Dream Lathe: 1943 Sidney

[ClappedOutBport]

Nice new lathe, I think you'll end up fixing the broken gear and looking for about a 5hp motor to make it "right" in time.
Better not buy a 4th lathe though, even if its very cheap.

I don't think the 7hp motor is "wrong". I'm 95% sure it's factory. It's got a Lagun tag on it and all the electronics are properly is sized for it. Apparently the "toolroom" models (not a real toolroom lathe IMO) came with a 7hp motor.

I think we may fix the gear eventually but not for some time no. It's built onto the shaft and would require an entirely new shaft. And it's probably heat treated as well.

No new lathes? What about this old beast? Just a tad rusty...

Or this early 1900s South Bend? This one has actually been promised to my dad, but I don't think he really needs it anymore. Probably better to be someone else's project.

 

[dutchgray]

Those two would be best left to someone else, not worth the effort considering what you already have.
Even in the UK lathes in that condition and age can be picked up for scrap money as thats really all they are worth.
The chuck on that big one might be useable as a welding fixture.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Those two would be best left to someone else, not worth the effort considering what you already have.
Even in the UK lathes in that condition and age can be picked up for scrap money as thats really all they are worth.
The chuck on that big one might be useable as a welding fixture.

The first one was totally facetious. It's junk. It's shows all 4 horsemen of the scrapocalypse. It's damaged in some areas, it's missing pieces, it's extremely rusty, and it's worn out. The chuck was rusted solid. The screws have become one with their surrounding. And it would never thread off the spindle. You wouldn't get it apart without a cutting torch. The ways are worn enough that they have grown ridges. It's a gonner. It's a big boy though. The chuck is probably 20" at least. I'd reckon at least 7k lbs. It should have been hauled the 2 miles down the road to the scrap yard back when scrap was at $10.75/100lbs about 4 or 5 years ago.

The South Bend is not in bad shape. We've already looked at the tailstock and it's pretty straight. I'd like to have a machine at my own place so I don't always have to travel to use one, but I don't really have the tooling to support it or the tools to fix it right now, so we'll see. I don't want to be like the machinery hoarders that I hate, and we're headed that way fast.

 

[86turbodsl]

NYLON change gears???? FOR REAL????

I about spit when i read that...

My offer stands on bringing a chuck down, when we finally get to where we can move. Michigan is locked down HARD. Worst in the country i've heard. Cops are out and about. They even told us not to go for motorcycle rides, ALONE. I've got heartburn on that one.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Seemed kinda cheezy for the class of lathe to me too. But hey, they broke gear is steel and the plastic one is intact. It probably runs a lot quieter and wears better when under-lubricated as well. But I'm still not impressed. There are a few things that are really nice. It's got those classic super hard ways that clean up very well even when rusty, and it's covered up in flat surfaces, which I love. Full length crossslides should have been adopted long ago too.

We may seriously take you up on that offer. Euclid Ohio is pretty far out of you way though if you're headed towards Texas. It's not worth it for you to spend hours to save us a bit of shipping. I've got a friend in Cincinnati Kentucky though if you do end up hauling one for us, I'm sure that would be closer.

 

[dutchgray]

The South Bend is not in bad shape. We've already looked at the tailstock and it's pretty straight. I'd like to have a machine at my own place so I don't always have to travel to use one, but I don't really have the tooling to support it or the tools to fix it right now, so we'll see. I don't want to be like the machinery hoarders that I hate, and we're headed that way fast.

You could always keep the Rockwell and take that home, even though its worth a bit more. Better the devil you know and all that.

 

[DocsMachine]

NYLON change gears???? FOR REAL????

It probably runs a lot quieter and wears better when under-lubricated as well.

-Not uncommon. My '56 Sheldon came with a phenolic gear, which had two purposes: One, it quieted down the overall drivetrain, and two it acts as a "fuse"- that is, it breaks before more expensive gears do.

My old 60s Arboga drill press, with a four-speed gear head, has two or three phenolic gears in the train, for the same reasons.

Doc.

 

[Pressingonward]

I'm just going to drop this here...

https://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/Manufacturing-Equipment-Sidney-SR-801-Engine-Lathe-Washington/3467634?h=5000%2Cc%7C2726%2Cq%7CLathe&rr=0.33333&hitprm=&pnLink=yes

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I'm just going to drop this here...

https://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/Manufacturing-Equipment-Sidney-SR-801-Engine-Lathe-Washington/3467634?h=5000%2Cc%7C2726%2Cq%7CLathe&rr=0.33333&hitprm=&pnLink=yes

Neat, thanks for linking. Someone go and steal the badge off it for me.

It's a better deal than ours certainly, but it's got plenty of problems on it's own. If would be be a lot of work that one, but not as bad as ours. That chip pan is super thick and hard to straighten for one. At least the ways are square on top whereas our are somewhat rounded off.

For anyone curious:
That's the toolroom model, as evidenced by the fancy handles. I do like the super large dials they have on it like a Monarch. Ours are "decent". Probably from the mid to late 50s as well.
It's the herringbone model, evidenced by the handle arrangement and being 16 speeds. And it being right on the plaque.
It's the high speed version, clocking in at an underwhelming 1000 RPM. Probably has the 10HP motor as well
The auctioneers ain't too familiar with it, as they listed it by the DRO scale lol.

Edit: Ugh, I looked at some of the other listings on Gov planet. That was painful.

 

[Roberts210]

I think a few generations of groundhogs have lived under that one.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

You could always keep the Rockwell and take that home, even though its worth a bit more. Better the devil you know and all that.

I'd love too. I'm just not sure the funds are there though for dad to let it go like that, even if he technically still owns it. I just did a paying job on it yesterday that was perfectly sized for the machine, largest diameter was 1/2". So I doubt we'll be too hasty to get rid of it yet. Just have to see.

-Not uncommon. My '56 Sheldon came with a phenolic gear, which had two purposes: One, it quieted down the overall drivetrain, and two it acts as a "fuse"- that is, it breaks before more expensive gears do.

Exactly. Besides, it's not the nylon one that's broken.

---------------

Not much progress on the Sidney. Dad's been working on the Lagun of course, new toys first. It's close though. The carriage is all back together, oils changed, etc. There was a dead contractor in the motor starter so the P/O had messed with the wiring a bit to use the reverse contactor. Dad got one on order and I'm sure he'll have it back to right. The motor bearings sound absolutely awful so we're gonna replace them. After those two things are done all it will need is way wipers and it'll be pretty much a new lathe other than the one gear.

Also included with the lathe was a 7.5HP RPC, which we desperately needed to replace the underpowered VFD. It had blown up start caps and crusty wiring and bad bearings and the whole mess, but dad went through it and got it working. He's still working on balancing the caps. It's about right on the rockwell lathe with nearly equal current on all legs, but the larger motors it's not totally balanced. It starts the Lagun ok at the 3.5HP speed, but it has a fit on the 7HP setting. I'm thinking with the 5HP running on the Sidney (which will start fine I'm sure since it's a clutch machine) the Lagun will start ok in high speed. I'll hopefully be building up a motor box for Sidney very similar to the Lagun's.

 

[86turbodsl]

This thing is looking really good. You've come a long ways very quickly.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Kinda. We got the bearings in the motor. It's a TEFC, super heavy, super well built. We also got the new contactor in, but without a schematic or wanting to trace every wire, we didn't check to make sure all 200 were exactly right. When I engaged it in forward it worked fine, but when I stopped it, I must have accidentally just hit reverse due to the sloppy carriage handle, and that somehow seemingly engaged both the forward and reverse contactor at the same time. Tripped the breaker, blew two 30 amp fuses in the lathe cabinet, and blew the NC switch of the brand new contactor.

Since dad doesn't really want to spend $70+shipping for a manual of unknown quality, one of us may end up drawing up a digital schematic to see how it should be. We're both learning a lot about industrial motor control, so it's a good learning experience.

I still need to do something about the electronics for the Sidney. I was originally gonna half *** it like most things, but since I'm learning a lot about these electronics, might as well do it right. We've got 99% of the stuff I need, the transformer, contactors, relays, fuse blocks, etc. I've got a lead on a free motor starter too that has the proper contactors pre-wired. Might even go wild and toss in an hour meter and ammeter. But that's all gonna take a while and I'm doing a 3 week intensive summer course that started today, so this thread is gonna sit for a bit lol.

 

[dutchgray]

I assume you have had a poke around the internet for a PDF of the manual, its surprising what you can get for free.

Got my lathe powered up now as well, still got to work out the coolant pump, previous owner didn't use it and its controls don't make it go. Different league to yours though, being an 11" by 22".

 

[Will McRay]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Beautiful and glad you have rescued a great lathe from the scrap yard.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

I assume you have had a poke around the internet for a PDF of the manual, its surprising what you can get for free.

Got my lathe powered up now as well, still got to work out the coolant pump, previous owner didn't use it and its controls don't make it go. Different league to yours though, being an 11" by 22".

Well, not as much as I though have. I found a fellow with one on PM who was wanting to give it away, but apparently to only the owner of the lathe with the exact serial number, i.e. reuniting it. I sent him a message but he has yet to get back with me.


I won't diss on an 11x22" at all. Even through today, all the work I've done at home in the past 5 years has been done on a light duty 10x36. And 99.8% of that would have fit on a 22" CC machine as well. What brand is that lathe? Any lathe is a good lathe when you don't have one. The only lathe I can think of seeing is a Standard Modern.

Beautiful and glad you have rescued a great lathe from the scrap yard.

Thanks.


-----------


Dad figured out the contactor issue. We didn't blow up the NC, nor was it our fault. The contactor was used apparently, was sticking somewhat, and had been disassembled and reassembled with the sticker upside down, so the leads had been wired to the NO side. Dad contacted the ebay seller and told him what's up and the guy gave him a full refund. He then took the coil out of the "new" one and got put it in the old one and got it working. So that's good to go. There's only a small amount of wiring to fix with the E-stop and on switch, then it's down on the ground and leveling time.

 

[dutchgray]

The lathe is a H. Ernault Batignolles (later know as H Ernault Somua) AC280
Made in France, mine is from 1963, with its cast iron stand it weighs 900kg and has a 4hp motor.
I took a 175 thou buy 5 thou per rev cut in aluminium on it today, so it gets the job done.
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[ClappedOutBport]

Damn what a beast! I was expecting a puny little thing, not that! I wouldn't be afraid have that in my shop at all!

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Well I'm done with my summer class so I'm working on this junker again.

Remember the broken cross-slide tailpiece? I finally got it finished sans paint. I have made so many mistakes on this one piece alone it would be hard to count. So let me catch you back up.

One mistake is that I should have machined reference surfaces onto the top part BEFORE I brazed it. Since I didn't when I milled the back flat, the hole and two thrust bearing flats were now out of plane. Probably only a few thousands, but it didn't sit well with me.

To fix it: I started out with it clamped on a Tom Lipton style mini-pallet and machined the reference surfaces onto it that I should have had in the first place.

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In doing so I proceeded to destroy a HSS endmill, as the area between the braze and cast is hard as hell. (Yes, my feeds and speeds were conservative. That wasn't the issue. It's hard. File won't touch it.) It was so unflat (16.5 thou endmill deflection with a 3/4" endmill) due to the hard spots I made a new flat above it.

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Then with the new references surfaces I could now bore the hole straight and face off both of the thrust bearing surfaces.

Then I made a new bushing on the lathe (I borrowed a piece of "bronze", but it was actually brass. Whatever, the screw is wore 10 thou anyway, I'm sure I'll revisit it eventually.)

Then my next screwup needed a fix. I cut off the wings before I took any dimensions so I had no idea where to put the holes for the mounting bolts. This turned out to be a win though, as I decided to turn up some transfer studs out of cap-scews that worked excellently. I Installed the leadscrew, hung the bracket off it, then just tapped it against the studs and then drilled them out and spot faced the top.

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Done!

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I have days and at least $40 of tooling into this one part. The moral of the story is to not tig braze and don't always try to save the old part. I bet it's not even very strong.

 

[DocsMachine]

Yeah, but think of all the learning experience!

[ducks thrown beer bottles]



Doc.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Yeah, but think of all the learning experience!

[ducks thrown beer bottles]



Doc.

Learning experience! Much like exposure it doesn't buy groceries.

---------

I should probably give an update on the Lagun as well. It has it's own host of problems we've found, but it is somewhat useable now and has done a small amount of work.

The contactor is still a bit sticky and so dad put it on the reverse side. It's a bit dangerous having a sticking contactor as no lathe controls, not the brake, not the e-stop, etc, will break the circuit. It's been pretty well behaved though so far.

The motor bearings and belts were replaced and it's super quiet now. You can barely hear it over the phase converter especially in low motor speed. I don't know what changed about gear technology, but it's amazing to me how modern spur gear lathes are quieter than old helical/herringbone lathes.

The spindle bearings in it are also very good and the surface finish it leaves is much nicer than that offered by the rockwell. I was facing off some 3 inch blanks at 750RPM and got a that shiny rainbow surface finish. The same cut could be done at a maximum of around 150 RPM in the Rockwell and looked like ****. Even a small DOC at the 750RPM did not finish nearly as smooth.

Problems we have found.

Compound gib was badly bent (how?). This makes the compound uncomfortably tight and has caused some uneven wear. I don't have the skills to make a new one, and I don't think we can straighten it to an acceptable level, so we'll have to inquire with Lagun about a new one.

The cross-slide gets a bit tighter than my liking at the end of travel. It doesn't appear to be related to gib tightness, so I'm wondering if the screw is full of swarf or just lousy manufacturing tolerances.

Something is broken or stripped in the QCGB. One of the levers selects between three ranges, A, B, and C. A and B are used exclusively for imperial threading. C does one imperial thread but it is used for every feed and all metric pitches. And it doesn't work. A and B will feed, but they run too slow in low range. At LR8X I was getting about 0.012 feed (0.006 faceing), vs the 0.033 I should have been getting, and switching to high was showing a huge jump. Theoretically it might be possible to find some combination in high range, but that might put stresses where they weren't intended. There is a possible 720 feeds (1440 with the change gear) so they obviously only charted a small sample, perhaps the stronger combinations. Either way, that C gear really needs to exist, so we will be looking into it shortly to see what the problem is.

The whole gearbox design kinda ***** anyway. This lathe has really made me appreciate American pattern lathes like the Rockwell a whole lot more. Its wonderful dual-tumbler design is so logical you really don't even need to look at the chart to select a feed. The left lever doubles it each slot, and the right lever is a linear progression between the two. The Lagun requires studying the chart for each selection you might want. I also like having a real feed clutch and I'm just much much faster and more comfortable in general with the rockwell. So it's not going anywhere any time soon.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

A major milestone has been passed in that the wiring is now complete.

• Motor is fused
• Controls are fused
• Has a transformer so no current on ground
• Has heaters
• Starter runs through heater so the motor won't restart when the heaters are reset
• Has an e-stop that cuts all control power, not just parallel with the stop button
• Has both mechanical and electronic interlocks on the starter.

A huge thanks to WillWilly on PM for the reversing starter. It came off his Monarch 16 CY, so it's period correct and sized perfectly. Thank God I found a schematic online as I'm not smart enough to understand the lockout logic. Also thanks to a friend of dad's for giving us some parts and to dad for collecting electrical parts all his life, the cost on this entire setup was under $10. I'm super pleased because this is "professional" enough that I'm not too embarrassed to show it. A huge upgrade over what it came with.

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[Roberts210]

Wow. Slick and neat.

 

[EngineerNate]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Very nice. What gauge wire is all that? Trying to get a better sense of scale on all of those components.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Wow. Slick and neat.

Thank you!

Very nice. What gauge wire is all that? Trying to get a better sense of scale on all of those components.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Thanks. Controls are 16 gauge. Motor is 12, input is 14. 14 is a bit small, basically right at the rating of the motor. That was sized when all we had was 1hp motors, not 5 (or 7). Hopefully we'll get that fixed pretty soon.

-------------

This forum is behind so I guess I'll ought to catch y'all up.

I got the compound finished up. I had to cut some precise shim washers as we robbed the bearings for to replace the ones we lost in the apron, but otherwise there were no issues in the compound. It's pretty smooth. 0.004 backlash when forward and sub 0.0005 slop, and 0.012 backlash all the way out and 0.007 slop (at the tail). Honestly I can live with that just fine and it's pretty tight in the normal use location. Micrometer dials are very nice on this machine. Just untwist the threaded knob and spin just like on a bridgeport.

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The thing that will screw me:

• Rockwell is direct read (diameter) on both dials (why would a compound ever be direct read I have no idea, who uses it parallel to the cross-slide?)
• Lagun is direct read cross and radius compound (as it should be)
• Sidney is radius for both

Will I blow a part by a good .1"? Almost certainly.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Dad and I did a slab-dash job of moving the phase converter outside and built a little roof for it, and the noise level is tremendously more tolerable. I've been pretty busy the last little bit:

I made some home-made levelers to level the two new lathes to save $250 over buying them from McMaster. (Just days before a friend of dad's told him that he had tons of those, *sigh*.) I copied the design from holdfortheengineering on instagram. They consist of a piece of 5/8" all thread with a 118 degree point on the end and just just sit in a drill point dimple on the pad. I used the lagun for some of the machining.

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Dad likes his lathes up pretty high so it's up on blocks. Unfortunately the through holes are inboard as well. It looks very tippy being up so high, but I would have to body-slam it just to get it to shake in the slightest. No forklifts in this shop, and not an earthquake prone area so I'm really worried about it. If the scenario was different I would do it differently.

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Dad took the feedbox apart the other day and couldn't find anything wrong, so he put it back together and the feed works in all positions now. Nice! So here's how it looking right now (the feed rods and stuff got polished up after this picture)

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It's very close to being right. The electrical is 100% working right, the gearbox is good, apron is good, TS is good, coolant works, etc. I called recently and asked for a quote on the gib, headstock shaft, and some way wipers. Lagun records aren't too great, they keep having to ask questions about which version it is because apparently their records don't reflect the small changes. It's an 82 model btw.

We've been using it a bit now too, having the fixed feed. I made a shim and a new stud so that we can run our AXA toolpost for the time being.

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Now that I understand the gearbox it's really not that bad. The one thing that I really, really, really like about it is that the metric thread settings can be set with the only the face-panel levers. No change gears required! I single pointed my first ever metric thread the other day. That is a really nice feature I've needed for a long time. It does have a change gear, but it's only needed for cutting worms, which I have yet to ever need to do.

I turned two boring bar blanks, a 1" and a 1.5", which I'll probably setup for 3/8" tooling.

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I was trying to align the tailstock while cutting them and I never could get it totally consistent. Pre-leveling, dad was complaining about a lot of taper is his work, which I attributed to the lack of leveling or just dad's machining skills. He's right that there was something more going on though. The headstock was way out of line! I made a light cut on a 3" piece that was plenty stiff enough for zero deflection and it tapered 6+ thousands over those 3 inches. So we got that aligned this week. It's not perfect, it runs 1/2 thou over 4 inches, then jumps up to 1 at 6". But it's a lot better!

Dad also discovered that the Lagun has a brake. We knew it had a foot-pedal but didn't see any cable or brake so we just assumed it was a foot switch. Turns out the input pulley is also a tiny drum brake. I made some adapters and we hooked it up with a bicycle brake cable. Works good. Another item off the list.

 

[Pressingonward]

Sounds like it's coming together nicely. Maybe you've mentioned it before, but I don't remember - what do you make on your herd of lathes? Is this a farm shop, a small machine shop, hobby, or ?

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I am a sucker for an old lathe. My brother got one given to him from some guy who had no idea what it was. SCORE!

Old lathes can be a lot of fun. Sometimes they can be stressful and depressing though as well. Try to stick to the former side. I'm a bit more enthusiastic having the electrical done.

Sounds like it's coming together nicely. Maybe you've mentioned it before, but I don't remember - what do you make on your herd of lathes? Is this a farm shop, a small machine shop, hobby, or ?

The last, for now. I'd like to get into repair work and 1-offs and small production for customers. So far I've only had a few small jobs for friends. Primarily we use our machines to fix machines that we then use to fix machines that we... you get the point. It takes a while, but all of our tools become reliable, fully functional, and non-destructive (as in, use of them does not cause unnecessary wear due to misadjustment, lack of oiling etc). I also tend to make a fair bit of custom tooling to work on things. I don't believe in hammer and chisel mechanics so when I don't have the right tool I make it. Sometimes it's a waste of hours. Sometimes it saves days.


The Rockwell 10x36 was our first lathe. It cost about 2 grand, but was in excellent shape, well cared for, and was very well tooled. It wasn't the steal of the century, but it's done a lot of work. Dad or I would use it basically daily. It does excellent and very accurate work, but you have to be a good machinist to get good results. If you dial in 50 thou then 20 and expect it to take 70 total, well you're wrong. Badly wrong, because it's a noodle. But if you know how to compensate for the noodlyness, you can work to within a few tenths reliably and consistently.



The 18.5x54 Sidney was our second. It cost $625 I think. Honestly way too much. A dollar over scrap was too much. Scrap was too much. But it's done. I'd have never been so insistent if I knew how bad it was. The Sidney is a good compliment to the Rockwell because they have very little overlap. The Rockwell is struggling above 1.5" and the Sidney would struggle under about 3/4". The 1HP motor on the Rockwell and being limited to about 80 thou DOC really slowed us down. So that was the lust for a bigger lathe.


The 14x40 Lagun came only because it was the steal of the century. Just the phase converter and tooling that came with it would have paid for it. Unfortunately, the overlap between it and the others is huge. It's accurate enough and fast enough and just light enough to do most of what the Rockwell does. It's got more power than the Sidney and is large enough and heavy enough to do most of what it does. It's modern, easy to use, and you don't have to be all that great of a machinist. You can take 100 thou then take 10 and you'll be pretty close to 110. It uses the same chucks and drills as the Sidney as well. It has a bigger spindle bore, it runs faster, etc, etc. So naturally, it sees most of the use, or at least it does now, but there are only 2/3rds operating.


Maybe someday one or two will be sold or I'll take them or something. But for now all the infrastructure, all the tooling, all the machinery to move parts is at dad's so that's where they will stay for now.

 

[larry_g]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Thank you!


The thing that will screw me:

• Rockwell is direct read (diameter) on both dials (why would a compound ever be direct read I have no idea, who uses it parallel to the cross-slide?)
• Lagun is direct read cross and radius compound (as it should be)
• Sidney is radius for both

Will I blow a part by a good .1"? Almost certainly.

Your doing good work here, keep it up.

As for the radius/diameter; I have two Sheldon lathes one 10" and one 13". One has direct on the cross slide and radius on the other. I had to make a couple signs and put on the wall behind the machines to keep things straight. I do understand your frustration.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Your doing good work here, keep it up.

As for the radius/diameter; I have two Sheldon lathes one 10" and one 13". One has direct on the cross slide and radius on the other. I had to make a couple signs and put on the wall behind the machines to keep things straight. I do understand your frustration.

lg
no neat sig line

Thanks Larry. I'm sure as I get used to them I'll start remembering pretty quick.

------------

I guess we're good to go on chucks now. After inspecting the old 12" 4 jaw closer it was determined to be entirely trash. It is so bellmouthed that a 0.005 shim can be stuck in to within the last 1/8" of grip on a part. Junk. I knew it was bad, but it was worse than I expected.

A friend of dad's loaned him a Polish 12.5" 4 jaw that dad actually sold to him well before we had any big lathes. It's used, but not bad. It's bellmouthed some. I can slip a 5 thou shim under the first tooth but no more.

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Today, a Chinese 12.5" 4 jaw popped up on FB marketplace and so we went and got it. Paid $150, but it's literally brand new. It's been used maybe once. I washed the cosmoline and grease out and got it mounted up. No bellmouthing on this one. It's pretty poorly machined though. One screw is bindy with no jaw in it and everything is sort of tight and stiff. It will wear in nicely though. It's kind of sweet having a brand new chuck, even if it is Chinese.

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Both of the newer chucks are not balanced perfectly. The Sidney doesn't care even at max speed (800 RPM) but the Lagun cares a lot at 750 RPM where the machine hits a resonant frequency and starts shaking pretty bad. That's a speed I'd like to run a lot so I'll probably balance both chucks. I started by adding a threaded hole for a lifting eye on the heavy side of the Chinese chuck.

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The Polish chuck will likely live on the Sidney full time as it's cam pins require an extra turn in (likely due to wear on the mechanism) so it's annoying adjusting it all the time.



Edit: Oh and if anyone is wondering if my back hurts? Yes, it does, as do my knees and fingers especially. I must have mounted these things 7 times today and moved them many more.

--------------
The Lagun has been earning it's keep by doing some customer work and making some progress modifying bits of the Sidney. I'll try to get and update on that as soon as it's done.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Coolant system is working. It's not 100% ideal as it's only a 110v pump, and running off a separate circuit. Works fine though. Has enough pressure to actually cause water to leak out of the knockoff loc-line (bought for something else. Don't buy cheap loc-line.) I needed an armored hose and spotted this dishwasher hose in the junk pile. Works just perfectly. All parts for the coolant system were already on hand, so no added expense there.


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And the apron got put back together. And a coat of paint. I'm waiting on some parts, but it should start moving quite rapidly again, at least until I get to the QCGB. Barring unforseen problems, we're probably 80% done with the machine.


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[86turbodsl]

I should have asked before, how are you painting your lathe? Brush? I am about to paint on mine, i need to figure it out.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Brush. Spray on the sheetmetal. No bondo or filler, It's a lathe and that's a deep rabbit hole. I didn't use any hardener cuz dad doesn't like it, but I'd imagine it's helpful. We primed the main casting, but everything else has just been straight paint. Check back on Doc's Springfield, he's a much better painter than I.

 

[DocsMachine]

Somebody call me?

Okay, generally speaking, I use an alkyd enamel I get from a local builders' supply place.

Back when I first started rebuilding these things, I originally used a primer-filler of the same brand, but being an enamel, it takes forever- literally several weeks- for the stuff to fully cure, to the point it won't ball up and clog the sandpaper.

For later machines, I skipped that step, and just give it a couple coats of a standard primer (of the same brand, or some spray self-etching primer.)

To actually lay down the paint, for large areas I use the little 4" foam detail rollers and the little disposable trays from Home Depot. For smaller or fiddly areas, I'll use 1" disposable brushes from the same place, and keep some tweezers handy to pick out the loose fibers when one inevitably winds up in the paint.

I've also been known to break out some fine artists' brushes to paint around tight details without having to do a bunch of tedious masking.

The enamel I use "self levels" well, and leaves a somewhat glossy finish, that's largely resistant to most of the oils and cutting fluids I use. It's NOT very resistant to emulsified-oil coolants, but then, not much is. I'm told even catalyzed epoxies eventually soften under heavy soaking.

Doc.

 

[EngineerNate]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Regarding paint choice, a lot of the folks over at OWWM swear by the Sherwin Williams DTM Alkyd Enamel. I've read that Benjamin Moore has a similar product.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Duker]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Thanks Larry. I'm sure as I get used to them I'll start remembering pretty quick.

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I guess we're good to go on chucks now. After inspecting the old 12" 4 jaw closer it was determined to be entirely trash. It is so bellmouthed that a 0.005 shim can be stuck in to within the last 1/8" of grip on a part. Junk. I knew it was bad, but it was worse than I expected.

A friend of dad's loaned him a Polish 12.5" 4 jaw that dad actually sold to him well before we had any big lathes. It's used, but not bad. It's bellmouthed some. I can slip a 5 thou shim under the first tooth but no more.

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Today, a Chinese 12.5" 4 jaw popped up on FB marketplace and so we went and got it. Paid $150, but it's literally brand new. It's been used maybe once. I washed the cosmoline and grease out and got it mounted up. No bellmouthing on this one. It's pretty poorly machined though. One screw is bindy with no jaw in it and everything is sort of tight and stiff. It will wear in nicely though. It's kind of sweet having a brand new chuck, even if it is Chinese.

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Both of the newer chucks are not balanced perfectly. The Sidney doesn't care even at max speed (800 RPM) but the Lagun cares a lot at 750 RPM where the machine hits a resonant frequency and starts shaking pretty bad. That's a speed I'd like to run a lot so I'll probably balance both chucks. I started by adding a threaded hole for a lifting eye on the heavy side of the Chinese chuck.

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The Polish chuck will likely live on the Sidney full time as it's cam pins require an extra turn in (likely due to wear on the mechanism) so it's annoying adjusting it all the time.



Edit: Oh and if anyone is wondering if my back hurts? Yes, it does, as do my knees and fingers especially. I must have mounted these things 7 times today and moved them many more.

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The Lagun has been earning it's keep by doing some customer work and making some progress modifying bits of the Sidney. I'll try to get and update on that as soon as it's done.

I needed to come and invade your thread now! The lathe is looking good.

I ended up with 2 12"-4 jaw chucks and probably should determine which one is the going to be the survivor. I have never balanced a chuck just some bandsaw flywheels. if it needs balancing do you dimple the same way... do you do with or without the jaws as these can change over time ?

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

I needed to come and invade your thread now! The lathe is looking good.

I ended up with 2 12"-4 jaw chucks and probably should determine which one is the going to be the survivor. I have never balanced a chuck just some bandsaw flywheels. if it needs balancing do you dimple the same way... do you do with or without the jaws as these can change over time ?

Thanks! Looks can be deceiving though. Working on it today, I realized that I can either see curves, or the cross-slide ways are that worn lol. When the carriage isn't in its happy place up by the chuck, you can stick a feeler gauge under the wings on both sides.


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I did mine with jaws because of how I balanced it. Unfortunately, it didn't come out quite as good as I hoped, but it's still a lot better. I only did the Chinese one, the Polish chuck is still on the todo list. I did the Chinese one via drilling, but I plan on using stick on wheel weights for the Polish one. Just to try something different and since it's a borrowed chuck.


See here: https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/1884509-lathe-chuck-balancing (Pics won't show if you're not a member )


And here:

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Clearance: milled

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Sightglass: installed

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Busted oil lines/fittings: replaced

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My back: ******* hurts.

The apron will be back on very, very soon.

Gotta love a bridgeport. Very good machine for all sorts of odd jobs. The clearance had to be added due to wear. It's causing a few other issues as well, but nothing I can't work around.

I had to buy 6 parts for the oiling system so far. Copper line, one metering valve, one sightglass, and three types of felt. And that's been the most expensive part of the machine so far. I get it though, those metering valves are complex.

 

[Duker]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

I did mine with jaws because of how I balanced it. Unfortunately, it didn't come out quite as good as I hoped, but it's still a lot better. I only did the Chinese one, the Polish chuck is still on the todo list. I did the Chinese one via drilling, but I plan on using stick on wheel weights for the Polish one. Just to try something different and since it's a borrowed chuck.


See here: https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/1884509-lathe-chuck-balancing (Pics won't show if you're not a member )


And here:

Thanks the video was great, laid out the process very well. I just picked up three different size face plates at an auction (I was the only bidder as I guess not much demand for L1 mounts) so I will add those to the project list as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Thanks the video was great, laid out the process very well. I just picked up three different size face plates at an auction (I was the only bidder as I guess not much demand for L1 mounts) so I will add those to the project list as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks!

Yeah, L1 seems to be an older lathe thing, so with every scrapped lathe there is less demand.

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Man, I thought was done in the apron. Even had some oil in it to test the pump (works great). Well I wasn't. I was trying to figure out how the back wall got oil, so I watched another Sidney owner's disassembly video and found out there was a large oil pipe missing. So it all had to come back apart. I'm pretty fast at it now, but unfortunately there is a worn out tapered roller bearing that always falls apart when you screw with it.

Our tiny workbench/welding table is a disaster.

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Another problem with the apron is that the clutch handles don't stay engaged. It seems like they relied on having a sharp corner that they cammed over, and then spring tension held them in place. With that sharp corner worn away, they just fall off. As much as I hate it, I think the correct solution is to braze that corner back on and file flat. I could probably run them upside down as a lazy man's solution. I'm not sure what to do.

In the good new, all the carriage way wipers are installed. We had to make one new housing. Cutting felts for this machine is extremely trivial, there is no excuse to let them get back and destroy the ways.

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Some days are two steps forward, four steps back.