer than the owners might live !
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mopar4wd
Well-known member
My Aunt built here retirement house about 8 years ago she had a horizontal system put in. Shes in Western Mass in the middle of nowhere on a hillside (read very cold) No NG she uses propane for a gas fireplace not sure what the hot water is. House is well insulated. She told me when she had it done it cost her between 7-9k more than a standard system but she got some back in a tax credit I believe. She says when the system is heating in the dead of winter it costs them 35-45 more a month on the electric bill. To me that would be less than half my winter NG bill with my house being half the size of hers. Considering most of her neighbors heat with oil I think the savings would come in less than 10 years over an oil system.
volleyball
Well-known member
But very few would be stopped buying a $30k vehicle. And that won't last as long. But your HVAC system doesn't get you to work and back.
Another great thing about geo is that you don't do setbacks. So getting up in the middle of the night is as comfortable as in the morning. Just the savings of not having to buy nest devices shortens the payback period. Those things are pricey.
Another great thing about geo is that you don't do setbacks. So getting up in the middle of the night is as comfortable as in the morning. Just the savings of not having to buy nest devices shortens the payback period. Those things are pricey.
mygarageone
Well-known member
Though I am not a fan of geothermal , you nailed it about the $30 ,000 cars.
When people can not show off , brag , dream about the heating system , it's
Not important to them.
The heating industry has not done enough to promote high end equip as far as I am concerned and that is one reason selling equipment like this is an up hill battle.
I've built and lived in three different homes in the past twenty years, and all have had geothermal. Prior to building, I have lived in homes with natural gas and traditional AC, heat pump for both, fuel oil, coal, and even wood for heat with no AC. The heat pump was okay, but I lived in the north at the time, so supplemental heat in winter was expensive.
Here in Texas, cooling is used more than heating, and for that I wouldn't have any other system. The first Trane unit never had a single problem in ten years...none...zero. I did nothing to it or for it...except air filters. After about five years, I called the engineer who installed it and asked what I should do. He asked if it was still working and I told him it was. He said to call him when it wasn't.
With geothermal cooling I can sit on my patio and not have to listen to one or two screaming outdoor AC units all summer long. No leaves, no dust, no scorpions or wasp nests to clean out every couple of months. No $200 service calls twice a year.
The second house, with a Water Furnace unit, had a couple of installation wiring mistakes that were fixed under warranty, but the only maintenance was having to pour bleach in the drain pan to keep the drain clean.
I just moved into the third house...this time a Bosch system...and love the quiet heating and cooling. Most of the time I don't even know it's on.
Price?...high. Savings?...big in summer, not as much in winter. The installers quoted me eighteen years to pay out, but four hot summers in a row paid my first one off in less than ten years.
A friend installed a geothermal unit in a lake, and while it was cheaper than drilling wells, it's not quite as efficient. Fortunately he also installed solar panels, so he sells power all summer and has averaged $8 a month electric bills in the past three years. He estimates both his systems will be paid for in three to five more years.
Here in Texas, cooling is used more than heating, and for that I wouldn't have any other system. The first Trane unit never had a single problem in ten years...none...zero. I did nothing to it or for it...except air filters. After about five years, I called the engineer who installed it and asked what I should do. He asked if it was still working and I told him it was. He said to call him when it wasn't.
With geothermal cooling I can sit on my patio and not have to listen to one or two screaming outdoor AC units all summer long. No leaves, no dust, no scorpions or wasp nests to clean out every couple of months. No $200 service calls twice a year.
The second house, with a Water Furnace unit, had a couple of installation wiring mistakes that were fixed under warranty, but the only maintenance was having to pour bleach in the drain pan to keep the drain clean.
I just moved into the third house...this time a Bosch system...and love the quiet heating and cooling. Most of the time I don't even know it's on.
Price?...high. Savings?...big in summer, not as much in winter. The installers quoted me eighteen years to pay out, but four hot summers in a row paid my first one off in less than ten years.
A friend installed a geothermal unit in a lake, and while it was cheaper than drilling wells, it's not quite as efficient. Fortunately he also installed solar panels, so he sells power all summer and has averaged $8 a month electric bills in the past three years. He estimates both his systems will be paid for in three to five more years.