E-tek Restorations: PROJECT THREAD

[e-tek]

Believe me Kevin I take those things into consideration right from the start. But since the door that was on there was fitting fine - and those hinges had not been modified - I knew it had to be the door or hinges we got. Also, moving the fender would be the LAST thing you want to do at the start, or even now. The front end lined up "OK" when I got it, plus you'll recall I cross-measured and it was within spec.
I can't recall if I explained what happened when I called the supplier, but they had found out that the manufacturer DID have issues with that batch of hinges - which was obvious to them once I sent them the photo's showing the extra material on the one side!! When I took some material off, it got much better, but instead of leaving it like this, I called to complain.
Anyways, we'll see how different the 'new' hinges are when they come.

 

[e-tek]

Today was paint day - and another way to use your 4-post lift: as a quick set-up paint booth!

Inner window garnish moldings for 40 Ford:

240Z front suspension/bake parts:

Rebuild should be fun with ALL new parts (and urethane bushings!):

 

[N0tt0N]

Wow, what a great idea! a paint booth from a lift. Genius...

 

[ADSR]

that paint booth is awesome, bro.

 

[e-tek]

that paint booth is awesome, bro.

HaHa - not exactly Edison material!!

 

[Kevin54]

As clean as the fender arch looks in that pic, you may want to cut out a large patch panel from it and hang onto it. You never know when you may need another Camaro patch panel for that fender area or someone else working on a Camaro might

 

[e-tek]

As clean as the fender arch looks in that pic, you may want to cut out a large patch panel from it and hang onto it. You never know when you may need another Camaro patch panel for that fender area or someone else working on a Camaro might

Good idea! I just wish I had room to save stuff like that....

 

[e-tek]

Just more of the same today - put another few coats on the window moldings and started rebuilding the Z parts:

Rack cleaned up well for being 45 years old!

Shiny new boots!

 

[racer8432955]

Thanks guys - lots of work re-skinning a car for sure! As for the plug-stick, I had considered putting a box on my welding cart (a la Roberts), but the cords are generally so short I want to be able to plug them in right next to my work area - so that seemed like a good alternative.

Robert - good questions on the rust paints and welding. As you are likely aware, POR and RB are "Single Stage Humidity-Cured Epoxy" coatings, making them extremely easy to apply (no mixing) and - of course - they are formulated and tested to be superior to automotive primers in how they de-humidify, convert and encapsulate rust.

I've spent a LOT of time and effort to find and use the correct, best-made and highest quality coatings in the correct applications and 'basic' epoxy primers just can't compare as a rust inhibitive coating like POR15 or RustBullet, so I'm just not comfortable spraying an epoxy primer over rust, or in areas prone to rust - and then hoping for the best. Now, "some" epoxy primers are rust-specific (Sher-Wills Epolon II Rust Inhibitive Epoxy Primer), but usually they are not.

As for welding around these coatings, we all know welding has to be done on clean metal and any contaminants, from rust to e-coatings, to epoxy primers and paints have to be removed from the welding surface, but of course anytime you weld you'll burn any primers or paints nearby as well, and yes - the rust paints do put off quite a bit of noxious smoke! Usually whatever precautions I've taken to avoid the welding fumes also suffices for the burnt primer or paints nearby. I generally wear a welding mask when welding more than a few spots and also have an exhaust fan running to remove the welding fumes and smoke from the shop.

After the welding has cooled I just brush on a second application of the rust paint. With POR15 you can just touch up the spots that were welded/burned through, but RustBullet requires a second complete coat, so I did that after I finished the welding in the area.

As for the Cougar - it's back in bodyshop purgatory....I feel bad for the owner, as I suggested the shop, but he says he's not in a rush and at least we know this particular shop will give him a show-quality paint job when they finally get it done. However, it's just another reminder why I do what I do, why there is always work for people like us and why I've found other places to get paint work done since...

E-tek,
First off thank you for sharing your amazing work! Your talents are absolutely incredible!
I, being a novice, still do not fully understand the above regarding rust prevention. Say when you are welding together the seams of two panels. Do you, prior to welding, coat each (inner) surface with POR or Rust Bullet, and then (plug) weld through it? If so doesn't that contaminate the weld as MPC said? If coating after welding won't all the bare metal, that is touching (surface to surface), begin rust eventually? Could a weld thur primer be used in this situation? If so, do you have any questions on a quality weld thru primer?

Sorry for the 40 questions, I greatly admire your work and feel your opinions are the correct way.

Thank You,
JE

 

[e-tek]

E-tek,
First off thank you for sharing your amazing work! Your talents are absolutely incredible!
I, being a novice, still do not fully understand the above regarding rust prevention. Say when you are welding together the seams of two panels. Do you, prior to welding, coat each (inner) surface with POR or Rust Bullet, and then (plug) weld through it? If so doesn't that contaminate the weld as MPC said? If coating after welding won't all the bare metal, that is touching (surface to surface), begin rust eventually? Could a weld thur primer be used in this situation? If so, do you have any questions on a quality weld thru primer?

Sorry for the 40 questions, I greatly admire your work and feel your opinions are the correct way.

Thank You,
JE

To clarify my process, what I do is coat EACH surface with POR15 or Rust Bullet (unless it has a solid E-coat already on it), then REMOVING it just from the areas to be welded (with a flattened drill, small grinding disc, or whatever), then scuffing and re-coating any areas that had the coating removed due to welding or grinding. IMO, this method has shown itself to be the best way to: (1) SEAL any prior corrosion on seams and panels to be welded,to and (2) protect against any future corrosion.

I used to use weld-through primers, both Zinc and Copper, first on their own, then on areas I'd removed rust coatings for welding, but after much trial and research, found these - or any - coatings just don't hold up to the heat of welding. Sure, you can "weld-through" these weld-through coatings, but that doesn't mean much in the end. They burn off almost completely, conferring no additional protection.

Hope that helps clear it up!

 

[e-tek]

Got quite a bit done today on the drivers side quarter and inner fender of the Camaro... unfortunately, my camera crapped out and I lost a bunch of photo's...but you can just go back a few pages and turn your screen 180 degrees...

Suffice to say, the drivers side is now ready for a couple of small patch-repairs, then new panel attachment. I'll re-take some photo's tomorrow.

Also got some final detailing on the 240Z front-end parts so I could start their re-assembly. I'd love to have this think on wheels soon!

 

[HOTFR8]

That is a great mock up temporary paint booth using the hoist.

 

[e-tek]

Earlier we where talking about how much rust paint I remove for welding. In this case, the new panel has E-coat and after drilling holes for plug welds, I grind the sharp bits off, as well as a bit of the surrounding to ensure the weld has sufficient clean metal to adhere to:

Inners prepped and ready for panel installation:

Before the day was over, I did a quick front end mock up with the 240 parts:

 

[racer8432955]

To clarify my process, what I do is coat EACH surface with POR15 or Rust Bullet (unless it has a solid E-coat already on it), then REMOVING it just from the areas to be welded (with a flattened drill, small grinding disc, or whatever), then scuffing and re-coating any areas that had the coating removed due to welding or grinding. IMO, this method has shown itself to be the best way to: (1) SEAL any prior corrosion on seams and panels to be welded,to and (2) protect against any future corrosion.

I used to use weld-through primers, both Zinc and Copper, first on their own, then on areas I'd removed rust coatings for welding, but after much trial and research, found these - or any - coatings just don't hold up to the heat of welding. Sure, you can "weld-through" these weld-through coatings, but that doesn't mean much in the end. They burn off almost completely, conferring no additional protection.
Hope that helps clear it up!

That helps.
Thank you!

 

[e-tek]

Time to pop the top on this tin can!

Chunk of bondo that was stuffed into a rust hole:

Check out the rust build up:

Underside of roof panel:

Support structure will need some repair as well:

Cleaned up the edges for welding:

The rest will get coated with RustBullet (after being treated with MetalReady) -

 

[ADSR]

damn! You don't play around!

 

[DynoDave]

Wow...I would think the owner would be very HAPPY with the decision to cut the roof off after seeing all that.

 

[MP&C]

All caused from condensation within the roof running down to the roof structure.

Ed, that can of worms looks all too familiar. You'll be able to give the Camaro a much better life ahead now that the exploratory surgery has shown what lurks beneath..

 

[NASTYZEN]

If you can get all these after market parts... Couldn't you buy an entire car in pieces and save yourself a whole lotta trouble by going from scratch? Just saying.

 

[sselander]

Looks like Ed is having fun as is with the Camaro ..
Looks like a typical old car from the North

This is for the repro 1969 Dynacom Camaro body -
"MSRP is $13,500 for Part # CA 69CP with doors and deck lid.
Plus a Crating and Handling Charge of $495.00. All Bodies are shipped FOB Camarillo, California freight prepaid, or you could make your own freight arrangements."
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/gm_models2.html

 

[e-tek]

If you can get all these after market parts... Couldn't you buy an entire car in pieces and save yourself a whole lotta trouble by going from scratch? Just saying.

A lot of people think that when they see this kind of work - but there's a LOT more to a car than the outer skin panes. The cowl, floor and inner structures are the lions share of the car and the pieces I'm replacing are fairly straightforward - when you've done it a few times.

Looks like Ed is having fun as is with the Camaro ..
Looks like a typical old car from the North

This is for the repro 1969 Dynacom Camaro body -
"MSRP is $13,500 for Part # CA 69CP with doors and deck lid.
Plus a Crating and Handling Charge of $495.00. All Bodies are shipped FOB Camarillo, California freight prepaid, or you could make your own freight arrangements."
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/gm_models2.html

Exactly - so there's $15,000 (plus 10% exchange), plus shipping to SK, taxes and imports, then the body has to have everything transferred over - which alone is MUCH more than doing what I'm doing. Of course the new bodies come with their own VIN's, so it would be like buying a different car.

I've priced out this route and it'd end up about $80K -$100K (depending on a lot of things) to trim one out and get it drivable, vs about $25K for what I'm doing. Right now I'm at about $3K in labour.

 

[e-tek]

Had to buy a new gallon of MetalPrep (Phosphoric Acid soln) yesterday for the Camaro sub structure and MAN has the price ever gone up! Used to be under $40/gal, now it's $65! Oh well, certainly worth the extra step to truly neutralize any old/hidden or surface rust:

The white phosphate coating already on there was from the first application. I did 3 in total:

Quarter panel sits patiently while I await the new roof panel and hinges for the drivers door.

While I'm waiting on that stuff, I'll be able to get a move on the 240!

Check out the difference between the old and new Urethane bushings:

 

[N0tt0N]

Missing my old Z! Keep it up!

 

[signcrafter]

Amazing work Etek!

Can you get some photos of how you fit up the new roof to the car and where you decided to cut the old roof out. Then welding it in. I'm sure you will but thought I would ask. Curious how you decide where to cut the old out and how you weld the new in. Thanks.

 

[Chateau Slate 66]

It's sad that I even feel like I need to say this, but it's refreshing to see someone that takes the time and has the talent to do things the RIGHT way.

Very well done.

 

[e-tek]

Thanks 'Slate', I try to get 'em right, which generally takes 2 years for a "frame-off".

 

[e-tek]

Amazing work Etek!

Can you get some photos of how you fit up the new roof to the car and where you decided to cut the old roof out. Then welding it in. I'm sure you will but thought I would ask. Curious how you decide where to cut the old out and how you weld the new in. Thanks.

Will do!
As for cutting the major panel out, I first cut around from the joints I needed to separate, taking care not to slice into any bits below. Once the major panel is off, it's easier to separate where the the panels were joined by locating and drilling out all the spot welds, then separating the bits from either side with the air chisel. A factory assembly manual - and some of the better parts catalogues - help as well.

 

[e-tek]

Daily driver Dodge blew a PS hose today:

And while I was under there, I thought I'd update y'all on the Ultimate Winter RustBullet vs POR15 Rust Paint test I started nearly 6 months ago:

At this point, both paints look to be holding up to the extreme conditions very well. Even after a wipe, you can see the road salt residue:

After that, I did some fitment on the Camaro's left quarter:

Then bolted on the deck lid for an initial gap check -

They're fairly even - and are within a hair of what is called for in the FSM - but compared to modern cars, they look wide enough to throw a cat through!!

Also got some more bits readied to put the 240Z front end together. Trying to get as much as I can done while waiting on the Camaro parts and before the 40Ford returns for some finalizing!

 

[pb57]

Ed, very nice work you do. I have a question on a vehicle I am restoring. There is rust in the seams of my floor pans where the two layers overlap and are spot welded. the floors are good and the rust is light but I am sure there is some in between the sandwiched seams. I can sandblast them and they look great but short of taking apart each seam (overkill I believe) is there anything I can do to stop this. thanks Paul

 

[e-tek]

Ed, very nice work you do. I have a question on a vehicle I am restoring. There is rust in the seams of my floor pans where the two layers overlap and are spot welded. the floors are good and the rust is light but I am sure there is some in between the sandwiched seams. I can sandblast them and they look great but short of taking apart each seam (overkill I believe) is there anything I can do to stop this. thanks Paul

Paul, I think the best you can do there is soak them down in a Phosphoric Acid solution. It'll get into all those nooks and crannies and convert any rust that's started, plus treat anything else. I use MetalPrep from POR15, but it comes as Ospho, Naval Jelly, Rust Mort and more. For that application I'd use a liquid as opposed to a jelly though. Once you've put on several applications, you can wipe it down with thinner or acetone, then paint it with a rust paint like POR15 or RustBullet. Hope that helps!

 

[pb57]

Thank you Ed. Nice to have someone here so talented and willing to share their experience. Paul

 

[e-tek]

After taking care of my sick kids the first few days of the week, I caught up over the last couple days!

Mrs E's Mini Cooper blew it's thermostat seal....hard as HELL to get at - like everything on these cars...

Then I got the struts hooked up on the 240Z:

And the 40Ford is back for some sorting out before upholstery:

The hood will get new hinges and some alignment work:

Something is binding in the trans and it needs to come out, but this plate is preventing that. It'll have to cut it out and then change it up a bit. Also the TV cable needs some tweaking...

And - most unfortunately the heavy filler used by the shop that did the original metalwork is coming back to haunt us.....Its hard to see in the photo, but check out what happened when the door got slammed and the window motor hit it from the inside. I'll have to secure the motors somehow and add some protective padding....before repairing - and repainting - it.

We'll get this thing ready fo-sho by summer!

 

[raskal]

Mrs E's Mini Cooper blew it's thermostat seal....hard as HELL to get at - like everything on these cars...

I'm doing the same fix on a '03 Beetle. Did you buy the Mini gasket or use a RTV product? The Beetle uses a simple rubber ring that doesn't look perished in any way, but still leaks

 

[e-tek]

I'm doing the same fix on a '03 Beetle. Did you buy the Mini gasket or use a RTV product? The Beetle uses a simple rubber ring that doesn't look perished in any way, but still leaks

Same - looks ok, but leaks! I'll buy the seal and t-stat, which come as one. I read that these housings crack quite often, but this one looks ok. Not an app where RTV would suffice.

 

[e-tek]

Today's post is brought to you by RUST BULLET

First up was the Camaro's roof sub-structure:

After the phosphoric Acid did it's work, the Rust Bullet will seal it permanently.

Then I re-did the 240Z wheel wells, which also covered up the blue overspray:

After that work, I continued detailing all the small parts for the eventual suspension re-installation:

Lastly, I dragged all the rear suspension parts out of the storage shed and brought them into the shop. Having been in an unheated shed all winter the metal was minus 30C - which went through my shop gloves like shards of ice piercing the skin. Ouch!

 

[Jehannum]

Check out the difference between the old and new Urethane bushings:

Just a quick note, when I did the suspension on my 240Z, I used a new rubber bushing on one side of the junction (IIRC, the I used the rubber bush on the engine compartment side). Going full urethane on the tension rods is a surefire way to break the tension rod at an "inconvenient" moment.

 

[e-tek]

Just a quick note, when I did the suspension on my 240Z, I used a new rubber bushing on one side of the junction (IIRC, the I used the rubber bush on the engine compartment side). Going full urethane on the tension rods is a surefire way to break the tension rod at an "inconvenient" moment.

That sounds like a smart plan. Thanks!

 

[e-tek]

Made the pieces needed to repair the worst part of the Camaro's roof substructure:

Drill and chisel, drill and chisel

Bottom piece:

Top piece:

Nearly ready to weld:

I was going to buy a transmission jack to pull the trans from the 40Ford, but I kept thinking how it would get used once, then be in the way forever! As well, I have this ram that was given to me by a friend and I wanted to use it in another application, so I thought out a way to make up my own trans jack, I cut the pieces for it today and I'll show the welding and assembly of it tomorrow:

I'm off these next few weeks for my bi-annual OLYMPIC so-journe. So while I'll be in the shop most of the time, my attention will be somewhat split between the two!

 

[HOTFR8]

I have seen nothing of the games. Far to busy trying keep up with the forum as well as deal with smoke here and keeping up with the fires are doing as well as family.

You know how it is Ed. Oh keep up the good work.

 

[nonhog]

And the 40Ford is back for some sorting out before upholstery:

Dang!