Drill press or mill?

[The One]

Like a true Garage Jounaler I need a DP for a car project I'm working on. I need to cut a perfectly straight 3/4" hole through 3/4" plate steel and can probably get by with a bench top drill press. HOWEVER my inner garage journaler says that I should buy a floor DP instead so I don't have to upgrade for a future project. Should I just double my budget and go for a mill while I'm at it?

To be perfectly clear I don't see needing a mill for any projects right now. But I'd also rather avoid having both if I can get by with just one better tool.

 

[Will S.]

I don't have one, but I sure wished I did on mnay occasions. If you have room (and the budget), get the mill. I think that's a purchase you won't regret.

 

[marinusdees]

You can drill holes with a mill. It is extremely difficult to mill in a drill press. Jacobs style chucks are not designed for sideways pressure. They loosen. Ask me how I know. I have both. I use (one of three) a drillpress much more often but I use the mill to mill.
Hope this helps.

 

[The One]

I don't have one, but I sure wished I did on mnay occasions. If you have room (and the budget), get the mill. I think that's a purchase you won't regret.

I live in an area where tools tend to be used until they don't work so it's possible that I might need to buy new or travel to pick one up. What would you expect to pay for a good one?

I will be adding onto my garage this next summer to really make it into a shop so it'll be the perfect time to add more space for big tools.

 

[The One]

You can drill holes with a mill. It is extremely difficult to mill in a drill press. Jacobs style chucks are not designed for sideways pressure. They loosen. Ask me how I know. I have both. I use (one of three) a drillpress much more often but I use the mill to mill.
Hope this helps.

Why don't you use the mill to drill?

 

[Millwrong]

Knee mills are great drilling machines....


But seriously, your typical bench-top drill press probably wasn't designed for drilling 3/4" holes. 1 hole? Sure, get an s&d bit and go for it, but generally this is big floor-model territory.

 

[The One]

Knee mills are great drilling machines....


But seriously, your typical bench-top drill press probably wasn't designed for drilling 3/4" holes. 1 hole? Sure, get an s&d bit and go for it, but generally this is big floor-model territory.

Good to know about the bench top models. I have at least 2 holes on this project and a lot more on 3/8" and 1/4".

Does a drill press double as a decent tubing notcher or should I plan on getting one of those too?

 

[Millwrong]

Good to know about the bench top models. I have at least 2 holes on this project and a lot more on 3/8" and 1/4".

Does a drill press double as a decent tubing notcher or should I plan on getting one of those too?

You need something very rigid to notch tube, so a small drill press is definitely out of the question and quite frankly, I'm not so sure any size of "consumer" grade machine could handle the job. I'd rather have a big radial-arm machine, a mill, or of course a notching machine for that job!

 

[larry_g]

One big advantage of the mill over the drill press is locating holes in a precise position. If your concerned with having holes a precise location from an edge or from each other then the X_Y table on the mill shines. Yes you can locate holes and punch them on centers. Yes you can get an X_Y table for a drill press. However by the time you've set it all up and paid the money your money and time ahead with a cheap mill, IMHO. Keep your eye out for a $5-700 mill drill.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Packard V8]

Just keep in mind there is no strength difference between a bench and floor DP of the same size and manufacturer.

Buy a good DP and wait until a steal deal on a mill comes along. If one has the space, keep both. A DP does quick holes good.

And yes, to make a 3/4" hole in steel, a DP needs a slow speed attachment. Trying to do it with woodworking speeds is not good science.

And yes, a six-pack and nicely asking will usually get one a couple of holes drilled in any town in the world.

jack vines

 

[The One]

Thanks Packard. I was highly considering taking my materials in to the local fab shop for the holes but I'm realizing more and more that some of this is going to require one hole, fitting, then another hole based on that fit. Basically requiring multiple trips for just a couple of holes. Not that that's a big issue but the ease of having one right in my garage will be noticed. Plus after a few more projects I think it could pay for itself vs buying beer for the guys in town (or slipping them a 20).

I was looking at this drill press: https://www.zoro.com/jet-floor-drill-press-20-1-12-hp-115230v-354170/i/G4920395/ Is it what I need?

 

[larry_g]

Thanks Packard. I was highly considering taking my materials in to the local fab shop for the holes but I'm realizing more and more that some of this is going to require one hole, fitting, then another hole based on that fit. Basically requiring multiple trips for just a couple of holes. Not that that's a big issue but the ease of having one right in my garage will be noticed. Plus after a few more projects I think it could pay for itself vs buying beer for the guys in town (or slipping them a 20).

I was looking at this drill press: https://www.zoro.com/jet-floor-drill-press-20-1-12-hp-115230v-354170/i/G4920395/ Is it what I need?

When it comes to fitting..If you have a hole a few thou out of position a drill press is not going to move (slot) this hole. This is an ideal job for the mill. If you get your bracket made and find that something is hitting the outside wrong then you just mill a bit off of it. Or you can grind it off, or torch it off. All methods are acceptable. A couple of quick holes for a bracket on a farm implement the drill press with an eye ball alignment works. A bracket for the hotrod, location with a mill and finished all over. It's a matter what you desire in the end product.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[The One]

When it comes to fitting..If you have a hole a few thou out of position a drill press is not going to move (slot) this hole. This is an ideal job for the mill. If you get your bracket made and find that something is hitting the outside wrong then you just mill a bit off of it. Or you can grind it off, or torch it off. All methods are acceptable. A couple of quick holes for a bracket on a farm implement the drill press with an eye ball alignment works. A bracket for the hotrod, location with a mill and finished all over. It's a matter what you desire in the end product.

lg
no neat sig line

I don't need precision placement. The placement for my current project more has to do with drilling, fitting bracket in place for steering, test clearances, decide where to to place the next hole, drill, and repeat. As long as I can center punch and more or less hit that spot I'll be fine. For some things like rod ends I can't oblong a hole.

 

[The One]

If you're OK with a bigger budget.
Get a mag drill.
If you don't need a mill, you just don't need a mill.

Mag drills look interesting. I noticed that there's some that are air powered? I do have a 7.5hp compressor if a drill press can be powered by that.

How well would it work drilling a hole in something strange like the side of an oil pan? I suppose you could set up a bench table of sorts and use it like a normal drill press?

 

[ducksface]

Mag drills look interesting. I noticed that there's some that are air powered? I do have a 7.5hp compressor if a drill press can be powered by that.

How well would it work drilling a hole in something strange like the side of an oil pan? I suppose you could set up a bench table of sorts and use it like a normal drill press?

I don't have one but the last mag drill I used had a swivel head on it that gave it unlimited column(because there is no column, you use the table height and floor) height, just like the dreaded round column mill can do. Mag it or clamp to a table, it'll drill an engine block. It doesn't care because the table is your throat and the floor is your platen.

 

[7635tools]

I would go with a mill over a drill press ant day. I have two floor drill presses and a Bridgeport. If you’re looking for accurate holes the mill is the way to go. Just keep in mind that with the mill the machine itself is usually the cheapest part. It’s the rest of the tooling that can get very expensive.


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[The One]

I don't have one but the last one I used had a swivel head on it that gave it unlimited column(because there is no column, you use the table height and floor) height, just like the dreaded round column mill can do. Mag it or clamp to a table, it'll drill an engine block. It doesn't care because the table is your throat and the floor. Is your platen.

That's an insane idea! Which model did you use?

I noticed Milwaukee has a 18v model. Unfortunately I have Dewalt, but how does the battery version compare to the 110v version? And how would it compare to the floor mounted drill press I linked to earlier? It seems hard to believe that a portable drill press would have as much power as a massive drill press would have.

 

[marinusdees]

Why don't you use the mill to drill?

Sometimes I do.
Because it takes me, with my limited ability, longer to drill a simple hole. With the mill. But, that's just me.

 

[ducksface]

Sometimes I do.
Because it takes me, with my limited ability, longer to drill a simple hole. With the mill. But, that's just me.

It's not just you.
******* around with a mill to drill a hole is never fun. Neither is the cleanup for a small job.
Set up is key.
I bet you set up a press within 10,000ths of your mill if you need to.
I also bet you seldom need to.

 

[Aaron_W]

If you mostly want holes a drill press is much cheaper, faster and has far more drilling capacity for the price.


The Jet you linked to for example. $1200 gets you 1 1/2hp, a 3/4" chuck and almost 30" distance spindle to table. 12 speeds 150-4200rpm.

My little Sherline mill cost $900 and it could sit on the table of that Delta with room to spare (21" tall).

Grizzly has a mill drill for $1250, 3/4hp, spindle to table is only 8 3/4".

Precision Matthews has a really nice benchtop mill the PM25 for $1450, 1 hp, spindle to table is 13".

The Sherline has the highest max RPM at 2800 which is still 50% less than the Jet drill press.


A mill is nice if you have a use for a mill but for the price they don't compare well with a drill press. Of course you can go used, but people sell used drill presses too.

 

[The One]

I found this one on CL: https://greenbay.craigslist.org/tls/d/vertical-mill/6499269585.html

It seems expensive?

 

[The One]

If you mostly want holes a drill press is much cheaper, faster and has far more drilling capacity for the price.


The Jet you linked to for example. $1200 gets you 1 1/2hp, a 3/4" chuck and almost 30" distance spindle to table. 12 speeds 150-4200rpm.

My little Sherline mill cost $900 and it could sit on the table of that Delta with room to spare (21" tall).

Grizzly has a mill drill for $1250, 3/4hp, spindle to table is only 8 3/4".

Precision Matthews has a really nice benchtop mill the PM25 for $1450, 1 hp, spindle to table is 13".

The Sherline has the highest max RPM at 2800 which is still 50% less than the Jet drill press.


A mill is nice if you have a use for a mill but for the price they don't compare well with a drill press. Of course you can go used, but people sell used drill presses too.

Do you think that the Jet I linked to would be too much? I'd much rather have a smaller machine for the space savings if it'll do everything I need.

Based on that 3/4" plate is the largest that I can see ever doing and that'd be very rare, what machine would you suggest I look into?

 

[Lassen Forge]

I passed on a Bridgeport and got a drill press, and to this day, long later, I still kick myself.

Mill. If you can get either, get a mill. You can do with a mill what you can do with a drill press, you cannot do with a drill press (or at best do it really bad) what you can with a mill.

If you don't know... go to your local community college, take a metalworking class, and see what you can do with a mill you cannot with a drill press.

My 2¢...

 

[The One]

If you don't know... go to your local community college, take a metalworking class, and see what you can do with a mill you cannot with a drill press.

My 2¢...

I really wish I had this option available. The local college has community classes on playing bridge and introduction to Windows 10. :/

 

[The One]

Precision Matthews has a really nice benchtop mill the PM25 for $1450, 1 hp, spindle to table is 13".

I started looking at this a bit. It appears that it might be a good machine for me.

http://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-25mv/

 

[Aaron_W]

Do you think that the Jet I linked to would be too much? I'd much rather have a smaller machine for the space savings if it'll do everything I need.

Based on that 3/4" plate is the largest that I can see ever doing and that'd be very rare, what machine would you suggest I look into?

I'm on the smaller end of things, so I really can't recommend a large drill press. I've got a little Dremel drill press for small projects and a Craftsman 9" for larger stuff. I don't do anything that requires the kind of capability that a floor mount provides.

I was just trying to show you what a similar amount of money gets you in a mill so you could see the difference. I was assuming that drill press is what you need in a drill.

Going the other way that PM25 has 13" spindle to table, a 15" drill press has 2 more inches and costs $400-600, so about 1/3 the price.

I started looking at this a bit. It appears that it might be a good machine for me.

http://www.precisionmatthews.com/shop/pm-25mv/

I've heard really good things about PM in general, and that seems to be a well regarded smaller mill. If I out grow my Sherline that one is high on my list of machines to consider.

I'm not trying to talk you out a mill. I'm just pointing out that a mill is complex and expensive drill press, if you really just need a drill press you may be disappointed and are definately spending more than you need to.

You could buy a mill and be thrilled by a whole new world of options open to you.


If you do buy a mill be prepared to spend more money on tooling. The general rule of thumb is an additional 50-100% of the machines cost to to cover cutting tools and various accessories you may want.

 

[Aaron_W]

Also if you are not sure about what all is involved with a mill, youtube is full of great instructional videos on machining.

 

[tool_scrounge]

I found this one on CL: https://greenbay.craigslist.org/tls/d/vertical-mill/6499269585.html

It seems expensive?

Jet JTM830 = A1S = 8x36 mill (generic description based on the table size).

These were originally made in Taiwan starting in the early 1980's. The design reminds me of a Clausing 8520 vertical mill on steroids.

The Pro:

Simple, not much to break
Wide speed range
Large table
small footprint

The Con:

Workmanship in OK, but not great

Rotating head interface greatly limits stiffness, and thus how big an end mill you can use. I felt a bit iffy with 1/2" end mills on steel.

There are lots of these mills that look the same, but they all are a bit different when you look close, such as 0.1" vs. 0.125 (yech!) leadscrew pitch, plastic vs. metal dials, with or without oilers, etc. It always made me wonder if they were made in the same factory.

Pretty high priced at $3500.

If I was going to be doing a lot of mitering of tubing, I would want something stout! The Nichols tool room miller (horizontal mill) fits that category and the bike builders seem to use them. Small footprint with 1200 lb weight. Being a very stiff design the really can take off metal. Makes the more versatile and 2x heavier Bridgeport look like a wet noodle. Can be found for less than $500. Not as versitile as a vertical mill, but if you have the space they are great small mills for hogging material. They also made vertical heads for them.

Here is a link to someone who uses one for building bikes:

http://www.francescycles.com/about-1/

Here is a link to more info on the Nichols:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/nichols/

But I would always still have a drill press......

 

[foghorn1966]

OP, For what you want to do, rent a mag drill to try out on this job. You'll prob have to buy the 3/4" annular cutter you need. That will give you the tightest clearance hole shy of a mill. Plus you'll be done in a day. But as someone else said yesterday " But this is Garage Journal".

 

[ez-duzit]

Every shop needs a drill press. Get a good one. You'll use it a lot. Later you can add a real vertical milling machine, not some imported toy.

 

[helterskelter]

I bought a Bridgeport and don't regret it. It works just fine as a drill press. You can get one for not much more than a drill press if you're willing to be patient and travel.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I always wanted a milling machine when I was younger. Now that I am retired, I have 4 Bridgeports. Of course, I rebuild them for a hobby, so I am rather partial to them. There is also a Supermax in there at the moment awaiting a buyer. A man can make a lot of things with a mill and a lathe at his disposal.

 

[383 240z]

If you really want a real mill. I have a nice Cincinnati Toolmaster knee mill for sale. It is a real mill, not a bench top Comes with phase converter to run it on 220v PM me if you are interested

 

[6PTsocket]

You can drill holes with a mill. It is extremely difficult to mill in a drill press. Jacobs style chucks are not designed for sideways pressure. They loosen. Ask me how I know. I have both. I use (one of three) a drillpress much more often but I use the mill to mill.
Hope this helps.

The problems milling on a drill press are not usually the chuck but the taper that seats the chuck into the quill. The side load tends to cause them to fall out, sending the chuck and the bit flying. The other problem is the bearings. The type used in a drill press are not designed to take side loading. People have modified DP's to mill by using different bearings and modifying the chuck mount so it is bolted in, rather than a friction fit. There is a video modifying the HF bench top for milling. That project is not for someone drilling one 3/4" hole.

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[6PTsocket]

In typical GJ style the most expensive, complicated ways to drill a 3/4 inch hole have been suggested. What about a laser or a water jet? I just sunk an 11/16 hole in a big thick plate, preparatory to tapping a 3/4-16 thread. I used a S&D bit from the HF set. I went slow and used a lot if lube and it came out great. I did have my floor standing Taiwan press with a 1 hp Baldor on it but it went so easy, I am sure I could have gotten by with less. Mild steel is pretty easy to drill, keep the hole cleaned out, plenty of lube, go slow and it is a piece of cake.

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[ducksface]

I think, in fairness to the OP who appears bright and inquisitive, that a camel back press should be introduced into the equation.

Op:
Look up
Barnes camel back
and prepare to fall in blind love.
It'll do all you need and much much more.

 

[Aaron_W]

In typical GJ style the most expensive, complicated ways to drill a 3/4 inch hole have been suggested. What about a laser or a water jet? I just sunk an 11/16 hole in a big thick plate, preparatory to tapping a 3/4-16 thread. I used a S&D bit from the HF set. I went slow and used a lot if lube and it came out great. I did have my floor standing Taiwan press with a 1 hp Baldor on it but it went so easy, I am sure I could have gotten by with less. Mild steel is pretty easy to drill, keep the hole cleaned out, plenty of lube, go slow and it is a piece of cake.

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I really have to wonder how many of those recommending a mill, would use a mill to drill 20, 30, 50 holes.

I get that a mill can drill really nice precise holes, but a drill press does it faster and easier. Most people I know who have a mill also have a drill press, there is probably a reason for that.

 

[larry_g]

I really have to wonder how many of those recommending a mill, would use a mill to drill 20, 30, 50 holes.

I get that a mill can drill really nice precise holes, but a drill press does it faster and easier. Most people I know who have a mill also have a drill press, there is probably a reason for that.

Each project will dictate the best tool for the job. I have 2 mills and 4 drill presses. I use them all and the project will lend itself to the tool. If you must have precision location of the holes, such as redrilling a wheel hub or axle then the mill is the tool. If you just doing holes for shelf standards in wood then a drill press is fine. Holes ~6" apart, drill press. Holes 6.000" +/- .005" apart is a mill or jig bore machine.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[bulletpruf]

Interesting conversation. I'm in the same boat - have a drill press in the home garage, but need something for the shop. Won't be drilling a bunch of holes, so I'm thinking about a mill.

 

[cannuck]

Put me down in the "drill press first" camp. To get extremely clean 3/4" holes just buy a 2MT x 3/4 Weldon adapter - can be had with internal coolant connection - and use an annular cutter. I have 2 smaller mills, 2 gear drive and 2 belt drive presses and and 2 mag drills, but 95% of the work is done by my 1HP, 40 year old Taiwanese belt drive (power feed) drill press.