E-Torx Quandry

[shoggoth80]

So, I find myself in a slight pickle. I'm going to be doing a brake job for a friend in the near future... And Google tells me the caliper bracket bolts are held on with a TTY E20 bolt. The replacements that I can find are normal hex heads... But that doesn't mean the OEM bolts aren't E Torx. Verifying later today.

If I need to get more e Torx, there's options. I have some, but not to E20.
There's several Amazon specials that run up to E24 which I have seen often enough at work holding shocks on. And I've seen E20s on motor mounts at work too. Are there any Amazon alphabet soup brands that are actually trustworthy? Eyeballing the Amartisan impact rated set. Very affordable, good range of sizes, and could be gunned if needed. It's not lasting through the job I'm worried about as much as will it survive for future jobs?

There's a Neiko chrome set for about $20 that's got pretty good reviews. I've also bought my father a Neiko master internal Torx set for Christmas several years ago that still serves him well. There's also an Amazon Basics set that doesn't look half bad. But these are online pictures, and how many reviews are honest?

Icon. The deep set they sell looks very attractive. It's more than double the price of the cheap Amazon set. Chrome. Would offer access for recessed fasteners down the line should I run into tight access spots. I don't NEED to use an impact, it's just often convenient. Lol

Blue Point. The E20 is like $10. Provided our dealer has one on the truck, or could get in in a week time. While it would be just the size I need, and nothing more, it would expand on what I already have without doubling up. Is a brand I trust (as is Icon). The Snap On one is about 3x the price, but have no issues beyond that. It's a single job (right now) that I'm not charging a friend for. The Snap On impact is close to the same as the chrome socket.

For about the same price as BP, I could grab any other parts store import brand... And while I'm generally not a tool snob... If I can get BP at the same price, I have no incentive to when parts are at least 8 days out.

Do I opt for just what is needed (and trusted) for less? Spend marginally more on a gamble for more sizes from an unknown-to-me brand for the ability to possibly do more later? Spend double for a set from a known (and trusted) brand?

Just kind of thinking out loud.

 

[Wamsutta]

What drive size do you think you'll want and chrome or impact?

 

[PCustoms]

Just kind of thinking out loud.

1. Is she hot?
2. What vehicle uses tty on caliper brackets?

 

[lynx40]

Hi depending on how often you will use them could look at the LEXIVON range on Amazon

 

[PCustoms]

Jokes aside I would think twice about ordering this today if I thought I needed it

https://a.co/d/3bE7vIl

 

[shoggoth80]

1. I keep my thoughts to myself on that one.
2. Ones that I know of that use TTY/single use on brake components: Jeep Renegade, Mercedes Metris (caliper brackets), Ford Transit E-250 (rotor/hub bolts).

What drive size do you think you'll want and chrome or impact?

From cursory research, initial torque is like 122ft lbs, and then I think 90°. Something close to that if not that. I'll find more precise data before I get into it. Probably gonna go 1/2" drive on the E20 and up. I've got decent breaker, ratchet, ok torque wrench in the right range in 1/2. Almost every time I rip caliper brackets off anything, I'm pulling out the 1/2 drive stuff.

Chrome vs impact... I actually don't have a preference here. I am perfectly comfortable putting an impact on a ratchet or breaker bar Being able to use the gun is convenient, but not always necessary. I've impacted chrome in my time... But I don't like it, and would rather not on tools that I throw my own money down on. My E4-16 are impact rated though.

 

[shoggoth80]

Jokes aside I would think twice about ordering this today if I thought I needed it

https://a.co/d/3bE7vIl

Tekton has done well by me in the work world. I've had coworkers bust some of the stuff, but most of it holds up, and the customer service has always been top notch for sure.

 

[shoggoth80]

Hi depending on how often you will use them could look at the LEXIVON range on Amazon

I've got Lexivon triple squares from when I had a newer VW. They've not done me dirty.

 

[PCustoms]

Tekton has done well by me in the work world. I've had coworkers bust some of the stuff, but most of it holds up, and the customer service has always been top notch for sure.

I'm a home gamer, but need some larger sizes when I have to work on the tractor. If I have time, all I've been ordering is tekton.

Somehow did not have (or misplaced?) my shallow 1/2 drive 21mm when I did brakes a few weeks ago. Had a new one in my box 3 days later.

Now I've got to go back and check they weren't tty...

 

[shoggoth80]

So, given that I've got E4-16 in impact, I snagged a Tekton E20 in 1/2 drive. Then the drive sizes scale reasonably well with the fastener size. Impact is fine by me, and I've got no beef with Tekton at all. Gets the size I need for marginal expense, and still allows to build up sizes via singles later. Been dealing with brain lag from a migraine, and looked right past Tekton... When I'm work they're one of the first companies I look at

 

[DarryT]

Pardon Our Interruption...

This Blackhawk set is super solid for $30. I an very happy with my purchase.

The seller also has the matching torx set for $35.

Pardon Our Interruption...

US made? Maybe.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I smell the usual mentally manufactured torque-to-yield spec. being applied to parts that are not.

Post the vehicle and the bolts in question.

 

[Samuel D]

Ones that I know of that use TTY/single use on brake components: Jeep Renegade, Mercedes Metris (caliper brackets), Ford Transit E-250 (rotor/hub bolts).

I just did a 2019 BMW 1 Series F20 that needed 30 Nm + 90° on the calliper mounting bracket bolts.

From cursory research, initial torque is like 122ft lbs, and then I think 90°. Something close to that if not that.

Sounds wild. Are these M16 bolts?

I smell the usual mentally manufactured torque-to-yield spec. being applied to parts that are not.

Post the vehicle and the bolts in question.

What do you mean by “mentally manufactured”?

 

[PCustoms]

What do you mean by “mentally manufactured”?

Made up.

TTY isn't the same as torque+ angle

 

[nicks78camaro]

Astro 78313
Low profile E-Torx impact sockets in 1/4" drive E4-E8 and 3/8" drive E10-E24
All sockets feature an outside hex for extreme low-profile access from the side with a wrench
Forged CRO-MO, lifetime warranty

 

[shoggoth80]

Don't know the exact particulars. Earlier in the thread I mentioned it was initial research. Quick look. Lol. Initial findings state single use bracket bolts. I also stated vehicles that I know from work with examples of single use hardware. So there's vehicles out there with such, beyond head bolts. Do I agree with it? Not really. Am I gonna risk my friend's safety for stubbornness? No.

I've seen a bracket bolt on a Mercedes break from being reused. Felt bad for the guy who did the work. Nobody got hurt thankfully.

 

[PCustoms]

Don't know the exact particulars. Earlier in the thread I mentioned it was initial research. Quick look. Lol. Initial findings state single use bracket bolts. I also stated vehicles that I know from work with examples of single use hardware. So there's vehicles out there with such, beyond head bolts. Do I agree with it? Not really. Am I gonna risk my friend's safety for stubbornness? No.

I've seen a bracket bolt on a Mercedes break from being reused. Felt bad for the guy who did the work. Nobody got hurt thankfully.

It's been asked twice now, any reason you're so secretive about the specific vehicle?

 

[shoggoth80]

Dude. Several posts up in #6. Jeep Renegade. Though to be fair, I don't think I specified that was the particular one I get to dig into.

This thread was more about E Torx options vs the vehicle, so apologies if letting that detail fall to the wayside caused confusion.

 

[PCustoms]

Dude. Several posts up in #6. Jeep Renegade. Though to be fair, I don't think I specified that was the particular one I get to dig into.

Well you named 3:

2. Ones that I know of that use TTY/single use on brake components: Jeep Renegade, Mercedes Metris (caliper brackets), Ford Transit E-250 (rotor/hub bolts).

Was not clear at all but I did assume Jeep

A quick Google and there seemed to be some suggestions that is was TTY, but some contradictory info as well. I stopped looking as I don't drive one

 

[shoggoth80]

Made up.

TTY isn't the same as torque+ angle

You're right. I applied the wrong terminology there. Initial reading says the bolts are single use, which would lead me to believe that is a TTY thing? The bolts on the Transit 250 and Metris vans at work are single use, and guys use the same phrasing there too.

If torque+angle is reusable, and the info I found specified a torque spec + X°... But yet says they're single use... Is there something missing in the data? Does that extra angle stretch the fastener? Is the data found incorrect? It was pulled from a Jeep forum, so grain of salt and all that.

I'll log into Alldata before work sometime this week, and see what's there.

 

[cgrutt]

I bought the OTC master set a few years ago. Really impressed with the quality of the bits I even default to them now over some tool truck bit sets. Believe the e-torx run from e4 to e24. Highly recommended.

 

[PCustoms]

I'll log into Alldata before work sometime this week, and see what's there.

That will be key.

I had the complete FSM for my previous vehicle, haven't looked for one for this truck as I hadn't really done any service until a few weeks ago.

Kind of questioning the caliper bolts, one was a ***** to get out, almost like it was stretched

 

[shoggoth80]

A quick Google and there seemed to be some suggestions that is was TTY, but some contradictory info as well. I stopped looking as I don't drive one

I get it. The only reason I care is because I agreed to help a friend out in a semi tough spot. If I wasn't going to do this job, it wouldn't even cross my mind.

 

[ChevyEFI]

You're right. I applied the wrong terminology there. Initial reading says the bolts are single use, which would lead me to believe that is a TTY thing? The bolts on the Transit 250 and Metris vans at work are single use, and guys use the same phrasing there too.

If torque+angle is reusable, and the info I found specified a torque spec + X°... But yet says they're single use...

Parts can be replaced on service for thread sealant, thread locker, or other reasons. In this case, it's extremely likely bolt inspection and new locking compound would be 100% suitable.

Don't use the safety excuse. Know why the replacement is warranted.

There is no bolt shank to "yield" on these because there is no section equal or smaller to thread minor diameter.

Aftermarket hex head replacement is probably easiest sourced and most economical. It's a Fiat family five-door. You service it and send it.

 

[Wamsutta]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned VIM or Koken yet. Usually by now the VIM and Koken people have completely taken over the thread.

 

[AJHD]

Plenty of options. These are just a few of them.

I have the Snap On set. I prefer to not use cheap bit sockets when available.

Snap-on Store

shop.snapon.com

Tekton and Capri are also solid options.

Hand Drive External Star Sockets | TEKTON

Shop hand drive external star (E-Star) sockets that feature an internal 6-lobe geometry designed for a high-torque fit that resists slipping.

www.tekton.com

External Star Socket Set, 13-Piece, Socket Rail

The Capri Tools external star sockets are made for the most demanding professionals. Set includes 13 external star sockets: drive size 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2".

capritools.com

 

[seber]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned VIM or Koken yet. Usually by now the VIM and Koken people have completely taken over the thread.

I love Koken sockets but trying to get through their catalog for a single socket is way beyond my level of patience. You could spend all day trying to find a 20mm etorx in that wasteland.

 

[Hakeem]

I’ve known people in industry who have had great results with Neiko stuff. Personally, I wouldn’t overthink it. Get whatever cheap socket set is convenient and call it a day. I’ve had success with the Pittsburgh set and the Oreilly Auto Parts set.

 

[shoggoth80]

I’ve known people in industry who have had great results with Neiko stuff. Personally, I wouldn’t overthink it. Get whatever cheap socket set is convenient and call it a day. I’ve had success with the Pittsburgh set and the Oreilly Auto Parts set.

I'll agree that I've over thought the issue The issue with the Pittsburgh set is that it only goes to E16, as does the sets I could find on O'Reilly's. Lol. My E4-16 is Pittsburgh.

 

[KnurledNut]

Be aware that some import brands have a shallow countersink which may not fully engage the fastener.
Notice the bell clearance of my personal MAC branded VIM, a Hazet brake caliper socket, Snap-on, and a cheap import:

 

[Wamsutta]

Be aware that some import brands have a shallow countersink which may not fully engage the fastener.
Notice the bell clearance of my personal MAC branded VIM, a Hazet brake caliper socket, Snap-on, and a cheap import:

Very interesting. I did not know that about the countersink angle. The Hazet looks badass in that regard.

 

[shoggoth80]

I think Icon altered their countersink due to user feedback. Nobody at work has voiced issues with Tekton's build. I've seen a Carlyle walk off an E20 motor mount bolt personally.

 

[Pinne]

I just bought a car that has a lot of E-Torx, so I've been adding these to my tool box.

I bought the Icon E-Torx set as it was readily available locally. They are completely fine but they are deeps, so probably not ideal as your only set.

I'd go for the Capri standard depth if you wanted an affordable set based on my other Capri sockets (which are very nice for the money). Otherwise, the Snap-on ones seem like the outright best based on what I can gather from friends who work on a lot of cars with this hardware - prices aren't too awful secondhand.

Astro 78313 was posted earlier and will be my next purchase. I think they'd likely be my only purchase if I weren't going to use E-Torx much. Impact, pass through, shallow for lots of clearance...pretty versatile set. My other Astro tools are all very nice.

 

[BWWgarage]

I was just researching brake job for our x7 … Don’t the new brakes/pads come with new bolts?

I grabbed the lexivon set as Etorx was needed for 2nd battery replacement on my JL wrangler. It worked for that low torque need.

If you have the time, I’d drop the $6 with free shipping from HD for a TEKTON E20.

 

[CGarage]

I have the USAG E-Torx set and I like them.
Purchased from UltimateGarage.

The Renegade I think is based on a Fiat platform. Aren’t Jeeps now made in Italy?

I have encountered Italian industrial hardware and it seems to prefer Italian tools for optimum fit.

 

[shoggoth80]

I have the USAG E-Torx set and I like them.
Purchased from UltimateGarage.

The Renegade I think is based on a Fiat platform. Aren’t Jeeps now made in Italy?

I have encountered Italian industrial hardware and it seems to prefer Italian tools for optimum fit.

Dollars to dimes... Screams Fiat to me.
The Promasters at work scream Fiat too.

 

[dscheidt]

Parts can be replaced on service for thread sealant, thread locker, or other reasons. In this case, it's extremely likely bolt inspection and new locking compound would be 100% suitable.

Don't use the safety excuse. Know why the replacement is warranted.

There is no bolt shank to "yield" on these because there is no section equal or smaller to thread minor diameter.

Aftermarket hex head replacement is probably easiest sourced and most economical. It's a Fiat family five-door. You service it and send it.

The entire section of the bolt that's under tension -- everything from the first thread engaged with the nut or tapped hole to the head o the bolt -- stretches when a bolt is tightened (that's the whole way bolts work, after all.). No reduced shank is required for a bolt to plastically stretch if sufficient torque is applied. If the spec on the these bolts is 122 lb*ft + 90 degrees, they're absolutely being torqued close to yield. 122 ft lb is above the usual torque spec for 8.8 m14 bolts, and getting close for 10.9. Another 90 degrees is going to make them shockingly tight.

 

[nicks78camaro]

Ugga dugga to German torque spec - Gutentight

 

[terrific]

Lisle 26870 can be shipped to O'Reilly.

 

[seber]

The entire section of the bolt that's under tension -- everything from the first thread engaged with the nut or tapped hole to the head o the bolt -- stretches when a bolt is tightened (that's the whole way bolts work, after all.). No reduced shank is required for a bolt to plastically stretch if sufficient torque is applied. If the spec on the these bolts is 122 lb*ft + 90 degrees, they're absolutely being torqued close to yield. 122 ft lb is above the usual torque spec for 8.8 m14 bolts, and getting close for 10.9. Another 90 degrees is going to make them shockingly tight.

Only the first three to five threads are under tension. Keep torquing and those first threads will permanently distort. The unthreaded portion gives a section that can stretch elastically. This gives the bolt relief for temperature changes.