Does Building code or electrical code determine hole placement in studs?

[mm08822]

While nail plates will provide NEC compliance, the ICC also dictates a 5/8" minimum from the edge of a load bearing stud with a centered hole no more than 40% of the depth of stud.
Look up ICC requirements
IRC 6-1
R602.6
There are specs too for notches. However, only these 2 situations appear to be defined, so variations with other values don't exist.

What building code and cycle are you on?

If you pull out the micrometer to prove you are greater than 0.625", the inspector may come back with a magnifying glass. If you exceed the 5/8", be nice in how you approach. Explain you understand his concern, but just scweaked by with sheer luck. Make sure to not happen again.........promise.

 

[TimberMan]

Do the plans call for 2x6 for structural reasons or just insulation depth?

Our houses are designed at 2x4 but we use 2x6 for insulation.

I only used 2x6 for insulation purposes.

 

[Hank11]

What's the fix? Sister in another stud and drill in the correct places?

Well, of course, that would be too simple.

 

[larry4406]

Will the inspector accept a stud shoe for repair?

 

[BillK]

Were you present when the inspection was done ?

 

[mm08822]

Will the inspector accept a stud shoe for repair?

Not sure that would work in this case as the 3 holes are too close to each other. Are there longer versions?

 

[cmandp]

@mm08822 Op mentioned not having to meet building code. So while still good practice to adhere to, should not be a reason to deny the permit.

As far as the protector plate down in the corner missing for that one wire. Sure try and get it in if it appeases the inspector and to cover for doing anything weird with screws or nails there. Really i think the risk of piercing that cable with something is unlikely but who knows what will happen in the future with any renovations

 

[mm08822]

@mm08822 Op mentioned not having to meet building code. So while still good practice to adhere to, should not be a reason to deny the permit.

As far as the protector plate down in the corner missing for that one wire. Sure try and get it in if it appeases the inspector and to cover for doing anything weird with screws or nails there. Really i think the risk of piercing that cable with something is unlikely but who knows what will happen in the future with any renovations

So if it was just the electrical inspector failing the job claiming structural code issue non-compliance, then I would think he's out of jurisdiction. He's there to inspect for compliance to NEC only. Is he even qualified for structural code determinations?

 

[BillK]

So if it was just the electrical inspector failing the job claiming structural code issue non-compliance, then I would think he's out of jurisdiction. He's there to inspect for compliance to NEC only. Is he even qualified for structural code determinations?

Have you asked him in person exactly what failed ? If not, this entire conversation is a waste of time.

 

[Tracs]

We want updates

 

[afinepoint]

I failed my rough in electrical inspection because one hole for Romax was allegedly drilled within 5/8 of an inch of the stud edge. I’m gonna measure it because I don’t think it’s that close but if it is, does “building code” govern this dimension or does the NEC govern this dimension?

Thanks

Does it determine hole placement? Most definitely. Code also covers the size. You will need a nailing plate.

 

[logical]

I'd have fixed out of pure embarrassment and moved on the same day it was found.

 

[nadogail]

The wrath of a woman scorned is exceeded only by the power of a vengeful inspector.

 

[TimberMan]

I'd have fixed out of pure embarrassment and moved on the same day it was found.

Why fix something that may not be broken? It would be a huge pain to have to remove and reinstall all the wires.

I am awaiting the resolution from the inspections dept.

 

[WisJim]

My understanding of the code, as quoted in post #17, is that metal plates or bushings are acceptable if the hole cannot be placed properly, with enough clearance, not as a fix for a mistake. Sometimes a hole for wires can't be place in the center of the stud because of a header or other structural reason, and in that situation the metal protection is appropriate. Maybe this is the detail that inspector is concerned with?

2017 NEC 300.4 (A)

(1) Bored Holes. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed through bored holes in joists, rafters, or wood members, holes shall be bored so that the edge of the hole is not less than 32 mm (1-1 ∕4 in.) from the nearest edge of the wood member. Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or race‐ way shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm (1 ∕16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring.

 

[njk4o5]

Things like this, plus increased property taxes, are why I avoid pulling permits whenever possible.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Things like this, plus increased property taxes, are why I avoid pulling permits whenever possible.

What should the inspector’s let go and what should they enforce?

 

[mm08822]

Things like this, plus increased property taxes, are why I avoid pulling permits whenever possible.

Actually a real code requirement exists that has been called out. Technically this failed for 2 reasons......missing one nail plate - NEC code and hole/notch distance w/o any additional support added per IBC .

I'd rather have that than made up codes. The OP already has the info. Just go fix it.

BTW - With record keeping getting much better today, you will only make future problems when you or you heirs go to sell the place without having the proper permits/inspections. I've watched it happen several times in the last few years. People burn money like crazy to have someone "fix it" to make the closing date.

 

[Just_Steve]

Actually a real code requirement exists that has been called out. Technically this failed for 2 reasons......missing one nail plate - NEC code and hole/notch distance w/o any additional support added per IBC .

I'd rather have that than made up codes. The OP already has the info. Just go fix it.

BTW - With record keeping getting much better today, you will only make future problems when you or you heirs go to sell the place without having the proper permits/inspections. I've watched it happen several times in the last few years. People burn money like crazy to have someone "fix it" to make the closing date.

AS IS

 

[PCustoms]

AS IS

Works for now...

Try that when home sales are slow and the market is flooded

 

[larry4406]

Mr Inspector, see my big drill and long house auger bit? I couldn’t fit it into the stud bay to drill a perfect 90 degree hole thru the middle of the stud. So you see, I could not prevent it.

Accordingly,
Where this distance cannot be maintained, the cable or race‐ way shall be protected from penetration by screws or nails by a steel plate(s) or bushing(s), at least 1.6 mm (1 ∕16 in.) thick, and of appropriate length and width installed to cover the area of the wiring.



Never in all my years of construction have I dealt with what the OP is going thru. Overbored with plumbing pipe; yes and Simpson stud shoe to the rescue.

 

[Just_Steve]

Works for now...

Try that when home sales are slow and the market is flooded

I'll most likely be dead, IDGAF. My decedents enjoyed 30 years under this roof at no cost so if they have to deal with some issues to sell it, so be it. They are aware of everything done.

 

[Al G]

Is the problem just with the 2 studs in the photo or is it the entire wall? How many studs? How long is the wire run you'd have to pull out?

 

[Hank11]

Is this thing fixed yet?

Daylights burnin'.

Chop chop!

 

[whateg01]

Is this thing fixed yet?

Daylights burnin'.

Chop chop!

Weeks of whining to avoid a 5 minute fix

 

[LWB]

Why not just fix it? Do you really want to piss of the inspector over this? I hope you don't have to work with him/her anymore...

 

[mm08822]

AS IS

You can attempt to sell it as is, but when the buyer has a CoA held up and needed for closing, it's not the next guy's problem alone.

If buying with cash, then the seller may be in luck.

 

[mm08822]

I only used 2x6 for insulation purposes.

Do your drawings show only 2x4s for the structure? If yes, then you could present that as the excess stud depth and is not load bearing. I'm sure they would want a letter stating such for the record.

 

[logical]

Maybe drill a hole in the center, use a rasp to connect old hole to new hole, shift wire over to new hole, fill old hole with fireblock or wood putty

 

[andyvh1959]

When I built my shop in 2020 I used 2x6 studs and routed the wires through the stud (1.5" from the front edge). The local inspector said I needed the metal guards over the wire routing. Not to argue, I added the metal plates. Inspection went fine.

 

[TimberMan]

Lots of good advice here but also lots of folks missing the point. The original question was only regarding the scope of the NEC vs. Building Code. My barn is not subject to Building Codes, or any such inspections. I was looking for clarity on the "holes within 5/8" language to see which code it was from and then my plan was to go from there.

The hole in question, upon precise measuring is 5/8" from the edge which is not "within 5/8" so it is compliant regardless of which code is used. Additionally, the missing nail plate on the second stud was not a fail since the hole is more than 1.25" away from the stud face; the parallax error of the photo makes it look worse than it is.

The point, is that i am not going to allow an inspector (or anyone one else) to step beyond the scope of their role and impose anything extra on me.

 

[eejack]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you are technically correct, you meet electrical code in this instance and building code for whatever reason does not apply to you.

I suspect upon 'winning' that point you will get the single most picky final inspection ever.

 

[TimberMan]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you are technically correct, you meet electrical code in this instance and building code for whatever reason does not apply to you.

I suspect upon 'winning' that point you will get the single most picky final inspection ever.

I don't expect anything less!

 

[PCustoms]

I don't expect anything less!

Let us know how this works out...

When does the inspector come back to sign off?

 

[TimberMan]

Let us know how this works out...

When does the inspector come back to sign off?

Pass!

Thanks for all the info on this thread, it was what I needed!

 

[PCustoms]

Pass!

Thanks for all the info on this thread, it was what I needed!

What changes did you make since last inspection?

Same inspector?

 

[TimberMan]

No changes. I just explained that “within 5/8” is not the same as exactly 5/8” and I reminded them that my building is AG exempt so any structural questions are out of scope for electrical inspection.

I had to speak to the managers who agreed with me and assumed that the inspector likely missed the AG exempt detail on the permit and inspected it like a residential structure.

All is good.

 

[egdede]

.... BTW - With record keeping getting much better today, you will only make future problems when you or you heirs go to sell the place without having the proper permits/inspections. I've watched it happen several times in the last few years. People burn money like crazy to have someone "fix it" to make the closing date.

And it is now near impossible to sell a home to a financed buyer withoiut swearing a declaration as to repairs/improvement/work done.

I know the prior owner of my hoiuse lied his F'n *** off in short sale back in the dark- ages. I felt bad for him because I know he ate 200k 2010 dollars so I never looked into what my recourse was as a lied to buyer. That really was 200k instant equity for me (minus 100k in repairs).