Dump Trailer Battery?

[RonRock]

I'm sure that this has been discussed here previously, but my search ability is lacking. So I'll ask for pointers in either suggestions or previous threads.

My single axle dump trailer needs a new battery. It has now just an old probably used car battery that went dead. So this time I plan to get something decent. Not break the bank decent but reasonably affordable decent. From a little research it seems that I want something that is capable of 100A output. So if correct that's a start. I'm guessing that either a Deep Cycle or AGM battery is budget friendly and OK for use. But I have been looking and it seems that I can buy a Lifepo lithium for about the same price that puts out 100A.

Cheap example.

Robot or human?

7K axle,
2,500lb load cap.
6x8 box

I have a solar charger on top of the chest that usually does a great job of keeping the battery going. But this one must be just done. Nothing lasts forever. I don't use the trailer often. Just my own use to maintain my gravel, and lawn. Dirt, Mulch, hauling tree branches. When used I may make 3 loads a day. Rarely more than that and it could be weeks between uses.
Any suggestions?

 

[RonRock]

Not sure what the "Robot or human" above is. But I tried to insert a link.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-100A...1?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101122596

 

[dcg9381]

From a little research it seems that I want something that is capable of 100A output. So if correct that's a start. I'm guessing that either a Deep Cycle or AGM battery is budget friendly and OK for use. But I have been looking and it seems that I can buy a Lifepo lithium for about the same price that puts out 100A.

Robot or human?

I love lithium these days, but it's not the same price as AGM or lead acid.
The Walmart Battery you referenced has a total capacity of 100Ah. It "advertises" peak output of 100A, but that's a LOT of output for a 100Ah LiFePo4. It's "possible" and feasible. It has cold protection at the BMS, so that's good.

Here's where I think this battery is ********... And it has to be ********, I compare it to a battery "brand" that I do buy of the same capacity. The walmart battery weighs ~40% less.

Someone is lying to you...

 

[tarmy]

I have a 9 year old Interstate that works great still. Just get a good quality battery that you keep charged up…should do just fine.

 

[RonRock]

I love lithium these days, but it's not the same price as AGM or lead acid.
The Walmart Battery you referenced has a total capacity of 100Ah. It "advertises" peak output of 100A, but that's a LOT of output for a 100Ah LiFePo4. It's "possible" and feasible. It has cold protection at the BMS, so that's good.

Here's where I think this battery is ********... And it has to be ********, I compare it to a battery "brand" that I do buy of the same capacity. The walmart battery weighs ~40% less.

Someone is lying to you...

Thanks for the reply. These are just quick and cheap examples that I found. I don't know anything about batteries.
But here is another that is even cheaper and supposedly weighs nearly the same as the one you show. Now don't get me wrong but this is what is shown on their page.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/RVPOZWER...3AFD3F3B9CD7C0E6A94959EE&conditionGroupCode=1

This one seems like a too good to be true, so IDK. I can't see spending more than 150-200Tops for a battery for no more use than I have for the trailer.

 

[RonRock]

I have a 9 year old Interstate that works great still. Just get a good quality battery that you keep charged up…should do just fine.

Lead Acid? Deep Cycle?

 

[dcg9381]

I don't know anything about batteries.

You know AGM, lead acid, and lithium. And you probably know that a battery of the same type and capacity probably shouldn't weigh a lot less than another battery with the same spec.

This one seems like a too good to be true, so IDK. I can't see spending more than 150-200Tops for a battery for no more use than I have for the trailer.

Weight is usually the give away... Usually.

So that battery is over on Amazon as well (cheaper on walmart), it gets decent reviews. But you are taking a risk on a product that is out of China and priced way below market. Sometimes they do that to introduce a brand. Sometimes it's straight fraud (like the prior battery).

Amazon.com

But it looks worth the risk to me. You need a solar charger that is setup for lithium chemistry. You can use it with an AGM/lead acid charger, but you'll only get about 80% out of it.

I'm having great luck with these, replacing WAAAY less batteries, but my go-to brand is Li-Time.

 

[The Cobbler]

I have a 9 year old Interstate that works great still.

I got 11 years out of my Interstate deep cycle that came with my then new my dump trailer .

 

[mike93lx]

Unrelated to the battery, but why only a 2500lb load cap with a 7k axle? Is it the tires?

 

[RonRock]

Unrelated to the battery, but why only a 2500lb load cap with a 7k axle? Is it the tires?

Sorry. I had a Brain Fart. I meant to say 2 1/2 tons. 5,000lbs load.

 

[andyvh1959]

Some good deals can be found on the internet for mobility scooter batteries. They are so common these days you can have one shipped to your home ready to use. I'd also consider using a Deltran or Shumacher battery tender to keep it charged and greatly extend its life.

 

[mike93lx]

Sorry. I had a Brain Fart. I meant to say 2 1/2 tons. 5,000lbs load.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

 

[tarmy]

Lead Acid? Deep Cycle?

8 years, not 9. Original to trailer. Just happen to have it out. I pull all my boat/trailer batteries at the end of summer and charge them when they go back in….which will be Friday this year!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I got 11 years out of my Interstate deep cycle that came with my then new my dump trailer .

I'd have to look but I think mine has a regular Interstate battery in the tongue box.

I've only plugged it in a few times since I bought it in 2019.

 

[dcg9381]

I got 11 years out of my Interstate deep cycle that came with my then new my dump trailer .

K. I want to know where I can buy THOSE specific batteries!
If I could get 11 years out of 'em, I'd not be doing lithium!

Some good deals can be found on the internet for mobility scooter batteries. They are so common these days you can have one shipped to your home ready to use. I'd also consider using a Deltran or Shumacher battery tender to keep it charged and greatly extend its life.

I see these cross over to UPS use. AGM, I might get 3-4 years out of one and darn sure they're not going to do 100A discharge.

Lithium needs a particular tender mode. You can get one that does AGM and lead-acid to. Same thing if you're charging using a panel.

 

[RonRock]

I should have asked to begin with. Is a 100A discharge a good rate for a dump trailer power unit? Mine has gravity down so only need the Amps going up. But I want to be sure and have enough to get the job done and not over use the battery.

 

[tarmy]

Look at that label on my battery above. Deep discharge type battery is what you want.

 

[dcg9381]

Look at that label on my battery above. Deep discharge type battery is what you want.

Lithium is deep discharge, usually with over-discharge (BMS) protection.

I should have asked to begin with. Is a 100A discharge a good rate for a dump trailer power unit? Mine has gravity down so only need the Amps going up. But I want to be sure and have enough to get the job done and not over use the battery.

Got a photo of the motor/pump? I've never owned one of these. Sounds hydraulic.

 

[Dig Doug]

I’ve had my dump trailer for 20 years

I use a regular auto - group 27 battery AutoZone/ Walmart they last 6-7 years on average

add a battery disconnect so it won’t drain while it sits !

This is the style I use

 

[RonRock]

Lithium is deep discharge, usually with over-discharge (BMS) protection.


Got a photo of the motor/pump? I've never owned one of these. Sounds hydraulic.

Lithium is deep discharge, usually with over-discharge (BMS) protection.


Got a photo of the motor/pump? I've never owned one of these. Sounds hydraulic.

I'll get a picture. Yes it is a 12v electric motor that drives a hydraulic pump. Typical setup for these dump trailers.

 

[ATC]

I’d just go with a lead acid group 31 battery (the size semi trucks and heavy equipment use) They are usually cheaper than your standard automotive-sized battery too.

 

[tarmy]

Here is a pic of mine…

 

[danfromsyr]

I love lithium these days, but it's not the same price as AGM or lead acid.
The Walmart Battery you referenced has a total capacity of 100Ah. It "advertises" peak output of 100A, but that's a LOT of output for a 100Ah LiFePo4. It's "possible" and feasible. It has cold protection at the BMS, so that's good.

Here's where I think this battery is ********... And it has to be ********, I compare it to a battery "brand" that I do buy of the same capacity. The walmart battery weighs ~40% less.

Someone is lying to you...

The Walmart one is a "mini" it is quite likely 100ah as advertised with reduced size & weight.

They stack different (pouch format) lifepo in the case.

I would just be sure that a lipo battery is capable of the thruput load.

 

[RonRock]

You know AGM, lead acid, and lithium. And you probably know that a battery of the same type and capacity probably shouldn't weigh a lot less than another battery with the same spec.

Weight is usually the give away... Usually.

So that battery is over on Amazon as well (cheaper on walmart), it gets decent reviews. But you are taking a risk on a product that is out of China and priced way below market. Sometimes they do that to introduce a brand. Sometimes it's straight fraud (like the prior battery).

Amazon.com

But it looks worth the risk to me. You need a solar charger that is setup for lithium chemistry. You can use it with an AGM/lead acid charger, but you'll only get about 80% out of it.

I'm having great luck with these, replacing WAAAY less batteries, but my go-to brand is Li-Time.

You mention great luck with these. Are you referring to the Rvpower that the Amazon link points too?

 

[RonRock]

The Walmart one is a "mini" it is quite likely 100ah as advertised with reduced size & weight.

They stack different (pouch format) lifepo in the case.

I would just be sure that a lipo battery is capable of the thruput load.

What is thruput load? And how do I figure it? My trailer electric/hydraulic don't have any label that I can see. I do have an amp-meter that I could use to find draw on the trailer dumping empty. Not sure that would help. From what I have found with the Google I need 100A output. But I can't find anything about needed watt hours? I'm guessing that watt hours is correct.

I'm leaning towards lithium at this point. Mostly as a learning experience. But I do want it to be a good one. If I'm wrong trying to go with a cheap lithium I can go with a deep cycle and be done. Lithium will require a new solar charger, and battery charger. For those I'd again go cheap. Not the cheapest POS I can find but close to bottom line. It will still add up in cost, but if lithium is worth it I'm OK with that.

There have been a couple here that suggest just doing a deep cycle. I'm not doubting their suggestions, just like to try something new. If it is at least as good as the old.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I just remembered to snap a picture... I had to wipe off the dust to see the label.

 

[txvwnut]

I have a blue top Optima with a solar charge controller for the winch on my car hauler. I've been running this setup for ten years with no issues.

 

[BillK]

I'm sure that this has been discussed here previously, but my search ability is lacking. So I'll ask for pointers in either suggestions or previous threads.

My single axle dump trailer needs a new battery

Any suggestions?

I just replaced the one in my little electric forklift at the shop. It gets used a couple of times a day and usually goes a couple of weeks before needing a charge. It was a Walmart deep cycle marine that was at least 10 years old. I bought another one just like it.

Keep in mind that any newer battery technology will probably need a different charger than what you have.

 

[dcg9381]

You mention great luck with these. Are you referring to the Rvpower that the Amazon link points too?

No, I don't know those. LiTime brand is what I've been using. I've had good luck with the battery chemistry. I did say that RVpower got (particular battery) looked OK per reviews on Amazon. I'd go to youtube, someone will test it and take it apart...

 

[theoldwizard1]

The only TRUE "deep cycle" lead acid batteries that are readily available are golf cart batteries (size GC2) and are 6V. Marine/RV batteries (and any battery that advertises Cold Cranking Amps (CCA) or Marine Cranking Amps (MCA) ) is a compromise compared to a golf cart lead acid batteries.

To FULLY CHARGE a Lithium (LiFePO4) battery requires a special charger. Lithium batteries will be damaged if charged when the ambient temperature is below freezing.

 

[dscheidt]

To FULLY CHARGE a Lithium (LiFePO4) battery requires a special charger. Lithium batteries will be damaged if charged when the ambient temperature is below freezing.

That depends on the battery. There are a lot of LiFepo batteries designed for drop in replacement of lead acid batteries. They have built in BMS to convert lead acid charging voltage to a whatever it is that they need. Such batteries are available for a lot of applications, from deep cycle use (popular with the rv crowd), emergency lighting, and automotive starting (aimed at the rarely used car, mostly), and probably everything else.

Can’t comment about charging below freezing.

 

[Sumboodie]

I’d just go with a lead acid group 31 battery (the size semi trucks and heavy equipment use) They are usually cheaper than your standard automotive-sized battery too.

What I was going to suggest as well. Or group 27 is a bit smaller.

Have one in my skid steer that's from 2012. The 4Ds in my track loader are 2010.

I have a scissor lift that needs batteries. I plan to just put 3 group 31s... at around $300 vs near $1000 for 6 GC2 6v deep cycle.

 

[kbeefy]

Lithium batteries will be damaged if charged when the ambient temperature is below freezing.

OP linked battery does advertise low temp charging cutoff. Does it work? I can't tell.

 

[dcg9381]

OP linked battery does advertise low temp charging cutoff. Does it work? I can't tell.

They have BMS (Battery management Systems) if they have that. Basically a circuit board that prevents events such as over-discharge, over-current, and prevents charge at or below freezing and keeps cells balanced. You can't charge these below freezing.

 

[RonRock]

Any thoughts on this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Dumfume-LiFe...-Off-Grid/dp/B0DQ1573P3/?tag=atomicindus08-20

There's a young guy on Youtube "DIY Solar" that seems pretty knowledgeable about LiFePo4 batteries. He does a lot of reviews and seems to run a solar forum. Not that any of that makes him an expert, but still light years ahead of me. His website has this one suggested as a decent cheap lithium.

I'm still cautious about the Lithium output. I have also read that a dump trailer will use 300 or more amps to raise a loaded box.

I had also read the point that theoldwizard1 made about deep cycle not being "true" deep cycle batteries. Seems I read that that limits their actual "depth" ability.

 

[mike93lx]

Any thoughts on this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Dumfume-LiFe...-Off-Grid/dp/B0DQ1573P3/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Without knowing who actually makes the cells, I'd imagine it's hard to have much feedback on these alphabet soup Chinese companies.

 

[gimpyrobb]

We have an Interstate battery company near me. I go to their store and get their reconditioned batterys for a reduced price. I would see if there is one near you. I hook up a battery maintaining charger once in a while. My batts usually last over 10yrs. A disconnect is good to have on the trailer, so is the solargizer.

Pardon Our Interruption...

The "deep cycle" battery is what you want for your trailer.

 

[theoldwizard1]

They have built in BMS to convert lead acid charging voltage to a whatever it is that they need.

Please name a couple !

Every BMS I have seen will NOT raise the incoming voltage up to the 14.6V required to get a FULL CHARGE ! To do this you need a DC-DC charger.

 

[RonRock]

Well we can put this one to rest. I ended up with a Interstate 27DC Marine/RV. Not my first choice but at Costco it was cheap $89.99. It will work with my existing Solar charger for maintenance and my onboard battery tender for the times that I need to plug in for faster charge. Maybe next time I'll be better informed on lithium. Hopefully this one lasts at least a couple years.

Thanks for the good discussion. Always helpful.

Cheers,
Ron

Oh yeah, the Interstate Battery website *****! I could not find anything on it but a local dealer. No way to find out what is available, specs, nothing. That was disappointing.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Mine is a 24DC and like 7 years old.no issues so far.